Wild Precious Life

Crystal Wilkinson is the award-winning author of several books including Praisesong for the Kitchen Ghosts: Stories and Recipes from Five Generations of Black Country Cooks. She was Poet Laureate of Kentucky from 2021 to 2023, and currently teaches creative writing at the University of Kentucky where she is a Bush-Holbrook Endowed Professor. In today’s episode, Crystal and Annmarie discuss kitchen ghosts, family recipes – including how biscuits need to “kiss,” and the blessings and self-awareness we find in the stories of our ancestors. Episode Sponsor: Charis Books and More – An independent feminist bookstore. Charis fosters sustainable feminist communities, works for social justice, and encourages the expression of diverse and marginalized voices. When you spend your money or your time at Charis Books and More, you are investing in the radical belief that multi-racial organizing and movement- building centered in a Southern, queer, feminist, anti-racist practice can shift culture and change lives and we appreciate your support. Stop by our Decatur, Georgia store or find us online at charisbooksandmore.com. BEM | books and more – BEM is a bookstore specializing in food literature of the African Diaspora, inspired by a line of dynamic and brilliant Black women who season with love and spin tales with the best of them. Honoring that legacy and those of Black folks and families across time and place is at the heart of what they do. Food opens a door to life, to sustenance, to love, to politics, and BEM | books and more is thrilled to welcome you into their community to explore it all together. Discover more online at bembrooklyn.com or on their Instagram @bembrooklyn. Wild Precious Life listeners receive 10% off their orders at BEM | books and more. Just type in the code WILDPRECIOUSLIFE (all one word) when you check out. Titles Discussed in this Episode: Praisesong for the Kitchen Ghosts: Stories and Recipes from Five Generations of Black Country Cooks, by Crystal Wilkinson Perfect Black, by Crystal Wilkinson The Birds of Opulence, by Crystal Wilkinson Other conversations with Crystal Wilkinson: PRAISESONG FOR THE KITCHEN GHOSTS: STORIES AND RECIPES FROM FIVE GENERATIONS OF BLACK COUNTRY COOKS PERFECT BLACK: CRYSTAL WILKINSON IN CONVERSATION WITH KIESE LAYMON BREATH BETTER SPENT: LIVING BLACK GIRLHOOD--DAMARIS B. HILL IN CONVERSATION WITH CRYSTAL WILKINSON Follow Crystal Wilkinson: Instagram: @crystalwilki Twitter: @crystalwilki Facebook: @wilkinsoncrystal crystalewilkinson.net Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Christina Cooke was born in Jamaica and is now a Canadian citizen who lives and writes in New York City. BROUGHTUPSY is her debut novel. In today’s episode, Annmarie and Christina discuss cultural upbringings, the cruelty of children, the joys of weightlifting, and how all humans are complex and contradictory and deserving of love.  Episode Sponsor: Zora’s Den – Dedicated to empowering the lives of Black women writers. At Zora’s Den, we host a monthly reading series, conduct workshops, and invite writers to share their work-in-progress for feedback and constructive criticism. Our hope is to build a sisterhood of writers at every level of accomplishment and to strengthen the voices of the unheard and unacknowledged. If you’re a Black woman writer, you’re welcome to join us. Learn more at zorasden.com. Brain Lair Books – A black-owned, woman-owned children's bookstore located in South Bend, Indiana. At Brain Lair, we partner with local schools and universities to help build an inclusive, welcoming community. We specialize in juvenile and young adult literature written by and for Black, Indigenous, People of Color, LGBTQIA+, and Disabled communities, as well as adult nonfiction about ending white supremacy, promoting anti-racism, and becoming a social activist. We can help you find the books you need. Drop by or browse online at brainlairbooks.com. Titles Discussed in this Episode: BROUGHTUPSY, by Christina Cooke IMAGINARY HOMELANDS, by Salman Rushdie WHITE TEETH, by Zadie Smith It’s All Coming Back to Me Now, by Celine Dion. Learn more about Louise Bennett, a Jamaican folklorist and poet.  