Soul & Science: Fast Forward Your Marketing Mind
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Soul & Science is an award-winning podcast where marketing’s brightest minds reveal what it takes to build breakthrough brands. Hosted by Jason Harris, each episode explores the balance between brand building (Soul) and business performance (Science). From legacy brands to emerging disruptors, we delve into the insights, culture, and vision behind the most successful brand stories.
Soul & Science is a Mekanism podcast produced by Maggie Boles, Ryan Tillotson, and Lily Jablonski. The show is edited by Daniel Ferreira, with theme music by Kyle Merritt.
Brought to you by Mekanism.
Soul & Science is a Mekanism podcast produced by Maggie Boles, Ryan Tillotson, and Lily Jablonski. The show is edited by Daniel Ferreira, with theme music by Kyle Merritt.
Brought to you by Mekanism.
140 Episodes
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When you’re up against giants, speed and creativity become your superpowers.Recorded live at Advertising Week New York 2025, this conversation with Drew Panayiotou, CMO at Keurig Dr Pepper, dives into how Dr Pepper’s challenger mindset—and relentless creativity—turned an underdog into a market leader.From transforming Best Buy’s digital future to guiding Pfizer through the pandemic, Drew has built a career on driving growth through agility and purpose. He and Jason explore how to turn legacy brands into modern disruptors, why longevity beats reinvention, and what it really takes to build raving fans in a world that rewards speed over substance.Key Takeaways: ✅ Challenger energy fuels creativity, not chaos ✅ The best campaigns evolve—they don’t reset ✅ Great brands grow by deepening relationships, not widening reach ✅ Progress beats perfection in a world that never slows downMemorable Moments:💡 “The best brands don’t chase new fans—they obsess over their raving ones.”💡 “Marketers get bored faster than consumers ever will.”💡 “Agility isn’t about moving fast—it’s about moving together.”💡 “It’s not funnel thinking anymore. It’s a flywheel.”Brought to you by Mekanism.
Energy gets attention. Trust builds loyalty.In a world obsessed with virality, longevity still wins. The best brands aren’t just loud—they’re reliable, repeatable, and relentlessly consistent.With a background in digital strategy and brand storytelling, Sara Kear, Chief Marketing Officer at Condado Tacos and Tequila, has turned a regional taco spot into a fast-growing national brand built on creativity, consistency, and community.In this episode, Sara joins Jason to talk about balancing creative energy with operational discipline, rebuilding a brand after rapid growth, and how structure can actually unlock innovation. She shares lessons from Condado’s rebrand, the role of “flavor rebellion” in defining identity, and how listening—to both teams and guests—became the company’s most powerful growth strategy.Key Takeaways:✅ Consistency is the foundation of brand trust✅ Creative limits can expand, not restrict, innovation✅ Listening to your audience reveals what data can’t✅ Growth without structure risks brand identityMemorable Moments:💡 “A million small moments make up the feeling of belonging.”💡 “We outgrew our brand before we realized it—so we paused to rebuild.”💡 “Confines create creativity. When you define the sandbox, you can scale.”💡 “Fun brings people in. Trust makes them family.”Brought to you by Mekanism.
Empathy at scale isn’t easy—but it’s the heart of BetterHelp’s mission.With two decades of marketing leadership at Facebook, The RealReal, and Beyond, Sara Brooks has helped brands grow from startup to IPO and beyond. Now, as Chief Growth Officer at BetterHelp, she’s using data and storytelling to make mental health care more accessible around the world.In this episode, Sara joins Jason Harris to talk about leading with empathy in a data-driven world, the power of authentic storytelling, and how vulnerability has become one of the most effective tools in brand building. She also shares lessons from campaigns with Lewis Capaldi and college athletes that prove empathy—and humor—can coexist with rigor and scale.Key Takeaways:✅ Empathy and data aren’t opposites—they’re accelerants✅ Authenticity can’t be automated, but it can be scaled✅ Vulnerability builds affinity faster than perfection✅ Destigmatizing mental health starts with honest storytellingMemorable Moments:💡 “When you feel better, everyone in your life feels better as well.”💡 “Vulnerability isn’t a risk—it’s the whole point.”💡 “Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good. Just get started.”💡 “If not us, then who? If not now, then when?”Brought to you by Mekanism.
