Cleave: The Podcast

After our 2-hour conversation with Brooke Hogan, we sat down to recap it — and ended up asking each other questions we'd never asked before. What would we do differently with today's wisdom? Why did Ashley keep Jon out of the hardest family conversations? And why does healing cost you friendships, not just family?We talk about loving your family while that love gets used against you, why fame and money don't protect anyone from family dysfunction, the grief that comes with growth, finding common ground in Christ, and the courage it takes to tell your story.🎄 FREE WORKSHOP — Surviving the Holidays Without Losing Yourselfhttps://www.leavethencleave.com/holidays💬 THE CLEAVE COMMUNITY — try it free for 14 daysSupport groups, the Christlike Boundaries Book Club, and weekly Live With Jon & Ashley calls.https://www.leavethencleave.com/community📖 Christlike Boundaries: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0H1N9ZMW4📖 Leave Then Cleave: https://www.leavethencleave.com/store🤝 Coaching: https://www.leavethencleave.com/clarifyingconversations✉️ The Weekly Note: https://mailchi.mp/b3af0d2c89b2/cleave-podcast-newsletter🖼️ The Collected House: https://thecollectedhouse.co🎧 Listen to our full conversation with Brooke Hogan: https://open.spotify.com/episode/44cU3X7GRVeovlwHE4bQLzFollow us: Instagram & TikTok @leave_then_cleave

We sat down with Brooke Hogan for an honest, vulnerable conversation about family estrangement — including her relationships with her dad, Hulk Hogan, her mom, Linda Hogan, and her brother, Nick Hogan — and having the courage to build a life that feels like your own.What happens when you decide the hard patterns in your family stop with you?Can you love your family and still need distance?Can you grieve what you hoped a relationship would be while choosing something different for your future?How do you move forward when you don't have everything figured out?If those questions feel familiar, we hope you'll spend some time with this conversation. Brooke shared with openness and heart, and we're thankful she trusted us with her story.If someone comes to mind while you're listening, send them this episode. It might be a conversation you'll want to have together.Disclaimer: The content of Cleave: The Podcast is for educational and reflective purposes only. Jon and Ashley Lefrandt are not licensed therapists, psychologists, counselors, or medical professionals. Nothing in this episode constitutes or should be construed as therapy, counseling, medical advice, legal advice, or pastoral counseling, and it should not be used as a substitute for professional care. If you are experiencing a mental health crisis, please contact a licensed professional in your area or call 988 (Suicide and Crisis Lifeline). By listening, you agree to our Terms of Service (leavethencleave.com/terms). © Eterna Home LLC dba Leave Then Cleave. All rights reserved.Join the Cleave Community — weekly lives, small support groups, and people who understand: https://www.leavethencleave.com/communityWatch the full conversation on YouTube: https://youtu.be/XpAuFu7JVCUChristlike Boundaries and our other books: https://www.leavethencleave.com/storeFollow Leave Then CleaveInstagram: @leave_then_cleaveBrooke Hogan Instagram: @mizzhoganTikTok: @leave_then_cleaveFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/Livingintruthproject

What happens when a family becomes more committed to protecting its image than confronting the truth?The Emperor’s New Clothes was written nearly 200 years ago, but it may be one of the most powerful illustrations of an unhealthy family system.Everyone can see what’s happening.Everyone participates in the illusion.And then one person finally says what nobody else is willing to say.Suddenly, the problem isn’t the emperor anymore.The problem becomes the person who pointed it out.In this episode of Cleave Answers, Jon explores what this classic story can teach us about dysfunctional family systems, image management, enabling, conformity, scapegoating, boundaries, and the difficult role of the family truth-teller or cycle breaker.Why do people go along with behavior they privately recognize as unhealthy? Why can naming dysfunction feel more threatening to a family system than the dysfunction itself? And what happens when you finally stop trying to convince everyone else to see what you see?We also explore an important caution for cycle breakers: healing isn’t about exposing, humiliating, or endlessly trying to prove that you were right.Sometimes healing is much quieter.You don’t have to attack the emperor. You can simply stop applauding the clothes.If you’ve ever wondered why telling the truth seemed to make you the problem, this episode is for you.

Father’s Day can bring up a lot more than celebration.For some, it brings gratitude. For others, it brings grief, longing, anger, regret, or the ache of a relationship that is not what it should have been.In this episode, Jon shares a deeply personal reflection on fatherhood, grief, generational legacy, and the kind of man he is striving to become. He talks about losing his own father to brain cancer, the grief that still lives in the body, the stories of the men who came before him, and the painful reality that some people grieve fathers who are still alive because of estrangement, pride, broken trust, or emotional harm. This episode is about the legacy good fathers leave behind — not money, image, status, or worldly success, but presence, integrity, humility, repentance, protection, faith, and love.It is also for anyone who is trying to become healthier than the family system they came from.Whether you are grieving a father who has passed away, grieving a father who is still living, navigating estrangement, trying to heal a father wound, or simply wanting to become a more Christlike parent, this conversation is an invitation to reflect on what really matters.Good fathers do not have to be perfect.But they should be willing to tell the truth, own their mistakes, honor their families, and choose integrity over image.Learn more from Jon and Ashley at Leave Then Cleave.👇 Start here:📖 Get a free chapter of Christlike Boundaries:https://www.leavethencleave.com/christlike-boundaries-free-chapter📖 Get a free chapter of Leave Then Cleave:https://www.leavethencleave.com/free-chapter🎙️ Listen to Cleave: The Podcast:Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cleave-the-podcast/id1727634410Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4n4moys6tyb5hrmkbkkk3o?si=a0611fc0c69a42c4💬 Need help navigating family pressure, estrangement, boundaries, or reconciliation?Learn more about Clarity Conversations here:https://www.leavethencleave.com/clarifyingconversations📚 Books by Jon & Ashley:Christlike Boundaries: https://a.co/d/0j8P1FuJLeave Then Cleave: https://a.co/d/07Avn2OfSubscribe for more conversations on Christian boundaries, family systems, emotional safety, marriage, estrangement, grief, and healing.#FathersDay #Fatherhood #Grief #ChristianBoundaries #FamilyEstrangement #FatherWound #Legacy #ChristianFamily #MarriageAndFamily #EmotionalHealing

DescriptionCan reconciliation happen if someone refuses to acknowledge what they did?In Part 2 of this Q&A conversation, we talk about what reconnecting should look like after no contact, especially when the other person refuses to admit wrongdoing or take accountability.We also address the belief that family estrangement is always caused by Satan or evil forces trying to destroy families — and why that idea can sometimes be used to pressure people back into unhealthy systems.In this episode, we discuss reconciliation, accountability, forgiveness, family estrangement, spiritual manipulation, red flags, green flags, and how to seek God with real intent.If you missed Part 1, we recommend starting there first.Join us for the Christlike Boundaries Workshop on June 30th:Get Christlike Boundaries on Amazon. Or... read the first chapter for FREE. Click here.