DEPTH Work: A Holistic Mental Health Podcast

I speak with sociologist Neil Gong about his book: Sons, Daughters, and Sidewalk Psychotics, which explores how mental health care in the U.S. is deeply shaped by class divides. We talk about the legacy of deinstitutionalization, how public systems rely on what he calls “tolerant containment” while elite institutions often impose surveillance and control, and the different ways each system can fail. Neil and I dig into housing-first programs, clinician burnout, and RFK’s vision for therapeutic farms. We also unpack what Neil calls the “Frankenstein monster” created by the uneasy mix of civil libertarian ideals and austerity policies. The conversation ends with reflections on political education, peer-led alternatives, and how we can hold space for complex and even opposing perspectives in the fight for better mental health systems.In this episode we discuss:class comparisons in of Public vs. private mental health care models in Los AngelesHistory and impacts of deinstitutionalizationTolerant containment in public systems vs. surveillance in elite settingsWhat we can do to improve quality of careRFK’s therapeutic farms and proposed health policiesThe need for peer support and user-led initiatives in mental health reformThe “Frankenstein” fusion of civil liberties and austerity politicsInstitutional harm reduction, defunding social programs and its potential backlashTeaching political educationBioNeil Gong is assistant professor of sociology at the University of California, San Diego. He is the author of Sons, Daughters and Sidewalk Psychotics: Mental Illness and Homelessness in Los Angeles. His public commentary has appeared in venues like the Washington Post, the Atlantic, and the Los Angeles TimesLinksNeil’s Website: https://www.neilgong.com/Book: Sons, Daughters and Sidewalk Psychotics: https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/S/bo212067953.htmlResources:Find videos and bonus episodes: ⁠DEPTHWORK.SUBSTACK.COM⁠Get the book: ⁠⁠Mad Studies Reader: Interdisciplinary Innovations in Mental Health⁠Become a member: ⁠The Institute for the Development of Human Arts⁠Train with us: ⁠Transformative Mental Health Core CurriculumSessions & Information about the host: ⁠⁠JazmineRussell.com⁠⁠Disclaimer: The DEPTH Work Podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Any information on this podcast in no way to be construed or substituted as psychological counseling, psychotherapy, mental health counseling, or any other type of therapy or medical advice.

“One reason why it can feel so hard to listen to your body is because it is not normalized to move in a variety of ways that you would want to. There are certain ways of moving that are allowed or socially accepted but others are very rare to see. Therefore, it makes a lot of sense that we don't know what our body wants or can't listen to it because we always shut it down.” - David BantjeIn this episode, I’m joined by natural movement practitioner, and my loving partner, David Bantje. In this episode, he offers a refreshing, intuitive reframe on how we can shift our relationship to movement for a more liberated , and playful life. Rather than treating movement as a chore, isolated workout, or something we only do in designated spaces, David invites us to see movement as a birthright—something our bodies crave and have evolved to do in diverse, dynamic ways. He discusses how mainstream exercise culture, with its narrow focus and rigid intensity, can leave us disconnected from the deeper intelligence of our bodies. Instead, natural movement emphasizes accessibility, variety, injury prevention, and playfulness, allowing us to reconnect and reclaim our capacity for taking risks, curiosity, and aliveness. This isn’t about perfection or discipline, but about attunement: giving our bodies the space to lead.In this episode we discuss:How chronic pain and injuries "stack up" from habitual postures and sedentary lifestylesWhat natural movement is, and how it helps realign us with what our bodies evolved to doThe limits of conventional fitness culture and why high-intensity, short bursts of exercise can do more harm than goodThe power of movement snacks—simple, frequent movements throughout the day—to support flexibility, awareness, and healingMovement as medicine in the context of illness, disability, and injury (including David’s experience with a herniated disc)Relearning how to listen to your body, even when it doesn’t communicate in languageWhy reclaiming natural movement can be a path not only to health—but to joy, agency, and freedomBioDavid Bantje is a movement practitioner, teacher, and facilitator based in Potsdam, Germany. His interests span movement disciplines such as natural movement, parkour, dance, somatic movement, running, climbing, and their interconnections. He researches the importance of movement for our individual lives as well as our communities, how our modern societies have affected our movement habits, and ways to reconnect to our physicality and playfulness. In 2019 and 2021 he got certifications as a MovNat Natural Movement Trainer, and has since taught movement classes and workshops on various topics. Currently, he is co-hosting Monday Motion, an open community event for freely exploring movement and dance. He just started to write a Substack called "Movement Invitations".LinksDavid's Substack: https://davidbantje.substack.com/Katie Bowman: https://www.nutritiousmovement.com/Natural Movement Classes: https://movnat.com/Resources:Get the book: ⁠⁠⁠Mad Studies Reader: Interdisciplinary Innovations in Mental Health⁠⁠Become a member: ⁠⁠The Institute for the Development of Human Arts⁠⁠Train with us: ⁠⁠Transformative Mental Health Core Curriculum⁠Sessions & Information about the host: ⁠⁠⁠JazmineRussell.com⁠⁠⁠Disclaimer: The DEPTH Work Podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Any information on this podcast in no way to be construed or substituted as psychological counseling, psychotherapy, mental health counseling, or any other type of therapy or medical advice.

