Ronderings

When Krista Purnell was laid off for the first time, she planned on six months at home with family and then a new job back in New York. That is not what happened. What came instead was not on her bingo board, and she says it left her in a really great place.In this episode of Ronderings, Krista, an education leader with nearly twenty-five years in classrooms, schools and nonprofits who now offers coaching and consulting, talks about looking for what comes next, being a super connector, and relationship capital in K-12 education.She grew up the youngest of three in New Jersey, twelve years behind her sister, with Saturdays at the museum and the bookstore. She joined Teach For America in 2003, and her first years as a classroom teacher in Newark are still the hardest job she has ever had. Later, as a managing director at the education nonprofit Citizen Schools, she found her old school among those in the program. Then came a merger, that first layoff, and the hard lesson that a business decision still hurts when you have given a place a little of your heart.The conversation turns to what a search looks like now: being honest about which roles are not hers, writing a resume for whoever is actually reading it, taking a coding class and AI courses, and making time quiet enough to hear what comes next. It also covers why she introduces people with nothing expected back, why serious work for children can still make room for joy, and why investing in people is how the results come.It ends on her advice for anyone in a transition: be open to how your life and career unfold, because the next door may open because of what happened before.(01:29) - Recording conversations with the people Ron knows (02:11) - The Knicks, Philly, and comeback wins (05:43) - Growing up twelve years after her sister (07:09) - Saturdays at the museum and the bookstore (08:27) - Becoming a Teach For America corps member in 2003 (10:32) - Teaching middle school math and building assessment systems (12:36) - Citizen Schools, and a first layoff (16:51) - Coding classes and new tech skills (17:27) - Job searching now: waiting for a sign (19:23) - Honest applications, and resumes for systems and people (22:07) - How Krista became a super connector (24:33) - Neuroscience, social intelligence, and reaching people (26:47) - Little science nerds and Trivial Pursuit cards (28:51) - Introductions with nothing expected back (30:52) - Brad Stulberg and The Way of Excellence (33:08) - Joy at work, from Messi to Stephen Curry (35:04) - Serious work without taking ourselves too seriously (37:33) - Vulnerability, joy, and high performance (39:32) - New Leaders, and serious Ron mode (43:07) - Krista's one-minute commercial (44:29) - Hiring managers, and why the streets talk (46:03) - Relationship capital in K-12 education (46:48) - Social savants and drawing out org charts (50:06) - Beliefs, behaviors, and ways of being (51:07) - Krista's Rondering: be open to how your career unfolds (53:48) - Where to find Krista  Links:Skechers Is Releasing OG Anunoby's Game-Winning NBA Finals Sneakers - https://www.complex.com/sneakers/a/victor-deng/og-anunoby-skechers-skx-reign-nyc-blue-pe The Case for Excellence Without Obsession - https://nextbigideaclub.com/magazine/case-excellence-without-obsession-bookbite/58786/Ask Why, Then Act: From a High School Newsroom to New Leaders and the Good Jobs Economy with Jon Schnur - https://ronderings.podcastsmatter.com/episodes/jon-schnur PD for Instructional Coaches: Exploring Your Inner Landscape - https://www.edweek.org/education/opinion-pd-for-instructional-coaches-exploring-your-inner-landscape/2015/01 Krista Purnell on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/krista-purnell/More about Purnell & Co: https://purnellandco.netlify.app/Krista Purnell on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thekplife/Connect with Ron: www.linkedin.com/in/rapataloRon Rapatalo's bestselling book Leverage: www.amazon.com/dp/1613431473Interested in writing or publishing? Visit: www.leveragepublishinggroup.comStart your own podcast that matters: www.podcastsmatter.comCheck out other impact-driven podcasts: www.podcaststhatmatter.org

