Learning Through Experience

What if the institutions we rely on—our workplaces, schools, and legal systems—aren’t built for full participation? And what if real change starts not from the top, but in small, intentional spaces we create ourselves? In this episode Heidi Brooks and legal scholar and change-maker Susan Sturm explore the paradoxes of institutional transformation, and how facing uncertainty–rather than seeking to eliminate it–can create new possibilities for participation, collaboration and justice.  Drawing from her new book, What Might Be: How Universities and Other Institutions Can Change, Susan shares how we can confront the tensions within our systems—between power and powerlessness, justice and exclusion, certainty and humility—without rushing to resolve them. Through personal stories and deep insights, she introduces the concept of micro spaces of justice—small but intentional environments where people model the institutional change they wish to see. These spaces, she argues, offer a path forward amid today’s polarization and institutional inertia.  This episode invites listeners to rethink their role in shaping institutions, reimagining power, and embracing paradox as a source of transformation. Listen now and join the conversation on what might be possible. Learning Through Experience is produced through the Yale School of Management. What resonates with you about this conversation? We’d love to hear from you—reach out to LTEpodcast@yale.edu. And subscribe to the monthly LinkedIn newsletter for additional insights and reflections about episode topics and questions to ponder.  Watch this episode on YouTube. Resources 📘 Susan Sturm’s book: What Might Be: Confronting Racism to Transform Our Institutions(Princeton University Press, 2025). Explore Susan’s vision for full participation and the paradoxes at the heart of institutional change. 🎭 Theater of Change at Columbia Law SchoolBased on a methodology developed by Susan Sturm, Theater of Change is a collaboration between the Broadway Advocacy Coalition and Columbia Law School, bringing together law students, artists, and directly impacted individuals to co-create justice through performance and policy. 📝 Essay: “Paradoxical Possibility: Embracing Anti-Racism Contradictions” A compelling companion essay to What Might Be, Susan Sturm offers further insight into navigating paradox in the pursuit of justice. Show Notes & Key Moments 2:15 – Holding Contradictions: Beauty, Tragedy and Institutional Change A photograph of 9/11 memorial candles sparks a key theme: learning to sit with paradox. “I find myself in spaces of contradiction all the time. The challenge is learning how to be in both places at once.” 3:24 – Three Defining ExperiencesSusan shares what led her to this work: a complex family upbringing, navigating power and powerlessness in the legal system, and a transformational collaboration with Lani Guinier. 6:13 – Why Institutions Struggle with Full ParticipationNo institution gets it right—but that doesn’t mean change isn’t possible. “The work is in moving closer, not waiting for perfection.” 9:01 – The Role of Everyday LeadershipReal change isn’t just top-down. Susan challenges listeners: What’s your role in making your workplace or community more participatory? 14:57 – Micro Spaces of Justice: Change Starts SmallInspired by Adrienne Maree Brown’s idea of fractals, these intentional spaces allow us to practice the world we want to see. “They show us what’s possible—even before the larger institution is ready.” 14:41 – Why Change Requires Practice–and Why Lawyers Struggle with this WorkTransformation isn’t a quick fix. “It takes practice, patience, and a willingness to fail forward.”Legal training reinforces certainty and authority—often at the cost of flexibility and relational intelligence. “The best lawyers, and the best leaders, learn to hold complexity.” 27:23 – The Power of Paradox: Making Sense of the Messy Middle Creating just institutions means navigating tensions that don’t have easy answers. Susan explores three key paradoxes—about power, identity, and the institutions themselves—that must be understood to drive meaningful change. 34:44 – What Can We Do? Moving from Awareness to Action Understanding these paradoxes is one thing—acting on them is another. Susan and Heidi explore concrete ways to make change, from shifting mindsets to building micro spaces of justice. 39:21 – Vulnerability as LeadershipReal growth begins when we stop fearing mistakes. “Transformation happens when people are allowed to fail safely.” 41:45 – Learning in PublicHeidi shares how she’s experimenting with vulnerability and growth in her own teaching spaces. “There’s so much here between us. We’re walking the path in real time.”

