Fatal Strategies

The Brazilian grindcore duo Test formed in 2010, and they’ve since released four full-length albums and an array of singles, EPs, splits, and collaborations. They have toured the world and opened for bands ranging from Napalm Death to Mr. Bungle. However, if you go searching for interviews with them in English, you are likely to come up empty-handed. Or at least I did.Thanks to the efforts of Luis Misiara (a previous guest on this podcast), we were able to arrange this somewhat unorthodox interview, in which I asked questions in English, they responded in Portuguese, and Luis translated for me. But that’s not all. Luis also helped clean up the Portuguese sections of the transcript, which were then translated into English and added to the video, with the alignment painstakingly adjusted and review by yours truly.In other words, this is a bona fide translation, labored over by actual humans. But this is a special occasion and a special band, so I think it was worth it, and I' hope you’ll agree. A huge thank you to Luis for making this possible. Links* Test on Bandcamp* João and Barata on Instagram* Tomás Moreira’s incredible Disco Normal documentary on YouTubeMusic CreditsTest, "Esquema Tático de Destruição em Massa em Nome de Jesus”Test, “Fama/Fome”Video creditsAll live footage in the video version was taken from either the Disco Normal documentary or other videos by Tomás Moreira. Please check him out on YouTube and/or Instagram.TranscriptMaybe just to start with here, I know you all have been together about 15 years, but was it the idea always to be a duo? Had you played together with each other before Test?João: When I came up with the idea to form Test, it was because I used to have another band here called Are You God?, which kind of fell apart in a weird way. I was really eager to get things done, but the other guys were kind of holding me back at the time.The band broke up, and I lost the motivation to keep going, too. After almost three years of that, I felt like starting a project—mostly just to record some songs I’d been playing by myself at home. I came up with the idea of doing it with just two people because it would be easier; I was still traumatized by having too many people kind of getting in the way of the process. I was in the mindset of not wanting to make something that took so long to release, that was so overcomplicated, or that was as perfectionist as Are You God?—it was supposed to be something more laid-back. So that’s how it went; it still took me a while to reach out to Barata, who at the time was playing in about five bands. When Test started, Barata was playing—and still plays today—with D.E.R., which is a well-regarded grindcore band here in São Paulo. D.E.R. and Are You God? would play together every now and then, so I already knew him, we were already friends, and I already knew he was good.And I’d say, “Damn, Barata—I wanted someone like that,” but I didn’t want to be a hassle for him; I figured he wouldn’t even accept because of that. But then it happened, and, well, the idea wasn’t even to play a show or anything—it was to record a demo, a little EP—and then things just started happening.Okay. And with I guess maybe some of the questions, both can answer, but is there anything else to add from Barata?Barata: Hello! No, I think he said everything correctly. He didn’t lie.Well. I’ve seen little bits of footage of shows—kind of guerrilla shows, or shows in places where bands don’t usually play the street—and I’ve heard a little bit a bit about that. But at what point did that come into the picture—doing shows outside of regular venues?Barata: Our thinking was that this would be one less thing to do—going to the venue entrance—so we wouldn’t have to go out of our way to find a place to play, talk to people, and all that. That’s our idea of playing on the street, right? Like, at the venue entrance—it’s not like what’s usually done, which is setting everything up in a place from scratch, promoting it, and putting on the show.It’s about taking advantage of the audience that’s already there. So it was an idea João had from the very beginning. And the very first one we did was at an event here in São Paulo—one of the biggest cultural events in the country—called Virada Cultural. There are several stages there. Back then, it was only in the city center, but later it spread out.But then we set it up at a friend’s pet shop since we didn’t have a generator back then. We borrowed a power outlet from him and put on the show there. The next day we did our first one, which was right outside a concert venue; D.R.I. was going to play here. And the one from the day before was sort of a test run so we could see how it would go, if everything would go smoothly the next day and all that. And we took advantage of the crowd at Virada Cultural, which is a massive event—it’s total chaos in the streets. So the police didn’t even realize that what we were doing there wasn’t part of the Virada.João: So, just to follow up on that Virada thing—since it’s an annual event… playing on the street worked out well in subsequent editions. We started organizing it so that other bands we’re friends with could play along too, and then we ended up creating our own stage—which started out as an “unauthorized” setup—and, over time, the festival’s official curators included our stage as part of the festival.Before watching the Disco Normal documentary, I thought that, “Oh, here’s this band that does shows in different places and probably is used to hearing the way their music sounds in different environments and then wanted to simulate that.” I guess I assumed that the album was recorded in a studio but there were maybe different rooms within the studio or different filters … to emulate the idea of playing in different environments. I didn’t realize that it was actually recorded in all those different places.But then the second album also has some of that quality, where the fidelity or the ambience changes from one track to the next—which is a pretty rare thing on a grindcore album. But was Disco Normal the first time that you all recorded like an actual album in different locations, or had you experimented with that before?João: Because of those street shows, we started to realize that a lot of places also had great acoustics—like, there was one time we played down in Vale do Anhangabaú, and I felt like the drums were sounding really good under the bridge. That’s when the idea began to take shape—to one day make a recording like that, based on those street shows, to take advantage of the acoustics of those places.So it was the other way around—the idea to record the album came after the shows. And with the second album, really, like… Because as time goes by—and nowadays more than ever—I think albums all sound pretty much the same. You listen to a 40-minute album, you hear the sound, and it’s just flat. That mix, that flat mastering.Most metal albums sound flat. So that’s where the idea came from to try to mix each track differently on that second album, Espécies. We asked a few different people to mix them, precisely so that each track would sound unique, just like he said.What led to the idea of actually documenting the making of Disco Normal? I guess the title is very ironic. But … you knew going in that it was going to be an adventure and a totally different way of making an album, and you wanted to document it? Is it that simple?João: Actually, this album was recorded in the middle of the pandemic. And I was living in this city in the interior of São Paulo called Bauru.That’s when the idea came up to record the album there, to use those spaces that appear in the documentary. The idea to make the documentary didn’t come right away. The idea for the documentary came about by chance. Since we were working during the pandemic, a lot of cultural incentive programs popped up. Brands were offering support, the city government was issuing calls for proposals to record at home, and a lot of people were doing livestreams, etc.We’d submitted a proposal to Vans—the Vans shoe brand—which was supporting some bands at the time. We saw that they were providing support to record a music video or do a livestream. And I’d been accepted into a grant program—one where, after being approved, you had to raise the funds from companies.And during that conversation with Vans, someone on the inside said, “If you have another project, send it our way.” So, I don’t know, one day while trying to come up with a project, I said, “Hey, we’re going to record the album here, so let’s make a documentary about it.” So the idea came about entirely because there was an opportunity to secure sponsorship, and I had to come up with an idea during that pandemic when we were facing financial difficulties.That’s how the idea to make the documentary came about.Barata: There were also some of the things we do—people always said we should document them, both the tours and all the other different things we do, because people are really curious to know what it’s like, how we do it, and so on.And on this album, João’s idea was to record not only in different places, but sometimes using a different microphone and everything. And that was another thing that encouraged us to document and record this documentary.Okay, and the filmmaker, Tomás Moreira—that’s a friend?Barata: Since the band started, he’s recorded a lot of our stuff and edited it, too. He works in video editing, and he kind of got his start—one of the things that motivated him to get into this field was editing our videos and everything else, so he’s been a longtime partner of ours, and the vast majority of the videos we have were edited—and partially or entirely filmed—by him.Okay. And then, there are different other helpers in the movie—sorry, in the documentary—but I couldn’t always tell.… With the actual recording and engineering, is that something that is primarily done by the band, or is there a desi