Building a brand takes focus. Building a meaningful career takes range.From leading global campaigns at L’Oréal, PepsiCo, and American Express to driving purpose-driven change in accessibility, youth empowerment, and the arts, Stinson Parks III has built a career by refusing to be boxed in. After surviving a near-death experience, he redefined what success means—shifting his focus from building brands to building impact. Today, Stinson is using his marketing mindset to drive change across four pillars: accessibility, youth, community, and the arts. In this episode, he joins Jason Harris to talk about transforming professional skills into personal impact—and why the same tools that move brands can also move people.Key Takeaways:✅ The skills that build brands can also build change✅ Accessibility isn’t charity—it’s innovation and inclusion in action✅ Art and storytelling have the power to heal and connect✅ True success isn’t what you achieve—it’s who you helpMemorable Moments:💡 “I went to the school of Mattel, PepsiCo, and Amex—these were my universities.”💡 “I was literally dead for a month. Now I see my injury as the biggest blessing of my life.”💡 “Change happens one person, one conversation, one community at a time.”💡 “It’s not what you have to do—it’s what you get to do, and who you get to serve.”Brought to you by Mekanism.
How do you turn civic engagement into a brand people actually want to join?Kyle Lierman, CEO of Civic Nation and former Obama White House staffer, joins Jason Harris to talk about leading large-scale movements—It’s On Us, When We All Vote, Made to Save—and the organizing principles that make them work.Kyle shares how his time at the White House shaped his leadership philosophy, why Gen Z is the most pivotal generation for social change, and how cause-driven campaigns can harness creativity and data to move millions without losing their humanity.Key Takeaways:✅ Organizing and branding share the same goal: building trusted relationships at scale✅ Great movements have a sprint mentality—urgency drives innovation and impact✅ Gen Z controls the culture for a 30-year block; win their trust, and you shape the future✅ Build where people want to be, not just where they already areMemorable Moments:💡 “Put your head down, do your job incredibly well for six months, and then you can do anything.”💡 “We’re making one plus one equal five—organizing power plus creative storytelling.”💡 “Gen Z has the power to bring an issue to the forefront in a way no other generation does.”💡 “Our job isn’t to give people medicine—it’s to build the kind of community they want to join.”Brought to you by Mekanism.
How do you build “America’s coffee” without getting lost in politics?Donny Jensen, CMO of Black Rifle Coffee, joins Jason Harris to share lessons from a career that’s spanned Nike, Red Bull, Beats by Dre, Spartan Race, and now one of America’s fastest-growing coffee companies. Donny explains why brand is the ultimate differentiator, how Black Rifle balances irreverent viral content with disciplined growth marketing, and what it means to stand for veterans and first responders without playing politics.Key Takeaways:✅ Below $1B, CMOs must know the growth levers themselves—not just manage from the top✅ The sweet spot is a hybrid model: in-house talent plus specialized agency partners✅ Brand is the moat—when ads shut off during COVID, Spartan’s traffic kept coming because of brand strength✅ Plan your own calendar: cultural relevance matters less than staying true to your brand momentsMemorable Moments:💡 “If you don’t know performance and growth, you’re at a massive disadvantage as a CMO.”💡 “We want to be America’s coffee, America’s energy—positive energy, every time you encounter us.”💡 “A great brand gets you the retail meeting. It makes everything easier.”💡 “My dad paid me a dollar an hour to sweep on his job sites—I still work like nothing is owed to me.”Brought to you by Mekanism.
How do you scale a wellness brand without losing the mission?Doug Sweeny, CMO of Oura, joins Jason Harris to unpack the playbook behind Oura’s evolution—from a sleep device born in Finland to a holistic health platform used by pro teams, biohackers, and everyday members. Doug shares why the internal reset comes first (“align the company, then tell the world”), how revenue ownership changes the CMO seat, and what it takes to balance brand campaigns with hard-nosed performance.Key Takeaways:✅ Revenue responsibility sharpens marketing judgment and earns a bigger seat at the table✅ Use brand at the top, precision stories in the mid/lower funnel; measure each tier with distinct KPIs✅ Prioritize ruthlessly: global expansion and product velocity require explicit tradeoffs✅ When CAC is upside-down, pause and reset—efficiency first, then scaleMemorable Moments:💡 “I was getting much different answers… we had to reset it and embed it in the company—then you can tell the story externally.”💡 “Fifty percent of new members hear about Oura from a family member, friend, or coworker.”💡 “Give Us the Finger was about longevity and empowerment—and it became some of our highest-engagement social.”💡 “We’re here to do the best work of our lives.”Brought to you by Mekanism.
