Driven by Data: The Podcast

In this week's Data Debrief, Catherine Dowden-King & Kyle Winterbottom have a special Halloween episode! They discuss the tricks of the market, the horror stories that persist and the zombie challenges that won't seem to stay gone!

In Episode 30 of Season 7 of Driven by Data: The Podcast, Catherine Dowden-King is joined by Di Mayze, Chief Data and AI Officer at Marks & Spencer, where they discuss why the CDO role has to prove its value, why clean data foundations still come before AI, and how to build a data culture people want to be part of.As featured in Driven by Data Magazine 2026.As the first person in post at M&S, and previously the first global head of data and AI at WPP, Di shares what she learned at dunnhumby, Boots and WPP, why curiosity matters more than jargon, and how she is balancing innovation with strong data foundations.They also discuss:What dunnhumby and Tesco taught Di about putting data at the heart of every decision.Why she is comfortable saying “I don’t know”, and how that curiosity shapes her teams.Why great data leaders make a subject accessible rather than hiding behind acronyms.How to build confidence in asking “what do you mean?” when vendors say a product is AI powered.How Di built a 3,000-strong data and AI community at WPP through influence rather than power.Why trust, credibility and championing your team’s work matter more than formal authority.Why Di believes there is a direct correlation between joy and productivity.Why the CDO role was in trouble, and why CEOs wanted proof of its value.Why Di wants her team to keep automating its own work and moving into new areas.How to avoid being distracted by shiny new tools while still tracking the market.What makes a data-and-AI mix of foundations and quick wins work when leaders need to show momentum.Why putting AI on bad data or bad processes is a disaster.How M&S is using Copilot licences and employee-built agents to lift individual productivity.How the Sparks loyalty scheme balances personalisation with trust.Why a data culture can’t just mean more reports, and how to motivate action instead.What responsible AI looks like in practice: explainability, and humans before, in and after the loop.Why asking the same question several ways can reveal whether a model is just trying to please you.What a story about an AI deleting people from a gym queue shows about unintended consequences.Why measuring impact is the career advice Di would give her younger self.Thanks to our sponsor, Data & AI Literacy Academy.Data & AI Literacy Academy is leading the way in transforming enterprise workforces with data literacy across the organisation, through a combination of change management and education. In today’s data-centric world, being data literate is no longer a luxury, it’s a necessity.If you want successful data product adoption, and to keep driving innovation within your business, you need to start with data & AI literacy first.At Data & AI Literacy Academy, they don’t just teach data skills. They empower individuals and teams to think critically, analyse effectively, and make decisions confidently based on data. They’re bridging the gap between business and data teams, so they can all work towards aligned outcomes.From those taking their first steps in data & AI literacy to seasoned experts looking to fine-tune their skills, our data experts provide tailored classes for every stage. But it’s not just learning tracks that they offer. They embed a deep data culture shift through a transformative change management programme.They take a people-first approach, working closely with your executive team to win the hearts and minds. We know this will drive the company-wide impact that data teams want to achieve.Get in touch and find out how you can unlock the full potential of data in your organisation. Learn more at www.dl-academy.com/drivenThanks to our sponsor FOIL AIFOIL are an AI consultancy, and one of the most exciting to watch right now.​Fast-growing, genuinely ambitious, and refreshingly down to earth, with a leadership team who have been doing this for years and are well respected for it.​FOIL push data leaders to claim a voice at the top table, to lead the business rather than trail behind it with a handful of AI productivity tools. They push the point that if every competitor has the same tools, productivity is not an advantage. The real prize with AI is bigger and FOIL have the expertise – both strategic and technical – to push the boundaries of what your organisation can achieve, in a practical way. ​FOIL are a lot bolder and braver that the traditional consultancy. That confidence comes from deep practitioner expertise, and it shows in how they engage with their partnerships.​They are claiming the phrase: the autonomic business. A business that senses what is happening, decides within clear guardrails, adapts as things change, and keeps improving on its own. Intelligence built into how the company runs, and they’ve just been recognised at the British Data Awards for their work with Welsh Water on exactly this concept.​Learn more at https://foilai.co.uk/

