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Cult Hackers
Author: Cult Hackers
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A podcast about cult hacking! Cracking the cult code to understand what they are, how they work, how people leave and how to make sense of the world after leaving.
Father and daughter team, media graduate Celine, and former cult member now organizational psychologist Stephen, explore how cults work, why they are so dangerous and the experience of leaving and making sense of the world. They speak to cult hackers from all over the world, from ex members to academics, from writers to filmmakers, and from therapists to activists.
https://pod.link/1540824671
https://www.patreon.com/culthackers
https://culthackers.com/
Music is Snap by Purple Planet Music
Music: https://www.purple-planet.com
Father and daughter team, media graduate Celine, and former cult member now organizational psychologist Stephen, explore how cults work, why they are so dangerous and the experience of leaving and making sense of the world. They speak to cult hackers from all over the world, from ex members to academics, from writers to filmmakers, and from therapists to activists.
https://pod.link/1540824671
https://www.patreon.com/culthackers
https://culthackers.com/
Music is Snap by Purple Planet Music
Music: https://www.purple-planet.com
267 Episodes
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After 267 episodes we've decided that's the end of season 1. In the final episode of the season Celine and Stephen explore why leavers of cults and coercively controlling religions feel the need to express themselves about their experience.
To reach out to us: https://www.culthackers.com/
To become a patron: https://www.patreon.com/culthackers/posts
Our guest today is Kendra Petty, author of the memoir "I Can't Believe I'm Not Dead". Coercively controlled by her mother and a child member of a fundamentalist Christian group, only to leave and experience multiple threats to her life. It's an extraordinary story and Kendra is an engaging and fascinating guest.
Kendra's website https://kendrapettyofficial.com/
To reach out to us: https://www.culthackers.com/
Celine raises the question whether there is a link between religious belief and long life. Following the Netflix series Live to 100: Secrets of the Blue Zones the question of whether religious belief increases wellbeing is discussed by Stephen and Celine. Is there good data to suggest there is a link? If there is, is it a causal relationship or can it be explained through other factors. Is "belief" itself the key or is it what the belief might make you do? Also should we care about the "truth claims" that religions often make?
To reach out to us: https://www.culthackers.com/
To become a patron: https://www.patreon.com/culthackers/posts
This week Celine and Stephen's guest is Carmel Mikol, a filmmaker, musician, artist and former Jehovah's Witness. Carmel talks about her own experience as a young Witness finding herself in an abusive marriage and her difficulties escaping the relationship and then leaving the group. Carmel talks about the misogynistic attitudes and policies within the group and the damage they can do to young women. She also provides the Governing Body with some helpful advice about how to make the organisation a more equitable environment and nicer place to be.
Her short film is called Apostasy https://www.carmelmikol.com/film
Carmel’s Instagram is @apostatefilm
To reach out to us: https://www.culthackers.com/
To become a patron: https://www.patreon.com/culthackers/posts
A high profile case of people behaving appallingly on behalf of an organisation is big news in the UK, known as the Post Office scandal. The question of why people do unethical things to support the business, religion or cult to which they belong, has been researched and is multi-faceted. Today Stephen and Celine explore the psychological research into "Unethical Pro-organizational Behavior" as it relates to businesses but also cultic religious groups. They explore possible social reasons but also the Dark Triad of personality traits that may, in some cases, be at play.
To reach out to us: https://www.culthackers.com/
To become a patron: https://www.patreon.com/culthackers/posts
Next week's guest, Carmel Mikol's docuemtery film:
https://www.carmelmikol.com/film
References and links
explainer https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56718036.amp
Fehr, R., Welsh, D., Yam, K. C., Baer, M., Wei, W., & Vaulont, M. (2019). The role of moral decoupling in the causes and consequences of unethical pro-organizational behavior. Organizational behavior and human decision processes, 153, 27-40.
Stone, D. L., Deadrick, D. L., Lukaszewski, K. M., & Johnson, R. (2015). The influence of technology on the future of human resource management. Human resource management review, 25(2), 216-231.
