The Art of Subduction

What really goes into choosing a graduate program in the geosciences? In this episode, Yale PhD candidate Maoli Vizcaíno offers an honest look at the decisions that shape an academic career: from navigating funding and institutional support to choosing between a master’s and a PhD. —————— Did you like this podcast? Leave us a rating and review! Follow us on Spotify, Apple Music, or wherever else you get podcasts.  Got a lava questions or want to be featured next? Email me at [email protected] —————— Transcript Choosing Between UT Austin and Yale [00:36:33] Diya Gaur: So what made you choose between like, okay, well, what were the things that you were considering when you had to pick between UT, Austin, and Yale? Like, what were the maybe different things in terms of, you know, academics or resources? What exactly drew you to Yale over UT?  [00:36:48] Maoli Vizcaíno: Yeah, so, um I think it was, it was a couple things. Uh, both were by my family. So it was by my dad and it was by my sister. So I was like, great. UT, uh, the professor, he, um, had a project that I could go in. For the first couple of years. And that was really attractive to me because I had never come up with my own research project before yet. So I was like, that'll be great to like, have something that I know I'm doing while I'm, you know, getting everything settled and like starting this program, you know, versus at Yale, I knew I'd have to come in and figure it out. [00:37:24] : And that was  [00:37:25] Maoli Vizcaíno: intimidating to me. Um, but I, you know, I felt both, both professors who I was looking at were people who like, I had heard a lot about from, you know, other people and like, you know, I think it's always important to like. Oh, and as a side note too, like, unsolicited advice you didn't ask me, but I will say if, you know, you are interested in going in, I would definitely, if you haven't already, like, think about where you would be able to do research. I think that if someone wants to do geology, like, undergrad research is, like, extremely important. I think more And then in other fields where it's kind of a given that you're not like gonna always be like, have done biology research or like, if you're pre pre med or whatever, because it's like, why, you know, lots of dangerous things going on. I don't, I don't know. I don't know anything about pre med, but for geology, I think, you know, you know, thinking about where, where schools, you will be able to like, talk to professors, gain a real relationship with a couple of them, like work in their labs for real, for real. Like, I think that's a huge, huge thing. Like, something you should think about. For sure. But yeah, so research wise, that was it. Um, I ended up choosing Yale, um, because, um, one, is I knew that I was going to be coming in with another student. So I knew that my, um, the professor, my professor here at Yale, she was also recruiting another student, so there were two of us. And so, um. I talked to her and she was like, I'm probably gonna go. She was actually also choosing between UT and Yale. Oh wow, interesting. She was looking at biology at UT and then obviously, but yeah. So then she was like, I think I'm going to go Yale. And I was like, okay, if I go to Yale, I'll be going with someone. And I love having a buddy, like I love commiserating. And I was like, pretty sure I would be the only student coming into the other lab. And then, um, UT. UT really did me dirty. So I did liberal arts undergrad, but I also did a master's. I remember they were like, um, you don't have the correct prereqs from undergrad for the program. So you'd have to take an extra class to fulfill those prereqs. And the professor I was applying with, he was like, she has a master's degree, like, who cares if she missed one science class in undergrad, like, you don't have the pre reqs. So that was another thing that was kind of like, I was like, okay, so I'm going to have to, if I go to UT, I'm going to have to take an extra class, undergrad, like, come on, that was so long ago. So that was a bummer. And then also in the end, like Yale, like money, honestly, they offered me so much money, like so much. Right. And I think that's a huge thing. That's, I think there are so many amazing, like, public schools, state schools, et cetera, but private schools have levels of resources, and I feel like, in my experience, with less red tape, um, obviously everything's a bureaucratic mess, but it's like so much Easier, I, again, in my experience, to like just have funding for stuff like I did for undergrad and then public school for my master's. And then at Stanford, going and then seeing again, like, cause I had forgotten after two years what private school was like, seeing it happen again. I was like, right, like, this is huge. I'm going to be born for six years. Like, I want money. So yeah, so that was it. It was like having a buddy, being close to my sister. And the money.  [00:40:40] Diya Gaur: So does Yale fund the research that you do or is it like other organizations that are kind of like, you know, funding your projects and, you know, so on?  [00:40:49] Maoli Vizcaíno: Um, so Yale does do a stipend for all of the, um, GSAS, Graduate School of Arts and Sciences. So if you're in the professional schools, like the law school, the business school, nursing school, you're paying. PhD vs Master's Programs: Funding and Stipends [00:41:00] Maoli Vizcaíno: Um, but for the PhD programs and the mass and the master's programs that are not, That are not professional schools. Actually, don't quote me on the master's schools. I don't know about that. The master's programs. The PhD programs, you get paid. Um, so we get a stipend. It's like a regular salary. Like, I get a check times a year. Actually, a year. Oh my god. Two times a month. Um. Yeah, and we just unionized, like, last year, I think, so the stipends have all increased, so we're making, like, 49, 000 a year.  [00:41:30] Diya Gaur: Oh, okay, so that's pretty good, yeah. Yes, it is,  [00:41:34] Maoli Vizcaíno: especially with, like, what it used to be, and even still, like, we were always making the higher end as STEM students, like, the humanities students were making, like, almost, like, 10k lower than us before the union, so that was, like, crazy. But yeah, so they pay us, and then you can get cut, like, extra money, kind of, from like different fellowships and things. There is a cap, um, I think you can make like four thousand more dollars if you get like an external fellowship, like that's the amount extra, and then everything else like just goes to the school and like you get your accolades and everything, but there is kind of a level of like a, of a cap on how much like you can make. I see. And we're not allowed to work, um, have other jobs, like we, um, I think it's. You can't have another job, but it can't be more than 10 hours a week. I see. Yeah, so it's like I teach high schoolers after school. Oh, that's sweet. Yeah, it's like an after school program.  Balancing Outreach and Graduate Studies [00:42:30] Maoli Vizcaíno: And that's another thing too, you mentioned like outreach before, and I will say that is something that I feel like is a lot easier as a grad student than an undergrad. You really are so busy in undergrad, like with all the homework and all the clubs and like you're trying to get, you're trying to get everything together, you know what I mean? And in grad school, it's like, obviously you are still like really busy, um, and lots going on, but it's all like the same thing, you know, it's like. And like, once you get a handle on that, then it's like, you start feeling like, I'm saying you, me. You know, I mean, I came in knowing that that's something I wanted to do. And then the first two years, I was like, Oh my God,  [00:43:05] : like, you know,  [00:43:06] Maoli Vizcaíno: my third year, I started going back to like, you know, the things I wanted to do, like, we have the museum here and I knew I wanted to work with them and do outreach with kids and stuff. And I've really not really kind of settled into that now in my fourth year. So it took a bit, but I, you know, I was like, this is something I knew I wanted to do. And I was like, I don't want to get lost in like, you know, like the research of it all. And, you know, and like, that's cool, but you know, it's, it's not, it's kind of, it can get kind of soulless, you know. [00:43:33] Diya Gaur: No, yeah, like, for sure. Go ahead. Sorry, go ahead. No, actually,  [00:43:35] Maoli Vizcaíno: I don't, I didn't have anything else to say on that. No,  Differences Between Master's and PhD Programs [00:43:38] Diya Gaur: yeah, I was just gonna ask, so what are, like, the key differences in the master's versus PhD programs in your experience, like, specifically for geology, you know? I mean, I know you mentioned funding is one thing, but is there anything different, like, curriculum wise or just, like, research wise, like, any limitations? [00:43:56] Maoli Vizcaíno: Yeah, I'd say, and in very general strokes, I'd say the So the master's will be, you know, two years. And I'd say often you'll get, like, I was paid for my master's coming in. I came in on a grant to do a specific thing that my advisor had come up with, do that for two years. And at the same time, I'm taking classes. And then like your last year, you're like not really taking classes and you're like doing more writing and you write your, your thesis, um, and like completing this research project. So I'd say the master's, it's a lot more like, you know what you're doing. You come in, like, They tell it like, you know what classes you need to take, you probably have a res like a project defined for you, so you can just start working on it. Versus the PhD in my field in the U. S., I would say five to six years is pretty, is pretty standard. Um, five more than six, but in a lot of programs six years, especially since the pa

In this episode, we crack open the microscopic world of marine plankton and deep-time data with Yale PhD candidate Maoli Vizcaíno. From dissolving 650-million-year-old Mongolian rocks to measuring microfossils the size of a grain of sand, Maoli takes us through her unexpected journey into geobiology and the surprising intersections between marine ecology, paleoclimate, and... sidewalk hammering? We dive into what foraminifera can tell us about ancient oceans, how a tedious lab job turned into a passion for research, and why feedback loops and frozen Earths might just blow your mind. Whether you're team fieldwork, team lab coat, or just curious how life and rock shape each other, this episode will most definitely rock your worldview —————— Did you like this podcast? Leave us a rating and review! Follow us on Spotify, Apple Music, or wherever else you get podcasts.  Got a lava questions or want to be featured next? Email me at [email protected] —————— Transcript Introduction and Guest Introduction [00:00:00] Diya Gaur: Hello, everyone. Welcome back to the Art of Subduction. My name is Diya Gore, and today I'm here with  [00:00:19] Maoli Vizcaíno: Um, Maoli Vizcaíno.  [00:00:22] Diya Gaur: So, Maoli is a PhD candidate at Yale University, and she's currently Do you want to give an explanation of what exactly you do?  [00:00:31] Maoli Vizcaíno: Yes. Um, I am a fourth year PhD candidate here, um, at Yale. I study foraminifera, which are marine plankton, and a bit of paleocenography. Slash, I guess, kind of more modern these days, also modern like, like marine ecology.  [00:00:51] Diya Gaur: Yeah. That's amazing.  Maoli's Journey into Marine Ecology [00:00:53] Diya Gaur: So my first question is like, how did you get into this? This is like such a niche and like fascinating field. So is there a certain experience or like? You know, just any event that kind of led you into what you do now. [00:01:05] Maoli Vizcaíno: Yes, um, yeah, so I had, um, this was not a life dream of mine. I did not grow up dreaming of the ocean, aside from, I feel like, really regular, like, yeah, let's go to the beach, because it's vacation vibes. Um, I, um, you know, I went to college, um, I got into college. I went to college. That was like, kind of the goal was ultimately college. And then I got there and I was like, oh, I need to, uh, figure out what I'm doing here. Exactly. So I took a bunch of intro classes as one does, and my freshman year, one of my professors would advertise. job opportunities at the end of her class.  