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Carmelite Conversations

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The Carmelite Conversations podcast discusses Carmelite Spirituality and its application to our busy, modern lives. The podcast provides counsel on how to live the Carmelite call to combine contemplative prayer with service to the Church, while at the same time providing guidance on how to make progress in holiness. Carmelite Conversations is of particular interest to Secular Carmelites as it is produced by the Secular Order of Discalced Carmelites Community of Our Mother of Good Counsel in Dayton, Ohio.
275 Episodes
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During this Lenten season, and by focusing on a few important points in the scripture passage on the Samaritan Woman, Deacon Mark Danis uses the lense of contemplation to highlight the importance of coming to know the truth about ourselves so that by coming into the light, we may be transformed by God.
So often in the spiritual journey, we can run into roadblocks. We can mistakenly perceive that we have gotten off course, and we might immediately seek to turn back to find the right path again. However, if we are walking the path of contemplation, there will most certainly be times of darkness, instances where we may feel we have done something wrong, and where we are no longer experiencing the satisfactions we once knew in prayer. It is in these times when we need to continue our prayer with a deeper degree of faith and even a more intense desire to encounter God. At this more advanced stage of the spiritual journey, God is intentionally withholding the experience of His presence so that He can do a deeper work of purification within our souls. In addition, He is asking us to practice a purer faith, and to allow Him to do this work in us. This conversation walks through the experience of this phase of prayer, and Mark and Frances describe how the soul should respond when God is calling it to this new and deeper encounter.    Books:  “Saint John of the Cross:  Master of Contemplation” by Fr. Donald Haggerty; Ignatius Press. “The Collected Works of St. John of the Cross” by John of the Cross; ICS Publications.
If you feel as though you have reached a plateau in your prayer life, or after many years of active prayer, you feel as though you are suddenly stuck, it may be the Lord is calling you to a deeper encounter with Him. The spiritual life is not static, it moves through different phases. And, like any relationship, if it is going to continue to grow, there must be changes in the way we approach prayer. There eventually comes a time in our prayer life when the Lord takes a more active role, and He needs us to begin to detach ourselves from our usual way of finding Him in prayer. This is a process of the Lord moving from our more comfortable and active practice of meditation, to a more destabilizing but interior practice of contemplation. Our primary response must be surrender and receptivity. In this next phase of the journey to God, we must be willing to allow Him to draw us toward Himself, into a place of quiet serenity. This conversation outlines both the prerequisites for this movement and the disposition the soul must develop in order to continue to make progress.   Books:  “Saint John of the Cross:  Master of Contemplation” by Fr. Donald Haggerty; Ignatius Press. “The Collected Works of St. John of the Cross” by John of the Cross; ICS Publications.      
What is like to enter into the 7th Dwelling Place?  What was it like for St. Teresa?  Then we turn to a discussion about spiritual marriage.  We focus on what this experience/union with God was like for St. Teresa.  These chapters truly help us to have Holy Amazement!   RESOURCES:  “Interior Castle, Study Guide, 2nd Edition” by St. Teresa of Avila; Translated and Prepared by Kieran Kavanaugh, OCD; ICS Publications. “The Collected Works of St. Teresa of Avila,” Vol. 1 (includes “The Book of Her Life, Spiritual Testimonies, Soliloquies”) by St. Teresa of Avila, Translated by Kieran Kavanaugh, OCD and Otilio Rodriguez, OCD; ICS Publications. “The Ordinary Path to Holiness” by R. Thomas Richard, PhD; St. Pauls, 2003. “Journey into Divine Intimacy with St. Teresa of Avila” by Sr. Leslie Lund, OCDH; Carmelite Sisters of Mary Publishers, 2019. “The Interior Journey Toward God:  Reflections from Saint Teresa of Avila,” by John Paul Thomas; My Catholic Life! Inc., 2022. “I Want to See God” by P. Marie Eugene, OCD; Christian Classics. “The Spiritual Life:  A Treatise on Ascetical and Mystical Theology” by Adolph Tanquerey, SS, DD; Tan Books. “Divine Intimacy” by Fr. Gabriel of St. Mary Magdalen, OCD; Tan Books.    
Deacon Mark Danis, OCDS, shares ways to prepare during Advent for the birth of our Lord. He provides suggestions specific for Secular Carmelites. This talk was given during a Holy Hour.
