Humanitarian Fault Lines

Jamie McGoldrick speaks with Dr. Francis Deng. He has served in the United Nations as South Sudan's first independent ambassador and spent time as Special Adviser for the Prevention of Genocide. He’s also served as Ambassador of Sudan to Nordic Countries, Canada, and the United States and Minister of State for Foreign Affairs. Francis has written and edited dozens of books, including “War of Visions: Conflict of Identities in the Sudan.” Jamie and Dr. Deng discuss conflict and crises in Sudan and South Sudan. Dr. Deng explains issues in South Sudan and offers what he believes are solutions to improve the lives of people in the country. Jamie asks him about the civil war in Sudan. Dr. Deng says there are flaws in how the international community approaches the conflict in the country, and he argues for a more nuanced approach to finding a resolution. Dr. Deng also offers criticism of UN peacekeepers and the role they’ve played in the region.

The second part of Jamie McGoldrick's conversation with Dr. Arif Husain, Chief Economist & Director of Research, Assessments & Monitoring Division at United Nations World Food at WFP. The conversation was recorded in late 2023. Jamie asks Dr. Husain how the WFP responds during conflicts, including the current one in Gaza. Jamie also asks about funding cuts which are forcing the organization to make difficult decisions on where to allocate resources. Jamie and Dr. Husain discuss the growing number of people facing hunger and famine, and how the humanitarian world can better respond. Dr. Husain emphasizes that governments and the private sector need to step up in the battle against food insecurity.

Host Jamie McGoldrick speaks with Dr. Arif Husain, Chief Economist & Director of Research, Assessments & Monitoring Division at United Nations World Food at WFP. The conversation was recorded in late 2023. Jamie asks Dr. Husain how the WFP responds during conflicts, including the current one in Gaza. Jamie also asks about funding cuts which are forcing the organization to make difficult decisions on where to allocate resources. Jamie and Dr. Husain discuss the growing number of people facing hunger and famine, and how the humanitarian world can better respond. Dr. Husain emphasizes that governments and the private sector need to step up in the battle against food insecurity.

Jamie McGoldrick speaks with Andrew Harper, Special Advisor to the High Commissioner for Refugees on Climate Action at the United Nations. The conversation was recorded late in 2023. A big part of Andrew’s job is anticipating where climate shocks will happen so the UN has a plan in place ahead of time. He tells Jamie that climate events require a complex response, explaining that people can be displaced, shelter destroyed, and supply lines disrupted. Jamie asks Andrew about the term “climate refugees.” The UNHCR doesn’t use that phrasing, instead opting to go with different language when people are displaced from a climate event. Andrew emphasizes that the private sector needs to step up when it comes to dealing with climate change. He says there’s currently not enough funding to deal with climate preparedness.

Host Jamie McGoldrick speaks with Yuval Shany. He’s a lecturer in Public International Law at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, and a Senior Fellow at the Israel Democracy Institute. He has published an essay titled “Unpacking Key Assumptions Underlying Legal Analyses of the 2023 Hamas-Israel War.” Jamie and Yuval spoke in early December about the conflict, with Yuval giving legal interpretations for Israel’s actions since Hamas’ attack on October 7th. He acknowledges that some of the actions Israel has taken are questionable under international law, but he says in any violent conflict, there are actions which are not fully compatible with the law. Yuval says Israel does accept the laws of war and has made efforts to limit the loss of civilian lives, including giving advance notice of attacks so civilians could leave certain areas. Jamie asks Yuval what his response is to those who say Israel is blatantly violating international and humanitarian law. The two also discuss the UN’s reputation in Israel, the possibility for more humanitarian ceasefires, and what the future could look like for Gaza.

Host Jamie McGoldrick speaks with Tania Hary, Executive Director at Gisha - Legal Center for Freedom of Movement, an Israeli not-for-profit organization which advocates for the freedom of movement of Palestinians. The conversation was recorded recently about the situation in Gaza. Tania says there’s a “deep trauma” in Israel about the attack on October 7th. She explains that views have hardened, which makes it difficult to find a solution to the crisis in Gaza. Jamie asks Tania questions on international and humanitarian law and how they relate to attacks Israel is carrying out in Gaza. They discuss the humanitarian needs for civilians, not just during the conflict, but after the conflict has ended as well.