“Your questioning and critiquing is everything that is needed for 2025 and beyond. And if or when it is construed [by the system] as as a deficiency, unprofessionalism, or ineptitude, I hope that by priming people to keep their eyes open for those responses, it can be more of a collective yawn.” - Rupi LeghaIn this episode I’m joined by Rupi Legha, psychiatrist, educator, and scholar-activist—whose work radically interrogates the role of psychiatry in upholding racial injustice. Together, we explore what it means to be an anti-racist clinician in a field that silences dissent, punishes disclosure, and pathologizes defiance—especially in Black, Brown, and Indigenous folks. We talk about the emotional and ethical toll of navigating psychiatric training while attempting to stay true to liberatory values. We talk about forced restraint, overmedication, and the ways psychiatry can reinforce white supremacist ideology in both overt and covert ways. And we ask the hard questions: What is worth saving in psychiatry? What should be dismantled? What might take its place?Also in this episode:deciding how much to disclose about your own lived experiences with mental health as a clinicianwhat psychiatric residency training is actually likeexperiencing moral injurythe racist and coercive practices deeply rooted in the history of psychiatryadvice for younger cliniciansnavigating family dynamics in child crisis carethe future of psychiatry as a professionanti-racist training for cliniciansBioDr. Rupinder K. Legha is a double board-certified child, adolescent, and adult psychiatrist, educator, and independent scholar-activist. She is the founder of the Antiracism in Mental Health Fellowship and a nationally recognized leader working at the intersection of structural trauma, racial justice, and youth mental health. Dr. Legha’s clinical and scholarly work challenges how psychiatric systems interpret defiance and distress—especially in Black, Brown, and Indigenous youth—and seeks to transform the profession through person-centered, antiracist, and liberatory care.Links: Rupi’s Website: https://rupileghamd.com/Shield Act: https://rupileghamd.com/shieldactAnti-Racist Fellowship: https://edu.rupileghamd.com/fellowship-sales-pageHistory of ODD Diagnosis video : https://rupileghamd.com/speaking/v/oddResources:Get the book: ⁠⁠Mad Studies Reader: Interdisciplinary Innovations in Mental Health⁠Become a member: ⁠The Institute for the Development of Human Arts⁠Train with us: ⁠Transformative Mental Health Core CurriculumSessions & Information about the host: ⁠⁠JazmineRussell.com⁠⁠Disclaimer: The DEPTH Work Podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Any information on this podcast in no way to be construed or substituted as psychological counseling, psychotherapy, mental health counseling, or any other type of therapy or medical advice.

20% of the population is on the hypermobile spectrum and can struggle with chronic pain because of it. At the more extreme end of the spectrum is Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome (EDS), a genetic disorder that affects not not muscles and joints but the whole body in ongoing feedback loops. Perhaps most significantly, 80% of people with EDS have generalized anxiety. Most doctors or practitioners seeing people with vague symptoms from chronic pain, allergies, SIBO, IBS, brain fog, POTS, autoimmunity, anxiety, and more are often unaware that EDS can be the cause. Even less know about holistic ways to intervene in the cycle of dysregulation. So I spoke with a specialist in EDS, Dr. Derik Andersen to get some answers.In this episode we discuss:what is Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome?the mast cell activation and EDS cyclewhat are the symptoms and how can someone test themselves?why are anxiety and nervous system issues associated with it?research on the Autonomic Nervous System and HRVneurodivergence and EDSholistic treatment approachesfocused shockwave therapynutritional interventionsbreathwork for the nervous sustemwhat practitioners should knowBioDerik S. Anderson, DC, CPT, CSN is the Clinic Director of the Muscle and Joint Clinic in Northern California. He helps his patients be healthier by utilizing his education and personal and professional backgrounds. Dr. Anderson grew up wanting to help people and initially planned to go to business school to work in energy conservation. But, after a good friend’s life was positively changed by chiropractic care, he had a change of heart. His friend spent two years with horrific intestinal problems and saw over a dozen providers, but no one could help her – until she saw a chiropractor. The chiropractor knew that the vertebra and muscles around them affected the nerves that controlled the intestines. After treatment, she was no longer bed-ridden and went back to teaching, traveling and leading an active life. Dr. Anderson realized that health care was his calling and his passion for helping people was channeled into chiropractic.Education:Life Chiropractic College West, Doctor of ChiropracticUniversity of California, Santa Barbara, Bachelor of Arts, EconomicsCompleted more than 1,000 hours of post-doctoral educationSports Nutritionist, CertifiedPersonal Fitness Trainer, CertifiedActive Release Technique, Certified 2011FAKTR, CertifiedMyofascial Decompression, CertifiedIronman® Healthcare ProviderThe Clinic: https://musclejointclinic.com/Resources:Dr. Jessica Eccles https://www.bsms.ac.uk/about/contact-us/staff/dr-jessica-eccles.aspxhttps://tmsforacure.org/ Links: Find videos and bonus episodes: ⁠DEPTHWORK.SUBSTACK.COM⁠Get the book: ⁠⁠Mad Studies Reader: Interdisciplinary Innovations in Mental Health⁠Become a member: ⁠The Institute for the Development of Human Arts⁠Train with us: ⁠Transformative Mental Health Core CurriculumSessions & Information about the host: ⁠⁠JazmineRussell.com⁠⁠Disclaimer: The DEPTH Work Podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Any information on this podcast in no way to be construed or substituted as psychological counseling, psychotherapy, mental health counseling, or any other type of therapy or medical advice.

Our brains are one of the most adaptable and dynamic parts of the body. Brain injuries, however, can disrupt all facets of our lives from personality to relationships to how we move through the world. Even a minor concussion can have lingering effects to mood and executive functioning and attention that can slip under the radar. On this episode, I’m joined by a lived experiencer of traumatic brain injuries, Kayleigh Stack. She shares her story, not sparing any of the ups and downs and talks about managing pain and easing the nervous system.In this episode we discuss:the lesser known impacts of traumatic brain injuriesthe importance of nervous system regulationtypes of treatments for TBIhyperbaric oxygen treatmentdealing with chronic painthe power of story and resisting reductionist narrativesBioKayleigh is an activist, artist, community steward, and medicine woman. Over the past ten years, she has orchestrated spaces for people to share recorded audios of poignant histories and stories oriented around critical social and political narratives to be presented in an Oral History Performance Initiative: The Community Storytelling Composition Project. Above all else, she believes that sharing personal stories has the power to restore humanity and resuscitate life back into one another when in need. Because “if we don’t share your stories, Who will?” (Mia Mingus 2018)Most of her work focuses on socio-political discourse, drawing upon performance as a subversive tool to generate conversation around a particular poignant or charged subject. Her educational background spans degrees in Sociology from Hunter College, NY, Anthropology from SUNY New Paltz, NY, a Masters in Traditional Chinese Medicine at Pacific College of Oriental Medicine where she became a Licensed Acupuncturist, and Masters of Oral History at Columbia University. Professional accomplishments include getting onto the Cirque du Soleil roster of Circus artists in 2014, Dance Oral Historian Assistant in New York Public Library’s Library of Performing arts, Production Stage Manager with Roll the Bones Theatre at Dead Letter No. 9, Network Director of Zen Peacemakers International, and administration for a variety of reputable arts nonprofits. Currently she is Creative Learning Manager for the international civic production company, Forklift Danceworks. Outside of work, Kayleigh is often escaping into other worlds through reading, writing, or walking quietly in nature. Nowadays, mostly the latter.LinksKayleigh’s  Linktreehyperbaric oxygen meta-analysis for tbi https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10072-015-2460-2 & https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/neu.2017.5225Resources:Find videos and bonus episodes: ⁠DEPTHWORK.SUBSTACK.COM⁠Get the book: ⁠⁠Mad Studies Reader: Interdisciplinary Innovations in Mental Health⁠Become a member: ⁠The Institute for the Development of Human Arts⁠Train with us: ⁠Transformative Mental Health Core CurriculumSessions & Information about the host: ⁠⁠JazmineRussell.com⁠⁠Disclaimer: The DEPTH Work Podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Any information on this podcast in no way to be construed or substituted as psychological counseling, psychotherapy, mental health counseling, or any other type of therapy or medical advice.