In the final rooms of the 6th Dwelling Place of the Interior Castle, St. Teresa teaches us about some special favors our Lord gives to prepare the soul with wedding garments for entrance into His Kingly Chambers, the Throne Room.  The Lord gives us the light to know we are in God and God is in us and how damaging it is for us to sin in God.    In order to go forward, the soul must also understand that God is Truth, the Light of Truth.  St. Teresa clarifies that to walk in truth is to walk in humility.  In the final chapter of the 6th Dwelling Place, we enter the room of the Fire of Love and the ardent anguish souls experience in their uncontainable desires for full union with God in Spiritual Marriage.  Despite the great pain, much joy and great benefits are experienced.   RESOURCES:  “Interior Castle, Study Guide, 2nd Edition” by St. Teresa of Avila; Translated and Prepared by Kieran Kavanaugh, OCD; ICS Publications. “The Collected Works of St. Teresa of Avila,” Vol. 1 (includes “The Book of Her Life, Spiritual Testimonies, Soliloquies”) by St. Teresa of Avila, Translated by Kieran Kavanaugh, OCD and Otilio Rodriguez, OCD; ICS Publications. “The Ordinary Path to Holiness” by R. Thomas Richard, PhD; St. Pauls, 2003. “Journey into Divine Intimacy with St. Teresa of Avila” by Sr. Leslie Lund, OCDH; Carmelite Sisters of Mary Publishers, 2019. “The Word of the Lord:  Reflections on the Sunday Mass Readings, Year A” by John Bergsma; Emmaus Road Publishing.  
On the Solemnity of St. Teresa of Avila, Deacon Mark Danis gave an inspiring reflection.  His focus was on the famous quote of St. Teresa:  “You must have a very determined determination.”  He then asks what are we to be so determined about.  Secondly, he asks how do we reconcile our determined determination with our total abandonment to God’s will.  This is a very fruitful and inspiring reflection which also ties into the sixth mansion of St. Teresa’s great work, “The Interior Castle.”
The most challenging phase of our spiritual journey is the transition from meditative prayer to contemplative prayer.  This transition literally requires us to begin to abandon the comfortable methods of prayer, and the use of our faculties, that we have come to rely on.  In this conversation, Mark and Frances explain the disposition the soul must adopt when it discerns the Lord is calling it to this more intimate encounter in prayer.  Here the soul moves to a condition of receptivity, silence, waiting and surrender or abandonment to God’s will, which most especially includes His timing.  Here the lover is asked to increase its desire for the Beloved, not through its own activity or efforts, but rather by waiting on her Beloved to take the initiative.  This program is very helpful for those beginning to experience the first stages of contemplative prayer.   Books:  “Saint John of the Cross:  Master of Contemplation” by Fr. Donald Haggerty; Ignatius Press. “The Collected Works of St. John of the Cross” by John of the Cross; ICS Publications.  
The Lord (the Bridegroom) continues to draw the soul (the Bride) closer to Him through the purification of the soul as well as mystical favors that may occur.  In this episode, we talk about the importance of keeping the humanity of Christ present in our prayer.  Additionally, we focus on two very special favors that St. Teresa of Avila experienced:  the intellectual vision of Christ’s Presence at her right side…and the imaginative vision of the image of Christ engraved in the memory.  Learning about these favors helps us to praise our loving and merciful Lord, but St. Teresa cautions us why we should never desire these favors for ourselves.  She gives us 6 particular points to consider in this regard.   RESOURCES:  “Interior Castle, Study Guide, 2nd Edition” by St. Teresa of Avila; Translated and Prepared by Kieran Kavanaugh, OCD; ICS Publications. “The Collected Works of St. Teresa of Avila,” Vol. 1 (includes “The Book of Her Life, Spiritual Testimonies, Soliloquies”) by St. Teresa of Avila, Translated by Kieran Kavanaugh, OCD and Otilio Rodriguez, OCD; ICS Publications. “The Ordinary Path to Holiness” by R. Thomas Richard, PhD; St. Pauls, 2003. “Where Lovers Meet:  Inside the Interior Castle” by Susan Muto; ICS Publications.    
One of the most difficult phases in the spiritual life of prayer, is the transition from meditation to contemplation. In this conversation, Mark and Frances continue their discussion on Fr. Donald Haggerty's Book on the writings of John of the Cross. Here, they explore the five critical means for identifying if a soul is being invited to move from discursive meditation to contemplation. They identify both the experiences, and the potential risks as a soul is beginning to be drawn into this more intimate and interior encounter with God. They also identify the ways in which the soul should respond to these graces, and they provide comfort to those who may feel they have lost their way along the path of prayer.   Books:  “Saint John of the Cross:  Master of Contemplation” by Fr. Donald Haggerty; Ignatius Press. “The Collected Works of St. John of the Cross” by John of the Cross; ICS Publications.  