Follow Christina Cooke: Instagram: @christina.j.cooke Twitter: @christinajcooke www.christinajcooke.com Photo credit: Eli Jules Photography  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sarah Kain Gutowski is the author of Fabulous Beast and along with interdisciplinary artist Meredith Starr, she’s co-creator of Every Second Feels Like Theft, a conversation in cyanotypes and poems, and It's All Too Much, a limited edition podcast and art project. She’s out now with a new book of narrative poetry, The Familiar. In today’s episode, Sarah and Annmarie discuss the ache of literary ambition, how parenthood divides us from ourselves, and how Moonstruck is one of the best movies of all time. Episode Sponsor: Zora’s Den – Dedicated to empowering the lives of Black women writers. At Zora’s Den, we host a monthly reading series, conduct workshops, and invite writers to share their work-in-progress for feedback and constructive criticism. Our hope is to build a sisterhood of writers at every level of accomplishment and to strengthen the voices of the unheard and unacknowledged. If you’re a Black woman writer, you’re welcome to join us. Learn more at zorasden.com. Split Rock Books – A locally-owned, independently-minded neighborhood bookstore located in the heart of the Hudson Valley. Split Rock carries a curated selection of new books with a focus on literary fiction and non-fiction, small presses, local interest, and children's books. We host a variety of family programming, book clubs, readings, signings and discussions. And we’re located steps from the Cold Spring train station, which is just over an hour from New York City. Learn more or shop online at splitrockbks.com. Titles Discussed in this Episode: The Familiar, by Sarah Kain Gutowski Fabulous Beast, by Sarah Kain Gutowski  Kate Bush's album 50 Words for Snow One of Annmarie and Sarah’s favorite scenes from the movie Moonstruck. Hills Like White Elephants, a short story by Ernest Hemingway. ​ Follow Sarah Kain Gutowski: Instagram: @sarahkaingutowski Twitter: @skgutowski Facebook: /sarahkaingutowskiauthor TikTok: @sarahkaingutowski Email: sarah.kain.gutowski [at] gmail.com Website: https://www.sarahkaingutowski.com Photo credit: Priyanca Rao Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Originally from Argentina, Cecilia Gentili came to the U.S. pursuing a safer life as a transgender woman. She lived undocumented for 10 years. After surviving arrests and an immigration detention, she accessed recovery services and won asylum. Cecilia founded Transgender Equity Consulting, which works to ensure all people living on the margins receive dignity and respect. In today’s episode, Annmarie and Cecilia talk about growing up on the margins, emigrating to the United States, and how to love and forgive people who struggle to offer dignity or understanding in return.   Cecilia Gentili passed away on Feb. 6, 2024. She was 52 years old. Episode Sponsor: The Word Is Change – A neighborhood bookstore in Bed-Stuy, Brooklyn, selling used and new books, hosting readings and meetings, buying books for resale, and supporting visual artists. Come into the store and find the perfect book you were looking for, or the perfect book you didn’t even know you were looking for. And shop online at thewordischange.com. Titles Discussed in this Episode: FALTAS, by Cecilia Gentili Here are links to some of Cecilia’s favorite songs: Isabel Pantoja singing “Abrásame Muy Fuerte,” (or Hug Me Really Hard. Gilda singing “No me Arrepiento de este Amor,” (or I Don't Regret This Love).  Laura Branigan singing “Gloria.”  Here’s a clip from Cecilia Gentili appearing as Ms. Orlando in POSE. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Leslie Jamison has written two essay collections, The Empathy Exams and Make It Scream, Make It Burn. She also gained prominence for her critical memoir, The Recovering: Intoxication and Its Aftermath. She’s out now with a new book, Splinters, about raising a child during the end of a relationship and the beginning of the pandemic. In today’s episode, Annmarie and Leslie talk about motherhood and how it’s both a mad transformative mystery and a boring daily slog. It’s both the Cheerios ground into the carpet and the love etched into your heart.  