“Any movement that aspires to be critical must be self-critical. There is value in approaching 'critical' not as an identity, a label, or a dividing line, but rather as a mode of engagement, as a virtue of philosophical and scientific thought. Critical psychiatry, if it is to embody this virtue, can only do so by insisting that it is a 'theory in the making' and by demonstrating continuous self-criticism, questioning, re-examination, and exploration of new possibilities.” - Awais Aftab, Conversations in Critical PsychiatryTo move beyond binaries in mental health, we must complicate questions such as: ‘to medicalize or not to medicalize?’ or ‘is it a biological or a psychological problem?’ Since psychiatrists get almost exclusively medical training, Dr. Aftab advocates for what he calls “conceptual competency,” problematizing basic assumptions about the mind and brain that can prevent clinicians from truly supporting people and safeguarding their agency. In this episode, we explore the tensions between orthodox psychiatry and its critics, the future of psychiatric diagnostics, and how learning from philosophy and neuroscience can bring fresh perspectives.In this episode we discuss: conceptual competency and challenging underlying assumptions in psychiatry ways in which critical psychiatry/psychology could benefit from being self-critical how modern neuroscience can help break down old binaries how to decide where to intervene across bio, psycho, social factors ADHD as an example of complex causal factors childhood trauma and brain/biological changes why issues in broader medical disciplines apply to psychiatry pluralism and how can disciplines can come together future of diagnostics beyond the DSM eraBioDr. Awais Aftab is clinical assistant professor of psychiatry at Case Western Reserve University and practices as a psychiatrist in Cleveland, OH, USA. His academic, educational, and public-facing work focuses on conceptual and critical issues in psychiatry. He led the interview series “Conversations in Critical Psychiatry” for Psychiatric Times, and a book adaptation has been published by Oxford University Press. He is a senior editor for the journal “Philosophy, Psychiatry, & Psychology.” He peer-reviewed work has been published in top psychiatric journals, he has written for the New York Times, and has been quoted in publications such as the LA Times, VICE News, and the Rolling Stones Magazine. He blogs online at his Substack newsletter Psychiatry at the Margins, which has more than 10,000 subscribers from 120 countries.(https://psychiatrymargins.com/).Links Awais’ Substack Conversations in Critical Psychiatry book (mentioned) The Entangled Brain by Luiz Pessoa Resources: Get the book: ⁠⁠Mad Studies Reader: Interdisciplinary Innovations in Mental Health⁠ Become a member: ⁠The Institute for the Development of Human Arts⁠ Train with us: ⁠Transformative Mental Health Core CurriculumSessions & Information about the host: ⁠⁠JazmineRussell.com⁠⁠Disclaimer: The DEPTH Work Podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Any information on this podcast in no way to be construed or substituted as psychological counseling, psychotherapy, mental health counseling, or any other type of therapy or medical advice.

“One thing that I want people to understand is that if you live in America, you live in a business and you are a customer in that business.” - Thabiso Mthimkhulu I’m really exited to have Thabiso Mthimkhulu back on the podcast for a follow up conversation. Our discussion on “Redefining Crazy” and how we think about mental health was one of the most popular episodes on Depth Work to date. In this episode, Thabiso and I talk about the roles of metaphor and symbol in the mind-body relationship in sickness and indigenous views of learning to let the body speak. He also opens up about his thoughts on the United States and his home country Eswatini. His piercing insight into the causes of division, violence, and systemic oppression in the US is a call to “remember where you come from” and your own ancestral lineages. In this episode we discuss: the role of symbol and metaphor in understanding sickness letting the body speak America’s exploitative systems and societal division Reclaiming your roots Bio: Gogo Ndlondlo (whose given birth name is Thabiso Mthimkhulu) is an Indigenous Zulu and Swazi sangoma, from the lineage of Khuzalingezwa Emzini Wamadoda— born and raised in Hlathikhulu, Swaziland. Gogo Ndlondo was raised in a family of healers who hold a great body of knowledge and wisdom of traditional African herbal and ancestral medicine. Gogo Ndlondo experienced his calling illness, ukuthwasa, as a young child — seeing spirits, hearing voices, time traveling, having visions, and prophetizing about the future. Gogo Ndlondo’s access to other realities and ancestral realms was affirmed within his cultural worldview, where his family and community recognized his soul calling as a sangoma— to continue practicing and carrying out this lineage of important healing medicine. Gogo Ndlondlo spent his life in training, and is formally engaged in a multi-year apprenticeship process, under the brilliant guidance and mentorship of Gogo Dabulamandzi in the lineage of Khuzalingezwa Emzini Wamadoda — in Barberton, South Africa. Links @thabisoheals on IG https://www.thabisoheals.com/ Resources: Get videos and bonus episodes: ⁠⁠DEPTHWORK.SUBSTACK.COM⁠⁠ Get the book: ⁠⁠⁠Mad Studies Reader: Interdisciplinary Innovations in Mental Health⁠⁠ Become a member: ⁠⁠The Institute for the Development of Human Arts⁠⁠ Train with us: ⁠⁠Transformative Mental Health Core Curriculum Sessions & Information about the host: ⁠⁠JazmineRussell.com⁠⁠ Disclaimer: The DEPTH Work Podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Any information on this podcast in no way to be construed or substituted as psychological counseling, psychotherapy, mental health counseling, or any other type of therapy or medical advice.