The podcast returns with a special international roundtable edition focusing on Mr. Bungle and their relationship with the metal genre. Appropriately enough, my guests are both distinguished scholars in the burgeoning field of “Bungle Studies”: * Dr. Sam Thomas, a professor of English at Durham University in the UK and author of a forthcoming paper (”Unsentimental Education: Mr. Bungle, Metal Music, and the Recording of The Raging Wrath of the Easter Bunny”) in The Journal of Popular Culture; and* Luis Misiara, an independent researcher (and veteran of the infamous Web of Mimicry forums) from São Paulo, Brazil, who has put together a series of in-depth interviews with guitarist Trey Spruance.The discussion here is based partly on the above-mentioned sources (see below for links) as well as a two-part essay on Mr. Bungle and metal that yours truly wrote for Veil of Sound in 2024 (ditto). But none of this is required reading in order to listen to the show, so fear not. LINKS* Luis Misiara, “A chat with Trey Spruance — 05/09/2017”* Luis Misiara, “What’s he building in there? — New intel on Trey Spruance’s current affairs” (2022)* Dr. Sam Thomas: Durham University | Instagram* My two-fer on Mr. Bungle for Veil of Sound: Part 1 | Part 2* Who Cares Anyway: Post-Punk San Francisco and the End of the Analog Age (which includes a couple of chapters on Mr. Bungle)* The Who Cares Anyway Podcast (whose episodes include an interview with Spruance as well as a recent interview with percussionist William Winant)MUSIC CREDITS* Mr. Bungle, “Grizzly Adams” (1986/2020)* Miguel Angel Olivares Avendaño, “Carousel” (8-bit version)* Mr. Bungle, “Raping Your Mind” (1986/2020)* Sequoia Sounds, “Quote Unquote” (piano cover)* Mr. Bungle, “Sudden Death” (2020/1986) This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit fatalstrategies.substack.com