Welcome to another episode of Data Debrief, the companion show to Driven by Data: The Podcast, hosted by Catherine Dowden-King and Kyle Winterbottom.This week, Catherine reports back from the Marketing Showcase in Bristol, her first event as a pure attendee in a long time. The talk was all data, analytics and AI. She and Kyle explore why marketing and data share the same struggle to show their impact. They also cover how B2B brands can stand out: know exactly who you’re speaking to, be authentic, and don’t jump on every bandwagon.They then turn to a viral LinkedIn post from a Meta software engineer who says he has never felt more uncomfortable in his job. He is shipping AI-generated code he doesn’t fully understand. Is this whistleblowing turning into red-flag waving, and where should the line sit?The conversation moves to Lee Fulmer’s recent Driven by Data episode. He is Head of Data at Canadian Life Reinsurance. They cover:Why clean data alone isn’t enough for AI, and why context is what separates winners from losers.What businesses lose when people leave, and the cultural “lore” that will never make it into a prompt.Why FOMO is not a strategy.Servant leadership, and why “everything else is waste” is a useful way to frame your role.Why businesses that hire for outcomes get outcomes, and what that means for your CV.They also share news of the final Orbition community event of the year in mid-November, and mentorship activity in late November.Listen to Lee’s full episode on Driven by Data: The Podcast.

In Episode 29 of Season 7 of Driven by Data: The Podcast, Kyle Winterbottom is joined by Lee Fulmer, Head of Data at Canada Life Reinsurance, where they discuss why clean, well-governed data still isn’t AI-ready, and why context, a clear business outcome and curation matter more than any blueprint.Canada Life Reinsurance reported around a billion dollars in profit last year from roughly fifty deals, with a workforce of around 400 people in which almost everyone is an actuary. Lee reports to the CEO as the first non-actuary the business has hired, which makes it a high-stakes setting for questions about data, AI and accountability. He also explains why the “AI will replace the data team” belief has faded, how cost and the general ledger are forcing a rethink, and why agentic AI is not the right answer for most businesses yet.They also discuss:Why a data leader in a business with billion-dollar profits on a handful of deals can’t afford to treat data as raw numbers alone.Why the belief that AI makes the data team redundant took hold, and why it has unwound.How the shift to small language models and proprietary training data is putting data back at the centre.Why companies are hiring heads and directors of data rather than chasing the Chief Data Officer title.What matters more than a job title: responsibility, reporting line and empowerment.Why high-quality, well-governed data is not the same as being AI ready.What data governance has missed: the context behind a piece of information, not just its accuracy.How actuaries and reinsurance show the difference between raw data and the context that gives it meaning.Why context, not content, is king, and what the knowledge management craze of the 1990s teaches us.Why there is no universal blueprint for AI readiness, and why every organisation is a unique case.How organisational behaviour and change management matter more than technical skills in data transformation.Why this wave of AI is different: it is accessible to everybody, not just a few million specialists.How a generation that has grown up digital is approaching AI differently from older colleagues.How the general ledger is forcing leaders to question spiralling AI and data platform costs.Why many businesses have more AI pilots than they can measure, and what the RPA era should have taught them.Why the cost of compute is rising, and why success measures must be defined before AI is deployed.Why agentic AI risks repeating the RPA story in organisations with weak IT foundations.How fear of missing out drives AI decisions, and why starting with the outcome gives the right answer.What leaders should do first if their data sits in a data lake: curate it around the outcome, and keep the context.Thanks to our sponsor, Data & AI Literacy Academy.Data & AI Literacy Academy is leading the way in transforming enterprise workforces with data literacy across the organisation, through a combination of change management and education. In today’s data-centric world, being data literate is no longer a luxury, it’s a necessity.If you want successful data product adoption, and to keep driving innovation within your business, you need to start with data & AI literacy first.At Data & AI Literacy Academy, they don’t just teach data skills. They empower individuals and teams to think critically, analyse effectively, and make decisions confidently based on data. They’re bridging the gap between business and data teams, so they can all work towards aligned outcomes.From those taking their first steps in data & AI literacy to seasoned experts looking to fine-tune their skills, our data experts provide tailored classes for every stage. But it’s not just learning tracks that they offer. They embed a deep data culture shift through a transformative change management programme.They take a people-first approach, working closely with your executive team to win the hearts and minds. We know this will drive the company-wide impact that data teams want to achieve.Get in touch and find out how you can unlock the full potential of data in your organisation. Learn more at www.dl-academy.com/drivenThanks to our sponsor FOIL AIFOIL are an AI consultancy, and one of the most exciting to watch right now.​Fast-growing, genuinely ambitious, and refreshingly down to earth, with a leadership team who have been doing this for years and are well respected for it.​FOIL push data leaders to claim a voice at the top table, to lead the business rather than trail behind it with a handful of AI productivity tools. They push the point that if every competitor has the same tools, productivity is not an advantage. The real prize with AI is bigger and FOIL have the expertise – both strategic and technical – to push the boundaries of what your organisation can achieve, in a practical way. ​FOIL are a lot bolder and braver that the traditional consultancy. That confidence comes from deep practitioner expertise, and it shows in how they engage with their partnerships.​They are claiming the phrase: the autonomic business. A business that senses what is happening, decides within clear guardrails, adapts as things change, and keeps improving on its own. Intelligence built into how the company runs, and they’ve just been recognised at the British Data Awards for their work with Welsh Water on exactly this concept.​Learn more at https://foilai.co.uk/