Building visions towards a liberatory future will take creative power, vulnerability, radical imagination, and the capacity to honor difference in all its beauty. Lyo-Demi exemplifies this courage and power in their writing and poetry: “My diagnosis of “bipolar disorder,” in my opinion, is both a sensitivity towards and reaction to traumas (both personal and systemic) that yields strength, creativity, and passion, and my diagnosis of “gender dysphoria”…well that just makes me fabulous.” (From essay: Not Confused, Not Crazy) As we ‘reinvent the world,’ many of us have to wade through the nuances of adopting or rejecting labels, and find ways to support ourselves and each other, both within and outside systems. In this episode, Lyo-Demi and I talk about DSM categories, the generative and difficult aspects of mental health concerns, and the gift and power of creativity. In this episode we discuss: the power of mutual aid and peer support reframing and depathologizing mental health diagnoses generative aspects of what gets labeled bipolar and mania honoring difference at the intersection of neurodiversity and gender queerness using creativity, graphic novels and stories to build visions toward liberation Bio Lyo-Demi Green (they/them) is a queer and non-binary writer, graphic novelist and tenured community college professor living in the San Francisco Bay Area on Ohlone Land. They have been published on Salon, The Body is Not an Apology, Foglifter, and elsewhere. They have been featured at dozens of reading series, slams, showcases, and workshops in schools, colleges, and open mics locally and across the country. They co-edited We've Been Too Patient: Voices from Radical Mental Health with Kelechi Ubozoh, published by North Atlantic Books and distributed by Penguin Random House in 2019. They authored Phoenix Song, published by Black Lawrence Press in 2022. They received a BA from Vassar College and have an MFA in Creative Writing from Mills College. LD has attended the Association of Writers and Writing Programs, was a Lambda Emerging Writers Fellow, and was selected for Tin House and Stowe Story Labs. LD’s queer and trans rom-com fantasy screenplay Journey to the Enchanted Inkwell was a finalist in several national contests. With the help of the Sequential Artists’ Workshop, they adapted this project into a YA graphic novel script. They met their collaborating artist Jamie Kiemle through the online community Kids Comics Unite. LD is a decades-long fan of graphic novels, and they have taught them for over a decade at places like the San Francisco Art Institute and others. They are represented by literary agent Jennifer Newens of Martin Literary and Media Management. Links @leoninetales on IG and Threads www.ldgreen.org http://www.ldgreen.org/graphic-novel.html https://blacklawrencepress.com/books/phoenix-song/ Not Confused, Not Crazy Essay Resources: Get videos and bonus episodes: ⁠⁠DEPTHWORK.SUBSTACK.COM⁠⁠ Get the book: ⁠⁠⁠Mad Studies Reader: Interdisciplinary Innovations in Mental Health⁠⁠ Become a member: ⁠⁠The Institute for the Development of Human Arts⁠⁠ Train with us: ⁠⁠Transformative Mental Health Core Curriculum Sessions & Information about the host: ⁠⁠JazmineRussell.com⁠⁠ Disclaimer: The DEPTH Work Podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Any information on this podcast in no way to be construed or substituted as psychological counseling, psychotherapy, mental health counseling, or any other type of therapy or medical advice.

“I wish somebody had presented these ideas that what we call mental disorders, they're not like diabetes. They're not like cancer. They're more like fever or pain. They're meaningful responses to something going on in your life. And they are part of your inner self trying to tell you to look more closely.” - Justin Garson If you’ve ever felt as though there may be a purpose or function to the experiences that get labeled as a ‘mental illness’, you’re not alone. Justin Garson spent his career advocating for the idea that madness should not be seen as purely dysfunctional, but rather that it can be an evolved signal or feature with a purpose in our lives. Rather than being a sign of a ‘broken brain’, madness may play an important protective or illuminating role in our lives. In this episode we discuss: The 1980s prozac revolution & changing landscape of mental health Why viewing madness as a dysfunction is so ubiquitous How depression or other mental health concerns can be an evolved signal or designed response to a life crisis Who gets to decide what’s functional or dysfunctional? The importance of alternative frameworks Meaningful pluralism Bio Justin is Professor of Philosophy at Hunter College and The Graduate Center, City University of New York, and a contributor for PsychologyToday.com, Aeon, and MadInAmerica.com. He writes on the philosophy of madness, evolution of the mind, and purpose in nature. He is the author of The Madness Pill: The Quest to Create Insanity and One Doctor’s Discovery that Transformed Psychiatry (St. Martin’s Press, forthcoming). He also has two recent books: Madness: A Philosophical Exploration (Oxford University Press, 2022) and The Biological Mind: A Philosophical Introduction, 2nd ed. (Routledge, 2022). Links: Website: www.justingarson.com Twitter: https://x.com/justin_garson Recent Book: Madness: A Philosophical Exploration Madness-as-Strategy as an Alternative to Psychiatry’s Dysfunction-Centered Model Resources: Get videos and bonus episodes: ⁠DEPTHWORK.SUBSTACK.COM⁠ Get the book: ⁠⁠Mad Studies Reader: Interdisciplinary Innovations in Mental Health⁠ Become a member: ⁠The Institute for the Development of Human Arts⁠ Train with us: ⁠Transformative Mental Health Core Curriculum Sessions & Information about the host: ⁠⁠JazmineRussell.com⁠⁠ Disclaimer: The DEPTH Work Podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Any information on this podcast in no way to be construed or substituted as psychological counseling, psychotherapy, mental health counseling, or any other type of therapy or medical advice.