Chen, M., Chen, C. C., & Sheldon, O. J. (2016, April 21). Relaxing Moral Reasoning to Win: How Organizational Identification Relates to Unethical Pro-Organizational Behavior. Journal of Applied Psychology. Advance online publication. http://dx.doi.org/10.1037/apl0000111
LeBreton, J. M., Shiverdecker, L. K., & Grimaldi, E. M. (2018). The dark triad and workplace behavior. Annual Review of Organizational Psychology and Organizational Behavior, 5, 387-414.
Celine and Stephen are joined by Micki, AKA Apostate Barbie, from Instagram and Tic Tok. Micki tells us about her journey out of the Jehovah's Witnesses. Challenging an aunt about outlandish QANON conspiracy theories, made her consider her own beliefs - not the first time we've heard our guests speak of this type of exit, from Christian Fundamentalist beliefs. Micki talks about the help and support she has experienced from other former Jehovah's Witnesses and also some of her observations about ex Jehovah's Witness communities in general.
Micki's Social Media
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/apostatebarbie/
Tik Tok: @apostatebarbie
Cult Hackers
To reach out to us: https://www.culthackers.com/
To become a patron: https://www.patreon.com/culthackers/posts
A follow-up to the conversation Stephen had with Spencer Watson from the Truth Unrestricted Podcast about magical thinking. This time Stephen was a guest on Spencer's show and this audio is brought to you by his permission. They discuss developmental psychology and how babies and children develop an understanding of a world apart from themselves and then symbolic thought. Spencer proposes a concept called pseudo-tangibility to describe how we may be creating tangible models and symbols to explain intangible and sometimes magical beliefs.
To reach out to us: https://www.culthackers.com/
To become a patron: https://www.patreon.com/culthackers/posts
Jan Frode Nilsen has a long-form interview with Stephen about his work exposing the damaging shunning policies of Jehovah's Witnesses, and his appearance as a witness for the Norwegian government in recent court cases. He also talks about his own experience as a former member raised in the group.
Documents related to the case on: Avoid JW website
Recording of elders visit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RkXsh332Fo
To reach out to us: https://www.culthackers.com/
To become a patron: https://www.patreon.com/culthackers/posts
Losing friends, making new ones, reuniting with old ones, all at the same time as finding yourself. Friendships can be a tricky thing after leaving a cult. This week some of the Cult Hacker Patreon supporters join Celine and Stephen on a panel of former Jehovah's Witnesses, to explore the process of finding and making friendships outside a high-control group. Maryann, Regina, Vincent, Tanya, Riley from the Jexit Channel and Scott from Witness Underground, discuss their own experiences of building a social world following isolation after leaving. They discuss their mistakes and lessons learned, and how they've come through the process. Christmas can also be a tricky time around friendships so the panel talk about their preferred way of either embracing it or escaping it.
To reach out to us: https://www.culthackers.com/
To become a patron: https://www.patreon.com/culthackers/posts
Other Links
Wikipedia article about the 'Friendship Paradox' as mentioned by Vincent: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendship_paradox
This short bonus episode is the audio version of a blog Stephen recently published on Medium. Many leavers of high control religions use 'waking up' as a metaphor for realising the group we had been a member of had been telling us lies, and that we had a warped worldview. The film 'The Matrix' holds resonance for many of us. In this short piece Stephen explores this, and another movie about dreaming and waking up - Inception. Upon leaving, knowing how to relate to the world is difficult and a learned suspicion of authority can sometimes lead us into fringe belief systems and Stephen reflects upon his own journey and what he learned.
The Medium Blog: The Medium Blog
To reach out to us: https://www.culthackers.com/
To become a patron: https://www.patreon.com/culthackers/posts
In the late 70s Sharon and Tracey were attracted to "The Jesus People" and joined the Last Days Ministries, living on a cult commune as teenagers with rock star Keith Green and the community he built. As teenagers they believed Jesus return would happen in 1981 and that they would be saved if they stayed within the group that was following Jesus properly. Their story is fascinating and important and they are also great fun to talk to.
