The Future of Finance Podcast

The energy transition is already reshaping the economics of oil and gas, yet many of the models institutional investors rely on still assume the transition away.   Georges Dyer is joined by Mark Campanale, Founder & CEO of Carbon Tracker, the financial think tank best known for its work on the carbon bubble and stranded assets. Mark explains how Carbon Tracker reads the signals in oil and gas company behavior, and what those signals mean for endowments, foundations, and pension funds with long investment horizons.   Key themes: The carbon budget, unburnable carbon, and what stranded assets mean for valuations Carbon Tracker's "quiet retreat" analysis of reserve life, buybacks, and spending on new production at oil and gas majors Why long-dated bonds issued against shrinking reserves deserve closer scrutiny Why fossil fuels and renewables are different businesses, and what steadier, infrastructure-like renewable returns mean for portfolios How the economic assumptions behind investment consultants' climate scenarios can understate risk for long-horizon investors   A great look into how the energy transition is being priced, and mispriced, across institutional portfolios.   Join us at the IEN 2026 Annual Forum, November 18-20 in Toronto, ON. Register: https://www.zeffy.com/en-US/ticketing/2026-annual-forum   Become an IEN Member: https://www.intentionalendowments.org/join_us   –   Resources:   Capital in Transition, Carbon Tracker's podcast: https://carbontracker.org/news-and-events/capital-in-transition/   Loading the DICE Against Pensions (Carbon Tracker): https://carbontracker.org/reports/loading-the-dice-against-pensions/   –   General Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction: Mark Campanale, Founder & CEO of Carbon Tracker 03:44 Why Carbon Tracker Started: Counting the Carbon in Listed Reserves 08:30 Stranded Assets Beyond Reserves: The Infrastructure Question 10:29 Two Views of Oil Demand and What Investors May Be Mispricing 13:34 The Quiet Retreat: Reading Oil and Gas Company Signals 18:43 Can Oil Majors Become Renewable Energy Companies? 22:33 Politics, Business Models, and Who Controls Energy 29:20 Why Renewables Look More Like Infrastructure Than Oil 34:51 Economists vs. Climate Scientists: The Assumptions Behind Pension Advice 40:17 The Limits of Engagement With Fossil Fuel Producers 41:58 Why Mark Remains Optimistic 44:14 Rapid Fire: One Change Every Institutional Investor Should Make

What happens when a pension investor stops treating sustainability as an add-on and makes it a third dimension alongside risk and return? Host Georges Dyer is joined by Geraldine Leegwater, CEO of PGGM Investment Management, and Colin Tissen, Sustainability Lead within PGGM’s Mandate Management team, along with handbook co-editor Bill Burckart. They discuss the PGGM chapter in The Handbook of System-Level Investing, “From 2D to 3D Investing.” PGGM manages roughly €250 billion for PFZW, the Dutch pension fund for the healthcare and welfare sector. Its experience offers a practical reference point for any long-horizon investor working out how to address systemic risk across a whole portfolio. Key themes: Rebuilding the investment process: folding responsible investment into core teams and adopting a total portfolio approach Stewardship at several levels, from company engagement to policy dialogue and collaborative initiatives Moving public equities from index tracking to "conscious investing" Culture and incentives, including compensation tied to one organization-wide goal A candid look at what it takes to change how a large institution invests, and what is still hard.   IEN's 2026 Annual Forum is November 18–20 in Toronto, ON. Register here: https://www.intentionalendowments.org/ien_2026_annual_forum Become a Member: https://www.intentionalendowments.org/join_us   – Resources:   The Handbook of System-Level Investing: https://www.amazon.com/Handbook-System-level-Investing-Trillions-Rethinking/dp/1939282594 PGGM, "From index tracker to conscious investor: the equity portfolio in 3D": https://www.pggm.nl/en/blogs/from-index-tracker-to-conscious-investor-the-equity-portfolio-in-3d Top1000funds, "PGGM advances 3D investing strategy balancing impact, risk and return": https://www.top1000funds.com/2025/04/pggm-advances-3d-investing-strategy-balancing-impact-risk-and-return/ IPE, on PGGM dissolving its responsible investment team: https://www.ipe.com/news/pggm-ditches-responsible-investment-team-with-new-impact-strategy/10127805.article   --   General Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction 02:31 What 2D to 3D investing means 05:25 Rebuilding the investment process 11:12 Three levers on systemic risk 12:32 Impact, alignment, improvers, and neutrals 17:04 From company engagement to systemic engagement 24:17 Public equities: 3,500 holdings to 800 27:35 Culture, incentives, and compensation 35:17 Real-world impact and the free-rider problem 41:30 Rapid-fire questions

