The Intuitive Customer - Helping You Improve Your Customer Experience To Gain Growth

Customer satisfaction in the US has just suffered its sharpest fall this century outside of COVID. Complaints are at record levels. And corporate profits? Also at record highs. Those three things aren't supposed to happen at the same time. Friend of the show Forrest Morgeson, Director of Research at the American Customer Satisfaction Index (ACSI), returns to help Colin Shaw and Professor Ryan Hamilton make sense of it. Ryan asks a question that changes how all three of them look at customer experience. If he's right, the declining scores aren't a failure at all. If he's right, the declining scores a failure at all. They might be a choice. Best Quote from the Episode: "We've built up a reservoir of goodwill with our customers. And it's going to last a while... But that reservoir won't last forever." — Forrest Morgeson Key Takeaways: - Why satisfaction and profits are moving in opposite directions, and what it reveals about how executives really see customer experience.- The reframe from Ryan that Colin hasn't been able to stop thinking about. - Why a $320 TV that beats a 1997 model in every way still scores lower on satisfaction. - What the cruise industry tells us about how far companies can push their customers, and why Colin booked one anyway. - Is AI to blame for the decline? Forrest's answer may not be the one you expect. Why You Should Listen: If you've ever wondered why billions spent on customer experience haven't moved the national scores, this episode offers an uncomfortable explanation. It's a candid conversation with the person who knows the ACSI data better than almost anyone, and it may change how you think about your own CX budget. Resources Mentioned Colin Shaw - https://www.linkedin.com/in/colinrjshaw/ Professor Ryan Hamilton - http://linkedin.com/in/ryan-hamilton-49b3321 Forrest Morgeson, Director of Research, ACSI - https://www.linkedin.com/in/forrestmorgeson/ American Customer Satisfaction Index: explore company and industry scores - https://www.theacsi.org ACSI Q2 2026 national results: "Economic Alarm Bells are Blasting" - https://theacsi.com/news-and-resources/press-releases/2026/08/11/press-release-national-acsi-q2-2026/ ACSI Q1 2026 national results: complaints up 16% in a single quarter - https://theacsi.com/news-and-resources/press-releases/2026/05/12/press-release-national-acsi-q1-2026/ About the Guest: Forrest Morgeson is Director of Research at the American Customer Satisfaction Index and Associate Professor of Marketing at Michigan State University. The ACSI has tracked US customer satisfaction since 1994, and Forrest's research ties those scores to company and economic outcomes. About the Hosts: Colin Shaw is a LinkedIn 'Top Voice' (https://www.linkedin.com/newsletters/6592050440320368642/) with a massive 286,000 followers and 89,000 subscribers to his 'Why Customers Buy' (https://www.linkedin.com/newsletters/why-customers-buy-6592050440320368642/) newsletter. Shaw is named one of the world's 'Top 150 Business Influencers' by LinkedIn. His company, Beyond Philosophy (https://beyondphilosophy.com/) LLC, has been selected four times by the Financial Times as a top management consultancy. Shaw is co-host of the top 1.5% podcast 'The Intuitive Customer' (https://beyondphilosophy.com/podcasts/), with over 600,000 downloads, and author of eight best-sellers on customer experience. Shaw is a sought-after keynote speaker. Follow Colin on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/colinrjshaw/ Ryan Hamilton is a Professor of Marketing at Emory University's Goizueta Business School and co-author of the book 'The Intuitive Customer'. An award-winning teacher and researcher in consumer psychology, he has been named one of Poets & Quants' "World's Best 40 B-School Profs Under 40." His research focuses on how brands, prices, and choice architecture influence shopper decision-making, and his findings have been published in top academic journals and covered by major media outlets like The New York Times and CNN. His work highlights how psychology can help firms better understand and serve their customers. Ryan's new book was launched in June 2025 called "The Growth Dilemma: Managing Your Brand When Different Customers Want Different Things" (https://store.hbr.org/product/the-growth-dilemma-managing-your-brand-when-different-customers-want-different-things/10746), Harvard Business Press. Follow Ryan on LinkedIn: http://linkedin.com/in/ryan-hamilton-49b3321 Subscribe & FollowApple Podcasts - https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-intuitive-customer-helping-you-improve-your/id1319228135 Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/1Jqx6D32nGurAqVXZ6vAEE?si=ace8c990b8254ec5