First Research Experience [00:01:45] Maoli Vizcaíno: And, um, I applied, I hated my, oh, uh, this was my sophomore year actually, my sophomore fall. So I hated my current job. Um, so I applied to work in her lab and I was just doing sample prep. So it was like, she had these rocks and I worked in the lab to, to solve them and pick out microfossils. Yeah. So I literally was just doing that as a job for like almost a year. And then I got a fellowship. a research fellowship and kept doing it like more seriously. And so I think, um, not to, you know, start with the life lessons, you know, two minutes into the recording, but like, you really don't, there are so many people who are so amazing and know what they want to do their whole life and are super dedicated to it. And that's awesome. Um, and also though, you don't have to. I didn't. And even my job, my first like research job, I got it because I was just working in the lab. She just needed someone to do the really tedious stuff. And I was like, I'm getting paid 15 an hour. I'm from Texas, which I mentioned to you before. So moving from Texas to Massachusetts, I was like, man, um, wow, 15 an hour, like I'll dissolve as many rocks as you want me to. So. Yeah, anyway, I didn't know what I wanted to do and that job opportunity was literally just looking for a job and I ended up becoming more interested and working on that. And yeah, and so  [00:03:07] Maoli Vizcaíno: that first project really kind of started me on microfossils specifically. And it was in my master's where I started studying the forams themselves and I've been doing that ever since. [00:03:20] Diya Gaur: That's really interesting.  Detailed Lab Work [00:03:21] Diya Gaur: What was it that you initially did in the lab? Like, what was the more tedious stuff that you were just mentioning? Yeah. Sounds kind of fascinating, but Yeah,  [00:03:29] Maoli Vizcaíno: no, um, it was, it was cool. It was, it was tedious, but it was cool. There was, like, enough steps to where it didn't feel like I was, like, you know, copy paste, copy paste, or whatever. It was like, I had these rocks that she gave me, um, from the field. Um, her colleagues went to Mongolia to get these rocks. Yeah. Oh, interesting. Yes. And so I would take them, I would wrap them in foil and squish them with a hammer. I would just like go out on the sidewalk and just smash them. And then I would put the pieces into like just a little plastic container and, um, dissolve them in acid for like however long it takes. It took sometimes, it was like a couple days, sometimes it was a bit longer, or I'd like have to increase the concentration. And so once they were dissolved, then I would like wash the sediment. So, um, it's just like the really classic, like it all settles to the bottom. So you pour off and then like do the water on top. And I had to do that several times. And then after that, I would dry them. So pour off as much water as I could and then just leave them to dry. Um, and then let's see, what did I do? Put them in, I would put them in like little like vials or whatever, and then put them on slides and then use a pipette to take out, like in water, to take out what I thought were fossils and put them on little slide thingies. [00:04:54] Diya Gaur: Oh, wow, whoa, that's really cool actually, wait, that's really cool. So wait, how, I just can't imagine, like, those mussels must be really tiny then, right? Yeah,  [00:05:04] Maoli Vizcaíno: really small. Gosh, I, I should, I should know. It's kind of a while ago. Um, I should remember, but yes, very small. Um, we were measuring them in microns. I'd say sub 250. Sub 250.  [00:05:20] Diya Gaur: Wow, okay, so those are really tiny then. Yeah, so was it like specifically or like just only the rock from Mongolia, or have you also like seen like rocks from other places, or?  [00:05:32] Maoli Vizcaíno: Yeah, so these ones, um, were from Mongolia specifically because of the age, so what we were trying to do was You know, find them to talk. Oh gosh. Um, so these rocks were like 650 million years old. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And so they're in Mongolia is a great place to find rocks of this age. And yeah, so those were like really, really old. Really old fossils. Um, I, you know, through time have also moved more forward in time. Like my master's fossils were from the ocean. So that was like drill core sediments, completely different process. They're not rocks. Um, so that's, that's great. Still kind of method of like picking out the specific ones you want, except with like, uh, they're like the fossils themselves are like little grains of sand. Um, cause these plankton, they make shells. And so then when they die, the shells sink to the sea floor and it's just like sand. But they have specific shapes for each species. So you will know which one to pick, but they're so small. So you take a paintbrush, the smallest one you can, and sometimes you have to like even chop a lot of the little bristles off or whatever. And then you dip that in water. And then you like just poke it, and then you put it on a slide, and the water acts as like an adhesive that sticks to it.  [00:06:57] Diya Gaur: Oh, interesting. Okay.  Interdisciplinary Nature of Geology [00:06:59] Diya Gaur: So you're kind of like going both into like, I guess the more biological and like historical aspects of it? That's pretty interesting, honestly, like, I really love that intersection between geology and biology. You know, I think I mentioned this a bit earlier, but I want to do something related to geobiology as a concentration, or like maybe just do undergrad research in the field, but you know, it's a new and like, or relatively new and emerging field, but you know, there's just so many possibilities with it, and I've mentioned this like quite a few times before on this podcast as well, like not many people understand that there's so many intersections between geology and like all these different sciences, and so it's really cool actually like You know, I think, um, I had this mentor who was in my, like, JJ Pickle research group at UT Austin, and, you know, he went on this trip to Antarctica, and he was telling me that he had this, like, field camp with, like, a bunch of like chemists, biologists, and like all these different types of people. I'm like, whoa, that's so cool. Like, it's so interdisciplinary. I'm like, yeah, love that. So would you say like, you know, that more interdisciplinary side is like kind of what you went into the field like looking for? Or was there something specifically that stuck out to you about geology?  [00:08:15] Maoli Vizcaíno: Yeah, actually, this, yes, I agree. That was really what drew me in as well. I feel like, you know, as a fellow Texan, you know, I'm sure that You know, you're extremely aware of like oil and gas and like that, that like lens for earth science, I think, um, going to college and I took, you know, like my intro geo class, um, it was called the co evolution of earth and life. And I remember thinking it was so awesome, first of all, to like, learn about something and literally see it, see it happening outside. Mm hmm. You know, we, we, we know, we know in our heads, like, as much as we love to complain in school, you know, that, um, the things you learn in school are useful in like, some ways, you know, and it's like, okay, like, literal, these like, literal algebra equations are irritating, but I can kin

Jennifer Peña, former GeoForce student and now an outreach coordinator, gives us the inside scoop on how the program has evolved, and why it’s still rocking today. From the days of quizzes galore to the current project-based fun, Jennifer shares how GeoForce has learned to keep things fresh, exciting, and way less stressful. She walks us through the 10th-grade academy, where students build canyons out of Play-Doh (yep, you read that right) and get up close with geology in places like Antelope Canyon and the Grand Canyon while using the scientific methods! —————— Did you like this podcast? Leave us a rating and review! Follow us on Spotify, Apple Music, or wherever else you get podcasts.  Got a lava questions or want to be featured next? Email me at [email protected] —————— Transcript GeoForce Program Evolution [00:26:01] Diya Gaur: So, also, like, As a previous GeoForce student yourself and now like an outreach coordinator for GeoForce, how do you think like the program has like kind of changed from then versus now?  [00:26:13] Jennifer Peña: I feel like then, also just in the way kind of society was then whenever I was doing it, especially on things like test taking, quiz taking, all of that sort of thing. Whenever I was in the program, every single day we had quizzes. So at the end of every single academy, we would have a quiz, and at the end, like on that last day, we would have a final. It was intense! It was very much Even though, in all honesty, do I think GeoForce would have kicked out half of the kids? No. Do I also think half of the kids would be failing the GeoForce test? No. We were all nerds, and we were all very, like, worried and anxious people. Or little kids. So, I think we were fine. But it was still, it made us very anxious a little bit, and so seeing now this change to more so a project based, um, curriculum is really great, just because it then gives you guys the tools to work together as teams when it's something like the 9th grade, so now we do a 9th grade project at the end of it, where they work as, like, counselor groups or mini counselor groups, So that's really great, or in things like the 10th grade, wherever you guys do a project, and you do, you model a canyon by yourself, so it gives you that create, creativity, and that space to do what, what you would like to do, but also connect it to education, and connect it to what you've been learning throughout the week. So to see that change has been really great. Also, I I really like the 12th grade now, even though I will say whenever I was doing the 12th grade, it being the first one in Austin. And not, um, D. C., which it used to be. It was, it was sad, you know? They had been promising us, oh, on your last year, you're gonna go to Washington, D. C., and it'll be really fun. And at that point, we had traveled every single year, because whenever I was doing the program, the ninth grade was in Florida. And so we had been traveling every single year, so this last year being in Austin was kind of, kind of a downer a little bit for some of us. Um, but being in Austin then made us kind of want to go to UT and realize how interesting it is. So that was a really good change that they made whenever I was in the program. But the fact that now we give you guys these, like, tangible skills at the end of it, and really want you to gain something from GeoForce, whether it be geology or not, is really cool. Um, so just these STEM kind of points and these really good skills that you can use regardless of if you go to the Jackson School or if you study geology. I've seen that change in the program and I've really, really enjoyed it.  [00:29:08] Diya Gaur: That is amazing.  10th Grade Academy Highlights [00:29:11] Diya Gaur: So you did mention the 10th grade, like, canyon modeling project, we, I remember doing that as well, where we had, like, the different colors of play doh, and we put it all together, and then we got judged on how good it was, but on that note, what exactly happens, for our listeners, what exactly happens on the GeoForce 10th grade academy, if you could give us, like, a rundown over the You know, ooh, what makes Arizona, like, Nevada and Utah so special in studying geology? Yeah,  [00:29:41] Jennifer Peña: so, the 10th grade is our American Southwest Academy. So, this is, um, most students second year in the program. So, and it'll be the summer before you begin your 10th grade year in high school. And what we do is we start off going to Utah, we hit up Zion and Bryce Canyon now, which are beautiful, and we talk We then start bringing up this staircase, so the staircase of the rock layers that we are going to be seeing throughout the week. And what the 10th grade really is overall is telling you about geologic time. And which you can really see in the Grand Canyon, which we end up going to. Um, the next day after that, we go to Antelope Canyon and then Glen Canyon Dam. At Glen Canyon Dam, we do talk a