To reach out to us: https://www.culthackers.com/
To become a patron: https://www.patreon.com/culthackers/posts
Useful Links:
Feet of Clay Website
https://www.confessionsofthecultsisters.com/about
For this week's podcast Celine and Stephen discuss the "software bug" inherent in human beings that makes us vulnerable to cults and their leaders.
The article on Medium https://medium.com/
To reach out to us: https://www.culthackers.com/
To become a patron: https://www.patreon.com/culthackers/posts
This week Stephen talks to Spencer Watson from the Truth Unrestricted Podcast about the question of 'Magical Thinking'. What is it? How is it different from scientific thinking? Why is it attractive? Why do ex cult members have a special interest in it? and many more questions. It's a bumper discussion this week that gets into some deep stuff as well as Spencer asking Stephen about his experience of making sense of life after leaving his cult.
To reach out to us: https://www.culthackers.com/
To become a patron: https://www.patreon.com/culthackers/posts
Spencer's podcast
Truth Unrestricted : https://pod.link/1613105409
When you're a member of a fundamentalist religious group, you find comfort in the certain knowledge that you have "The Truth". Leaving is partly a journey of coming to terms with uncertainty. Olivia Jackson herself a former member of such a group, has created an impressive piece of work, where she has interviewed 140 former members at various stages of deconstruction from former fundamentalist beliefs. Olivia is thoughtful and eloquent and treats the topic with respectfulness and curiosity.
To reach out to us: https://www.culthackers.com/
To become a patron: https://www.patreon.com/culthackers/posts
To Contact Olivia
Instagram @deconstructingwriter
https://www.oliviajacksonwriter.com/book/
Join the party to listen to some of our nearly 100 hundred different guests over the last three years. We chat over a glass of virtual bubbly to ex members of groups such as Jehovah's Witnesses, Children of God, NXIVM, Rajneeshpuram, Evangelicalism, Amish, Christian Fundamentalism and Conspiracism.
Guests featured:
Lizzie Ens, former Amish
Brent Lee, former Conspiracist
Daniella Mestyanek Young, Army Veteran and former member of the Children of God
Chris French, Emeritus Professor of Anomalistic Psychology Goldsmiths UOL
Susan Dones, ex NXIVM
Daniel Allen Cox, Author and Former Jehovah's Witness
Rachael Reign, Activist and Former UCKG
Clare Alison Hams, Therapist and Former Jehovah's Witness
JT and Lady Cee, YouTubers and ex Jehovah's Witnesses
Dr Heather Ransom, Academic and ex Jehovah's Witness
Alexander Millar, Artist and ex Jehovah's Witness
Ali Millar, Author and ex Jehovah's Witness
Kacey, Cult Vault Podcast
Dr Alexandra Stein, Academic
Daniel Stricker, Former Member KwaSizabantu
Erika Bornman, Former Member KwaSizabantu
Kendra Bryan, Former Evangelical
Nicola Ranson, Former Member Rajneeshpuram
Riley, YouTuber and Former Jehovah Witness
To reach out to us: https://www.culthackers.com/
To become a patron: https://www.patreon.com/culthackers/posts
Celine and Stephen speak to cult expert, therapist and podcaster, Rachel Bernstein about her introduction into the topic, her work as a therapist helping leavers and her thoughts on the anti-cult ecosystem. Such a thrill to speak to Rachel about her work, her experiences and her insights into cults.
To reach out to us: https://www.culthackers.com/
To become a patron: https://www.patreon.com/culthackers/posts
Links about today's guest
Indoctrination podcast: https://www.podpage.com/indoctrination/
Today we're joined by Cynane, a former member of a fundamentalist Christian group. Cynane is writing a book about the links between Fundamentalism, white Christian Nationalism and conspiracy theories. Cynane talks about her life as an evangelical Christian and how lizard people and space lasers led her out.