Customer experience has a credibility problem, and it isn't the ideas. Forrester has found that over half of CX teams can't prove the ROI of their own projects — and predicts one in five CX programs will simply vanish as a result. Colin Shaw and Professor Ryan Hamilton sit down with the person who built the opposite case. Maersk Line, the world's largest container shipping company, conducted one of the most successful CX implementations Colin has seen in over twenty-four years in this business — a 40-point Net Promoter Score lift. That translated into a 10% rise in shipping volumes. The project leader, Michel Patterson, wasn't a customer experience professional. Her background was Lean Six Sigma and statistics, and she built the entire program without ever opening a CX textbook.  What she did instead is the part worth stealing — including one leadership decision that should have sunk the whole initiative, and didn't. Best Quote from the Episode: "I really had to go in with sound research to show that this was true. This is founded in science. This is about a sound business strategy." — Michelle Patterson Key Takeaways: Why the person behind one of the best CX turnarounds Colin has seen had never worked in customer experience before. The move Colin made before Maersk had even agreed to the pitch — and why it ended the argument on the spot. The leadership call that should have killed the whole program, and instead created a groundswell nobody expected. Why having almost no budget turned into the project's biggest advantage. The unglamorous governance structure quietly doing more work than any dashboard — and why most organizations skip it. Why You Should Listen: If you've ever sat in a budget meeting unable to answer "what did this actually return," this episode is the corrective. It's not a framework pitched by consultants — it's the inside account of how one practitioner built the business case CX teams are still failing to build, nearly three years after Forrester first raised the alarm.  Resources Mentioned  Colin Shaw - https://www.linkedin.com/in/colinrjshaw/  Professor Ryan Hamilton - http://linkedin.com/in/ryan-hamilton-49b3321  Connect with Michelle Patterson on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelpatterson/  Beyond Philosophy — Maersk Line case study (NPS up 40 points in 30 months, 10% rise in shipping volumes): https://beyondphilosophy.com/about/case-studies/maersk-line/  Forrester — 54% of CX teams can't prove project ROI; one in five CX programs predicted to disappear: https://www.forrester.com/blogs/predictions-2023-customer-experience-cx  CX Network, State of CX 2026 — demonstrating ROI and finding budget remain the top two barriers for CX practitioners: https://www.cxnetwork.com/cx-experience/articles/why-cx-budgets-are-won-at-mid-year-not-year-end  Medallia, 2026 State of Customer Experience Report — 66% of practitioners believe experience improved last year; only 17% of consumers agree: https://www.medallia.com/press-release/medallia-releases-2026-state-of-customer-experience-report/  About the Hosts: Colin Shaw is a LinkedIn 'Top Voice' with a massive 286,000 followers and 89,000 subscribers to his 'Why Customers Buy' newsletter. Shaw is named one of the world's 'Top 150 Business Influencers' by LinkedIn. His company, Beyond Philosophy LLC, has been selected four times by the Financial Times as a top management consultancy. Shaw is co-host of the top 1.5% podcast 'The Intuitive Customer'—with over 760,000 downloads—and author of seven best-sellers on customer experience. Shaw is a sought-after keynote speaker. Follow Colin on LinkedIn.  Ryan Hamilton is a Professor of Marketing at Emory University's Goizueta Business School and co-author of the book 'The Intuitive Customer'. An award-winning teacher and researcher in consumer psychology, he has been named one of Poets & Quants' "World's Best 40 B-School Profs Under 40." His research focuses on how brands, prices, and choice architecture influence shopper decision-making, and his findings have been published in top academic journals and covered by major media outlets like The New York Times and CNN. His work highlights how psychology can help firms better understand and serve their customers. Ryan's new book was launched in June 2025 called "The Growth Dilemma: Managing Your Brand When Different Customers Want Different Things" Harvard Business Press Follow Ryan on LinkedIn.   Subscribe & Follow  Apple Podcasts Spotify  