little bit about hydropower and how that can be used in general. And also, we have this really fun thing called the Dam Debate. Where we give students each a little kind of role that they're playing, so if they're a farmer, if they live upstream of the dam or downstream of the dam, and then they learn about what these people are going through. As, like, somebody is pitching a dam in their area, and then we have this city hall meeting, which is the dam debate, where students come up, and they, as their role, will explain whether they are for or against the dam, and why. And so that's really cool, because then it gets students thinking about that real world effect of what we're seeing. Afterwards, we then go to horseshoe bandit night, and then the next day, we start off. Our first our two days at the Grand Canyon, which, like I was saying, is kind of this talk about geologic time and the laws, like Steno's laws, so like laws of superposition, laws of law of unconformities, um, things like that. Then, afterwards, we end up going to Flagstaff, and we do Lowell Observatory at night, and then Barringer Meteor Crater at night. And those two are then connecting, um, what we've seen to space, and we do planetary geology a little bit. So then we talk about Mars, and luckily, like we were talking about a little bit earlier, the Jackson School has a lot of different people. There are so many people at the Jackson School who study Mars, and who, who are really into planetary geology. And usually they are the people who then become instructors for our 10th grade. So they have a really nice time leading that last few days because of their knowledge and their background through it. Um, then at the end, this all comes together in the final project where we ask y'all to create a canyon using all the laws and everything you've seen throughout the week. Um, so you have to have five units, I believe, so that's five layers of rock. Um, explain how you know what time each is, have an unconformity, which means a missing rock layer there in the middle somewhere, and explain, hey, why do you know it's an unconformity? Just by looking at it, or do you have to look at fossils in the rock and see, like, oh, the fossils, these fossils are this, this old, these fossils we know are this old, that means there's this much gap in time between these two rocks. So we have y'all talk about that, and then kind of think about, okay, could this canyon that I've created be able to exist on Mars? Based on what we know. So that's kind of, um, a thing of where, okay, if you said that your canyon, yeah, you could tell the time in your canyon because of fossils, then are there fossils on Mars? And then you kind of have those moments where you think about it. And so we really like that because then students, one, get to be creative because they get to create whatever canyon they want. They can, like Dio was saying, make it out of Play Doh, shape it however they want. They get to name their layers however they want. But then also, you have to be thinking about it, so it has to make some type of sense. So we, they make those connections during it, and it's really cool to then see the students who maybe you thought weren't, were not paying attention and did not care, but they have these really cool layers, and they do have an uncomfortably, and it makes sense, and they actually are getting it all together, or throughout the making of the canyon, they're asking these very, These very good questions that even you're, even myself, when I think back. I'm like, I don't think I would have asked those questions in my 10th grade trip, like,  [00:34:32] : I,  [00:34:33] Jennifer Peña: those questions would have gone right over me, so it's really cool to see, and that's the whole 10th grade that then sets us up for the 11th grade. The year later. Mhm.  [00:34:46] Diya Gaur: Yeah, and I think that's so important too, because today, like, I don't really see many opportunities for high school students to learn geology, and that's kind of one of my motivations for making this podcast, but just the fact that GeoForce is able to provide all of these research mentors and just give their experiences out and show that, hey, this is how stuff on Mars and the moon works, I think it's super cool. Like, me personally, I remember Miss Stephanie Suarez, she was on my 10th grade academy and she studies, like, moon rocks, like, all of those different formations on the moon, and I remember she just had a box of rocks and she was like, Hey, you guys can touch this, and now I can say, Yeah, I touched the moon in my 10th grade Geoborce Academy. So it's super cool. I really love the experiences that you guys are giving out to kids and it's really just truly amazing how far it's like going and just the extent of the program is just amazing.  [00:35:43] Jennifer Peña: Yeah, exactly. And Stephanie is an alumni. Stephanie is from Houston and did the GeoForce program and then decided to go into geology. So it's just amazi

How do hands-on experiences translate into skills in the workforce? On this episode of the Art of Subduction, we hear from GeoFORCE alum Jennifer Peña and her journey in both pursuing and working in the geosciences! Hear about her GeoFORCE experience, and how her experiences have helped shape her career. —————— Did you like this podcast? Leave us a rating and review! Follow us on Spotify, Apple Music, or wherever else you get podcasts.  Got a lava questions or want to be featured next? Email me at [email protected] ——————   Transcript iously, because, you know, parents. They were just kind of waiting for that at the end of orientation slide to say, okay, well now it's cost this much and this much and this much to do the trips. But they were very happy when it did not say that, so that was great. Um, and then doing it all throughout four years was pretty wonderful.  