When Alex Cantu trained new soccer referees, he told them to give every call about thirty seconds, because the game would show them whether they got it right. As a Chief Operating Officer, he leads the same way, watching how each decision moves through finance, HR and the next staff survey.In this episode of Ronderings, Ron sits down with Alex, Chief Operating Officer of the Surge Institute, a national nonprofit that develops and supports leaders of color in education, to talk about staying calm under pressure, making big bets on imperfect information, and why a budget should tell a story.Alex tells his story as three decisions. His parents in San Antonio, who never got to finish college, made his education the priority from preschool on. In high school he took up refereeing because it paid cash, and twenty-three years later he still works games on Sundays. He graduated into the tail end of the Great Recession hoping for a career like the one in the advertising drama Mad Men, and a first job in schools with a nonprofit turned him toward social impact.Ron and Alex dig into why Alex says a COO communicates for a living, and why the role now calls for a generalist who can speak finance, law and culture without being a CPA or a lawyer. Alex sees keeping top talent through uncertainty as the sector's next challenge, and bets on skill building, with AI used to multiply what a lean team can do, not to shrink it.For his Rondering, Alex challenges his fellow COOs and CFOs to keep one spreadsheet for the whole budget and make the rest narrative: the organization's legacy, what has to change this year, and the way forward. The numbers matter, but people follow narratives.Chapters:(01:33) - Meeting at the Education Leaders of Color convening (03:27) - Three decisions, starting with his parents (05:25) - Refereeing soccer for twenty-three years (08:08) - A calm refereeing style and two breaths (11:32) - Missing calls and why the ball never lies (13:49) - From referee to chief operating officer (15:44) - Give every call thirty seconds (16:57) - Big bets on imperfect data (18:32) - Bridgespan and the rise of the generalist (23:23) - PowerPoint night: communicating for a living (26:57) - A first job in the Great Recession (28:53) - Advice to college Alex: be confident sooner (31:34) - Retaining top talent through uncertainty (35:44) - Alex's big bet: skill building and AI (37:20) - Ron's big bet: nonprofit mergers and acquisitions (42:37) - Reading together and celebrating what didn't work (48:03) - Alex's Rondering: one spreadsheet, the rest narrative (52:16) - Culture, the Spurs and the Knicks (55:05) - Investing in yourself as a leader Links:NBA referee Tim Donaghy pleads guilty in a betting scheme, August 2007 - https://www.justice.gov/archive/usao/nye/pr/2007/2007aug15.htmlHow Generalists Help Nonprofits Navigate Complexity, Bridgespan - https://www.bridgespan.org/insights/how-generalists-help-nonprofits-navigate-complexityA new home at Transcend for the Gradient Learning program, February 2026 - https://gradientlearning.org/whole-student-journal/our-next-chapter/The Knicks beat the Spurs in the 2026 NBA Finals - https://www.espn.com/story/_/id/48419498The Two-Organizations Problem, Harvard Business Review - https://hbr.org/2026/06/the-two-organizations-problemAlex Cantu on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexcantutx/More about the Surge Institute: https://www.surgeinstitute.org/Connect with Ron: www.linkedin.com/in/rapataloRon Rapatalo's bestselling book Leverage: www.amazon.com/dp/1613431473Interested in writing or publishing? Visit: www.leveragepublishinggroup.comStart your own podcast that matters: www.podcastsmatter.comCheck out other impact-driven podcasts: www.podcaststhatmatter.org

At ten or eleven, Chastity Lord read about a college student who was about to drop out, until she opened her mailbox and found her tuition inside, left by someone she never identified. Chastity decided then that one day she wanted to be that someone for somebody else.In this episode of Ronderings, Ron sits down with Chastity, president and CEO of Jeremiah Program, which works with single mothers and their children two generations at a time, to talk about self talk, healing, and what history still has to teach today’s leaders.Chastity grew up the middle of three girls in a low-income home, where the library was her babysitter and her mother had the girls write book reports. The mailbox story came from Carol Burnett’s autobiography, and it still shapes how Chastity thinks about the angels in our lives: sometimes the money, sometimes the tough conversation, sometimes the