CMO Chapters Podcast with Lucy Bolan

For the final episode of Season 3, Lucy chats with Jo Rao, newly appointed Chief Marketing Officer at Wink, about a career that started in a very different place – as an 18-year-old receptionist at the West Coast Eagles.Jo never set out with a perfectly mapped career plan. In fact, she didn’t initially even know that the things she was doing at the Eagles were marketing. She simply kept putting her hand up, taking on new challenges and finding her way.Over 26 years later, that curiosity has taken her through sport, entertainment, financial services, retail, lifestyle and hospitality, and ultimately to the CMO role.In this episode, Jo talks honestly about the twists and turns along the way – the opportunities, the setbacks, the redundancies, the moments of resilience and the lessons she’s picked up about knowing when to say yes and, just as importantly, when to say no.She also shares her thoughts on personal brand, building genuine relationships, why younger marketers have plenty to teach senior leaders, what it really means to have a seat at the executive table and why understanding customers, revenue and the wider business matters so much.And as AI continues to reshape marketing, Jo believes we may find ourselves coming back to some of the fundamentals – creativity, communication, emotional connection and being human.A great conversation to finish Season 3, particularly for anyone early in their career who doesn't have it all figured out yet.What You’ll Learn in This Episode:Why you don't need a perfectly mapped-out career plan to build a successful careerHow saying yes to opportunities outside your job description can open unexpected doorsWhy learning when to say no is just as important as learning when to say yesThe role resilience plays in building a long-term career in marketingHow to build genuine professional relationships without trying to manufacture a “personal brand”Why networking can feel awkward, even when you're naturally outgoingWhy younger marketers have just as much to bring to the table as experienced leadersThe importance of understanding customers and having the voice of the customer represented at executive levelWhy CMOs need to understand revenue, profitability and the wider business – not just the marketing budgetHow the role of the CMO is evolving as AI changes the marketing landscapeWhy creativity, communication and emotional connection will continue to matterJo's advice to her 28-year-old self – and why sometimes the best thing you can do is keep goingResources & MentionsAustralian Marketing Institute (AMI) – Jo's professional community and a key part of her career networkCertified Practising Marketer (CPM) – Jo's professional accreditationConnect with Our Guest:Follow Jo Rao on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jo-rao/Follow the Podcast & New Chapter Talent:Instagram: @NewChapterTalentLinkedIn: New Chapter Talent || CMO Chapters PodcastThis podcast is brought to you by New Chapter Talent recruitment. If you're hunting for a fulfilling new role or seeking the right talent for your company, contact Lucy Bolan today!Website: https://www.newchaptertalent.com.au/contact-usLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-chapter-talent/Email: [email protected]

In this episode of CMO Chapters, Lucy Bolan sits down with Michael McConville, Founder of Free Studio, for a refreshingly honest conversation about careers, leadership, confidence and what it really means to find your own way.Michael's career hasn't followed a neat, five-year-plan kind of path. From tourism and travelling the world to newspapers, advertising and senior leadership roles across some of the industry's biggest agencies, his career has been shaped by curiosity, hard work, a willingness to take a few big leaps and, in his words, simply trying to get good.Lucy and Michael talk about the leadership lessons he's picked up along the way, including why collecting experiences matters more than chasing titles, the role of luck in a successful career, and how important it is to eventually stop trying to be an "impersonation of a professional person" and become comfortable being yourself.They also explore the thinking behind Free Studio, Michael's alternative approach to the traditional agency model, why so much brilliant creative and marketing talent is currently sitting outside full-time roles, and what separates the clients who get genuinely brilliant work from those who don't.It's an open, funny and thoughtful conversation about leadership, confidence, agency culture, curiosity and the importance of being a good egg.What You'll Learn in This Episode:Why Michael believes getting good at your craft matters more than chasing the next titleHow collecting different experiences can build better judgement and confidenceWhy taking a few calculated leaps can change the direction of your careerThe role of luck, timing and other people in a successful careerWhat led Michael to create Free Studio and challenge the traditional agency modelWhy so much talented creative, marketing and advertising talent is currently outside full-time employmentWhat separates the clients who get genuinely brilliant work from those who don'tWhy trust and clarity are at the heart of strong client-agency relationshipsHow becoming comfortable with who you are can make you better at what you doWhy leaders have a responsibility to build confidence in the people around themThe importance of curiosity, asking questions and being willing to say "I don't