The SEC's proposal to rescind Rule 14a-8 could change how investors and companies talk to each other. Georges Dyer speaks with Andrew Collier, Senior Director of Freedom to Invest at Ceres, about what the change would mean in practice. Andrew leads Ceres' effort to educate lawmakers on how restrictions on considering financially material risk affect investors, beneficiaries, and companies. The conversation is useful for anyone responsible for stewardship, proxy voting, or fiduciary oversight. Key themes: What Rule 14a-8 does, and why removing it could leave a 50-state patchwork with little to replace it Shareholder proposals as a free market tool for transparency and investor-company dialogue How state legislation has become more targeted, including bills aimed at proxy advisors How asset owners, asset managers, and pension trustees are engaging with policymakers The SEC is accepting public comments on the proposal through November 20, 2026: https://www.sec.gov/rules-regulations/2026/09/s7-2026-32 A look at shareholder rights, fiduciary duty, and the case for letting investors and companies manage risk on their own terms. Join us at the IEN 2026 Annual Forum, November 18 to 20, in Toronto. Register here: https://www.zeffy.com/en-US/ticketing/2026-annual-forum Become a member of the Intentional Endowments Network: https://www.intentionalendowments.org/join_us #FutureofFinance #ShareholderRights #FiduciaryDuty – Resources: Freedom to Invest (Ceres): https://www.freedomtoinvest.org SEC proposed rescission of Rule 14a-8 (File No. S7-2026-32): https://www.sec.gov/rules-regulations/2026/09/s7-2026-32 Freedom to Invest, Shareholder Rights: https://www.freedomtoinvest.org/shareholder-rights BloombergNEF, Energy Transition Investment Trends: https://about.bnef.com/insights/finance/energy-transition-investment-trends/ 1929 by Andrew Ross Sorkin: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/665634/1929-by-andrew-ross-sorkin/   –   General Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction 02:29 What Rule 14a-8 is and why rescission matters 05:49 What is driving opposition to shareholder proposals 09:02 The origins of Freedom to Invest 10:14 Fiduciary duty and financially material risk 12:34 A bipartisan, free market coalition 15:05 Targeted state bills and proxy advisors 19:06 How investors are engaging with policymakers 23:28 Asset owners, managers, and the arguments that work 26:53 Rapid-fire questions and the future of finance  