introduction.Ron and Chastity dig into self talk as a leadership practice. Being in conversation with your own greatness, she says, means being honest about when you dip below your baseline, and healing is evergreen: a cut closes, but it still leaves a scar. She turns to Harriet Tubman, whose hardest step may have been telling someone else her idea, and to the unnamed people who walked through heat and cold during the bus boycott.She also explains why the math does not math for single mothers earning minimum wage. Every mom at Jeremiah Program, across nine cities, is in college or headed there within six months, and the organization has published a report with the Urban Institute to put single mothers’ own voices on the record.Tune in for Chastity’s Rondering, a question she asks herself as a leader, a spouse, and a parent: do you want to be right, or do you want to be effective?Chapters:(04:02) - Chastity Lord on gratitude and a life her mother and grandmother couldn't have dreamed for her (06:57) - Carol Burnett's autobiography and the tuition money in the mailbox (11:13) - Ronness: why joy belongs in wellness (12:57) - History as an angel: Harriet Tubman and the courage to enlist others (16:08) - The bus boycott and the unnamed people who walked through it (17:22) - José Rizal, Juneteenth, and the revolutions that don't get named (18:50) - Asking each person what they need from the group (20:48) - Therapy, self talk, and being in conversation with your greatness (24:37) - Talking to ten-year-old Ronald (27:08) - Hurt leaders and the martyrdom in social impact work (28:38) - Healing is evergreen: the scar that stays after the cut closes (31:36) - Jeremiah Program and why single moms dream in threes (33:18) - Building the largest coalition of single moms in the country (34:45) - The Urban Institute report on what single mothers need (35:38) - The math doesn't math: minimum wage and the cost of being poor (40:25) - Where Chastity finds joy: car games with her son and trash TV (45:25) - Chastity's Rondering: do you want to be right or effective? (49:44) - It's not really about the phone: a parent's job is to keep you safe Links:Carol Burnett and the tuition in her mailbox - https://www.biography.com/actors/carol-burnett-stranger-money Fifth Avenue, Uptown, James Baldwin - https://seeksummer.commons.gc.cuny.edu/fifth-avenue-uptown/ Elevating Their Voices: What Single Mothers Say They Need to Survive, Urban Institute - https://www.urban.org/research/publication/elevating-their-voices-what-single-mothers-say-they-need-surviveChastity Lord on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chastity-lord-973870 More about Jeremiah Program: https://jeremiahprogram.org/ Jeremiah Program on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jeremiahprogram/Connect with Ron: www.linkedin.com/in/rapataloRon Rapatalo’s bestselling book Leverage: www.amazon.com/dp/1613431473Interested in writing or publishing? Visit: www.leveragepublishinggroup.comStart your own podcast that matters: www.podcastsmatter.comCheck out other impact-driven podcasts: www.podcaststhatmatter.org

Leadership coach and former Teach For America Chief People Officer Laura Saldivar Luna spent forty years defining success as the next achievement. When everything started breaking down at once, she asked a harder question: what if the problem was how she was relating to her own life?In this episode of Ronderings, Ron sits down with Laura, founder of Piñata Possible, to talk about what comes after you have checked every box and still have to ask what you actually want.It started at six, when a first-place trophy from a citywide math competition left her wanting more of that feeling. A first-generation Georgetown graduate, she told anyone at Teach For America headquarters who would listen that she would launch the San Antonio region within five years. She did, and watched her first 100 corps members teach in the same schools she attended growing up. Years later, she told her mom she had done everything on the list. Her mom cried and said: whatever you want. Laura was scared, because she was not sure.Ron and Laura dig into the piñata at the heart of her coaching: what feels like falling apart may be the opening to something bigger. They get candid about leaders who believe they serve people by burning themselves out, including an executive strategy session Laura showed up to with the flu, and