Episode Sponsors: Greenlight Bookstore – Through knowledgeable staff, curated book selection, community partnerships, and a robust e-commerce website, Greenlight combines the best traditions of the neighborhood bookstore with a forward-looking sensibility, and welcomes readers of every kind to the heart of Brooklyn. Learn more and shop online at greenlightbookstore.com. Flourish After Forty – A women’s retreat cultivating growth and contentment in midlife. Join facilitators Dr. Shannon Sherfey and Holly Stencil for a weekend of nourishing your body, mind, and spirit. We’ll examine struggles, let go of narratives that do not serve us, and shift our mindset toward blooming in midlife. If you’re looking to step away from stagnation and move into joy and gratitude, check out the Flourish After 40 Women’s Retreat today. Go to tinyurl.com/FlourishAfterForty to learn more. Titles by Leslie Jamison: SPLINTERS: ANOTHER KIND OF LOVE STORY THE EMPATHY EXAMS MAKE IT SCREAM, MAKE IT BURN THE RECOVERING: INTOXICATION AND ITS AFTERMATH THE GIN CLOSET: A NOVEL Other Titles and Authors Discussed in this Episode: Easy Beauty, by Chloé Cooper Jones Flight, by Lynn Steger Strong Here’s a trailer for the latest season of Love Island. Follow Leslie Jamison: Twitter: @lsjamison www.lesliejamison.com Photo credit: Beowulf Sheehan Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Angeline Boulley, an enrolled member of the Sault Ste. Marie Tribe of Chippewa Indians, is a storyteller who writes about her Ojibwe community in Michigan's Upper Peninsula. She is a former Director of the Office of Indian Education at the U.S. Department of Education and is the author of two bestselling novels, Firekeeper’s Daughter and Warrior Girl Unearthed. In today’s episode, Angeline and Annmarie talk about the need to protect and celebrate indigenous artifacts, cultures, and stories. Episode Sponsors: Brain Lair Books – A black-owned, woman-owned children's bookstore located in South Bend, Indiana. At Brain Lair, we partner with local schools and universities to help build an inclusive, welcoming community. We specialize in juvenile and young adult literature written by and for Black, Indigenous, People of Color, LGBTQIA+, and Disabled communities, as well as adult nonfiction about ending white supremacy, promoting anti-racism, and becoming a social activist. We can help you find the books you need. Drop by or browse online at brainlairbooks.com. International Writers' Collective – The Collective offers fiction and poetry workshops online and in the Netherlands and a vibrant international community to support you in your writing goals. Many students view their program as a cheaper and more flexible alternative to an MFA. Learn more and find a class at internationalwriterscollective.com. Titles and Authors Discussed in This Episode: The Firekeeper’s Daughter, by Angeline Boulley Warrior Girl Unearthed, by Angeline Boulley House Party, edited by justin a. reynolds Yellowface, by R.F. Kwon The Shadow Sister, by Lily Mead  Promise Boys, by Nick Brooks The Only Good Indians, Stephen Graham Jones. Elatsoe, by Darcie Little Badger English-Cayuga/Cayuga-English Dictionary, by Frances Froman, Alfred J. Keye, Lottie Keye, and Carrie J. Dyck Here’s a sneak peak of the movie Interstellar. Follow Angeline Boulley: Instagram: @angelineboulley Twitter: @FineAngeline Facebook: @angelineboulleyauthor Angelineboulley.com Photo credit: Marcella Hadden Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Born and raised in Northeast Ohio, Athena Dixon is a poet, essayist, and editor. She is the author of The Loneliness Files, The Incredible Shrinking Woman, and No God In This Room, winner of the Intersectional Midwest Chapbook Contest. In this episode, Annmarie and Athena talk about mental health, women who die alone, and how having loneliness in common might just be the connection we need to take better care of one another. Episode Sponsors: A Novel Idea – A community-minded bookstore and event space in East Passyunk, Philadelphia. At A Novel Idea, we hope to create and foster a space of diversity and inclusivity, and we want to help our customers fall in love with books, either for the first time or the millionth. More than anything, our goal is to cultivate community. Stop in or shop online at anovelideaphilly.com. Zora’s Den – Dedicated to empowering the lives of Black women writers. At Zora’s Den, we host a monthly reading   series, conduct workshops, and invite writers to share their work-in-progress for feedback and constructive criticism. Our hope is to build a sisterhood of writers at every level of accomplishment and to strengthen the voices of the unheard and unacknowledged. If you’re a Black woman writer, you’re welcome to join us. Learn more at zorasden.com. Titles Discussed in This Episode: The Loneliness Files, by Athena Dixon The Incredible Shrinking Woman, by Athena Dixon No God in This Room, by Athena Dixon The Dictionary of Obscure Sorrows, by John Koenig Their Eyes Were Watching God, by Zora Neale Hurston Here’s a sneak peak of the movie Goodfellas. Here’s the video for Hollywood by Victoria Monét. Follow Athena Dixon: Instagram: @the_muse_paper Twitter: @AthenaDDixon Facebook: @athenadevondixon athenadixon.