Host Jamie McGoldrick speaks with Filippo Grandi, UN High Commissioner for Refugees. They start by discussing the situation in Gaza, with Jamie asking what is needed to help resolve the crisis there. The conversation touches on international and humanitarian law and the importance of upholding those principles. Jamie asks Grandi if he’s worried about humanitarians losing their relevance as more crises and conflicts appear around the world. The two talk about migration and refugees and what improvements can be made on those issues. Fillipo also brings up COP 28, which is currently underway, and the Global Refugee Forum which takes place December 13th to 15th.

Host Jamie McGoldrick speaks with Charles Petrie, a former UN assistant secretary general with more than three decades of experience in conflict and post-conflict settings. Charles’ book, The Triumph of Evil - The Rwanda Genocide and the Search for Justice, is based on his personal eye-witness accounts while working for the UN in the country during the genocide. It’s available on Amazon, at Barnes & Noble, and wherever books are sold. They discuss the situation in Gaza, and the failure of international and humanitarian law. After that, the conversation focuses on Myanmar. Charles worked in the nation for the UN and continues to cover the humanitarian crisis there. He describes the situation on the ground, with the economy struggling and a lack of leadership. Jamie asks Charles about the Rohingya refugees, a crisis which they both agree does not have an easy solution. Charles says one of his biggest disappointments about the situation in Myanmar is the lack of global concern. He argues for more awareness of the situation which would put pressure on international organizations, such as the UN, to do more to address the crisis.

Host Jamie McGoldrick speaks with Ross Mountain, a senior United Nations official who was a former emergency relief coordinator and a humanitarian coordinator in the Middle East. They discuss the difficult situation in Gaza, with humanitarians working to get life saving services to people in the area. Jamie and Ross also talk about the criticism directed towards the UN, including backlash from Israeli officials following a speech from Secretary-General Antonio Guterres. Ross emphasizes the need for humanitarian and international law to be maintained, and he says the failure to upload these rules is leading to a catastrophic humanitarian crisis. Jamie and Ross get into other topics as well, including Ukraine and Sudan.

Host Jamie McGoldrick speaks with Reena Ghelani, the United Nations Assistant Secretary-General, Famine Prevention and Response Coordinator. She has over two decades of experience in the humanitarian sector, spanning across Africa and the Middle East. Jamie asks Reena about the work being done to combat global hunger. Reena explains the main causes for food insecurity, with conflict and climate disasters being two of the primary reasons. She argues that there needs to be better collaboration between corporations, governments, and humanitarian organizations to make meaningful inroads on feeding the hungry. Jamie brings up the budget shortfall at the World Food Programme, and he asks Reena how the UN and other groups can step up. She also addresses the UN goal to end hunger by 2030 and lays out what the progress is there.

Host Jamie McGoldrick speaks with Sara Pantuliano, Chief Executive at ODI. The organization has their own podcast, Think Change, which discusses global issues fortnightly with leading experts. Sara is the Chair of the UN Secretary-General’s Seventh Advisory Group of the UN Peacebuilding Fund and a member of UNFPA’s ICPD25 High-Level Commission. She also serves on the High-Level Group on Humanitarian Resilience and Investing and the Digital Currency Governance Consortium Steering Committee of the World Economic Forum (WEF). Jamie and Sara discuss the work ODI is currently involved in, and she gives her perspective on crises happening around the globe. She explains that there are people losing faith in humanitarian systems, and she highlights Niger and Sudan as areas where political and humanitarian leaders have struggled. Jamie and Sara talk about reforms needed in humanitarian systems. They also discuss neutrality, with Sara calling neutrality a fallacy, arguing local aid groups do not operate from a stance of pure neutrality.

Host Jamie McGoldrick speaks with Ugochi Daniels, Deputy Director General for Operations at the International Organization for Migration in the UN. They discuss a wide variety of topics related to migration. Jamie asks her about the impact the invasion of Ukraine is having as people are pushed into different parts of Europe. There is a conversation about political difficulties, as countries change policies to restrict or even ban migrants. Ugochi details working with governments to try and establish safe and orderly migration. They also talk about how rhetoric in the media can negatively influence the perception people have of migrants coming into their countries.

Host Jamie McGoldrick speaks with Hannah Rae Armstrong, a writer and policy advisor with over a decade of field based experience in North Africa and the Sahel. Her work has been featured in the New York Times, Washington Post, and Le Monde. Jamie and Hannah spoke in late August about the coup in Niger and its impact on the region. Hannah does a great job of explaining the different parties involved in the coup, and she details what makes this coup different from other ones in west Africa. She’s critical of the role France has played, saying they’ve made the situation worse with their rhetoric. There’s also a discussion about the impact new sanctions will have on people in Niger, a country which the United Nations Human Index Development ranks as one of the poorest in the world. Finally, Hannah gives her perspective on what could come next in Niger with tension high in the region.

Host Jamie McGoldrick speaks with Dr. Jemilah Mahmood, Executive Director of the Sunway Centre for Planetary Health. She’s also had an extensive career in crisis management, which includes time at the United Nations and as an advisor to the Prime Minister of Malaysia. Jamie and Jemilah discussed crises in southeast Asia and the responses to those crises. He asked her about the situation in Myanmar, and she gave her opinion on the ASEAN response to that humanitarian crisis. Jemilah provided her perspective on the non-interference framework of ASEAN which has been criticized by some. Other topics of conversation include China’s influence and relationship with ASEAN, and the impact climate change is having in that part of the world. She was critical of the global response to climate challenges and emphasized that more needs to be done there.

Host Jamie McGoldrick speaks with David Beasley. He served as the Executive Director of the World Food Programme from 2017 until April 2023, and he’s had a long career in U.S. politics which includes over a decade in Congress. David was the head of the WFP when it won a Nobel Peace Prize in 2020. The conversation focuses on the growing challenges in getting food to hungry people around the world. David explains that conflicts are the biggest obstacle to ending hunger by 2030, a goal set by the United Nations. Jamie and David discuss the war in Ukraine and the impact it’s having on food, with grain and fertilizer supply and delivery restricted. David says the suspension of the Black Sea grain deal will have catastrophic effects on the poor and hungry. Finally, David lays out what he would like to see governments and large corporations do to aid in stopping world hunger.

Host Jamie McGoldrick speaks with Afghan journalist Zahra Joya, who was named one of Time’s Women of the Year in 2022. She created Rukhshana Media in November 2020, the publication covers women’s issues in Afghanistan including reproductive health, sexual violence, and gender discrimination. Jamie speaks with her about the humanitarian crisis in the nation as the Taliban places restrictions on what women can do. Zahra describes a difficult situation, with hunger and high levels of poverty. She explains how the situation is especially challenging for women who were breadwinners in their families. They are struggling to bring home income with restrictions on women’s ability to get jobs or even leave the home without a male escort. Jamie also asks Zahra about the obstacles with humanitarian assistance as the Taliban has banned Afghan women aid workers. Zahra says there are certain issues better suited for a woman aid worker than a man, especially when it comes to healthcare.

Host Jamie McGoldrick speaks with Arjun Jain, UN Principle Coordinator for the Rohingya Refugee Response, about conditions in Cox’s Bazar. The location is the site of the largest refugee camp in the world with more than 1 million Rohingya refugees. Arjun provides an overview of the situation. He gives honest answers about what’s gone right in the aid response and what needs to be better. Jamie asks Arjun about funding, and Arjun says it’s been a challenge getting the dollars to provide comprehensive support for the refugees. He explains that some services have already been cut back due to a lack of funding. Arjun also talks about the future for these refugees. He raises concerns for children, some of whom have spent their entire lives in the camps.

Host Jamie McGoldrick speaks with Louise Aubin, United Nations Resident Coordinator in Niger. She gives an outlook on the humanitarian crisis in the country. Aubin tells Jamie that violence and displacement are two of the main challenges, with those displaced heavily reliant on assistance. She says education is a top priority, and she discusses working with the government to build out resources for citizens. Jamie asks Aubin about the prospects going forward and what is needed to improve the aid response. The crisis in Niger is complex, and Aubin provides a good overview of the situation.

Host Jamie McGoldrick speaks with Alex de Waal. He is the Executive Director of the World Peace Foundation and a research professor at the Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy. He is, most recently, co-author of “Sudan’s Unfinished Democracy: The promise and betrayal of a people’s revolution” (Hurst 2022). Jamie asks him about the conflict in Sudan. Alex describes how the two sides grew into this conflict, and he explains how there’s been a failure of diplomacy. He emphasizes how the window to calm the violence is closing quickly. Jamie asks Alex what the potential outcomes are, and her gives honest answers on a difficult situation.

Host Jamie McGoldrick speaks with Gabriella Waaijman, Global Humanitarian Director of Save the Children. They discuss a variety of topics on the humanitarian sector, including how aid work has evolved over the last several decades. Gabriella explains that while there have been improvements, there is a lack of input from local organizations. She talks about how Save the Children is partnering with local groups to help them have a say in how donor dollars are distributed. Jamie asks Gabriella about staying neutral as humanitarians which has been tested with Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. They also discuss the trade offs they are forced to make as humanitarians when states put pressure or even kick out aid workers for speaking out.