Ron opens up about learning to forgive leaders who caused harm while burnt out themselves.Tune in to hear why Laura believes another word for uncertainty is possibility. Chapters:🏆 05:47 Laura Saldivar Luna's first-grade math trophy and forty years of chasing achievement🚪 07:57 Every box checked, then her mom's answer: whatever you want🪅 15:45 Piñata Possible: when falling apart is really breaking open🧭 33:06 Your body as a compass: a clear yes and a clear no🏫 39:23 Declaring a five-year dream to launch Teach For America San Antonio🤝 42:53 Relationship acumen: the leadership strength most workplace rubrics miss⏸️ 52:42 Burning out is not serving: slow down to go faster🕊️ 57:01 Forgiveness for leaders who caused harm while burnt out themselves🌬️ 01:11:45 Laura's Rondering: another word for uncertainty is possibilityLinks:Website: https://www.pinatapossible.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/laura-saldivar-luna Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pinatapossible/If something in this conversation sparked your curiosity, Laura would love to meet you one on one. Book a virtual tea with her via the Calendly link here.Connect with Ron: www.linkedin.com/in/rapataloCheck Out Ron's Book: www.amazon.com/dp/1613431473 Leverage Publishing Group: www.leveragepublishinggroup.comPublish a Book That Matters: http://booksthatmatter.orgStart a Podcast That Matters: http://podcastsmatter.comGo from Expert to Thought Leader: http://geniusdiscovery.org 

Education leader Lanira Murphy has had people write her off as too joyful to be serious. She leads network-wide academics anyway, with karaoke in the PD and a firm belief that Black education leaders should never have to lead as someone else.In this episode of Ronderings, Ron sits down with Lanira Murphy, Senior Director of Academics and former California State Assembly candidate, to talk about joy as a leadership practice and why the field still needs a real plan for developing Black educators.Her story starts with her mother in Shreveport, Louisiana, whose school was desegregated when she was in eleventh grade. The Black schools closed and the Black teachers were fired, a loss Lanira says education has never recovered from. Her mother made sure her children would graduate. Lanira became the first in her family to finish college, then nearly applied to graduate school without asking her professor for a recommendation. The professor would not allow it, and told her to always give people the opportunity to participate in her life.Ron and Lanira dig into what her Assembly run, where she earned more than 60,000 votes against an incumbent, taught her about voice and motivation, and why adults in professional development deserve the same dynamic learning environments we want for kids. She is candid about the double bind Black women leaders face: too angry reads one way, too joyful reads as not serious. Her answer is to show up as herself anyway.Tune in to hear Lanira's Rondering on the power people underestimate in themselves, and why she believes the most powerful movements in American history came from young people. Chapters:🏫 03:54 Lanira Murphy on how desegregation taught her mother what education is worth🙌🏾 06:23 Always give people the opportunity to participate in your life🗳️ 11:57 Why she walked away from politics and chose Teach For America🌱 16:30 Pouring into Black education leaders after a lost generation😄 19:30 Joyful leadership means making sure people feel seen🎤 22:54 Adults don't play enough, and educators burn out without it⚖️ 28:01 The double bind of leading as a joyful Black woman🗣️ 34:43 What politics teaches school leaders about voice and the power of story⚡ 47:19 Lanira's Rondering: Marianne Williamson on being powerful beyond measureLinks:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/lanira-murphy-89899920Lanira calls herself an open book: if she has a resource that's working, it's yours. Reach out to her on LinkedIn to keep the conversation going on joyful academic leadership and developing the next generation of Black education leaders.Connect with Ron: www.linkedin.com/in/rapataloCheck Out Ron's Book: www.amazon.com/dp/1613431473 Leverage Publishing Group: www.leveragepublishinggroup.comPublish a Book That Matters: http://booksthatmatter.orgStart a Podcast That Matters: http://podcastsmatter.comGo from Expert to Thought Leader: http://geniusdiscovery.org