How do you recognize a “super concept” before it goes mainstream?John Lowe, Managing Director at Amok Consumer Growth and former CEO of Jeni’s Splendid Ice Creams, joins Jason Harris to share his playbook for identifying breakout food and beverage brands.During his 14 years as CEO, John scaled Jeni’s by more than 100x in revenue—while also serving on the boards of White Castle, Watershed Distillery, and more. Today, he’s bringing that experience to founders through Amok Consumer Growth, backing companies like Fox in the Snow and DOUGH.Key Takeaways:✅ Bet on founders with self-awareness—they’ll build the right team around them✅ Growth pace is determined by organizational bandwidth, not ambition alone✅ Cultural relevance (from Twitter to TikTok) is a marketing lever worth investing in✅ Copycats come fast—brands need a defensible “moat” in product, process, or communityMemorable Moments:💡 “When you’ve got people lining up every day, you know there’s some magic around it.”💡 “Private equity doesn’t make the food taste better—it’s about the founder and the product.”💡 “Jeni’s on a stick was right in front of us. I regret not pounding the table harder.”💡 “It’s not the size of the dog in the fight, it’s the size of the fight in the dog.”Brought to you by Mekanism.
What you can measure drives growth, but what you can’t often drives breakthroughs.Alex Schultz, Chief Marketing Officer and VP of Analytics at Meta (and author of the upcoming book Click Here), joins Jason Harris to unpack the soul and science behind decisions that move billions of people: the rebrand from Facebook to Meta, launching Threads to 400M MAU, the retention curve that signaled Ray-Ban Meta glasses were a hit, and why a great creative brief is the beating heart of iconic work.Key Takeaways:✅ Retention is the clearest signal of product-market fit—and the metric that decides whether to scale✅ Separate goals from metrics to avoid chasing numbers at the expense of strategy✅ Measure the measurable with rigor to earn credibility for the initiatives you can’t perfectly track✅ AI will transform marketing in three ways: making current work cheaper, unlocking previously uneconomical tactics, and enabling entirely new formatsMemorable Moments:💡 “The decision to change the brand was science. Everything else was art.”💡 “We couldn’t test the Meta rebrand—we had to keep it secret.”💡 “A metric can never perfectly describe a goal.”💡 “Incrementality is everything. If I do something, I want it to make a difference.”Brought to you by Mekanism.
In a world obsessed with instant results, Jackie Jantos makes the case for brand building that lasts.From Coca-Cola to Spotify to Hinge, Jackie has spent two decades shaping brands that endure by focusing on cultural insights, inclusive teams, and work that actually serves audiences. Now, as President and CMO at Hinge—the dating app “designed to be deleted”—she’s proving that long-term growth comes from products that deliver real outcomes.In this episode of Soul & Science, Jason Harris sits down with Jackie to explore why usefulness beats flash, how empathy and courage guide her leadership, and why staying patient pays off in brand building.Key Takeaways:✅ Design for outcomes, not vanity metrics—Hinge optimizes for “great dates,” not swipes✅ Big insights upstream fuel creative ideas that can scale globally✅ Credibility-rich programs compound more than week-long activations✅ Empathy and courage work best as operating systems inside the company✅ Long-term brand consistency beats short-term distraction every timeMemorable Moments:💡 “What better way to encourage people to try your product than to be a product that really works?”💡 “I get most excited upstream—at the insight—when it feels unique and true.”💡 “Not every brand needs another stunty activation. Put resources where they’re genuinely useful.”💡 “Empathy and courage mean saying the hard thing, even if you botch it the first time.”Brought to you by Mekanism.
