The MarketingKind podcast

“Vested interests. And lack of political will.”That’s what Kate Pickett believes is holding us back from taking needed action to tackle inequality and build a good society.In this episode Paul Skinner, founder of MarketingKind, interviews Kate Pickett, OBE, bestselling author of The Spirit Level and Professor of Epidemiology at the University of York, to explore the ideas in her latest book The Good Society: And How We Make It.The Good Society builds on Kate’s previous work in The Spirit Level and Inner Level to set out how we can achieve a society that prioritises equality and wellbeing. One that’s economic policies drive higher standards in education, health and social care and criminal justice for all.She shares how inequality is linked to many of the things we think of as a good society. It is linked to health and wellbeing, education, social cohesion, and how we approach the environment. And many political scientists are currently studying the impacts of inequality on democracy.One of things that has most surprised people from Kate’s research has been that even people at the higher end of the income scale or education scale are negatively impacted by living in a country that has high inequality. Though, of course, those at the bottom of these scales are the most impacted.Kate is optimistic about the potential for the new proposed International Panel on Inequality (IPI) as a new global expert body similar to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). Kate proposes a new government body, like SAGE, with a panel of social scientists to advise on policies that can help tackle inequality. They would be able to weigh up the evidence and costs of proposed policies to help overcome the gap between what the evidence tells us and how to take action on it.She also believes we should be having big public conversations now about how to survive the shifting labour market and all of the other societal changes that are happening rapidly due to AI.She says we need to build consensus around what we want the future to look like and citizen assemblies are one way to do that. This can be done at a local, regional or national level.Many of the ideas in the book would require a bigger state, at least in the short term, to achieve and Kate concedes that trust in politics would need to improve before that was likely to happen.She says that a bigger state could be more cost effective. Underinvestment has created expensive problems to solve, so we’re constantly trying to patch up the many problems we’ve created. A lot of the stats that she and Richard were interested in in The Spirit Level actually started to go down during the austerity years, such as life expectancy and infant mortality (quite an important marker of the quality of health provision). “I don’t think we need a nanny state or a bigger state for everything, but if we look around the world at the things we would like to have, better education, better health, better social care, those are bigger states.”As individuals, Kate says that anything we do as active citizens is helpful. It can be as simple as voting or it could be our activities through our work, our volunteering or our conversations with family and friends. She advised us to spend more time with people who’ve had different life experiences to our own.If you have not yet read it, you can pick up a copy of The Good Society here.

In this episode Paul Skinner, founder of MarketingKind and the Agency of the Future and author of Collaborative Advantage and The Purpose Upgrade, sets out his take on “Enterprise in an Everything Emergency” from HR Week Lithuania in September 2025.The title may sound provocative, but Paul believes it is a valid description of the environment in which our organisations now have to operate. For anyone in doubt, consider the state of global conflict, our rapidly changing climate and the apocalyptic questions currently explored in the media with regards to the risks posed by AI.The temptation, when faced with constant disruption, is to focus on the next thing to manage:The next crisis.The next technology.The next market shock.The next set of changed expectations.But perhaps a more fundamental question is: what is missing, the lack of which is giving rise to these things in the first place?If we spend all our time fighting fires we risk becoming good at surviving the short term, while failing to ever lay the groundwork for a truly resilient longer term.The challenges we face in business today go beyond solving a series of crises. They reach far more deeply into the nature of how enterprises can flourish in today’s disrupted macro environment. And this epsiode contains Paul’s vision for how to address this.

Can marketing help rebuild the centre ground of British politics?In this episode Paul Skinner and Anna Mullenneaux, co-founders of MarketingKind, introduce, Peter Seymour, former VP of Marketing & Strategy for Europe at Mondelez. Peter shares his journey from consumer marketing into political marketing, and explores what politicians could learn from the world of brands.Peter’s starting point is simple: politics isn’t just about the facts — it’s about how people feel.Drawing on his experience as a marketer, Peter explains how skills such as understanding your audience, creative storytelling and balancing a P&L can be applied to political marketing. He also shares how he is using these skills to support Centre, a cross-party centrist think tank working to develop practical solutions to some of Britain’s biggest challenges.Peter explores:- Why understanding what people feel is as important as understanding what they think- What politicians can learn from customer insight and brand strategy- Why centrist politicians need to focus less on anger and more on the issues that matter to voters- What recent political communications from the UK's main parties can teach us about effective, and ineffective, marketing- Why the political centre needs a compelling overarching vision- What the far left and far right understand about political storytelling and mobilisation- What More in Common research tells us voters care most about: the cost of living, immigration and community cohesion- How making housing, education, healthcare and energy more affordable will help address inequalityThis is a fascinating conversation about the intersection of marketing, politics, psychology and social change.We invite all marketers to consider how the skills we use to build brands could also help rebuild trust, find common ground and create a more constructive political conversation.Learn more about Centre think tank here.And learn more about MarketingKind membership here.