What if the challenges you’re facing aren’t obstacles—but invitations to grow? In this episode, Heidi Brooks and leadership expert Jennifer Garvey Berger explore how we grow through uncertainty, not just survive it. They also discuss why change is essential for leaders, how to turn everyday challenges into opportunities for growth and why embracing imperfection might be the key to thriving in an anxious world. Sharing insights from her book Changing on the Job, Jennifer talks about the power of character development, the conditions that make learning possible and the small but profound shifts that help us navigate complexity. She and Heidi unpack a paradox of leadership today—where we admire vulnerability in others but still strive for perfection ourselves. Together, they ask: What if the difficulties we encounter are actually the curriculum for our growth? Whether you're a leader facing high-stakes decisions or simply looking to approach change with more courage and curiosity, this conversation will challenge the way you think about learning, leading and transformation. Learning Through Experience is produced through the Yale School of Management. What resonates with you about this conversation? We’d love to hear from you—reach out to LTEpodcast@yale.edu. And subscribe to the LinkedIn newsletter for additional insights and reflections about the episode topics and takeaways. Watch this episode on YouTube. Show Notes & Key Moments 2:40 – From Teaching English to Coaching LeadersJennifer shares how her early love of storytelling and character development led her to leadership coaching: "I’ve always been fascinated by how people grow and change. Now, instead of just reading stories, I get to help co-author them in real time." 5:00 – When Change Becomes UnavoidableThe most meaningful transformations happen when people recognize that their old ways of thinking no longer serve them: “My favorite experiences are when people say, ‘Hey, me—I need to be different.’” 11:30 – Work as a School for AdulthoodJennifer challenges the assumption that personal growth stops after childhood: “We hit 20, and suddenly there’s no more context for growth. But workplaces should be the schools of adulthood.” 22:00 – The Conditions That Make Learning PossibleInstead of resisting difficulties, what if we saw them as part of our learning curriculum? Growth requires both challenge and support: “Organizations know how to push people, but they often forget to create the scaffolding that helps people rise to the challenge.” 35:00 – Noticing the Invisible Forces That Shape UsThe first step in transformation isn’t action—it’s awareness: “Can I begin to notice more? The assumptions I carry? The way I react? The invisible currents shaping me?” 39:00 – Experimenting with New Ways of BeingJennifer encourages small, intentional experiments in daily leadership: “Could this meeting be a learning event? Could I approach this conversation differently?” 42:00 – The Surprising Lesson of AI & Human ConnectionHeidi and Jennifer discuss why some people find AI more “empathetic” than humans—and what that tells us about the way we show up for each other. 45:00 – The Lifelong Practice of Growth Something to sit with: “Getting behind our growth can be painful, but it’s also the greatest relief.”

Creative expression is essential for everyone—to think differently, connect deeply and thrive through uncertainty. In the Season 4 premiere of Learning Through Experience, Heidi Brooks welcomes Ivy Ross and Susan Magsamen, co-authors of Your Brain on Art, for a thought-provoking conversation about how engaging with art can help shape the way we learn, collaborate and navigate life’s complexities. Ivy and Susan share their personal journeys into the worlds of art and neuroscience, revealing how aesthetic experiences, whether through music, visual art or movement, can rewire the brain, strengthen emotional wellbeing and foster connection. They explore the science behind neuroplasticity and the role of sensory engagement in daily life. This episode is an invitation to reimagine learning and leadership, inspiring listeners to embrace art—not just as a form of expression but as a tool for building resilience, expanding perspective and finding wonder in the everyday.  Learning Through Experience is produced through the Yale School of Management. For deeper insights and reflections about each episode, subscribe to the LinkedIn newsletter. What resonates with you about this conversation? We’d love to hear from you—reach out to LTEpodcast@yale.edu.  Watch this episode on YouTube. Show Notes & Key Moments 00:00 | Welcome to Season 4: How Art Helps Us Face UncertaintyHeidi Brooks introduces the season’s theme of “facing uncertainty” and why experiences with art are essential in uncertain times. Ivy and Susan reflect on the growing impact of Your Brain on Art and the movement it has sparked. 01:54 | The Unexpected Paths to Creative ExpressionSusan shares how her twin sister's health journey inspired faith in art's healing powerand sparked her lifelong interest in art and neuroscience. Ivy recalls how growing up in a maker’s home led her to a career at the intersection of creativity, business and human potential. 08:41 | Why Experiencing Art Matters—-Even If You’re Not an ArtistSimply listening to music, viewing a painting or standing in awe of architecture can spark emotional and neurological shifts that help us feel more connected, grounded and resilient. Heidi shares her experience bringing art into leadership education at Yale. 12:22 | Unlocking Your Brain Through Sensory Experiences Susan explains how sensory experiences activate neural pathways that support memory, learning and improved mental health. The arts, she argues, are essential for cognitive and emotional well-being. 19:09 | Relearning How to Feel, Not Just ThinkIvy challenges the common belief that learning happens only through thinking, emphasizing that we are feeling beings first. They discuss why the arts should be central—not optional—in education. 30:02 | Can Art Make Us Better Collaborators? Yes.Ivy shares how incorporating art and creative exercises helped her build high-performing teams at Mattel and Google. The secret? Trust, play and shared sensory experiences. 35:56 | The Science of Group Flow: Why Shared Experiences MatterSusan and Ivy explore how teams can synchronize at a deep level. Ivy describes her experiment using sound frequencies to enhance brainstorming sessions. 43:30 | From Coping to Thriving: The Keys to FlourishingSusan breaks down what it takes to truly thrive—curiosity, awe, enriched environments and play—and how interfaces with art helps us build a capacity to thrive.. 46:52 | A Final Invitation to Notice MoreIvy offers a simple but profound takeaway: “Pay attention to what gets your attention.” Noticing what moves you is the first step toward living a more enriched and connected life.  Additional Resources  Your Brain on Art website: https://www.yourbrainonart.com/ What is neuroarts? https://www.yourbrainonart.com/what-is-neuroarts Aesthetic Mindset Index https://www.yourbrainonart.com/aesthetic-mindset-index Blend of science and art improving neurological health: https://www.pbs.org/video/your-brain-on-art-1685477928/ How the Arts Can Benefit Your Mental Health: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/22/well/mind/art-mental-health.html How music and dance affect your brain and body: https://www.washingtonpost.com/wellness/2023/03/02/music-dance-painting-brain-mental-health/ ‘Your Brain on Art’ explore how even bad art makes for good health: https://datebook.sfchronicle.com/books/your-brain-on-art-health-benefits-17775845