What do basketball, brand reviews, and $400M in agency wins have in common? Michael Palma.From being a Parade All-American athlete to coaching under Jim Valvano, Michael Palma pivoted into advertising recruitment—eventually placing more than 1,300 top talents and helping agencies win over $400 million in revenue. Today, as founder of The Palma Group, he manages reviews for global brands like Coca-Cola, Heineken, Peugeot, and Zaxby’s.In this episode of Soul & Science, Jason Harris sits down with Michael to unpack what makes partnerships last, how to spot red flags before they sink a pitch, and why true leaders walk with a “humble swagger.”Key Takeaways:✅ Clients don’t want collaborators—they want leadership that listens✅ There’s no “perfect” agency, only the ideal fit for the moment✅ Good agencies get comfortable; great ones never stop bringing ideas✅ A pitch is won or lost in the first five minutes of emotional connection✅ Agency culture—not case studies—ultimately drives client choiceMemorable Moments:💡 “Clients want leadership that listens. They don’t want collaborators.”💡 “If you’re gonna lose, lose as you. Don’t lose pretending to be someone else.”💡 “There is no perfect agency—only the best possible fit.”💡 “The mortal enemy of good agencies is efficiency. Great ones never stop caring.”Brought to you by Mekanism.
Change is inevitable—but the most successful leaders know how to turn it into their greatest advantage.In this episode, Jason sits down with Jason Feifer, Editor-in-Chief of Entrepreneur magazine and author of Build for Tomorrow. From walking away from his first reporting job to pitching national outlets cold, Feifer has built a career on spotting opportunities no one asked him to pursue—and helping others do the same. They unpack how to future-proof your career or brand, the filter he uses to separate hype from lasting change, and why your personal mission statement should never hinge on a single role.Key Takeaways:✅ “Opportunity Set B” can unlock your biggest career leaps✅ Anchor your identity to transferable value, not your current title✅ Trends that last solve old problems, not new ones✅ Redefining productivity can help you sustain growth and avoid burnoutMemorable Moments:💡 “Never be satisfied with the thing you already have. It’s a launching point for what’s next.”💡 “If nobody’s asking you to do it, that’s probably where the best opportunities are hiding.”💡 “Your mission statement should survive any change in title, industry, or medium.”💡 “Things that last are things that solve old problems in better ways.”💡 “Change doesn’t mean losing your value—it’s a chance to apply it somewhere new.”Brought to you by Mekanism.
This year’s Cannes Lions Festival — the world’s biggest celebration of creativity — made headlines for all the wrong reasons. Brazilian agency DM9 was stripped of multiple awards — including a Grand Prix — after using AI to fabricate campaign case study results.Jason Harris breaks down how they pulled it off, why it’s a symptom of a bigger problem in the industry, and what Cannes is doing to prevent it from happening again. From deepfakes to fabricated results, AI is making award scams easier than ever — and the fallout could change the way we measure creative success.Key Takeaways:✅ AI has made it easier to manipulate case studies and campaign results.✅ Cannes Lions is implementing stricter AI disclosure rules and expert reviews.✅ If we can’t trust the work we celebrate, what’s the point of celebrating it?Brought to you by Mekanism.
AI isn’t just speeding up production—it’s rewriting the rules of storytelling.In this episode, Jason sits down with award-winning director and creative pioneer Jason Zada, founder of the AI-native entertainment studio Secret Level. From Elf Yourself to Take This Lollipop to an AI-generated Coca-Cola ad that sparked headlines and backlash, Zada has spent his career pushing the boundaries of how audiences engage with content.They dive into the power of participatory storytelling, what it means to build with AI from the ground up, and why creative leaders need to think less like traditional producers and more like technologists.Key Takeaways:✅ AI-native production requires a totally new mindset—not just new tools✅ Participatory storytelling builds deeper emotional connections✅ Virality often comes from imperfection, not polish✅ Creative leadership means placing long bets before the industry catches upMemorable Moments:💡 “Pre-production is the new post-production.”💡 “You can’t apply a traditional production mindset to AI. It just won’t work.”💡 “People didn’t hate the Coke ad until they found out it was AI.”💡 “The best thing about launching Secret Level? Being right.”💡 “Make something people love or hate. Anything else, why bother?”Brought to you by Mekanism.
If you're in the C-suite, it's no longer enough to delegate AI experimentation to mid-level staff. In this Soul & Science mini, we unpack three smart, actionable ways senior leaders can stay sharp in the age of AI—from reverse mentorship to hands-on sprints to rewarding the AI-forward thinkers in your org.This is your leadership playbook for getting off the sidelines and into the AI sandbox.✅ Key Takeaways:Reverse mentorship helps leaders learn directly from internal AI experts.Blocking time for AI experimentation keeps the C-suite hands-on and informed.Rewarding innovation signals that AI curiosity is a company value.Brought to you by Mekanism.