French-born, Dublin-based multi-instrumentalist Camille Giraudeau joins the podcast once again, this time to update us on some of what he’s been up to since the recording of our first interview (which took me absurdly long to publish). We hear about the making of Doedsmaghird’s Omniverse Consciousness and Stagnant Waters’ Rifts, both of which came out in 2024, along with a (verbal) sneak preview of Eki Aum, a new project involving Camille and ex-DHG frontman Aldrahn. We also veer off into more philosophical/conceptual matters, including some discussion of “thinking man’s metal,” the “Black Wizards trope,” and the role of chaos versus order and tradition in metal. Finally, we hear some deep Norwegian metal intel that Camille gathered on his recent trip to Scandinavia, including some interesting bits and pieces involving Thorns, Ved Buens Ende, Mr. Bungle, and (of course) Dødheimsgard.Music credits:* Dreams of the Drowned, “They Poisoned the Waters”* Stagnant Waters, “Black Fields (C)”* Stagnant Waters, “Split and Split (A)”* Doedsmaghird, “Endeavour”* Stagnant Waters, “Rifts (A)”* Dreams of the Drowned, “Dream III” This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit fatalstrategies.substack.com

My guest on Episode 4 is Camille Giraudeau, a French-born, Dublin-based multi-instrumentalist who has been a key player in the international avant-garde metal landscape for the past two decades. Camille’s projects as bandleader (or co-leader) include Dreams of the Drowned, Stagnant Waters (alongside previous FS guest Svein Egil Hatlevik), and Smohalla, though he has also lent his talents to a range of other bands including the UK-based Void (on their 2023 album Jadjow), the current touring lineup of Dødheimsgard, and DHG spinoff Doedsmaghird (see last year’s excellent Omniverse Consciousness). On top of all that, he’s also a tireless enthusiast of not just extreme and avant-garde metal, but also post-punk, goth, and hardcore, all of which have influenced his own music in one way or another.In this interview, we delve into the concept of “grey metal,” to borrow a term that appears in one of Dreams of the Drowned’s promotional blurbs. We also talk about his initiation into underground metal—from Disco Volante to Jester Records, Ved Buens Ende to Dodheimsgard—and then from there into metal-adjacent acts such as Killing Joke and Blind Idiot God. Toward the end, we hear a little bit about the MySpace era and the (virtual) community of bands/projects that grew out of it, along with some discussion of the pros and cons of working as a one-man band à la Dreams of the Drowned.Show motes, links, and music credits: This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit fatalstrategies.substack.com

My guest on this episode is Andy Hawkins, guitarist and primary composer for the legendary instrumental trio Blind Idiot God.We talk about how he developed his distinctive guitar sound and how that process was shaped by the particular context in which he likes to operate (i.e., a live band performing together in a room, sans overdubbing).We also talk about his relation to metal and hear about what happened when BIG seemingly went AWOL in the 1990s and part of the 2000s. Toward the end, we get some updates on a few new recordings that are in the works—not only a new, still-untitled BIG album (their first since 2015’s Before Ever After) but also some things to look forward to from his ambient/improv project Azonic and a quintet, Downriver, that features Hawkins alongside a pedal-steel guitarist (!). Links, show notes, and music credits: This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit fatalstrategies.substack.com