Welcome to a new season of Learning Through Experience! This season will explore something that resonates deeply with everyone right now: facing uncertainty. My conversations are with a diverse array of exceptional guests who will talk with us about how they see and experience uncertainty through their lens. Together, we’ll dig into the mindsets, practices and environments that allow us to learn, adapt and thrive, even in—perhaps especially in—these uncertain times. Welcome to Season 4. I love having you here! Watch this episode on YouTube.

Thank you for tuning in this season on the Learning Through Experience podcast! In this season 3 reflection episode, I take a step back to reflect on the key themes, conversations, and experiences that shaped the show. This season featured several insightful and impactful conversations. I highlight discussions with guests like Lisa Lahey on overcoming change, Mark Brackett on emotional intelligence and attunement, Liliana Milkova and Jenny Frederick on the definition of education, Avi Kluger on feedback, Kim Weston on personal transformation through art, and Amy Bloom on writing to be read. As the podcast looks ahead to the new season, I am grateful to the students, team members, and listeners who have supported the podcast. I am so glad you’re here! Learning Through Experience is produced through the Yale School of Management. For more insights about each episode, subscribe to the LinkedIn newsletter. Watch this episode on YouTube.

Writing has the power to transport us to the depths of the human experience – to illuminate the joys, sorrows and complexities that make us who we are. In this captivating final episode of Learning Through Experience Season Three, Amy Bloom and I explore the transformative power of the written word. Amy, an acclaimed writer and psychotherapist, shares a poignant reading from her memoir "In Love," which provides a deeply personal window into her journey with her late husband's early-onset Alzheimer's. The conversation takes us into the nuanced relationship between writing for oneself and writing for an audience, as Amy offers her thought-provoking perspective on the importance of reading diverse perspectives to enrich one's creative voice. Join us as we ponder the art of revision, strategies for creating a safe and supportive environment for student writers, and all the profound ways in which reflective writing can shape our understanding of ourselves and the human experience.  Watch this episode on YouTube.   Key Topics 4:16 Reading Aloud: “In Love: A Memoir of Love and Loss” Amy reads a powerful excerpt from her memoir "In Love" about her husband's early-onset Alzheimer's. 9:21 The Importance of Reading Diverse Perspectives Amy discusses how reading widely, beyond one’s own experiences, has shaped her as a writer, and emphasizes the value of understanding complex human emotions and motivations to create compelling characters. 13:18 Writing for Yourself vs. Writing for Others Amy draws from insights on her process of transitioning from private writing to crafting an engaging narrative for readers.  17:36 The Art of Revision and Refinement Amy describes her approach to the writing process, including the importance of starting with a vivid moment and building from there. She also emphasizes the need for constant revision and refinement to make the writing more compelling and accessible for readers. 24:53 Creating a Safe Space for Student Writers Writing can be a struggle and failure is inherent. Amy shares her experience teaching writing and the strategies she uses to foster a supportive, yet provocative, environment for students. 32:28 The Transformative Power of Reflective Writing There can be many sides, or perspectives, to any individual story. Amy explores the value of engaging deeply with one’s own stories and examining stories from multiple perspectives, while not shying away from the less heroic or pretty aspects of personal narratives. Additional Resources  Darien Library discussion on YouTube: Amy turns the lens inwards in In Love: A Memoir of Love and Loss, a courageous memoir that challenges: what are you willing to do for the one you love? And what is our own right to die? When Her Husband Said He Wanted to Die, Amy Bloom Listened - NY Times  NY Times - How to Raise a ‘Warrior Queen’: For 12 years, Yiyun Li taught her writing students a story by Amy Bloom about the power, and limitations, of love. Confronting unbearable grief, she returned to it.