Discovering a Passion for Geology [00:01:44] Jennifer Peña: I will say I did not initially get into GeoForce because I was in love with rocks. I was more so in love with the idea of having these new experiences, you know, meeting these new people, especially people outside of my hometown. And then it just so happened that doing it, I fell in love with geology a little bit. And after our 11th grade trip, which is for Geo4s, for people who don't know, is the trip that we go to the Pacific Northwest and we go to places like Mount Hood, Crater Lake. Being there, I realized, okay, well, I can do geology. Like, it's interesting. It's more than just these beautiful places, you know, there is science behind it and there's reasoning behind it. And so that kind of interested me. And then our twelfth grade trip, my year was the first year they brought us to Austin, and the first year they started doing, like, the Austin trip as the twelfth grade trip, and so it really kind of solidified that I was going to apply to UT after being here. I realized, okay, well, I'll do that. I'll do geology at UT, I'll apply, let's see what happens. And then I was fortunate enough to get in, and so then I did my Bachelor's in Geoscience here at UT. It was pretty, pretty fun. Pretty good time.  [00:03:01] Diya Gaur: Wow. That's amazing. Actually, yeah, I can relate to that a lot, myself, as like, you know, I went on these GeoForce trips, and now I actually want to pursue a major in Geology, so to hear that from you, like, as someone who shares that experience, like, super inspiring, that's really cool. Yeah,  [00:03:17] Jennifer Peña: it's, it's insane. And I don't think I would have, if I were to talk to my ninth grade self, she would not say, oh you're doing geology and you did this and you did that, you're working for GeoForce, like none of that, none of that would have even like come to my mind. But after all these experiences, I don't know, GeoForce just hooked me in a little bit. True,  [00:03:38] Diya Gaur: true.  Studying Geosciences at UT [00:03:38] Diya Gaur: So, I mean, how would you describe your overall experience, like, studying at UT and the geosciences there?  [00:03:45] Jennifer Peña: Studying at UT was really incredible because it allowed me to do so many things within the realm of geology. I will say whenever I did come into it, I kind of came into it with the base, Of, okay, I'm gonna do geology, I'm gonna go to oil and gas, and that's my life. Like, that is what's gonna happen, and that's how I'm gonna make money, and that's how I'm gonna, like, progress. Because that's kind of all I knew, and at the time, GeoForce was more so interested in showing that aspect of it, because that was a lot of our donor base. And so, that's really kind of most of what I knew about geology. And then coming to the Jackson School, I realized there's so much more, and there's so many more possibilities. Like, I didn't even know about hydrogeology or anything like that until I got here, and I saw that people were majoring in that, and people were making their whole lives around things of that sort. So, eventually, I mean, I'm not a geologist right now, I did not choose to pursue that path 100%, Um, but I will say it is largely because of the Jackson School that I am now where I am today, which is doing kind of science communication and outreach, because at the Jackson School, there are courses like Geoethics, where they talk about, like, ethical issues in geology, and how just the modern, everyday person sees geology and faces it. And then there's a broader impacts course. Which then has you pick certain scientific topics that are currently kind of in the forefront of everyone's mind or maybe not so out there, but people who study those sciences do deal with it on a day to day basis. So it's stuff like, oh, how is field camp run for geologists? Which, I love field camp, it's great, but it also is really expensive. So we kind of talked about stuff like that. And so I will say, like, being at the Jackson School allowed me to learn all these different facets of what geosciences can be, as well as, you know, like what we taught you guys on the 12th grade, so there's like, there's doing Python and doing coding, there is analyzing cores, paleontology, all this realm of things that I probably would not have known if it were not for the Jackson School and GeoForce together. [00:06:10] Diya Gaur: Right. Okay, that's so cool. I love to hear it. So, I mean, you mentioned so many different courses, like Geoethics, but which one was your favorite?  The Broader Impacts Course [00:06:18] Diya Gaur: Ooh, easily the Broader Impacts course.  [00:06:21] Jennifer Peña: Easily. Okay. So, um, I had a professor, his name is Adam Papendiek, at the Jackson School, and he is a science writer at the Jackson School and led a course on broader impacts. Now, I will say I was taking this during COVID, and so it was a little bit skewed just because we couldn't see each other face to face all the time. But even then, it still impacted me so much because it was the first time I took a science based course. Because it's also a course in the Jackson School. Like, it is a fully Jackson School run course. But it was the first time I took one that did not prioritize science. the science necessarily, and more so prioritized, okay, what is happening to people? How are they being affected? How is what you're learning going to really change the lives of people afterwards? Importance of Science Communication [00:07:14] Jennifer Peña: And so that's when it kind of clicked to me where, which is what I've told you guys and what I tell, um, all of our students, is at the end of the day, we love that you know the science and we love that you're interested. But if you cannot share that with people, then what really is the point? You know, like, if you are hoarding all of this grand information and all of this science to yourselves, then really what is the point of having that knowledge? You have to be able to talk about it and connect it to people and make them kind of Make them, one, know how it's going to affect them, so they know how to decide what to do next, and two, make them interested. Because, I mean, I can talk about rocks all day, but if I don't make it sound fun, and if I'm just, I'm just talking about rocks like this, and low, and Then nobody's gonna nobody's gonna care, really, at the end of the day. So, that course really did help me out with Realizing that that is what I wanted to do.  [00:08:17] Diya Gaur: Right. And like, it's also so important that we know how geosciences work because we live on the earth and we should know about where we're living. So yeah, really important to know about that, especially like for younger people as well. Encouraging Gen Z to Study Geology [00:08:31] Diya Gaur: We're both Gen Z, correct? Yeah, cuz, yes, yes, yes, we are both Gen  [00:08:39] Speaker 3: Z.  [00:08:40] Diya Gaur: Okay, so, in that sense, I'm just saying like, um, for younger Gen Z, like, people who are around my age, like, in high school, like, a lot of kids don't know what they want to do, actually, and so, the fact that GeoForce is, like, exposing kids early on is super important, and then it just gives them a deeper understanding of Exactly where they are in the world, like, you know, all this different type of stuff, like, how the sciences affect our day to day lives. So that's really an important part of what you are doing, and GeoForce, and so I find that super cool.  [00:09:14] Jennifer Peña: No, that is so true, like, there is so many people that I've met now at the Jackson School PhD, And I talk about geoforce and all the things and they go, Oh, I didn't even know about geology until my junior year of college because I took a random geology class because I needed a science and then I realized I loved it. And it just goes to show kind of how impactful geology can be because it has all these connections. Because you can be doing physics, you can be doing chemistry, you can be doing biology, math, all of these things do impact geology and can connect in different ways, it's just depending on what you like, so if you like to code, you can do geology, if you like to work with plants and animals and the environment, you can do geology. If you like to work with people instead and kind of help them out, you can do geology, it just, we don't show young people that enough, I don't think.  [00:10:16] Diya Gaur: Right, you actually answered my next question, I was going to ask you why should Gen Zers study geology, but you answered it perfectly.  [00:10:25] Speaker 3: Also,  [00:10:25] Jennifer Peña: I would also say that it is a good way to kind of, well of course, everyone loves the outdoors, go hike, go outside, you know, get connected with nature. But also, then you can realize, like, hey, maybe, maybe I did like Python, but I wanted to be outside more, or I wanted to actually, or I have this small inkling of liking biology, but I don't really know how to do that. Geology can make those kind of connections and make

In this episode of The Art of Subduction, Diya reconnects with GeoFORCE coordinator Eleanor Cote to explore the impact of hands-on learning and accessibility in geosciences. They discuss GeoFORCE’s 11th-grade academy's trip to the Pacific Northwest, where students come face-to-face with formations like Mount St. Helens and Crater Lake. Eleanor and Diya reflect on the importance of hands-on learning, especially when it comes to their own learning. Hear more from Eleanor on what it was like to study geology at UT Austin, how she overcame its challenges, and why it’s beneficial to study geology.   Stay tuned for part 2! —————— Did you like this podcast? Leave us a rating and review! Follow us on Spotify, Apple Music, or wherever else you get podcasts.  Got a lava questions or want to be featured next? Email me at [email protected] —————— Transcript [00:00:00] Diya Gaur: Hello and welcome to The Artist's Production. My name is Diya and today I'm here with… [00:00:17] Eleanor Cote: with Eleanor! My name is Eleanor. I am a coordinator with I've been a program coordinator now for two years, and I had the pleasure of having Diya as one of my students for two of the summers.  [00:00:35] Diya Gaur: Yay!  [00:00:36] Eleanor Cote: 11th and 12th grade, right? Yes. Yes. So, Eleanor was one of my coordinators for the 11th grade academy, as well as the 12th grade academy. Um, it was super fun actually, like 12th grade we did like the research project and then 11th grade is what you're coordinating now, right?  [00:00:55] Eleanor Cote: Um, so I, program coordinators typically do, um, a couple of different things. Academies per summer, but it doesn't necessarily stay the same each summer. So, for example, last summer, I did, um, one of the 9th grades, I did two 10th grades, and then I did the 11th grade that you were on, um, then this summer, I did a 9th grade, I did, um, two 11th grades and then I did the 12th grade so I think next summer I'll probably be following along the two 11th grade academies that I had so I'll go and be with them on the 12th grade and then I'm not too sure what they're going to give me it kind of depends on just availability and then sometimes they want us to follow some of the groups that we had but it's not always a guarantee so yeah I think the schedule's out right now but I'm not I'm not too Like, I'm not for sure yet which one I'm doing, so, TBD. [00:01:51] Diya Gaur: Can you tell me a bit more about the 11th grade academy and what goes on during it?  [00:01:57] Eleanor Cote: Yeah, absolutely. So, the 11th grade, as you remember, is probably Coined as one of our best trips just because we take our students to a completely new environment. And so, um, just a bit of background, uh, the ninth grade students, they stay in Texas and they do like, um, life of the sediment, learn about the rock cycle, um, just introduction to geology, um, sophomore year, they go to Utah and Arizona. So it's sort of like the American Southwest kind of desert environments, which it's hot. And many students in Texas know that that's, you know, what Texas is like too, so it's not unfamiliar to them. But then going up to the Pacific Northwest on the 11th grade trip We take students up to, uh, places like Mount St. Helens, Mount Hood, and we see, um, like these big stratovolcanoes that you're not used to seeing in Texas at all. I think there is one quote unquote volcano in Austin. It's called Pilot Knob, and it literally just looks like this. A hill. So, um, students get to see these actual, like, big volcanoes for the first time, and then we talk to them a lot about geologic hazards, and what life is like on an active margin, and so, life on the coast, up in Oregon and Washington, you are