know"Michael's advice for the next generation of marketers and advertisersKey Takeaways:Get good before you get ambitious - Michael wasn't focused on reaching a particular title. His approach was to do the work, get better and collect the experiences that would ultimately give him confidence in his decision-making.Your career doesn't have to be linear - Michael's path has taken plenty of unexpected turns. Rather than seeing those experiences as distractions, he sees them as valuable pieces of a much bigger picture.Luck matters too - Hard work can take you a long way, but Michael is refreshingly honest about the role luck and timing have played in his career. Recognising that can keep success in perspective.Trust is a two-way street - The strongest client-agency relationships aren't built on blind faith. They're built on trust earned by both sides, clear expectations and a shared understanding of what good looks like.Authenticity makes you better - Michael talks about reaching a point where he stopped trying to be an impersonation of a professional person and became comfortable being himself. He believes that freedom made him better at his job, not less professional.Good leadership builds confidence - For Michael, leadership isn't about the big motivational speech. It's about training, guidance, patience, teamwork and giving people exposure to opportunities that help them discover what they're capable of.Stay interested - Michael's advice to the next generation is simple: ask questions, be curious and don't worry about whether you're supposed to already know the answer. You'll learn faster and get more out of the people around you.Be a good egg - Perhaps the simplest lesson of the episode. Be yourself, be interested in other people, treat them well and enjoy the connection that comes from it.Resources & Mentions:Free Studio – Michael’s creative studio and the business he launched after his agency career.News Corp – Where Michael began his career after transitioning into marketing.Australian Times – Michael’s time in London, working in sales and marketing, and an important part of his journey into advertising.WCRS – One of the agencies Michael worked with during his time in the UK.Adam & Eve – Referenced in the conversation around Michael’s agency experience and the creative industry.JWT – Michael’s experience working across multi-agency teams, including the Ford account.Wunderman – Part of the multi-agency Ford team Michael worked within.Mindshare – Another agency involved in the Ford account and Michael’s experience of collaborative client-agency teams.Ogilvy PR – Part of the multi-agency team Michael worked with on Ford.Free Studio’s approach to talent and agency work – Michael talks about the changing agency model, accessing specialist talent and creating a more flexible way of working.Memorable Quotes:💬 “I just really wanted to get good.”💬 “It was about collecting experiences I need to be able to inform my decision making.”💬 “You don't land in those sorts of places just because you've earned the right.”💬 “Trust is earned by both parties.”💬 “Just be yourself.”💬 “That makes me better at what I do, not worse.”💬 “Just do the work, work hard and be nice to people.”💬 “No one actually thinks you should know all the answers.”💬 “Just be a good egg.”Connect with Michael McConville:Michael McConville on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-mcconville-17175a9/Free Studio: https://free.studio/Follow the Podcast & New Chapter Talent:Instagram: @NewChapterTalentLinkedIn: New Chapter Talent || CMO Chapters PodcastThis podcast is brought to you by New Chapter Talent recruitment. If you're hunting for a fulfilling new role or seeking the right talent for your company, contact Lucy Bolan today!Website: https://www.newchaptertalent.com.au/contact-usLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-chapter-talent/Email: [email protected]:(00:00) Introduction to Michael McConville(01:18) Finding His Way Into Advertising(06:15) Getting Good at the Work — and Building a Career(08:22) From Account Leadership to Running Agencies(11:19) Mentors, Confidence and Taking Big Career Leaps(14:01) Why Michael Built Free Studio(19:18) Why So Much Great Talent Is Out of Work(22:16) What Creates Brilliant Client–Agency Relationships(26:26) Becoming Comfortable Being Yourself as a Leader(29:06) Career Advice for the Next Generation(32:56) What Leaders Need to Do Differently(35:56) The Leadership Lesson Michael Wishes He’d Learned Earlier

In this episode of CMO Chapters, Lucy Bolan sits down with Amy Maiden, Executive Manager (Visitor Economy) Ballarat City Council, Executive Manager (Visitor Economy ) at Tourism Midwest Victoria and former Chief Executive of Anthem, for a candid conversation about leadership, resilience, confidence, and the future of live entertainment.With more than two decades spent working across some of the world's most recognised entertainment brands, including Disney, West End theatre, Broadway productions and Australia's live events industry, Amy shares the experiences that have shaped her leadership journey.From learning the power of brand at Disney to navigating the devastation of the pandemic in the arts and entertainment sector, Amy offers an honest reflection on the realities of leadership, the importance of curiosity, and why the best leaders stay deeply connected to people.They also explore confidence, executive coaching, emotional maturity, and the leadership lessons that only come from navigating high-pressure environments.This is a thoughtful and