Imagine a world where education isn't just about information but about inspiring awe—a spark that transforms learning into discovery. This episode of Learning Through Experience envisions this future where teaching and learning are more collaborative, experiential and empowering, for instructors and students alike. As my guest Jenny Frederick, director of Yale's Center for Teaching and Learning, emphasized in our conversation: “When experiences bring the conceptual to life—like, wow, I get it now—it can be a moment of wonder." Join us as we discuss the value of embracing ambiguity and equipping students with the skills to navigate uncertainty—a crucial capacity in our rapidly changing world. Beyond theory, we explore how disciplines bring unique strengths and shadows to the learning experience. When classrooms become spaces where curiosity sparks discovery and uncertainty fuels growth, we unlock the potential for truly transformative learning. Wonder isn’t just a feeling; it’s a force that drives connection, resilience, and creativity in education and beyond. Watch this episode on YouTube. Key Topics 7:51 Broad Horizons: The Value of Diverse Education and Career Exploration Heidi and Jenny explore the value of a broad education and exploring different career paths and discuss the metaphor of structure and function in chemistry and its relevance to teaching. 14:06 Normalizing the Learning Journey: The Mission of the Center for Teaching and Learning Jenny describes the Center for Teaching and Learning's mission to connect learning support and teaching support, and its efforts to encourage help-seeking behavior and normalize the struggle of learning. 21:05 The Student-Centered Shift: Instructors as Guides in the Learning Process Heidi and Jenny discuss the shift towards more student-centered approaches in teaching, and the role of the instructor as a facilitator or guide. 28:04 Cultivating Wonderment: Designing Relevant and Shared Learning Experiences They explore the importance of creating experiences that foster relevance, interest, and room for wonder, as well as the power of shared experiences in a co-created learning environment. 36:03 Interdisciplinary Insights: Equipping Students to Handle Ambiguity Jenny highlights the benefits of interdisciplinary programs and richer conversations, and they discuss helping students develop skills for navigating uncertainty and ambiguity. 45:04 Wrestling with Complexity: Naming Conventions and Tackling Hard Questions Heidi and Jenny explore the desire for quick answers and the value of wrestling with hard questions, as well as the importance of naming and taming disciplinary conventions to create more open learning. 54:01 A Vision for Experiential and Collaborative Education They envision a future where education is more experiential and collaborative, with the goal of making centers like Yale's obsolete by empowering the community. Additional Resources   “Educationalist: Around the World” podcast (2022) on “leading an integrated center for teaching and learning” Inside Higher Ed Q&A (2022) 

What if listening could change everything? This raw and captivating episode with guest Avi Kluger reveals how listening and the “space between” people can unlock new ways of seeing, feeling and transforming, and profoundly reshape how we lead, connect and grow.  A pioneering researcher in feedback and organizational behavior, Avi shares his personal journey to understand the power of listening and its potential to unlock unexpected depths in ourselves and others. Beyond theory, he shows us the real-world stakes of genuine human connection. In a world where productivity often overshadows humanity, this conversation is a call to reimagine our workspaces and relationships as places of connection, resilience and hope.  Watch this episode on YouTube. Key Topics 02:56 A Personal Journey: Growing Through Feedback Avi reflects on his early life and how the intense feedback he received from his father shaped his career and lifelong dedication to understanding the impact of feedback. 08:06 Limitations of Traditional Psychology and Statistics in Understanding Interpersonal Dynamics Avi discusses how his personal experiences led him to realize the limitations of traditional psychology and statistics in understanding interpersonal dynamics. 13:54 Creating Space for Change: Transformation Through Connection Heidi and Avi discuss the “invisible space” between people during meaningful interaction—a dynamic that invites growth, fosters transformation, and becomes a unique shared experience. 22:43 The “Togetherness” That Opens Us Avi introduces concepts like “positivity resonance” and “togetherness,” suggesting that growth occurs in a mutual space of connection, though such intimacy can be short-lived. 28:13 Feedforward vs. Feedback: A New Approach to Growth Avi describes “feedforward” as a process focused on growth and exploration rather than judgment, contrasting it with traditional feedback that often triggers defensiveness. 33:42 Listening as Developmental: The Art of Being Present Exploring methods for effective listening, Avi highlights the importance of being present and co-exploring with the other person, using specific questioning techniques to guide them in self-discovery. Additional Resources  The Power of Listening in Helping People Change, Harvard Business Review Positive feedback: the science of feedback that actually works, Financial Times Listening, Not Feedback: A Powerful Way to Improve Well-Being and Performance, EdWeek

Learning through experience is dynamic, not static. As you’ll hear in this episode with artist Kim Weston, her photography is a way of deepening understanding of ourselves and the world around us, seen and unseen.  Through compelling story and image, Kim takes us on a journey where each photograph tells a story of heritage, community and spirit. As she says, “Our ancestors are with us; the people we loved in the past are still beside us, even though we can’t see them with the naked eye.” Tune in to discover how Kim’s evocative work is transforming spaces and touching lives, inviting each of us to engage, reflect and experience life through the lens of art. Watch this episode on YouTube. Key Topics 03:37 Finding Art: From the Bronx to the Museum Early experiences shape lifelong learning and creativity. Kim reflects on her childhood exposure to art in New York—immersive experiences that informed her sense of self and future as an artist.  06:25 Identity Through Art Representation in art can challenge societal norms and expand our understanding of beauty and identity. Kim describes her early fascination with the strength and diversity in Renaissance paintings.  09:31 The Power of Mentorship and Community Mentorship serves as a relational experience, shaping identity and purpose. Kim recalls formative years at Jamaica Arts Center, where mentors like Thelma Golden helped her realize the potential of her work.  10:37 A Path to Spirit Photography Personal challenges can reshape our life’s work. Kim shares the transformative impact of a health crisis, leading her to capture “spirit” and energy in her photography.  20:52 Art as Community Experience at Yale Discussion about Kim’s art installation at Yale School of Management, in a shared space where students can encounter Native American cultural expressions through the images. These works invite connection and reflection, bridging personal identity with shared experience. 27:12 Movement in Stillness: Capturing the Essence of Life Heidi reflects on the “kinetic stillness” of Kim’s photographs, which capture multiple moments in one image, creating a sensation of life in motion. Kim shares the intentional artistry behind her technique, which aims to convey both presence and spirit. 30:52 Connection, Heritage and Earth Stewardship Reflect on the spiritual, experiential aspects of learning. Kim’s art is a reminder of our collective journey. Additional Resources  kimwestonimages.com + wabi.gallery @kimwestonimages + @wabigallery From Wabi Arts to Westfield, Kim Weston Grows Her Artistic Footprint (Arts Council Greater New Haven—2022)

Learning through experience requires us to shift from the purely intellectual to a more holistic engagement. I try to create that shift by opening each of my leadership classes with some form of art—a poem, a piece of music or a visual work. It’s a way of helping my students, many of whom are management or law students, executives, or leaders in their fields, step out of their typical "brain-bound" mindset and into a space where they can let their thoughts, emotions and values guide their learning. For many, it’s an inconvenient and unfamiliar approach, but it’s exactly what I believe opens their minds and hearts to walking an unconventional path toward growth.  Dr. Liliana Milkova and I share a passion for this type of experiential learning. The Nolan Curator of Education at Yale University Art Gallery, Liliana uses art to foster reflective, perspective-shifting experiences to encourage people to slow down and engage deeply with what they see and feel. Drawing on her upbringing in Bulgaria and her extensive work in art education, she shares how object-based learning can transform the way we think and connect with others. I encourage you to experience this episode by watching, versus just listening. Join us as we explore how art can shift the way we think, learn, connect and grow. Watch this episode on YouTube. Key Topics 02:19 Learning from Cultural Heritage – Growing up in Bulgaria, surrounded by historical objects, fostered Liliana’s deep connection to experiential learning, teaching her to engage with the world through observation, curiosity and reflection. 09:38 Teaching Through Art – "Teaching through art" rather than "teaching about art" catalyzes deeper, shared learning experiences—making abstract concepts more tangible through observation and personal interpretation. 14:37 Object-Based Learning – Through careful observation and multisensory experiences, learners develop critical thinking skills and form deeper connections with content. 18:00 Collaborative Learning and Perspective-Taking – Exercises like "Back-to-Back Drawing" improve communication and empathy by describing and interpreting objects from different angles. 32:39 Learning How to Learn – Developing individual strategies for processing information and engaging with experiences helps to build confidence and adapt to new situations by embracing diverse ways of thinking. 42:43 Reflection and Slowing Down – Slow down to fully engage with an object and allow time for deeper reflection. Creating space for shared insights and dialogue enhances the learning experience. Resources Explore the Yale University Art Gallery Collection The University Museums and Collections Journal (UMACJ) on how university STEM and medicine classes are utlizing art collection in teaching and learning Object-based learning resources Object Based Learning: A Powerful Pedagogy for Higher Education: A powerful pedagogy for higher education — Queen's University Belfast Engaging the Senses: Object-Based Learning in Higher Education - 1st E (routledge.com)

How do different emotions impact everyday life? And what are the kinds of experiences we want and need—in the classroom, at work, and in our own developmental trajectories—to be able to deepen our emotional wisdom so we can make better decisions and have healthier relationships? In this episode of Learning Through Experience, we dig deep into feelings with Dr. Marc Brackett. As he underscored during our conversation, “We all have emotions, whether we want them or not, and they can either help us achieve our goals or derail us.” The founding director of the Yale Center for Emotional Intelligence and professor in the Child Study Center at Yale, Marc is on a mission to ensure everyone gets an education in emotion and learns to navigate emotion effectively. After all, emotions are not going away; we have to learn to work with them wisely. Watch this episode on YouTube. Key Topics 2:54 An Emotional Journey – Marc reflects on his childhood experiences, including bullying and abuse, and an uncle who came into his life “at the right time, at the right place, with the right context,” greatly impacting his professional trajectory. 5:55 Learning Emotion Across the Lifespan – There’s a need for emotional education at every stage of life. 9:47 Emotions in the Workplace: A New Perspective – Organizations can create spaces for emotional expression. And they must; emotions influence performance and satisfaction at work. 20:51 The RULER Framework for Emotional Intelligence – Helping people develop emotional intelligence and fosters healthier emotional interactions in relationships and workplaces 32:29 Building Connection Through Listening – Getting to know people's stories to build true emotional understanding is paramount. 34:05 Cultivating Emotional Well-being – Practical strategies for enhancing emotional well-being at work, including intentional scheduling and creating spaces where people feel appreciated and heard. 39:45 The Future of Tech and Emotional Intelligence: There’s an app for that. AI can help us track our emotions and receive personalized suggestions for emotional regulation. Additional Resources from Marc Permission to Feel: Unlocking the Power of Emotions to Help Our Kids, Ourselves, and Our Society Thrive How We Feel app Dealing with Feelings webcast Yale Center for Emotional Intelligence  RULER Selected scholarly articles   

How can we overcome change and learn to create a better experience at work—for ourselves and our teams? To launch us into Season Three of Learning Through Experience, my first guest explores with me the pedagogy of hope and transformation, focusing on interpersonal and group dynamics. As Dr. Lisa Lahey aptly put it during our conversation, “When we invest in our relationships and our own development, we pave the way for a more hopeful and transformative future.” A renowned author on adult education and development, Lisa specializes in identifying personal and organizational impediments to change, and helping them unpack and understand these insights to ultimately break free of unproductive habits in order to achieve their goals. Watch this episode on YouTube. Key Topics 05:34 Formative experiences – Lisa shares two personal experiences that shaped her commitment to (and emphasized the importance of) listening and understanding group dynamics 08:06 Adult development theory – Introduction to adult development theory and its impact on personal growth 09:11 Navigating personal relationships – The challenges of balancing personal relationships and self-identity 12:13 The role of development – Emphasis on the necessity of personal development to navigate workplace challenges 16:09 Distinguishing learning and development – The difference between learning and deeper personal development 19:09 The role of others in development – How interpersonal relationships can support or hinder personal growth 30:50 Immunity to Change approach – How the immunity to change approach can help individuals and groups overcome barriers to personal and professional growth; applying the framework in the workplace 35:00 Future of work – How the evolving nature of work requires a shift in mindset toward collaboration and shared leadership Additional Resources from Lisa Vox—I’ve spent my career studying bad habits. Here’s what I’ve learned about breaking them. Brené Brown podcast episodes—Immunity to Change, part 1 and part 2 Putting the “Development” in Professional Development: Understanding and Overturning Educational Leaders’ Immunities to Change—a substantive piece linking adult development with ITC

Welcome to a new season of Learning Through Experience! This season will echo the cadence of one of my popular courses here at Yale since it is a learning through experience pedagogy. My conversations are with brilliant guests who help us think about how we learn through interpersonal and group experience from their area of expertise. This podcast is not just for students though—it’s for everyone who wants to co-create a future of work that is compelling, enlivening and worth fighting for. I’m glad you’re here! Watch this episode on YouTube.

Can a mindfulness practice help us at work? In a season focusing on how we learn through experience, I wanted to make sure that we heard about some of the social science that supports the practices. My guest on this episode has lived a fascinating life and has so much wisdom to share on this topic.  Lindsey Cameron is an assistant professor of management at the Wharton School, University of Pennsylvania. Her research focuses on the future of work and mindfulness. In addition to being a professor, she is also an experienced practitioner and teacher of meditation. Key Topics: 01:24 Caring about individual stories: These individual stories link to a much broader social structure - Lindsey’s career journey; 05:02 The capacity to reflect: One of the core practices of learning through experience is the capacity to reflect; 09:27 Wisdom traditions and practices: Discovering and exploring wisdom traditions and practices despite an atheist upbringing; 16:03 The power of place: Place is not just held by the work setting itself but in all the small details we add to it; 19:22 Mindfulness practices: Why, how, and when reflection mindfulness practices, especially at work, can make a difference; 27:23 The future of work: Maintaining forward momentum and agency by crafting a narrative around oneself; 34:09 Being a less conventional presence in a conventional space: We all have a role to play in creating spaces that matter; 36:15 Mindfulness as an individual practice: Mindfulness practices were never meant to be done alone, they have always been practiced within some sort of community. Additional Resources from Lindsey Website  Helping People by Being in the Present: Mindfulness Increases Prosocial Behavior Harvard Business Review: Research: When Mindfulness Does — and Doesn’t — Help at Work

How can we change and transform the education system through leadership? The Broad Center at the Yale School of Management fosters the ideas, policies, and leadership to help all students in K-12 public schools — particularly those from underserved communities — to learn and thrive.  Broad is a stellar example of the unique mission of Yale SOM: educating leaders for business and society. Since I feel connected and inspired by the mission, I appreciate how much the presence of Broad in my experience at Yale keeps me particularly connected and inspired by the noble and meaningful work of transforming the school system. In March of 2024, the Broad Fellows were part of an immersion learning experience with me. I love Broad and was inspired by the way they engaged in learning through an immersion intensive. This episode is a window into their learning experience in the interpersonal and group dynamics course.  Hanseul Kang, the executive director of the Broad Center, began her journey as a Broad Fellow. The Fellowship for Public Education Leadership is a program for public education leaders dedicated to strengthening public school systems and the communities they serve. In this episode, we also hear from current Broad Fellows: Xiomara Herman, Andrew McRae, and Jorge Robles. Key Topics: 01:48 Challenging our understanding of leadership: How the current definition of leadership is too narrow to change and transform the education system; 03:21 The limitations of defensive interpersonal dynamics: Managing complex interpersonal dynamics from a place of defensiveness or self-protection can limit leadership effectiveness; 04:49 Why the education system needs to be transformed: In addition to individual agency, there are structural forces that play a large part in the reality of many learners; 09:59 Building range and expanding leadership capacity: The hope and challenge of learning through experience; 13:30 Directing your learning as a leader: When you need to change and transform people, systems, and possibilities, it's not just about pedagogy, transaction, or expertise- it’s also about your aspirations and how you show up; 20:35 Transforming the education sector: Reflecting and inquiring about the education sector and ways of learning that hold individuals as capable of growing as human beings. Additional Resources The Broad Center Hanseul Kang Xiomara Herman Andrew McRae Jorge Robles

This podcast season is all about the HOW of learning through experience. We learn through experience using four core practices: challenging your perspective, stretching and building range, directing your learning, reflection and inquiry. The core practice that we are paying attention to in this episode of Learning Through Experience is reflection and inquiry.  In this episode, I spoke with reflective writing practitioner and teacher Stephanie Dunson about reflective practice through writing. We cover the practice of reflective writing, including the struggle of writing, and she offers some prompts for you to use in your own reflective writing practice. Stephanie is a renowned facilitator who uses writing as a tool for problem-solving and collaboration in both the academic and corporate worlds.  Key Topics: 04:24 The challenge of writing: The limits of writing towards an outcome in contrast to writing for the reflection and exploration of our own thoughts and feelings; 08:33 The meander of writing: Writing doesn’t work in a straight line, rather it follows a natural sort of meander. By meandering through a piece, we get to know the writer’s mind; 15:18 Reflective writing: The concept of using writing as a tool for deep thinking and developing relationships with complex material; 21:15 Reflective writing in groups: Engaging in the moment of making new ideas as a group and combining the strengths of the individual with the power and diversity of the group; 23:03 The practice of writing: Developing the capacity to reflect, notice, and meander as a practice in life and writing; 30:48 Prompts for reflective writing: What have you considered writing about but abandoned? Explore the places of resistance and write into that space. Additional Resources from Stephanie Dunson Podcast: 100 Mistakes Academic Writers Make …and How to Fix Them Website

This season we've been taking on HOW to learn through experience which fundamentally challenges the brain-bound assumption that learning starts and stays in the brain. We aren't so great at honoring the wisdom, expertise, and leadership that emerges from lived experience, but our own life may guide us – especially if we tap into learning practices, like reflection and challenging our perspective. My guest on this episode is a shining example of widely acknowledged wisdom and leadership gained primarily through powerful life experience. You will hear how he came to take risks without the fear of failing, and a good dose of learning through reflection in the company of others. Erik Clemons is co-founder of the Connecticut Community Outreach and Revitalization Program (ConnCORP) designed to explore and implement opportunities for economic development and investment in New Haven.  In all his work creating systems and community change, he has found that before any transformation of others takes place, you need to be personally transformed.  Erik Clemons is a natural storyteller- and his story of transforming himself and creating transformation for and with others is a joy to experience. Key Topics: 03:49 Becoming through experience: Learning the world and teaching yourself – Erik’s story of learning and becoming through experience; 10:56 From mail handler to executive director: Knowing who you are and understanding who you want to be; 15:33 The Connecticut Center for Arts and Technology: How Erik’s lived experience equipped him to understand and serve his community; 18:47 Failure as part of learning: To be truly innovative and able to create change, you need to be willing to take risks; 20:22 Transforming a major artery in New Haven: Listening to community members to create service, beauty, and dignity in a community that deserved it; 27:02 Unconscious competence: Believing in your own capacity and using all of your lived experience to find a way; 29:10 Changing systems and supporting communities: We can’t transform community unless we are willing to be transformed by community; 36:04 The power of hope: Hope is what allows striving to happen. Additional Resources from Erik Podcast episode: Building Community Wealth and Power LinkedIn ConnCORP  

Since this season of the podcast is all about the HOW of learning through experience, I wanted to talk to Annie Murphy Paul who basically wrote the book on learning outside the brain.  She’s the author of several books, and I love to talk with people after they have had a chance to learn through the experience of their book being out in the world. In this episode, we focus on The Extended Mind: The Power of Thinking Outside the Brain. Her book challenges the perspective that brain-bound cognition is the best way to learn. There are so many great nuggets in this book and in this conversation with Annie. She adds quite a bit to the conversation about HOW to extend our learning capacity beyond the brain. The brain evolved for survival in a very different era to the one we live in today, and the tasks our brains evolved to solve are so different from the tasks we are expected to do now. To more fully utilize our learning potential, we can extend the mind by utilizing the body, physical spaces, relationships with other people, and material objects.  Key Topics: 00:45 Challenging our perspective regarding social and emotional learning: As children, we are encouraged to learn from and through our environment. However, we are expected to put this kind of learning aside as we get older; 07:05 The limitations of the human brain: Understanding that the brain evolved for survival in a different era is crucial to changing the education system and preparing students for the modern world; 09:58 Bringing the body into learning: Moving the body to build range and enhance our cognitive abilities; 17:34 Restoring our attentional resources: We have a finite supply of attention, we can restore this by spending time in outdoor spaces; 24:41 Designing interior spaces to support effective thinking: We can use certain objects, symbols, and signs to extend our thinking, evoke a certain version of ourselves, and direct our learning; 33:34 Extending our thinking through experiencing people: Learning again as adults how to experience people around us as an individual and as a group. Additional Resources from Annie: Book: The Extended Mind: The Power of Thinking Outside the Brain by Annie Murphy Paul Website: anniemurphypaul.com Linkedin: Annie Murphy Paul

I love how art can take us on a journey to another way of seeing things. And, I don’t think I’m alone in thinking that the human condition is a little rough and rocky these days — so I feel drawn to opportunities to cultivate joy. In my role as Chair of the Art Committee at Yale School of Management, I have the chance to impact the space through the iconography on the walls. I wanted to do something real and uplifting. Then I met Clara Nartey and experienced her work. I am delighted to welcome her to this podcast so others can hear about her perspective and process.  In this episode, we speak about art as a reflective practice, the impact of art on education, and the power of art to encourage discussion and change minds. Clara encourages us to explore art as a means of reflection and a way to navigate difficult topics and conversations that we may have otherwise avoided.  The Joy of Living Exhibit at the Yale School of Management is a permanent exhibit by artist Clara Nartey. Clara is a textile artist and former management consultant, her exhibit at Yale is a reflection of her experience of the pandemic, and it has become a part of the context and fabric of the experience of this building.  Key Topics: 04:10 Finding your way through experience: Challenging our perspective around difficult experiences and allowing them to become learning opportunities that lead us to courageous leaps. 10:02 The journey of becoming an artist: Learning through and from opportunities as they come to you in life, stretching and building range from them. 14:50 Creativity and self-reflection during the pandemic: Reflecting on what life means and creating art and joy from that place of reflection.  17:25 Art as a reflective practice: Being in a relationship with the creative process, directing your learning, and letting the work speak to you and evolve. 19:19 The power of art to change minds: There is a stretching of mind, heart, and spirit that happens through perceiving human issues through the arts. Learn more: See Clara Nartey’s Collections on her website. Listen to Clara discuss the works in the exhibit.

In this first episode of season two, I talk with Tracee Stanley about how to have an experience of yourself through skilled and intentional rest, self-inquiry, and aligned learning. This season is about how we learn through experience using 4 core practices: Challenging your perspective, stretching and building range, directing your learning, and reflection and inquiry. Tracee’s way of working is a deep way to learn through experience—listen to hear how our conversation touches on all four of these practices that might just change your life. Tracee Stanley, a yoga teacher and bestselling author who transitioned from a successful filmmaking career in Hollywood to teaching Yoga Nidra and self-inquiry, challenges conventional ideas surrounding work culture and productivity by emphasizing the need for balance, rest, and reflection so we can leave a greater legacy behind us. Key Topics: 01:24 Learning through experience to honor a less conventional path: From successful Hollywood filmmaker to yoga teacher; 08:03 Experience can offer a thread to yourself:  There is a difference between knowing the self and coming into the self.  Certain practices can help us peel back the layers of who we are not. 10:17 Experience opens a door: How the experience of rest practice opened new possibilities  16:30 Challenging your perspective: Understanding yourself, experimenting, and learning what you truly want; 19:11 Stretching and building range: Asking questions that allow you to learn through experience and make shifts towards what you want; 25:27 Directing your learning: Using intentional rest and the space of the liminal to capture what you already know; 28:45 Reflecting and inquiring: What legacy do we want to leave behind? How attachment, aversion, and fear are keeping us from intentionally resting and leaving a legacy of exhaustion behind us. 37:09 The group is more powerful than the individual: How community can help support you as you shift old patterns and learn through experience. Additional Resources from Tracee Stanley  Practice: Grounding Deep Relaxation Website: https://www.traceestanley.com/ Books: The Luminous Self: Sacred Yogic Practices and Rituals to Remember Who You Are  |  Radiant Rest: Yoga Nidra for Deep Relaxation & Awakened Clarity