To reach out to us: https://www.culthackers.com/
To become a patron: https://www.patreon.com/culthackers/posts
Witness Underground Kickstarter: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/witnessunderground/431102735?ref=akkj92&token=3e50ed5a
Cynane's website https://takingoffthetinfoilhat.com/
It's perhaps the most famous psychological study ever but what does it really tell us? And what might it tell us about cults?
In the 1970s Professor Philip Zimbardo created a simulated prison in the basement of a college building, separating volunteer students into the roles of prisoners and guards to observe their behaviour. What happened next is disturbing, and led to a view that when it comes to behaviour, more important than the individual's ethics and morality, it's the situation that really matters. In addition to the obvious ethical issues raised by the study there have fairly recently been challenges to its claims and the scientific methodology. Stephen and Celine go deep into what it really tells us and it's not what was claimed.
Zimbardo article about cults
https://www.lucifereffect.com/guide_cults.htm
Recording of instructions to "prison guards"
https://purl.stanford.edu/wn708sg0050
Video recordings
https://exhibits.stanford.edu/spe/browse/video-recordings
British Psychological Society article
https://www.bps.org.uk/psychologist/time-change-story
Share this podcast with a friend https://pod.link/1540824671
To reach out to us: https://www.culthackers.com/
To become a patron: https://www.patreon.com/culthackers/posts
Witness Underground Kickstarter: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/witnessunderground/431102735?ref=akkj92&token=3e50ed5a
Stephen speaks to Scott Homan, Ryan Sutter, Anthony Mathenia, Denise Wise and Micah Allen Losch from the Witness Underground team. In this special episode each former Jehovah's Witness speaks about their struggle to find creative expression while a member, and their journey of self discovery as they left, as well as updating us on the amazing documentary film Witness Underground, and their mission to get it on the streaming platforms for more people to see it who need to.
Share this podcast with a friend https://pod.link/1540824671
To reach out to us: https://www.culthackers.com/
To become a patron: https://www.patreon.com/culthackers/posts
Witness Underground Kickstarter https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/witnessunderground/431102735?ref=akkj92&token=3e50ed5a
Micah Allen Losh Website:
https://www.micahallenlosh.com/
Nuclear Gopher Website
https://www.nucleargopher.org/
Anthony Methenia books on Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/Books-Anthony-Mathenia/s?rh=n%3A283155%2Cp_27%3AAnthony+Mathenia
Denise Wise YouTube Channel
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGk750bPcJUUPsnTS5vwhWg
Sean Maguire interviews Denise about Scott Homan's award-winning indie docu "Witness Underground" (also an ex Jehovah's Witness). Denise also talks about her books & alt-rock album that she wrote with David Donley during the lockdown.
https://outofthebagradio.weebly.com/podcasts/podcast-sean-maguire-denise-wise-nino-rodriguez-michael-jaco-kerry-cassidy-ww3-rebellion-hour-25102023
Human rights lawyer, Stephen Patterson joins us today to talk about his work representing ex-members of the New Zealand based Gloriavale religious group. Stephen provides insights into life in the group thanks to his many conversations with former members. It's some of the worst exploitation we've heard about on this podcast with children being forced to work long hours from the age of six, very little freedom within a highly patriarchal and oppressive system. Stephen also provides some more general advice on how to use the law to hold high-control groups and cults accountable for their bad behaviour.
Share this podcast with a friend https://pod.link/1540824671
To reach out to us: https://www.culthackers.com/
To become a patron: https://www.patreon.com/culthackers/posts
Witness Underground Kickstarter https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/witnessunderground/431102735?ref=akkj92&token=3e50ed5a
Great episode, but after listening I'm not convinced it's a bug, rather seems a feature and one that can be exploited
She hit it right on the nose when she said that in the incidences she was able to defend herself, it was because she felt safe and empowered. As a survivor of years of molestation by more than one during my childhood, I was conditioned to believe that no one would come if I screamed. So when as an adult I was sexually assaulted twice and raped once, I was practically silent….after all, who was going to care to come rescue me. Thank you for your story and thank you WSITA for patiently allowing her to tell it.