Have you ever felt frustrated by the narrow, rigid ways we’re encouraged to think about mental health and experiences considered ‘madness’? Whether you are a person with mental health experiences and feel discouraged by the lack of options or support, a family member or clinician concerned by the way people are treated, a scholar who wants to think outside the box, or an activist combatting discrimination, you may be excited to hear about a field of study. In this very special episode, Dr. Alisha Ali, Dr. Bradley Lewis, and I discuss the emerging field of Mad Studies and the way it challenges conventional mental health narratives. IDHA is hosting an online event December 8th from 12-6pm EST for those who want to dive into this field, get tickets here: https://www.idha-nyc.org/mad-studies-symposium In this episode we discuss: what is mad studies and how is it different from anti-psychiatry and critical psychiatry/psychology? our cultural unquestioning reverence for science and how it deters important scholarship how specialization in academia can lead to reductive research and scholarship The power of language to shape how we think about madness and what’s ‘normal’ connections between activism and academia biologizing ‘normal’, the hyperfocus on the brain, and neurodiversity movements the struggle against sanism across social movements Alisha Ali is an Associate Professor in the Department of Applied Psychology at New York University where she heads the Advocacy and Community-Based Trauma Studies (ACTS) Lab. Her research examines the mental health effects of various forms of oppression... including racism and poverty. She is co-editor (with Bradley Lewis and Jazmine Russell) of the upcoming book “The Mad Studies Reader” (Routledge Press). Her current projects are investigating the effects of empowerment-based interventions for domestic violence survivors and low-income high school students, and the impact of an arts-based intervention to treat the effects of traumatic stress in military veterans. Alisha received her PhD in Applied Cognitive Science from the University of Toronto and completed her postdoctoral fellowship training in the Department of Psychiatry at the University of Toronto Bradley Lewis is a psychotherapist/psychiatrist in private practice and a humanities professor at New York University. He is devoted to enriching everyday life and clinical practice through integration with the arts, humanities, and cultural/political/religious study. In addition to co-editing the Mad Studies Reader, his books include Experiencing Epiphanies in Literature and Cinema; Narrative Psychiatry; and Moving Beyond Prozac, DSM, and the New Psychiatry: Birth of Postpsychiatry Jazmine Russell is the co-founder of the Institute for the Development of Human Arts, a transformative mental health educator, trauma survivor, and host of "Depth Work: A Holistic Mental Health Podcast." She is an interdisciplinary scholar of Mad Studies, Critical Psychology, and Neuroscience, and a postgraduate student at the Berlin School of Mind and Brain. Jazmine has worked in the mental health system as a crisis counselor and later as a peer counselor specializing in working with those experiencing 'psychosis.' Becoming disillusioned with the system, she became a grassroots mental health organizer and holistic counselor across many modalities since 2015. JOIN US FOR THE MAD STUDIES SYMPOSIUM ONLINE DECEMBER 8th  Links The Mad Studies Reader - https://www.routledge.com/Mad-Studies-Reader-Interdisciplinary-Innovations-in-Mental-Health/Lewis-Ali-Russell/p/book/9780367709082  https://imsj.org/what-is-mad-studies/ Sessions & Information about the host: ⁠⁠JazmineRussell.com⁠⁠ Disclaimer: The DEPTH Work Podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Any information on this podcast in no way to be construed or substituted as psychological counseling, psychotherapy, mental health counseling, or any other type of therapy or medical advice.

In everyday life, we might label irrational, illogical, or absurd beliefs as ‘delusional’, and dismiss the person who expresses them on these grounds. This tendency is common when it comes to conspiracy beliefs or beliefs held by individuals labeled with psychosis, where such views are frequently pathologized. But can beliefs themselves really be pathological? What if they can also be meaningful, informative, and important? We all hold some beliefs that, to others, might appear “delusional.” Communicating more effectively with those whose beliefs differ radically from our own is a crucial skill to develop. Dr. Lisa Bortolotti, philosopher and author of “Why Delusions Matter” advocates for a more compassionate approach—one that respects the agency of those with unconventional beliefs. Especially in a world of increasing political divide and a loss of trust in our broader systems, media, and government, it’s crucial to be able to find some common ground and develop the capacity to listen well. In this episode we discuss: The roles of curiosity and compassion when engaging with those who hold fundamentally different beliefs Why delusions in clinical and everyday contexts share significant similarities How conspiracy thinking often stems from a legitimate loss of trust and can serve adaptive purposes The potential value and meaning embedded in delusional beliefs Why epistemic justice is essential Lisa Bortolotti is Professor of Philosophy at the University of Birmingham, working in the philosophy of psychology and interested in belief, agency, self-knowledge, and mental health. Her latest book is Why Delusions Matter (Bloomsbury, 2023) and she is the editor in chief of *Philosophical Psychology* (a Taylor and Francis journal). Lisa is the founder of the Imperfect Cognitions blog, and of The Philosophy Garden, a virtual philosophy museum gathering resources to bring philosophy to everyone. Currently, Lisa is co-investigator in project EPIC, a six-year project funded by a Wellcome Discovery Award, investigating epistemic injustice in healthcare. Links Launch of project EPIC: What interests me about epistemic injustice. (Project EPIC, 2024). Brief video. Delusions and Philosophy (Awais Aftab's Mixed Bag Psychiatry at the Margins series, 2023). Online article. How to give young people agency in mental health. (McPin Foundation, 2021). Podcast. Why Delusions Matter by Lisa Bortolotti Resources: Find videos and bonuses: DEPTHWORK.SUBSTACK.COM Get the book: ⁠Mad Studies Reader: Interdisciplinary Innovations in Mental Health The Institute for the Development of Human Arts Transformative Mental Health Core Curriculum Sessions & Information about the host: ⁠⁠JazmineRussell.com⁠⁠ Disclaimer: The DEPTH Work Podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Any information on this podcast in no way to be construed or substituted as psychological counseling, psychotherapy, mental health counseling, or any other type of therapy or medical advice.