refreshingly honest conversation about leading through uncertainty, building self-awareness, and creating a career that stays true to who you are.What You'll Learn in This Episode:Why curiosity is one of the most underrated leadership skillsHow Disney shaped Amy's understanding of brand, culture and visionWhy communication is one of the most important leadership capabilitiesHow to simplify complex ideas so people can rally behind themWhat leading through the pandemic taught Amy about resilience and trustWhy resilience should be used as emergency fuel, not a permanent operating systemThe role executive coaching can play in accelerating leadership growthThe difference between confidence and genuine self-trustHow emotional maturity becomes increasingly important as careers progressWhy authenticity creates more sustainable leadership than imitationWhat the future of live entertainment looks like in an increasingly digital worldWhy shared human experiences will always matterKey Takeaways:Curiosity creates better leaders - Amy believes the best leaders never stop learning. Staying curious helps leaders remain open, adaptable and connected to the people they serve.Great leadership is about translation - As organisations become more complex, leaders must simplify information and communicate in ways that people can understand, believe in and act upon.Resilience has limits - One of Amy's biggest lessons from leading through the pandemic was recognising that resilience isn't something people can operate on forever. Recovery, reflection and rest matter just as much.Trust is leadership currency - Whether leading teams through uncertainty or navigating change, trust remains the foundation of effective leadership.Confidence comes from self-trust - While external confidence can be learned early, deeper confidence comes from understanding yourself, accepting your strengths and weaknesses, and trusting your judgement.Emotional maturity is a leadership advantage - Leading under pressure requires self-awareness, composure and the ability to remain calm when others around you are not.You can't lead like someone else - Amy's strongest leadership lesson is that sustainable leadership comes from embracing your own style rather than trying to imitate others.Live experiences will always matter - Technology will continue to evolve, but the human need for connection, community and shared experiences remains unchanged.Resources & Mentions:Tourism Midwest VictoriaAnthemTourism AustraliaConnect with Our Guest:Amy Maiden on LinkedInFollow the Podcast & New Chapter Talent:Instagram: @NewChapterTalentLinkedIn: New Chapter Talent || CMO Chapters PodcastThis podcast is brought to you by New Chapter Talent recruitment. If you're hunting for a fulfilling new role or seeking the right talent for your company, contact Lucy Bolan today!Website: https://www.newchaptertalent.com.au/contact-usLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-chapter-talent/Email: [email protected]:(00:00) Introduction to the CMO Chapters Podcast(00:43) Meet Amy Maiden: marketer, strategist, former CEO and live events leader(02:05) Starting out in theatre, Disney and the magic of live entertainment(04:01) Disney School, brand discipline and early leadership lessons(07:11) The moment leadership started to feel learnable(09:37) Curiosity, human-centred leadership and communication that cuts through(12:43) Leading through the pandemic and rebuilding Anthem(17:23) Resilience, boundaries and learning not to override yourself(19:30) The hard leadership lesson of emotional maturity(23:41) Confidence, self-trust and learning to hold uncertainty(26:12) Why you can only lead as yourself(28:22) The future of live events, human connection and Amy’s legacy

In this episode of CMO Chapters, Lucy Bolan sits down with Swati Jain, International Commercial Leader, for a candid conversation about an unconventional career path that spans psychology, HR, marketing, and senior leadership roles across multiple countries.Swati shares how she accidentally landed in marketing, the lessons learned from working at global organisations like GSK, and what it really takes to lead across cultures, industries and business models.They also explore the reality of moving countries for work, the importance of resilience when things don’t go to plan, and how AI is reshaping the way marketing teams think about productivity and growth.This is a grounded, honest conversation about building a career through curiosity, adaptability, and a willingness to take opportunities as they come.What You’ll Learn in This Episode:How an “accidental marketer” builds a global leadership careerWhy psychology can be a powerful foundation for commercial leadershipWhat working at a global organisation like GSK really teaches you early in your careerThe realities of stakeholder management in complex, matrix environmentsHow to scale new business ideas without damaging the core businessWhat really changes when you move countries for workWhy cultural understanding matters more than preparationHow AI is already being used inside marketing teams to drive productivityWhy prompting skill matters more than the tool itselfHow to think about career progression beyond titles and job descriptionsWhat it looks like to build a career across industries, not just within oneWhy building networks outside your immediate industry matters more than most people realiseHow to define success beyond role, title or compensationKey Takeaways:People thinking is a career superpower: Swati’s psychology