Before his first trip to Japan, Colin asked his mobile provider's chatbot one simple question — and the confident answer it gave him could have cost him a small fortune. It's a two-minute story, and it cracks open something much bigger.  In this episode, Colin Shaw and Professor Ryan Hamilton dig into why so many AI rollouts quietly make the customer experience worse, not better. Colin is convinced we've seen this movie before. Ryan brings a framework to the table — and Colin tells him, on air, exactly where he thinks it falls short. If you're putting AI anywhere near your customers, this is the conversation to have before you write a single prompt. Best Quote from the Episode: "There's nothing new under the sun — and we're rushing headlong into cementing poor experiences." — Colin Shaw What We Get Into: The chatbot exchange that made Colin screenshot his own phone provider — and what it revealed about nearly every AI rollout happening right now. Why the real culprit isn't the technology — and the uncomfortable question most leaders never stop to ask. "Inside out" vs. "outside in": the four ways an organization can relate to its customers, and how to tell which one you're really in. The framework Ryan swears by for deploying AI — and the gap Colin thinks it leaves wide open. The one thing you must do before you write a single prompt — and why almost nobody does it. Why You Should Listen: Because "should we use AI?" is the wrong question — and it's the one most leaders are stuck on. In fifteen minutes, Colin and Ryan turn it into the questions that actually protect your brand. Come for the chatbot story; stay for the argument that follows. Resources Mentioned Revolutionize Your Customer Experience (Palgrave Macmillan): https://beyondphilosophy.com/books/ Ayelet Israeli, Harvard Business School — Israeli, Ayelet, (2025) "Generative AI in Marketing," Harvard Business Impact, 526022-PDF-ENG https://hbsp.harvard.edu/product/526024-PDF-ENG  American Customer Satisfaction Index (ACSI): https://theacsi.org/news-and-resources/press-releases/2026/02/10/press-release-national-acsi-q4-2025/ About the Hosts: Colin Shaw is a LinkedIn 'Top Voice' with a massive 286,000 followers and 89,000 subscribers to his 'Why Customers Buy' newsletter. Shaw is named one of the world's 'Top 150 Business Influencers' by LinkedIn. His company, Beyond Philosophy LLC, has been selected four times by the Financial Times as a top management consultancy. Shaw is co-host of the top 1.5% podcast 'The Intuitive Customer'—with over 720,000 downloads—and author of eight best-sellers on customer experience. Shaw is a sought-after keynote speaker. Follow Colin on LinkedIn. Ryan Hamilton is a Professor of Marketing at Emory University's Goizueta Business School and co-author of the book 'The Intuitive Customer'. An award-winning teacher and researcher in consumer psychology, he has been named one of Poets & Quants' "World's Best 40 B-School Profs Under 40." His research focuses on how brands, prices, and choice architecture influence shopper decision-making, and his findings have been published in top academic journals and covered by major media outlets like The New York Times and CNN. His work highlights how psychology can help firms better understand and serve their customers. Ryan's new book was launched in June 2025 called "The Growth Dilemma: Managing Your Brand When Different Customers Want Different Things" Harvard Business Press Follow Ryan on LinkedIn. Subscribe & Follow Apple Podcasts Spotify  

Colin asked his AI assistant one simple question — what time the film started — and it answered, confidently, wrong. A small thing. But it's the crack that reveals something much bigger. A backlash against AI is building: data-center protests, job fears, "AI slop" everywhere. In this episode, Colin Shaw and Professor Ryan Hamilton ask the question most leaders are missing — what happens when that backlash reaches your customer experience? The answer runs through a psychological trap called the halo effect, a word you won't forget ("enshittification"), and one uncomfortable truth: the brands that win won't be the ones using the most AI. Best Quote from the Episode: "The best practice is this: you tell a customer when they're talking to AI, and you tell them when they're not." — Colin Shaw Key Takeaways: Why one bad AI moment can poison trust in your entire brand — the halo effect. "Enshittification": how AI deployed to cut costs quietly makes the experience worse. The transparency line every company will soon have to draw — tell people when it's AI. The real danger of AI slop isn't bad content — it's "voluminous mediocrity." Why You Should Listen: "Should we use AI?" is the wrong question. This episode gives you the right ones — where AI genuinely serves your customer, and where it quietly erodes trust — plus a way to think about it that protects your brand instead of gambling with it. Fifteen minutes now could save you a very public, very expensive mistake. Resources Mentioned Data Center Watch — local opposition blocked or delayed $98B of US data-center projects in Q2 2025: https://www.datacenterwatch.org/q22025 eMarketer — visible AI in marketing is four times more likely to