“It is valuable for our culture and our society to work towards disability rights, disability justice, and a disability inclusive lens, because it's going to benefit all of us.”- Sarah Napoli Each of us, at some point in life, will have some type of disabling experience whether that’s from natural aging, illness, burnout, trauma, accidents or structural factors. Building communities of care and mentorship, and undoing ablism is integral to our collective sustainability and wellbeing. In today’s episode, disability activist Sarah Napoli and I talk about visible vs. invisible disability, why chronic illness and experiences like long covid count as disability, and the bridges between mental health and disability communities. In this episode we discuss: the importance of disability identity and mentorship why ablism isn’t just about access invisible disability and overcoming the ‘pity’ or ‘superhero’ narratives why disability rights benefit all of us owning your own narrative why chronic illness communities should start to use disability and power in unity learning different types of rest dating and having relationships with disabilities difference between disability rights, disability inclusion, and disability justice mental health and disability intersections passions hobbies and the things that make us feel alive - bridging hip hop and activism Bio Sarah Napoli has been teaching and training in the field of social justice, diversity and inclusion, intercultural relations, advocacy and human rights for over 20 years. She is originally from northwest Indiana, outside of Chicago and has called Japan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Washington, Vermont, England, New York and currently New Jersey home. She is the learning services director at the Disability & Philanthropy Forum. From 2019-2023, she acted as the lead disability inclusion project officer within the people and culture Diversity, Inclusion, and Equity team at Open Society Foundations, where she developed and facilitated disability inclusion learning and embedded proactive disability inclusive practices throughout the global network. Sarah spent many years teaching and conducting training on social justice and advocacy in higher education and nonprofits, most recently as the director for the inaugural Center for Inclusion at Manhattanville College and as the assistant head of Goodricke College at the University of York, England. She specializes in facilitating engaging workshops and designing curriculum that challenge and encourage participants to foster a culture of inclusion. She holds two MA degrees, one in social justice in intercultural relations from the SIT graduate institute and one in applied human rights from the University of York. She identifies as a proud disabled person and enjoys chatting about Geek culture—all things fantasy and sci/fi and her former life as a hip hop researcher and dancer. Her research on how hip hop creates human rights identities was recently published in the University of Michigan press text, For the Culture: Hip Hop and the Fight for Social Justice. She has conducted workshops and training all over the USA and in the world, including Japan, Guatemala, throughout Europe, South Africa, and Canada. Sarah's LinkedIn The Disabled Mindset - Embracing My Disability Identity For the Culture: Hip Hop and the Fight for Social Justice Links Skin tooth and bone by Sins Invalid Black Disability Politics book The Future is Disabled book Institute for the Development of Human Arts: www.IDHA-nyc.org Get The Mad Studies Reader: Interdisciplinary Innovations in Mental Health Sessions & Information about the host: ⁠⁠JazmineRussell.com⁠⁠ Disclaimer: The DEPTH Work Podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Any information on this podcast in no way to be construed or substituted as psychological counseling, psychotherapy, mental health counseling, or any other type of therapy or medical advice.

“As long as we insist that we absolutely don't want dark, freaky, unpleasant things, a major part of our full spectrum human curiosity gets cut off, repressed, denied, and made unconscious.”- Carolyn Lovewell, Existential Kink With the rise in popularity of shadow work, inner child work, and healing unconscious pain and trauma, many are eager to explore the depths of our wholeness. However, a willingness to do this work requires an acceptance of the dark, “yucky”, and uncomfortable things that can be hard for us to forgive or acknowledge in ourselves. Carolyn Lovewell wrote “Existential Kink,” a hallmark book in this area drawing on jungian psychology and western esoteric traditions. She explains the importance of ‘unironically’ embracing the parts of ourselves that may have been repressed - not to change ourselves, or spiritually bypass - but to truly accept the full spectrum of our wholeness In this episode we discuss: the windy path from academia to magic links between existential kink & erotic energy embracing the parts of ourselves that are hungry for experiences of pain shadow work, the unconscious, and repression dealing with a divided will a short intro shadow work practice Bio Dr. Carolyn Lovewell has helped thousands of people around the world transform their lives for the way-better using shadow work and applied occult philosophy.  She's the author of the cult-classic creativity guide, Awaken Your Genius, and the book that rocked the coaching world, Existential Kink: unmask your shadow and embrace your power.  She's the co-founder of the world's only in-person Mystery School in the Western Esoteric Tradition, Sleep Over Mystery School. She earned her doctorate in Critical and Cultural Studies at the University of Pittsburgh, and resides in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania with her family.  She offers online courses and memberships in magick and transformation via the Immortal College. Dr. Carolyn Lovewell adept of the Immortal College leader of Sleep Over Mystery School author of Existential Kink: unmask your shadows and embrace your power co-host of The Sleep Over Podcast with Carolyn and Laila Free Breathwork Practice: https://depthwork.substack.com/p/free-meditations-practices-and-workbooks Sessions & Information about the host: ⁠⁠JazmineRussell.com⁠⁠ Disclaimer: The DEPTH Work Podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Any information on this podcast in no way to be construed or substituted as psychological counseling, psychotherapy, mental health counseling, or any other type of therapy or medical advice.