This episode is part of the ongoing System-Level Investing series, produced alongside The Handbook of System-Level Investing.   A trillion-dollar index manager and a $15 billion family office can both practice system-level stewardship, but the leverage points, and the duties behind them, are not the same.   Host Georges Dyer is joined by John Hoeppner, Head of Strategic Relationships & Active Ownership at Builders Vision, who previously led U.S. stewardship and sustainable investment at Legal & General Investment Management America (LGIM America). Hoeppner is the author of Chapter 5, "Different Organizations, Different Leverage Points," in The Handbook of System-Level Investing, edited by Jon Lukomnik and William Burckart. The chapter asks a foundational question: does system-level stewardship look different depending on whether you represent thousands of index fund clients or a single family's mission, and if so, what does each seat actually make possible?   Key themes: Why willingness to "take a point of view" shaped Legal & General's influence as a universal owner The fiduciary duty question behind "better beta," and why the payoff is nearly impossible to show a client How a narrower, mission-directed mandate changes what counts as impact at Builders Vision Industrial decarbonization and the case for cement as a target sector Builders Vision's role convening investors around ocean plastics and green cement Why asset owners, not managers, tend to set the pace on system-level risk   A candid look at what changes, and what doesn't, when stewardship moves from a trillion-dollar index shop to a single family's mission.   Catch the rest of the System-Level Investing series on the channel.   Join us at the IEN 2026 Annual Forum, November 18-20 in Toronto, ON. Register: https://www.zeffy.com/en-US/ticketing/2026-annual-forum   Become a Member: https://www.intentionalendowments.org/join_us   –   Resources:   The Handbook of System-Level Investing (ed. Jon Lukomnik and William Burckart): https://www.amazon.com/Handbook-System-level-Investing-Trillions-Rethinking/dp/1939282594   Builders Vision: https://www.buildersvision.com/ –   General Timestamps: 0:00 Cold open 0:22 Welcome & episode intro 1:22 Hoeppner's career arc: Cambridge Associates to Builders Vision 3:25 Discovering system-level investing: The Shareholder Commons and universal ownership 4:33 Legal & General as a universal owner: taking a point of view 9:13 The jump to Builders Vision: mission, structure, and the three systems 11:34 Manager versus asset owner: fiduciary duty and "better beta" 15:01 Prioritizing risk and pushing managers for more 20:40 Where Builders Vision focuses: energy, oceans, and cement 24:35 Public and private capital, and the Walton name 29:15 Convening investors and engaging on policy 34:53 Rapid fire and closing thoughts

This episode is part of our ongoing System-Level Investing series, featuring the chapter authors of The Handbook of System-Level Investing. Host Georges Dyer is joined by Max Messervy, founder of Oakledge Advisors and former Head of Sustainable Investment, Americas at Mercer. They dig into Chapter 12, "How to Work with Your Consultant on System-Level Issues," authored by Messervy. This chapter is built around one foundational question for institutional investors: is your consultant relationship actually structured to serve your interests, or theirs? Key themes: How consultant mandates are structured: general vs. specialist, retainer vs. discrete project Where conflicts of interest can arise between a consultant's business model and a client's fiduciary interests The gap between day-to-day field consulting teams and in-house sustainability/impact specialists Concrete steps for defining what you want from a consultant, evaluating their response, and deciding whether to expand the relationship or go out to RFP This episode offers a candid look at one of the most consequential, and least examined, relationships in institutional investing. Don’t forget to subscribe to catch the rest of the System-Level Investing series on the channel. IEN's 2026 Annual Forum is November 18–20 in Toronto, ON. Register here: https://www.intentionalendowments.org/ien_2026_annual_forum Become a Member: https://www.intentionalendowments.org/join_us – Resources: The Handbook of System-Level Investing: https://us.amazon.com/Handbook-System-level-Investing-Trillions-Rethinking/dp/1939282594 Oakledge Advisors — https://www.oakledgeadvisors.com/ Independent High-Level Expert Group on Climate Finance — https://www.lse.ac.uk/granthaminstitute/ihleg/ General Timestamps: 00:00 – Intro  01:04 – Max's path through Ceres, Mercer, and founding Oakledge Advisors  05:50 – Why asset owners use consultants, and the different types of mandates  09:11 – How consultants are paid: retainer vs. discrete project 12:20 – Where conflicts of interest can arise between a consultant's business model and a client's interests  16:37 – Discretionary vs. non-discretionary consulting, and the rise of OCIO  19:21 – When a consultant becomes a "barrier": field consultants vs. in-house specialists  25:18 – Is consultant expertise on system-level investing catching up? 30:40 – Sticking with your existing consultant vs. issuing an RFP 34:39 – Specific ways to engage your consultant on system-level investing 36:44 – Three ways to evaluate a consultant's readiness