God continues to draw the soul closer to Him through the purification of the soul as well as mystical favors that may occur.  In this episode, we talk about ecstasies, raptures, flights of the spirit, spiritual betrothal, gift of tears, and the prayer of jubilation.  These are all communications from God to the individual soul to draw the soul closer to Himself.  St. Teresa always helps us know the effects of such favors and how to discern if they are truly from God.  Although some souls may never experience these favors, just knowing about them helps us to praise God all the more for his Majesty, Power, Wisdom and Love.   RESOURCES:  “Interior Castle, Study Guide, 2nd Edition” by St. Teresa of Avila; Translated and Prepared by Kieran Kavanaugh, OCD; ICS Publications. “The Interior Journey Toward God: Reflections from Saint Teresa of Avila” by John Paul Thomas; My Catholic Life. “Journey into Divine Intimacy with St. Teresa of Avila:  a Retreat, Spiritual Direction Guide, and Study Resource” by Sr. Leslie Lund, OCDH (Hermit of the Order of Discalced Carmelites); Carmelite Sisters of Mary Publishers, 2019. “The Ordinary Path to Holiness” by R. Thomas Richard, PhD; St. Pauls, 2003. “The Spiritual Life” by Adollphe Tanquerey, SS. DD; Tan Books, 2000. “Visions and Revelations” by Fr. Gabriel of St. Mary Magdalen; Sophia Institute Press; 2022. “Private Revelation: Discerning with the Church” by Mark Miravalle; Seat of Wisdom Publications; 2007. “Revelations and Visions” by Augustin Poulain, SJ; St. Paul’s, 1998.  
In this homily, Deacon Mark Danis asked himself what can souls do to prepare themselves in the Active Night to enter into the Passive Night of the Spirit, which St. John of the Cross discusses in his book, “Ascent to Mount Carmel” as well as in book, “The Dark Night of the Soul.” Deacon Danis helps us understand why there is a  need for the purification of the faculties of the memory, intellect and will and what we can do to respond favorably to God’s call to union with Him.
In the life of prayer, there are always transitions.  We cannot remain static in our pursuit of God.  In this particular program, Mark and Frances identify the seven vices that often hold us back from progressing into deeper, more interior stages of prayer.  They also identify how St. John of the Cross counsels souls to respond to these impediments to our spiritual growth.  Next, they offer evidence of the beginning of gift of contemplation.  This transitional period is significant in that it is the place where so many souls run the risk of losing their way, or of turning back.  This critical transitional period requires a new approach to prayer, and it demands more fidelity in abandoning ourselves to God’s specific designs for our life.  Book:  “Saint John of the Cross:  Master of Contemplation” by Fr. Donald Haggerty; Ignatius Press.
The 16th Century Spanish Franciscan Friar, Francisco de Osuna, was the author of a book considered to be a great masterpiece and spiritual classic called:  “The Third Spiritual Alphabet,” which profoundly influenced the great Discalced Carmelite, St. Teresa of Avila. She particularly focused on his description and practice of the prayer of recollection as a pathway to union with God. In this podcast, Deacon Rusty Baldwin, discusses how this book influenced and formed St. Teresa of Avila.  He also shares some of the maxims of Osuna regarding prayer.  There is much to ponder here which will be helpful to anyone desiring to grow closer to God in prayer.
As we continue the journey with Fr. Haggerty, through the works of St. John of the Cross, we now wrestle with one of the least understood, and little practiced requirements for entry into contemplative prayer. This program focuses first on the practice of asceticism, the healthy denial of our desires so that we can create space for God to fill us with the only desire that matters – Himself. Then, having gained some knowledge of the practice and benefits of asceticism, we turn to the purification of the will, the central human capacity for drawing us into union with God. Mark and Frances will discuss how, through the use of the will’s three principle operations, we are able to conform ourselves better to God’s will, and to dispose ourselves to full union with Him.   Book:  “Saint John of the Cross:  Master of Contemplation” by Fr. Donald Haggerty; Ignatius Press.
  In our first program on the topic of contemplation in St. John of the Cross, we discussed that we can expect to experience God’s concealment, which means we need to proceed in the darkness of pure faith. But this faith comes with its own measure of certitude; we do not need to feel as though we are lost. Indeed, in pure faith we proceed with the greatest confidence that we will not lose our way. At the same time, we need to be wary of even perceived divine communications. In this program, Mark and Frances offer us consolation through the practice of pure dark faith. And, with the guidance of St. John of the Cross, and Fr. Donald Haggerty, they help guide listeners through an understanding as to how to respond to divine communications. This program is particularly helpful for those currently experiencing God’s apparent absence, or those who may have received what they believe to be divine communications.   Book:  “Saint John of the Cross:  Master of Contemplation” by Fr. Donald Haggerty; Ignatius Press.
St. John of the Cross did not write for beginners in prayer.  His works are for those who have been practicing prayer for some time and have begun to make progress on the spiritual journey.  In this conversation, Mark and Frances discuss two of the most critical aspects of our maturing relationship with God.  The first is the sometimes difficult reality that God conceals Himself from our efforts to encounter Him in prayer.  There are practical reasons for why this is the case, and St. John of the Cross offers us insight on how we should respond to these circumstances.  The next experience, and one largely born of God’s concealment, is the deepening experience of longing for the encounter with God.  St. John of the Cross likewise provides us with wise counsel on how to increase this longing, and how to dispose ourselves to gain the most benefit in the midst of these apparent absences of the Beloved. Book:  “Saint John of the Cross:  Master of Contemplation” by Fr. Donald Haggerty; Ignatius Press.    
Here in the 6th Dwelling Place, the soul goes through an intensification of the Dark Night, specifically the Dark Night of the Spirit.   It’s no surprise that St. Teresa of Avila begins in the first chapter with the trials and sufferings of this mansion.  However, she quickly draws the souls attention to the LOVE of God in the second chapter through the Wounds of Love.  She herself is known for having experienced an intense wound of love called the “Transverberation” of her heart by an angel.  In the third chapter, St. Teresa teaches us about locutions, words heard by the soul (from God, or from the devil, or from our own imaginations).  She gives us clear discernment points to help us so that we are not deceived. RESOURCES: “Interior Castle, Study Guide, 2nd Edition” by St. Teresa of Avila; Translated and Prepared by Kieran Kavanaugh, OCD; ICS Publications. “The Interior Journey Toward God: Reflections from Saint Teresa of Avila” by John Paul Thomas; My Catholic Life. “The Devil in the Castle:  St. Teresa of Avila, Spiritual Warfare, and the Progress of the Soul” by Dan Burke; Sophia Institute Press. “The Wonders of the Heart of St. Teresa of Jesus” by Simon of Sts. Joseph and Therese. “From Ash to Fire:  An Odyssey in Prayer;” (A contemporary journey through the Interior Castle of Teresa of Avila) by Carolyn Humphreys; New City Press, New York. Podcast:  CarmelCast for July 10 on St. John of the Cross’s “Living Flame of Love”, Stanza 2,  Part 1.   Link found on www.icspublications.org.  Also Found on YouTube.  
As we continue the journey through the interior castle, we grow deeper and deeper in our intimacy and relationship with the Lord.  The 5th Dwelling Place/Mansion can be understood to be the deeper revelation of God to the soul and the joining of hands in spiritual courtship with our Divine Spouse. It is in anticipation of a deeper union to come in the remaining mansions.  St. Teresa of Avila gives us the analogy of the silkworm turning into a butterfly to help us understand this interior transformation.  In this podcast, we discuss the difference between the degree of prayer called “the prayer of union” and the “union of will with God’s will.”  We also highlight some of the tactics of the devil in this dwelling place as well as counsels from St. Teresa on what we should do to grow in union with God.   Resources:  “Interior Castle” 2nd Edition, Study Guide by St. Teresa of Avila; ICS Publications. “The Interior Journey Toward God: Reflections from Saint Teresa of Avila” by John Paul Thomas; My Catholic Life! Inc. “Collected Works of St. Teresa of Avila,” vol. 3; ICS Publications. www.flameoflove.us Unity Prayer given to the Carmelite Secular, Elizabeth Kindelmann of Hungary.  Book called “The Flame of Love of the Immaculate Heart of Mary:  The Spiritual Diary” by Elizabeth Kendelmann.  
What are the Evangelical Counsels and why are they important to Carmelites? This homily by Deacon Baldwin was given to the Secular Order of Discalced Carmelites in Dayton during a Community meeting Holy Hour.
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