background shows up everywhere in her career - from consumer insight to leadership style. Understanding people remains the constant thread.Global organisations shape early career thinking: Working at GSK gave her exposure to scale, complexity, stakeholder alignment and cross-cultural leadership early on - setting a strong foundation for everything that followed.Growth needs balance: One of the key lessons from her career is that scaling new initiatives without protecting the core business can create unintended consequences.Moving countries is more than a job change: Relocation is a full life transition. Success depends less on preparation and more on adaptability, cultural awareness and personal responsibility.AI is a productivity lever, not a threat: Used well, AI removes repetitive work and frees up time for higher-value thinking. The real differentiator is knowing how to prompt it effectively.Titles slow people down more than they realise: Career growth accelerates when people focus on experience, not hierarchy.Networks matter more than most people realise early on: Building relationships beyond your immediate industry creates perspective, opportunity and long-term career strength.Success evolves: For Swati, success is no longer about titles. It’s about building capability in others and helping develop strong business leaders.Connect with Our Guest:Swati Jain on LinkedIn*****Follow the Podcast & New Chapter Talent:Instagram: @NewChapterTalentLinkedIn: New Chapter Talent || CMO Chapters PodcastThis podcast is brought to you by New Chapter Talent recruitment. If you're hunting for a fulfilling new role or seeking the right talent for your company, contact Lucy Bolan today!Website: https://www.newchaptertalent.com.au/contact-usLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-chapter-talent/Email: [email protected]

In this episode of CMO Chapters, Lucy Bolan sits down with Alicia Rieniets, a seasoned marketing and digital leader with over 20 years’ experience across brands including Ford, Australia Post, UniSuper and Bupa.This is a conversation that cuts through the noise. Alicia shares what reinvention actually looks like in practice, why it’s not a one-off moment but a career-long discipline, and how the best marketers connect change directly to commercial outcomes.From navigating transformation inside complex organisations to building trust in an AI-driven world, Alicia brings a refreshingly honest and practical take on what it means to lead today.If you’ve ever felt the pressure to “do more” when things aren’t working, this one will shift your thinking.What You’ll Learn in This Episode:Why reinvention is a repeatable skill, not a one-time event: Alicia explains how the most successful marketers continually evolve, both professionally and personally, and why holding onto past success can quietly hold you back.The difference between real reinvention and surface-level change: “Reinvention without revenue is just rebranding.” A standout moment that reframes how marketing leaders should think about impact and accountability.How to spot when the model is broken (and what to do next): More channels, more spend, more activity isn’t the answer. Alicia shares how stepping back often unlocks the real solution.A practical approach to leading change inside organisations: From creating clarity to building psychological safety and momentum, Alicia breaks down how to actually bring teams with you.Why brand matters more than ever in an AI world: As search becomes “answer-led”, Alicia explains why trust, consistency and brand reputation are now critical inputs into how businesses are discovered.Balancing performance and brand without losing either: A clear take on why marketing isn’t either/or, and how the strongest teams build a system where both work together.Career advice for marketers at every stage: From grads to future CMOs, Alicia shares simple, practical ways to build visibility, think bigger, and accelerate your growth.Key Takeaways:Reinvention starts with you. If you can’t evolve, neither can the business.If something isn’t working, doing more of it won’t fix it.Progress beats perfection. Waiting too long kills momentum.The best marketers think commercially first, not just creatively.AI isn’t just a tech shift, it’s a trust shift.Strong brands will win in a world of automation and sameness.Small, consistent actions drive real change over time.Connect with Our Guest:Alicia Rieniets on LinkedIn*****Follow the Podcast & New Chapter Talent:Instagram: @NewChapterTalentLinkedIn: New Chapter Talent || CMO Chapters PodcastThis podcast is brought to you by New Chapter Talent recruitment. If you're hunting for a fulfilling new role or seeking the right talent for your company, contact Lucy Bolan today!Website: https://www.newchaptertalent.com.au/contact-usLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-chapter-talent/Email: [email protected]:(00:00) Introduction to CMO Chapters(00:43) Meet Alicia Rieniets(01:27) Reinvention as the thread through Alicia’s career(03:39) Early lessons from NAB and learning corporate life(06:24) Moving across industries and selling transferable skills(10:47) Why reinvention without revenue is just rebranding(13:40) Turning around Bupa’s dental business(15:58) Leading change starts with reinventing yourself(21:08) AI, trust and the next challenge for marketing leaders(24:50) Why brand still matters in a performance-led world(26:57) Where to start when you need to reinvent yourself(31:41) Career advice for marketers stepping into leadership