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Olga Mecking is a writer, journalist, and translator based in the Netherlands, and she’s the reporter who made Niksen (“doing nothing”) go viral. Her New York Times article on the subject was shared over 100,000 times. In this episode, Annmarie and Olga talk about the health and creativity benefits of doing nothing and why it is that pauses, rests, and breaks too often feel out of reach for our overworked selves. Episode Sponsors: The American Book Center – Booksellers with a personal touch. This family-owned bookstore, opened in 1972, has been quirky, friendly and knowledgeable from the start, and just counting our present staff, we represent more than 700 years of combined bookselling experience. Our Amsterdam location is often listed as one of the Ten Most beautiful Bookshops in the World, and our stores are highly rated for assortment and personal service. Drop by to touch and smell the books, or shop online at abc.nl. International Writers' Collective – The Collective offers fiction and poetry workshops online and in the Netherlands and a vibrant international community to support you in your writing goals. Many students view their program as a cheaper and more flexible alternative to an MFA. Learn more and find a class at internationalwriterscollective.com. Titles Discussed in This Episode: Niksen: The Dutch Art of Doing Nothing, by Olga Mecking One Chance in a Thousand: A Holocaust Memoir, by Jan Balicki and Olga Mecking Here’s the trailer for FLASHDANCE. Here’s the video for YELLOW SUBMARINE by the Beatles. Follow Olga Mecking: Instagram: @olgamecking Twitter: @OlgaMecking Facebook: @OlgaMeckingWriter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Prince Shakur’s debut memoir, When They Tell You to Be Good, is a political and personal exploration of his coming of age as a writer and activist. In this episode, Laura Maylene Walter talks to Prince Shakur about how race and identity shaped his formative years, how journaling providing him with a creative outlet, his experience with activism and protest, the challenges he faced in the publishing industry, and working with Hanif Abdurraqib as his editor at Tin House Books, and more. Follow Page Count Follow Laura Maylene Walter   Follow Prince Shakur Instagram: @sweetblackprince Twitter: @prshakur YouTube: @PrinceShakurYouTube www.princeshakur.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Alejandro Varela is the author of THE TOWN OF BABYLON, a finalist for the National Book Award, and THE PEOPLE WHO REPORT MORE STRESS, which The New York Times called “a master class in analyzing the unspoken” and praised Varela for shedding light on complex societal problems with “seemingly effortless wit and empathy." Varela has a Master’s Degree in Public Health, and believes strongly in reparations, land back, a national health service, and a $36 minimum wage pegged to inflation. In this episode, Annmarie and Alejandro talk about social justice, online dating, and whether writing fiction can help foster the collective liberation of our society. Episode Sponsors: The Word Is Change – A neighborhood bookstore in Bed-Stuy, Brooklyn, selling used and new books, hosting readings and meetings, buying books for resale, and supporting visual artists. Come into the store and find the perfect book you were looking for, or the perfect book you didn’t even know you were looking for. And shop online at thewordischange.com. Greenlight Bookstore – Through knowledgeable staff, curated book selection, community partnerships, and a robust e-commerce website, Greenlight combines the best traditions of the neighborhood bookstore with a forward-looking sensibility, and welcomes readers of every kind to the heart of Brooklyn. Learn more and shop online at greenlightbookstore.com. Titles Discussed in This Episode: THE TOWN OF BABYLON, by Alejandro Varela  THE PEOPLE WHO REPORT MORE STRESS, by Alejandro Varela FALTAS: LETTERS TO EVERYONE IN MY HOMETOWN WHO ISN’T MY RAPIST, by Cecilia Gentili Here’s the trailer for PAST LIVES. Follow Alejandro Varela: Instagram: @drovarela Twitter: @drovarela alejandrovarela.work Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Lou-Andrea Callewaert was a chronically ill child who learned to write