How can we make the "new economy", just "the economy"?In this episode Paul Skinner, founder of MarketingKind, interviews Jo Swinson, former MP and leader of the Liberal Democrats, author of Equal Power and Director of Partners for a New Economy, to explore this question and more.If you're interested in how business, politics and civil society can work together to create a fairer, more sustainable future, this conversation offers fresh thinking, practical insights and reasons for optimism.In this episodeWe discuss Jo's time in politics (including co-founding a cross-party parliamentary group dedicated to wellbeing economics), why she wrote Equal Power, and her current role as Director of Partners for a New Economy (a philanthropic collective dedicated to funding initiatives transforming economic thinking and practice).Jo shares that although the narratives around wellbeing have gone up and down over time, the last OECD conference on wellbeing, for instance, attracted huge numbers of participants and high level government representatives from around the world.She inspires us with antidotes to polarisation, agency to change gender norms (which are unhelpful for both men and women), and how we might create public demand for significant change. Why listen?This isn't just a conversation about economics. It's about the stories we tell, the systems we create and the choices that shape the future.Whether you're a marketer, business leader, policymaker or changemaker, you'll come away with new perspectives on how we can build an economy that delivers prosperity, wellbeing and opportunity for more people.Continue the conversationPaul highlights the crossover between this discussion and our previous xChanges with Tim Jackson on The Care Economy, Will Hutton on the ‘We society’, Polly Mackenzie on purposeful enterprise and Andy Burnham on devolution to counter the silos of central government.Jo recommendsThe Dad ShiftOf Boys and MenOn Tyranny: Twenty Lessons From the Twentieth CenturyThe Economy of FrancescoSmartphone Free Childhood

What if the biggest barrier to creating a better economy isn't a lack of purpose—but how we define success?"Reforming capitalism begins with redefining success. This is an invitation to rethink what we value, and to govern accordingly — a diagnosis of our economic malaise and a manifesto for a more sustainable future."— Financial Times review of Beyond ProfitIn this episode we're joined by ⁠Dr Victoria Hurth⁠, pracacademic, speaker, consultant, Fellow of the University of Cambridge Institute of Sustainability Leadership (CISL) and co-author of ⁠Beyond Profit: Purpose-Driven Leadership for a Wellbeing Economy⁠.If you're interested in building organisations that create long-term value for people, society and the planet, not just shareholders, this conversation will challenge how you think about leadership, governance and business success.Victoria explains why purpose alone isn't enough. Real change happens when governance, accountability and decision-making systems are designed to reward outcomes that improve wellbeing alongside financial performance.In this episode, you'll discover:Why redefining organisational success is essential to solving today's biggest social and environmental challenges.How better governance shapes organisational behaviour more effectively than good intentions alone.Why even values-led organisations can lose their way without the right structures and oversight.What a wellbeing economy looks like in practice and what it means for leaders today.How the forthcoming international standard for Purpose-Driven Organisations (ISO 37011), expected in early 2027, could transform organisational governance.Why "business as usual" thinking is holding back innovation and limiting our ability to tackle systemic problems.Whether you're a business leader, marketer, board member or changemaker, you'll come away with practical ideas for leading organisations that create sustainable value for everyone.ResourcesJoin the ISO 37011 LinkedIn community to follow developments around the new Purpose-Driven Organisations standard.Get your copy of Beyond Profit: Purpose-Driven Leadership for a Wellbeing Economy.Learn more about Dr Victoria Hurth's work and research.And you can learn more about MarketingKind membership here.