How do you take a hospital’s 150th birthday and make it feel like a city-wide celebration instead of just a line in a press release?In this episode, Jason sits down with Kate Torrance, VP and Head of Brand at SickKids, and Josh Budd, Chief Creative Officer at Citizen Relations, to unpack one of the boldest healthcare campaigns in recent memory. They share how SickKids transformed a milestone into a powerful storytelling opportunity through creative risk-taking, clear brand strategy, and a true partnership between client and agency. From crafting 150 stories of impact to launching a hot air balloon over downtown Toronto, Kate and Josh walk through the creative decisions that made it all possible.Key Takeaways:✅ Strong partnerships start with trust, not briefs✅ Simple ideas, like balloons, can carry powerful stories✅ Emotional impact comes from authenticity, not pity✅ The best ideas come from looking inward, not just at competitorsMemorable Moments:💡 “It’s not a birthday without balloons.”💡 “Some days you wake up with a shovel, some days with a spoon.”💡 “If it triggers you, it might mean it’s powerful.”💡 “We didn’t just bring an idea. We brought a partnership.”💡 “You can break convention if the story is real.”Brought to you by Mekanism.
As brands across the country scale back or scrap their DEI initiatives, it’s time to ask: what happened to the values they claimed to stand for? In this short solo episode, we examine the wave of corporate rollbacks on diversity, equity, and inclusion—from Target and Amazon to McDonald’s and Coca-Cola—and what these choices say about brand integrity.We’ll dig into:Why DEI isn’t a “nice-to-have,” but a business imperativeThe backlash companies like Target are facing from consumers and investors alikeHow younger, more diverse audiences are demanding more from brandsWhy retreating from DEI can cost you both brand equity and customer loyaltyBrought to you by Mekanism.
He built Thrillist. He bet on media. Now Ben Lerer is navigating a world obsessed with AI.In this episode, Jason sits down with Ben Lerer, co-founder of Thrillist, creator of Group Nine Media, and now Managing Partner at Lerer Hippeau. They talk about the shifting tides of media, tech, and early-stage investing. From building one of the first great digital brands to navigating the rise of creators, platforms, and AI, Ben shares hard-earned insights on what it takes to survive—and thrive—through disruption.Key Takeaways:✅ Media brands chased scale, but the platforms took the audience (and the money)✅ In today’s startup world, no AI in the pitch means something’s off✅ Cost-cutting kills companies; real growth comes from bold bets✅ Great founders—not trends—should guide where you investMemorable Moments:💡 “The winners weren’t the publishers—it was the pipes.”💡 “We almost named it Ape Alert. That would’ve been a disaster.”💡 “If I need a calendar reminder to make a decision, it’s a no.”💡 “We believe founders are smarter than us. If we’re around great talent, we’ll end up in interesting markets.”Brought to you by Mekanism.
Launching a new product is never easy. But doing it during economic uncertainty? That’s a whole different challenge.In this mini episode, we explore how today’s shifting landscape—from tariffs to market instability—requires a smarter, more agile approach.Jason shares three core principles that can help entrepreneurs and innovators not just survive, but thrive during turbulent times. Key Takeaways:Agility beats the grand revealFocus on value without slashing pricesHarness power of community and brand trustBrought to you by Mekanism.
Not every brand explodes. Some rise slowly, and win big.In this episode, Jason talks with Nicholas Karrat, CMO of StockX, about the Soul & Science of marketplace models—and what it takes to build brand trust, cultural relevance, and business performance at the same time. A veteran marketer with experience across Fortune 100 companies and DTC startups, Nick has held leadership roles at AT&T, Citibank, Plated, Boll & Branch, and Tommy John. Now at the helm of marketing for StockX, he’s focused on staying true to the brand’s core while expanding its reach.Key Takeaways:✅ Every channel is both brand and performance—the only difference is timing.✅ Scarcity still drives urgency, but discovery starts earlier than ever.✅ Trust and authentic storytelling beat polish when you’re building for the culture.✅ For trend-driven products, TikTok fuels demand in real time.✅ Great CMOs trust their instincts and adapt with the people on their team.Memorable Moments:💡 “Everything we do is brand and everything we do is performance, whether you like it or not.”💡 “Now you know” isn’t just a tagline. It’s how culture spreads.💡 “People and vision beat category and paycheck. Every time.”Brought to you by Mekanism.
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