Commercialized psychiatric and psychological knowledge encourages us to think of ourselves primarily as consumers and promotes a set of values that suggest some of us have minds or brains that should be ‘fixed’ with particular products or services. These neoliberal values have led to a great deal of institutional corruption and also has been exported beyond the western world across the globe. Many researchers, clinicians and activists have rallied together to fight against medicalized global mental health initiatives which promote a narrow westernized notion of wellness and defined how treatment should look, often at the expense of local healing practices and without the participation of people with lived experience. Justin Karter, couseling psychologist, and research news editor at Mad In America, has spent a long time advocating for epistemic justice in the psy disciplines and helping to expose practices and policies that undermine people’s human rights and agency. In this episode we discuss: how the political and psychological meet within and outside of therapy commercialization of psychopharmaceuticals and institutional corruption how neoliberalism and capitalist values are embedded in psychiatry the global mental health movement and psychiatric export as a neocolonial practice the ways in which global advocates with lived experience uniting and fighting back the need for epistemic justice, humility, and polyphony legal updates from the UN Committee for the Rights of Persons with Disabilities psychological humanities, mad studies, and other exciting emerging disciples of study Bio: Justin M. Karter, PhD, is a Counseling Psychologist in private practice in Boston and an instructor for the Center for Psychological Humanities & Ethics at Boston College. He is also the long-time research news editor of the Mad in America webzine. He completed his doctorate at the University of Massachusetts Boston in 2021. Justin does research in critical psychology, critical psychiatry, and philosophy of psychology. He is currently working on a book on the activism of psychosocial disability advocates in the context of the movement for global mental health. Links: Exploring the Fault Lines in Mental Health Discourse - Mad In America - https://www.madinamerica.com/2022/10/interview-psychologist-justin-karter/ Can Psychosocial Disability Transform Global Mental Health? - https://www.madinamerica.com/2023/08/can-psychosocial-disability-decolonize-mental-health-a-conversation-with-luis-arroyo-and-justin-karter/ Boston College Psychological Humanities - https://www.bc.edu/content/bc-web/schools/lynch-school/sites/Psychological-Humanities-Ethics/About.html#tab-mission_and_history Justin’s Research Gate Profile: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Justin-Karter Resources Mentioned Psychiatry Under The Influence by Robert Whitaker and Lisa Cosgrove - https://link.springer.com/book/10.1057/9781137516022 Vikram Patel lancet article: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(23)02241-9/abstract UN CRPD: https://www.un.org/development/desa/disabilities/convention-on-the-rights-of-persons-with-Disabilities.html Sessions & Information about the host: ⁠⁠JazmineRussell.com⁠⁠ Disclaimer: The DEPTH Work Podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Any information on this podcast in no way to be construed or substituted as psychological counseling, psychotherapy, mental health counseling, or any other type of therapy or medical advice.

The language we have for describing mental health challenges and suffering can constrict or expand the realm of possibilities for how we define ourselves. Sascha Altman DuBrul has spent his life challenging mainstream assumptions about mental health, what’s normal and abnormal, and built a community around shifting the narrative. Drawing from his personal experiences of getting locked up in a psych ward, he co-founded a radical mental health support group and media project (The Icarus Project) which proliferated the language of mental health concerns as ‘Dangerous Gifts,’ to be harnessed and worked with rather than obliterated and erased. Today we talk about lessons learned, the challenges and necessity of community organizing, developing ethical values as a provider outside the system, and visions for the future of mental health. In this episode: 02:30 Sascha’s Story & The Icarus Project07:53 From Punk Rock Subcultures to Radical Mental Health 11:11 Challenges and Transitions in Mental Health Organizing 17:14 Dangerous Gifts and other language 26:46 Using Internal Family Systems to Process Shame42:35 Self-reflection in Community Organizing 51:30 A Vision for the Future Bio Sascha DuBrul is a writer and educator that has been facilitating workshops and community dialogues at universities, conferences, community centers and activist gatherings for more than two decades. From the anarchist squatter community in New York City to the Lacandon jungle of Chiapas, Mexico, to the Earth First! road blockades of the Pacific Northwest, Sascha is a pioneer in urban farming and creative mental health advocacy. He is the co-founder of the Bay Area Seed Interchange Library, the first urban seed library in North America, and The Icarus Project, a radical community support network and media project that’s actively redefining the language and culture of mental health and illness. He is currently working in private practice and raising two children in Oakland, California. Sascha’s Website & Private Practice: https://www.saschadubrul.com/ Underground Transmissions Substack : https://undergroundtransmissions.substack.com/ The Icarus Project Archive and Resources: https://site.icarusprojectarchive.org/about-us Icarus Project Archive Survey 2024https://forms.gle/3EvDGq7NoyHa2Rzr9 Get bonus episodes now on substack! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://depthwork.substack.com/⁠ Sessions & Information about the host: ⁠⁠JazmineRussell.com⁠⁠ Disclaimer: The DEPTH Work Podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Any information on this podcast in no way to be construed or substituted as psychological counseling, psychotherapy, mental health counseling, or any other type of therapy or medical advice.

Are most mental health concerns a result of issues with cellular metabolism? In this episode, I discuss Dr. Chris Palmer’s 'brain energy theory,' which draws on decades of cross-disciplinary research, positing that metabolic dysfunctions throughout the body may underlie various mental health conditions. I explore how mental health, chronic illness, stress, modern lifestyle, and cellular metabolism are all related in an ongoing feedback loop. I review a landmark pilot study from Stanford on the ketogenic diet, and other research supporting this theory. This is a really exciting time for psychiatry as we move beyond neurotransmitter imbalance theories and understand the complex nuances of brain and body health. Studies such as these can promote more agency to make healthy choices and options to intervene at many levels in service of our health. 00:00 Introduction 00:26 Challenging the dominant paradigm 01:23 The Brain Energy Theory of metabolic health explained 06:00 The Role of Cellular Metabolism & Mitochondria 11:25 How our environment sets the stage 14:16 Nutritional interventions and the ketogenic diet 15:42 Case Studies and Research Findings Get bonus episodes now on substack! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://depthwork.substack.com/⁠ Sessions & Information about the host: ⁠⁠⁠⁠JazmineRussell.com⁠⁠⁠⁠ Links Brain Energy by Chris Palmer https://brainenergy.com/ Metabolic Mind https://www.metabolicmind.org/ Stanford Pilot Trial description: https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2024/04/keto-diet-mental-illness.html Case study of depression and anxiety: https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/nutrition/articles/10.3389/fnut.2024.1396685/full Review of Keto for Mental Health: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC11122005/ Disclaimer: The DEPTH Work Podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Any information on this podcast in no way to be construed or substituted as psychological counseling, psychotherapy, mental health counseling, or any other type of therapy or medical advice.

“Our mental health is a cumulative product of the story of the body.” Why do mental and physical health concerns seem to go hand in hand? At which levels can and should we intervene and develop more agency in our whole health trajectory? Too many people are getting more sick with traditional interventions, but many are taking their power back and finding ways that basic and sustainable changes can change our outcomes. In this episode, I share personal and professional lessons in healing from over a dozen chronic conditions (celiac, depression, IBS, Lyme, anemia, schizophrenia, PMDD, etc.), revealing how they were all connected and how I came to understand the importance of sustainable changes. I am not here to offer a “magic pill” kind of story, but rather to reveal and embrace the complexity of healing and offer a different framework for understanding mind-body health. In this episode we discuss: chronic illness and mental health overlap early cascades of symptoms that lead to chronic health crises surprising roots causes no one ever told me about why getting diagnosed is not enough to determine interventions interpreting the body’s messages why western world has worse rates of chronic illness and mental health concerns determining the most basic and sustainable interventions Get bonus episodes now on substack! ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://depthwork.substack.com/ Sessions & Information about the host: ⁠⁠⁠JazmineRussell.com⁠⁠⁠ Links chronic illness rates : https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/newsletter-article/study-chronic-disease-increased-25-percent-over-last-decade global chronic disease: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6214883/ c section and swabbing : https://www.science.org/content/article/swabbing-c-section-babies-mom-s-microbes-can-restore-healthy-bacteria effects of overuse of antibiotics: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4939477/ pans and step bacteria: https://www.psych.theclinics.com/article/S0193-953X(22)00101-0/abstract Disclaimer: The DEPTH Work Podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Any information on this podcast in no way to be construed or substituted as psychological counseling, psychotherapy, mental health counseling, or any other type of therapy or medical advice.

“A new order will emerge from within the chaos” - Sara Avant Stover Being human means experiencing loss. If we let it, these moments can propel us towards a deeper, richer inner journey. In this episode of the Depth Work podcast, Sarah Avant Stover shares her profound experiences through many circumstances of grief and heartbreak, detailing the events that led her to write her latest book. She discusses the unique nature of betrayal trauma, the transformative power of grief, and the significance of ritual and communal support in healing. Her exploration into Internal Family Systems (IFS) therapy and its impact on her is also highlighted. In fact, she was generous enough to demonstrate an IFS session in real time with yours truly 00:06 Sara’s story 02:13 Betrayal Trauma and Its Unique Challenges 04:14 The Transformative Power of Grief 12:16 Navigating the Early + Later Stages of Grief 14:51 Collective Grief and Community Healing 19:48 The Role of Rituals in Healing 25:20 Exploring Internal Family Systems (IFS) 32:29 Demonstrating a session - Jazmine’s parts 48:35 Understanding Inner Child Dynamics Bio Sara Avant Stover is an author, Certified Internal Family Systems practitioner, and teacher and mentor of women’s spirituality and entrepreneurship. Her work—integrating Buddhism, embodiment, and psychology—has uplifted the lives of countless women worldwide. She has taught at Kripalu, 1440 Multiversity, and Shambhala Mountain Center and has been featured in Yoga Journal, HuffPost, Newsweek, Natural Health, and more. She lives in Boulder, Colorado. For more, visit saraavantstover.com. Links Handbook for the Heartbroken: A Woman's Path from Devastation to Rebirth By Sara Avant Stover https://www.soundstrue.com/products/handbook-for-the-heartbroken?variant=43436021809351 Website https://saraavantstover.com/about Programs: https://saraavantstover.com/offerings Podcast: https://saraavantstover.com/podcast/ Resources Mentioned Jody Day https://gateway-women.com/ Sobonfu Some https://www.sobonfu.com/ Daniel Foor https://ancestralmedicine.org/bio/ Get bonus episodes now on substack! ⁠https://depthwork.substack.com/ Sessions & Information about the host: ⁠⁠JazmineRussell.com⁠⁠ Disclaimer: The DEPTH Work Podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Any information on this podcast in no way to be construed or substituted as psychological counseling, psychotherapy, mental health counseling, or any other type of therapy or medical advice.

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Its becoming more well known that gut health impacts mental health, but with the rise of ‘wellness culture’ how do we separate fact from fiction? Dr. Supriya Rao of Gutsy Girl MD bridges the gap between medicine and lifestyle to give patients simple and effective support for gut health, motility, and nutrition. We talk about the topics patients are often too embarrassed to discuss (elimination!), what trauma has to do with the gut, and the things we can do each day to support ourselves. In this episode we discuss: how gut health is linked to mental health the enteric nervous system and trauma why it’s important to screen for sexual abuse motility and issues with constipation and diarrhea simple effective nutrition tips 6 pillars of lifestyle medicine dispelling wellness myths Bio Dr. Supriya Rao (she/her) is a quadruple board-certified physician in internal medicine, gastroenterology, obesity medicine and lifestyle medicine who focuses on digestive disorders, gut health, obesity medicine, and women's health and wellness. She received her undergraduate degree from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology after which she graduated from Duke University School of Medicine. She completed her internship and residency in Internal Medicine from the Hospital at the University of Pennsylvania. She went on to complete her fellowship in Gastroenterology at Boston Medical Center. She joined Integrated Gastroenterology Consultants in 2014 and is now a managing partner. She completed further certification in obesity and lifestyle medicine and is the Director of Medical Weight Loss at Lowell General Hospital and runs the Metabolic & Lifestyle Medicine Program at IGIC. She also runs the motility program, which focuses on disorders of the esophagus, irritable bowel syndrome and anorectal disorders. She is passionate about empowering people to improve their health through sustainable changes in their lifestyle. She enjoys cooking, traveling, running, yoga and spending time with family and friends. You can also find Dr. Rao on Instagram @gutsygirlmd. Links https://www.gutsygirlmd.com/ Sessions & Information about the host: Get bonus episodes now on substack! https://depthwork.substack.com/ ⁠⁠JazmineRussell.com⁠⁠ Disclaimer: The DEPTH Work Podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Any information on this podcast in no way to be construed or substituted as psychological counseling, psychotherapy, mental health counseling, or any other type of therapy or medical advice.