In Episode 28 of Season 7 of Data Debrief, Catherine Dowden-King and Kyle Winterbottom look back on a packed Driven by Data Live and the lessons from its roundtables. They then turn to what a reported attack on a Russian data centre might mean for data leaders, and debrief their conversation with German Faraoni, Global Director of Shared Services at Reckitt, on why data teams need to be in the right room.In this episode:Why Driven by Data Live was oversubscribed, and why roughly 45% of attendees being new to the events is good for the community.How Chatham House round tables help people share candidly, and why authenticity matters more than ever in an AI world.An HR agent use case: an anonymous assistant on top of an HR catalogue, with guardrails that signpost support and flag sensitive questions to the HR team.Why internal, people-led AI use cases are likely to come before customer-facing ones, and how they build confidence.How something as simple as understanding your maternity leave policy can influence employee loyalty, especially if non-competes are challenged in the UK.What the reported disruption to a Russian data centre, and the apparent drop in bot and crawler activity, suggests about how much online engagement is real. Both hosts are careful to flag that the reporting is still developing.Why geopolitical stability and data sovereignty are likely to be on every event agenda next year.How AI is giving data management, governance and quality, as well as cybersecurity, a new lease of life.How CISOs balance battening down the hatches against smothering the business, and what data leaders can learn from them.Why data leaders need to work closely with PR and understand their customers’ values, since decisions about where data lives could cost customers.Why doing business is more complex than ever, and what boards are weighing up on AI.A debrief of the interview with [Guest name], including the “if you’re in this room, you’re in the wrong room” idea.How a SKU-based use case showed the value of sitting with the executive team and working back to a use case that moves the P&L.Why no one will invite you into the room, and how to build the trust and credibility to get there.Why data teams working in isolation risk building things that go nowhere.How to write a CV for two audiences, those screening for keywords and those looking for outcomes, and why hiring managers say AI-written CVs now look the same.Community shout: the final event of the year, the quarterly roundtable, takes place on 17th November. Find the details at orbitiongroup.com.