sitting right on an active margin, and so, there is a lot of tectonic activity happening, um, You got, uh, plates subducting into one another, causing, um, you know, melt, and so that's why you have this line of volcanoes running from, I think it's like Northern California up all the way up into Canada, and so we hit several volcanoes on that line. We start off Mount St. Helens the first day, we go to Mount Hood the second day, um, we go by the, I think it's the three sisters, um, we see like Mount, gosh, there's so many, I can't even remember the names of them, um, but you see them all in the distance, right, and they're kind of all in a line, and so we talk about them all being in a line, and and explain to students like how the plates are subducting and why it's causing all of these volcanoes to be sort of in line with one another, right? And then we take students to Crater Lake which is a caldera, which is basically a volcano that exploded very violently and then collapsed in on itself. And then we take students to uh, what's it called? The Newberry Caldera, so they see another version of a caldera. And then we go out to the coast and we talk about the geologic hazards happening out there. So the Oregon coastline is prone to having tsunamis. And so a lot of people typically don't think of tsunamis when they're thinking of like geologic hazards, but whenever there's an earthquake happening deep at sea, you know, miles off the coast, that can cause a huge tsunami to come and devastate the entire coastline. Um, so we teach students all about that too because tsunamis typically don't happen on the Texas coast, the Gulf of Mexico is typically pretty calm, um, and so we like to show students that there are a number of other things to worry about. Besides just, like, tornadoes and hurricanes that we typically receive in Texas, um, and it's also really amazing to get students out of their environment of, um, being in, like, you know, humid Houston or, like, deserty Southwest Texas. You know, we go up and see these huge pine trees and, um, get to experience cooler weather, typically. This past year, it was 90 plus degrees in Oregon, and it was actually hotter in Oregon than it was in Texas, which, not fun, but, you know, it's the scenery, and then, like, you get to see these huge mountains that You just don't see in Texas. And so that experience, I feel like for most students and for my, in my own experience too, because I was actually a GeoForce student, that was the trip that made me think like, Oh, the earth is so big and there's so many different types of landscapes and there's so much to study that's not just in my hometown. It's a very unique experience and I think that's really the aha moment for a lot of kids being like, maybe this is something I could pursue. Kite  [00:06:17] Diya Gaur: Yeah, no,  [00:06:17] Eleanor Cote: actually  [00:06:18] Diya Gaur: I have the booklet from the 11th grade academy, I actually have it right in front of me right now. It's the one that we get on every trip, the, like this one? The 11th grade academy, right, and so it just gives us an overview of the trip, right, and then, I mean, I remember learning a lot of this stuff and also the name of the podcast comes from like Something I learned on the trip, the art of subducting, so, you know, those connections are really there. Yeah. What was your experience on that trip? Actually, okay, that was my favorite trip. I think that is the trip that convinced me to go into geology. I was like, Yeah, I can definitely see myself studying this for the, like, next, like, how many ever years, and I think just geology is a field where you'll never get tired of what you're learning. There's just so much to learn and find out about the earth that it's like, when you're helping others, like, I like to help people. There's a lot of different fields where you can help people, but one thing about geology is that you're kind of bringing up a subject which is so essential to, like, life in general. So we have the issue of, like, climate change, which is going on. It's really important that we get people educated on that, and so that first step of, like, educating people comes from geologists who have to study the environment, like the planet, and then get that information out there to educate the rest of the, you know, world, really. [00:07:38] Eleanor Cote: Absolutely. And I think it's interesting to show students that this type of science is happening in all different corners of the US and of the world. I mean, obviously, GeoForce, we are just, you know, sort of like a US based program, but I mean, these types of Things and this type of research is happening all, all around on all corners of the globe. I mean, we have researchers at UT who go down to Antarctica. We had a expedition that just went up to Greenland. Um, I mean, people who are studying down in Argentina and Chile and, you know, over in Zimbabwe, you know, places that you wouldn't think like, Oh yeah, let me go do science there. But like science is happening there. And it's. It's exciting to see and it's exciting to be a part of, definitely.  [00:08:30] Diya Gaur: Yeah, and also, so my research mentor who I was with at the 12th grade academy, he's one of the people who went to Greenland for his research. And so he was telling me that when they go on these really big trips for whatever study or just research that they're doing. doing in general. They have like these super big groups of different types of scientists who come together and they all kind of just collaborate like between biologists, chemists, geologists. I think that is so cool. That is so amazing. And honestly, it's a very interdisciplinary field, like geology in general. So you need all of these different types of people. And there's a lot of ways you can go with geology. It's not just like learning about the earth, but also It's relationships with, like, other things.  [00:09:16] Eleanor Cote: Absolutely! I feel like that's what I always tell students, um, whenever they're asking me about, like, what can I go into? Because I feel like whenever I think of geoscientists, I just think of, you know, old dudes who are looking like Indiana Jones studying rocks