cost brands trust than build it (Klaviyo & Datalily study): https://www.emarketer.com/content/visible-ai-marketing-four-times-more-likely-cost-brands-trust-than-build Emplifi — more than half of consumers would stop buying after an inauthentic experience: https://emplifi.io/press/emplifi-survey-digital-authenticity-ai-report/ Cory Doctorow — the writer who coined "enshittification": https://pluralistic.net/ Ryan Hamilton, The Growth Dilemma (Harvard Business Press): https://store.hbr.org/product/the-growth-dilemma Duolingo's "AI-first" backlash — Fortune: https://fortune.com/2025/06/09/duolingo-ceo-surprised-backlash-ai-first-company-announcement/ About the Hosts: Colin Shaw is a LinkedIn 'Top Voice' with a massive 286,000 followers and 89,000 subscribers to his 'Why Customers Buy' newsletter. Shaw is named one of the world's 'Top 150 Business Influencers' by LinkedIn. His company, Beyond Philosophy LLC, has been selected four times by the Financial Times as a top management consultancy. Shaw is co-host of the top 1.5% podcast 'The Intuitive Customer'—with over 600,000 downloads—and author of eight best-sellers on customer experience. Shaw is a sought-after keynote speaker. Follow Colin on LinkedIn. Ryan Hamilton is a Professor of Marketing at Emory University's Goizueta Business School and co-author of the book 'The Intuitive Customer'. An award-winning teacher and researcher in consumer psychology, he has been named one of Poets & Quants' "World's Best 40 B-School Profs Under 40." His research focuses on how brands, prices, and choice architecture influence shopper decision-making, and his findings have been published in top academic journals and covered by major media outlets like The New York Times and CNN. His work highlights how psychology can help firms better understand and serve their customers. Ryan's new book was launched in June 2025 called "The Growth Dilemma: Managing Your Brand When Different Customers Want Different Things" Harvard Business Press Follow Ryan on LinkedIn. Subscribe & Follow Apple Podcasts Spotify  

Colin Shaw and Professor Ryan Hamilton tackle the two processes that decide everything in customer experience: how memories get in, and how they get out. If you haven't heard Parts 1 and 2, start there — Colin and Ryan build on the "memories are structured like fishing nets" idea throughout. Here's the uncomfortable truth at the center of this episode: a customer's memory of your experience isn't a recording you can trust. It's reconstructed, emotional, and easy to distort — and most organizations are accidentally reinforcing the worst version of it. In this episode, Colin and Ryan cover: Storing memories — why memories live in network structures Retrieval — the Zeigarnik effect (why an active goal sharpens memory, and why it vanishes once the goal is met), Forgetting — storage decay, the biology of chemical traces The danger zone: misinformation — Elizabeth Loftus's famous "smashed vs. hit" car-crash study The "So What" — why making customers repeat their complaint makes worse memories,  Key quote: "We don't choose between experiences. We choose between the memory of an experience." — Professor Daniel Kahneman Resources mentioned: Elizabeth Loftus on the misinformation effect: SimplyPsychology Learn about Memory Maker Training and customer science: email [email protected] Explore all episodes, free tools, and resources: beyondphilosophy.com/podcast About the Hosts: Colin Shaw is a LinkedIn 'Top Voice' with a massive 286,000 followers and 87,000 subscribers to his 'Why Customers Buy' newsletter. Shaw is named one of the world's 'Top 150 Business Influencers' by LinkedIn. His company, Beyond Philosophy LLC, has been selected four times by the Financial Times as a top management consultancy. Shaw is co-host of the top 1.5% podcast 'The Intuitive Customer'—with over 700,000 downloads—and author of eight best-sellers on customer experience. Shaw is a sought-after keynote speaker. Follow Colin on LinkedIn. Ryan Hamilton is a Professor of Marketing at Emory University's Goizueta Business School and co-author of 'The Intuitive Customer' book. An award-winning teacher and researcher in consumer psychology, he has been named one of Poets & Quants' "World's Best 40 B-School Profs Under 40." His research focuses on how brands, prices, and choice architecture influence shopper decision-making, and his findings have been published in top academic journals and covered by major media outlets like The New York Times and CNN. His work highlights how psychology can help firms better understand and serve their customers. Ryan has a new book launch in June 2025 called "The Growth Dilemma: Managing Your Brand When Different Customers Want Different Things" Harvard Business Press Follow Ryan on LinkedIn. Subscribe & Follow Apple Podcasts Spotify