through her pain. She’s the author of I FELL IN LOVE WITH HOPE, the story of young hospital patients who support one another throughout their terminal diagnoses and promise to live fully for as long as they are able. Lou writes under the pen name Lancali, and in this episode, she and Annmarie talk about grief, horseback riding, and the necessity of clinging to hope even when it seems like there is no reason to do so. Episode Sponsors: San Marco Books and More – An indie shop in Jacksonville, Florida, offering a large stock of classic fiction, a full range of children's books, an extensive choice of leather-bound titles, and literary gifts for folks of all ages. Drop by or shop online at sanmarcobooksandmore.com. Parnassus Books – An independent bookstore located in Nashville, Tennessee, Parnassus is co-owned by bestselling author Ann Patchett and Managing Partner Karen Hayes. Parnassus provides a refuge for Nashvillians of all ages who share in our love of the written word. Learn more and shop online at parnassusbooks.net. Titles Discussed in This Episode: I FELL IN LOVE WITH HOPE, by Lancali Here’s the trailer for TWO BROTHERS.  Follow Lou-Andrea Callewaert: TikTok: @lancali Instagram: @lancalii Twitter: @lancaliii Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Vauhini Vara’s debut novel, THE IMMORTAL KING RAO, has been published around the world, is being adapted for television, and was a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize. She’s out now with a new story collection, THIS IS SALVAGED, which Lit Hub and Electric Literature named one of the most anticipated books of the year. In this episode, Annmarie and Vauhini talk about the opportunities and costs of technology, writing through grief, and how to use Battlestar Galactica to solve craft problems. Episode Sponsors: Pegasus Books – Offering a huge selection of new, used and sale titles, Pegasus bookstores are welcoming and inclusive neighborhood spaces, where we believe in the printed word and in the alchemy of sharing books with one another. Find your next great read and shop online at pegasusbookstore.com. StoryStudio Chicago – A writing center located in Chicago and online, which helps writers hone their craft, express their creativity, and tell their stories. With classes covering a wide variety of topics, genres, and levels, there is truly something for everyone at StoryStudio. Learn more at storystudiochicago.org. Writing by Vauhini Vara: The Immortal King Rao This Is Salvaged Ghosts Confessions of a Viral AI Writer Unknown Unknowns: UFOs, Autonomous Cars, and Someone Who Can Beat Trump Other Titles Discussed in This Episode: The Sorrow of Others, by Ada Zhang Blue (Da Ba Dee), by Eiffel 65 Here’s the video for Disney’s Lava (It’s okay to cry.) Even if you’re not into sci-fi, check out Battlestar Galactica. Follow Vauhini Vara: Twitter: @vauhinivara Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Karen Walrond is the author of THE LIGHTMAKER’S MANIFESTO and THE BEAUTY OF DIFFERENT, and she’s out now with a new book, RADIANT REBELLION, in which she urges all of us to reexamine the myths and celebrate more of the opportunities of growing older. In this episode, Karen and Annmarie talk about reclaiming aging, practicing joy, and how to take charge of our own stories as we walk, dance, and even hula hoop into the second half of our lives.  Episode Sponsors: Blue Willow Bookshop – A locally-owned, independently-minded West  Houston bookstore. Blue Willow is run by a team of opinionated, well-read women. Our staff meetings are full of laughter, our back room is full of snacks, and we absolutely love putting the right book into a reader’s hands. We’ve got recommendations. We’ve got pizzazz. And we look forward to welcoming you to our happy place. Stop in or shop online at bluewillow bookshop.com. Lit Youngstown – A literary community proud to support beginning and experienced writers who seek to hone their craft, foster understanding, and share and publish their creative work. Read, write, and tell your story at lityoungstown.org. Books by Karen Walrond: RADIANT REBELLION: RECLAIM AGING, PRACTICE JOY, AND RAISE A LITTLE HELL THE LIGHTMAKER’S MANIFESTO: HOW TO WORK FOR CHANGE WITHOUT LOSING YOUR JOY THE BEAUTY OF DIFFERENT: OBSERVATIONS OF A CONFIDENT MISFIT Other Titles Discussed in This Episode: Fierce Self-Compassion: How Women Can Harness Kindness to Speak Up, Claim Their Power, and Thrive, by Dr. Kristin Neff Good Talk, by Mira Jacob Follow Karen Walrond: Instagram: @heychookooloonks Facebook: @chookooloonks www.chookooloonks.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Christian Kiefer is the director of the low-residency MFA at Ashland University. He’s the author of The Infinite Tides, The Animals, and Phantoms which was one of Kirkus Reviews and the BBC’s Best Books of 2019. And he’s out with a new novel, THE HEART OF IT ALL. Christian is the recipient of a Pushcart Prize for his short fiction and has enjoyed a second career in music, releasing a number of albums primarily in the folk-rock and avant-garde traditions. In this episode, Annmarie and Christian talk about love stories, goose attacks, and how any of us manage, in an increasingly divided America, to find a sense of family and community. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On Sept. 16, 2023, one of our beloved guests, Echo Brown, passed away. We were incredibly saddened by the news, this is for her. Echo Brown’s recent memoir, THE CHOSEN ONE, examines the opportunities and costs of an Ivy League education, and the obligation universities have to support and safeguard first-generation college students. Annmarie and Echo discuss inequity, community, and the need to be a promised land for one another. Additionally, Echo talks about her current health crisis and her urgent campaign to find a kidney donor. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jean Kwok immigrated from Hong Kong to Brooklyn when she was five, where she lived with her family in an unheated, roach-infested apartment.  Her 2010 book, GIRL IN TRANSLATION, is a fictionalized account of how Jean worked in a clothing factory for much of her childhood. She followed that with MAMBO IN CHINATOWN which echoed the three years that Jean worked as a professional ballroom dancer, and SEARCHING FOR SYLVIE LEE, which was an instant NYTimes bestseller and a Read with Jenna Book Club pick. Now Jean’s out with a new novel, THE LEFTOVER WOMAN, which is an “evocative family drama and a riveting mystery about the ferocious pull of motherhood.” In this episode, Jean and Annmarie talk about the immigrant experience in this country, the joy of ballroom dancing, and the emotional truth at the core of the best fiction. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Saeed Jones is a Pushcart Prize-winning writer whose first collection of poetry, PRELUDE TO BRUISE, was a 2014 finalist for the National Book Critics Circle Award. His 2019 memoir, HOW WE FIGHT FOR OUR LIVES, won the Kirkus Prize for Nonfiction. And his second poetry collection, ALIVE AT THE END OF THE WORLD, is a 2023 winner of an Anisfield-Wolf Book Award, the only national juried prize for literature that confronts racism and explores diversity. In this episode, Annmarie and Saeed talk about weaving both joy and sadness into poetry and what it means to speak each other’s language in grief. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Heather Drago is the Founder and Chief Strategist of Clever Girl Marketing and the host of the That’s a Hard No podcast. A recent cancer survivor, Heather has been on a journey lately of turning down situations, experiences, and people who do not serve her. On today’s bonus episode, Annmarie and Heather discuss how to set healthy boundaries, saying NO, and what might be possible when we make a little more room for ourselves in these busy and hectic days. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In both fiction and memoir, William Dameron writes about coming out as a gay man, and what it might look like to start again with a great love affair in the second half of life. Dameron is the award-winning author of THE LIE, A MEMOIR OF TWO MARRIAGES, CATFISHING & COMING OUT. His most recent project, THE WAY LIFE SHOULD BE, is a novel, and it’s out now. In this episode, Bill and Annmarie talk about second-chance love, the various delights of both fiction and nonfiction, and why Annmarie needs to stop using idunno1234 for all her passwords. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

At the end of the Vietnam War, when Beth Nguyen was eight months old, she and her family fled Saigon for America, but Beth’s mother stayed behind. In this episode, Annmarie and Beth discuss OWNER OF A LONELY HEART, Beth’s recent memoir. They talk about the uncertainty of growing up without a strong tie to your biological mother, and the way other people can step in to fill that void. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices