The Integrated Schools Podcast

We are back! Welcome to Season 13 of The Integrated Schools Podcast. It’s been almost eight years and over 170 episodes, but as we kick off this new season, we are reflecting on where we find ourselves—as a country, as an organization, and in our own lives. Val is navigating life with a college freshman (who earned a 100% on his first African American Studies test!) and a high school senior, while Andrew is stepping into the classroom for the first time as a high school audio engineering and musical theater teacher. These real-world transitions ground us in the ongoing, messy work of wrestling with parenting, privilege, and public education. In this kickoff episode, we take a hard look at the state of public education right now. With federal rollbacks on civil rights enforcement, decreasing oversight, and expanding voucher and privatization schemes, the national landscape feels tricky and daunting. Yet, even in this moment, we find local reasons for hope. Across the country—from Denver and Winston-Salem to Charlotte-Mecklenburg, Montgomery County, and beyond—school districts are undergoing boundary redraws and student assignment reviews that explicitly aim to reduce socioeconomic segregation. These local efforts remind us that when the ground is shifting, there is an opportunity to build toward real change if we show up and demand it. As we look ahead to Season 13, we are focused on tilling the soil for future systemic change and radicalizing our hope. Guided by Dr. Loretta Ross's reminder to "hold our link in the chain," we are preparing to dream together about what public education could look like on the other side of this moment. Throughout the season, we'll be bringing in a diverse range of voices—including Afrofuturists, Indigenous thinkers, youth, and caregivers of students with special needs—to imagine a truly just, multiracial education system beyond simply rebuilding what was. How are you holding your link in the chain during this political moment, and what does your dream for a truly integrated, multiracial public education system look like? LINKS Share your thoughts, local stories, or feedback via voice memo at speakpipe.com/integratedschools or email [email protected] Support the show and access monthly happy hours, show notes, and discussion guides on Patreon (http://patreon.com/integratedschools) Explore or connect with an Integrated Schools Local Chapter (https://integratedschools.org/chapters) Listen to the Season 12 finale: Val’s reflection on parenting transitions and letting go (https://integratedschools.org/podcast/s12e17-reflections-on-season-12/) Join the Movement Support is a verb! Help keep these unsponsored, nuanced conversations going by joining our Patreon community, (https://www.patreon.com/integratedschools) starting a podcast listening group in your neighborhood, or sharing this episode with a friend. The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits. This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Val Brown. It was edited and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits. Music by Kevin Casey. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

As we wrap up another school year, we're taking a moment to reflect on the conversations, challenges, and lessons that shaped Season 12. This year, we explored what it means to build belonging, strengthen community, advocate for public education, and stay connected through uncertainty. Along the way, we learned from educators, organizers, authors, students, parents, and community members who reminded us that while the challenges facing our schools are real, none of us are facing them alone. We also hear from listeners navigating school closures, parent organizing, and the everyday joys of integrated schools. Their stories remind us that community is built not only through big moments, but through the choices we make to show up for one another again and again. In This Episode Belonging matters One of the biggest themes we kept returning to this season was belonging. From conversations about disability justice to discussions about third spaces and community care, we explored what it looks like to create schools and communities where everyone feels seen, valued, and connected. The power of conversation and community This season reinforced something we deeply believe: meaningful change happens in relationship with one another. We reflected on lessons from guests like Dr. Loretta Ross, who reminded us that none of us are responsible for fixing everything alone. The work becomes sustainable when it's rooted in community. Public education under pressure Throughout the season, we examined some of the challenges facing public education today, including: School closures and spatial injustice (https://integratedschools.org/podcast/s12e12-spatial-injustice-school-closures-as-a-form-of-educational-redlining/) The resurgence of "massive resistance" to educational equity (https://integratedschools.org/podcast/s12e9-staying-power-with-danielle-wingfield/) Immigration enforcement's impact on students and families (https://integratedschools.org/podcast/s12e10-caring-for-your-community-in-a-time-of-crisis-on-the-ground-in-minneapolis/) The ongoing struggle for educational justice across generations Learning from history Again and again, our guests reminded us that today's struggles are connected to longer histories of organizing, resistance, and collective action. From the Lemon Grove desegregation case to reflections on Thurgood Marshall's legacy, we explored how history can help guide us through the present moment. Listener Reflections We also heard from listeners who shared: The grief and organizing that can emerge when a neighborhood school closes The importance of family voice and participation in public schools Moments of joy that remind us why integrated schools matter A Few Things We're Carrying Forward Belonging is foundational to healthy schools and communities. Public education is strongest when families, educators, and communities work together. History can offer both perspective and possibility. Community sustains us through uncertainty. There is real joy to be found in learning, growing, and building alongside people whose experiences differ from our own. Looking Ahead As we prepare for another season—and as our own families navigate major transitions—we're thinking about what comes next. What conversations are you having in your community? What challenges are showing up in your schools? What stories should we be telling together? Send us a voice memo: speakpipe.com/integratedschools Thank you for listening, learning, and staying in community with us throughout Season 12. We're grateful to all of our guests, our listeners, and everyone committed to creating public schools that serve all of our children. Check out our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us. https://bookshop.org/shop/IntegratedSchools Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further. https://www.patreon.com/integratedschools Subscribe to our YouTube Channel for video versions of our episodes. https://www.youtube.com/@integratedschools Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – IntegratedSchools on Facebook, @integratedschools on Instagram and TikTok, or email us [email protected]. The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits.d This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Val Brown. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits. Music by Kevin Casey. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

On the 72nd anniversary of Brown v. Board of Education, Andrew and Dr. Val sit down with Cecilia Marshall — granddaughter of Supreme Court Justice Thurgood Marshall and founder of the newly launched Thurgood Marshall Foundation. Together, they reflect on what it means to carry forward a legacy rooted not in individual heroism, but in collective courage, sacrifice, and community responsibility. Ms. Marshall shares intimate stories of knowing Thurgood Marshall simply as “Grandpa,” and how, only later in life, she came to understand the magnitude of his work and the sacrifices made by the families behind Brown v. Board. The conversation explores the importance of telling these histories honestly — especially to children — and why public schools remain one of our most important democratic institutions. From the bravery of the 200+ plaintiffs across the five Brown cases, to present-day debates around diversity, public education, and belonging, this episode asks what it means to build bridges in a deeply polarized moment — and what responsibilities we each carry in shaping a more just future for all children. In honor of the 72nd anniversary of Brown v. Board of Education, Integrated Schools is launching the 1954 Campaign. - https://give.socialgoodfund.org/1954campaign We are asking you to give: $19.54 $195.40 $1,954 or any amount meaningful to you Half of the proceeds will support the Thurgood Marshall Foundation and its work preserving and sharing this history with future generations. - https://give.socialgoodfund.org/1954campaign LINKS: The Thurgood Marshall Foundation - https://thurgoodmarshall.org/ Integrated Schools 1954 Campaign - Please donate today! - https://give.socialgoodfund.org/1954campaign Justice Marshall's Liberty Medal Acceptance Speech - https://www.naacpldf.org/press-release/thurgood-marshalls-stirring-acceptance-speech-after-receiving-the-prestigious-liberty-award-on-july-4-1992/ Recovering Untold Stories: An Enduring Legacy of the Brown v. Board of Education Decision - https://npshistory.com/publications/brvb/recovering-untold-stories.pdf Becoming Thurgood: America's Social Architect - PBS Documentary about Thurgood Marshall -https://www.pbs.org/show/becoming-thurgood-americas-social-architect/ Brown v Board @ Sixty Five: The Stories We Tell Ourselves (our 5 part series on the Brown decision) Ep 18 – Rucker Johnson and the Grandchildren of Desegregation (BvB@65) - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/ep-18-rucker-johnson-and-the-grandchildren-of-desegregation-bvb65/ Ep 19 – Segrenomics, Black Teachers, and Noliwe Rooks (BvB@65) - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/ep-19-segrenomics-black-teachers-and-noliwe-rooks-bvb65/ Ep20 – Amanda Lewis on Desegregation Without Integration (BvB@65) - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/ep20-amanda-lewis-on-desegregation-without-integration-bvb65/ Ep 21 – Beyond Black and White with David Hinojosa (BvB@65) - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/21-hinojosa/ Ep 22 – I Hope They Hear It In Our Voices (BvB@65) - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/ep-22-i-hope-they-hear-it-in-our-voices-bvb65/ S7E3 – Generational Work: Stefan Lallinger on Integration - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/lallinger/ NAACP Legal Defense Fund - https://www.naacpldf.org/ Send us a voice memo: speakpipe.com/integratedschools Check out our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us. https://bookshop.org/shop/IntegratedSchools Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further. https://www.patreon.com/integratedschools Subscribe to our YouTube Channel for video versions of our episodes. https://www.youtube.com/@integratedschools Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – IntegratedSchools on Facebook, @integratedschools on Instagram and TikTok, or email us [email protected]. The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits.d This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Val Brown. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits. Music by Kevin Casey. The Brown v Board Plaintiffs The bundle of five cases commonly referred to as Brown v. Board actually contained more than 200 plaintiffs. Below are their names and their associated cases. Belton v. Gebhart (Bulah v. Gebhart) Delaware State Court, Wilmington, Delaware Ethel Belton Sarah Bulah Joseph Crumpler John W. Davis Emma Fountain Barbara Byrd Henry Charles Hill Lois May Johnson Mary Johnson Willie Robinson John Short Harlan Trotter Bolling v. Sharpe U.S. District Court, Washington, D.C. Mrs. Sarah Bolling Spottswood Thomas Bolling Wanamaker Von Bolling William Briscoe Sarah Louise Briscoe James C. Jennings Adrienne Jennings Barbara Jennings Consolidated Parent Group, Inc. Briggs et al v. Elliott et al. U.S. District Court, Eastern Division, Charleston, South Carolina James Bennett Onetha Bennett Harry Briggs Robert Georgia Annie Gibson Gilbert H. Henry Susan Lawson Frederick Oliver Mary Oliver Mose Oliver Bennie Parson Edward Ragin Hazel Ragin William Ragin Lee Richardson Lucrisher Richardson Rebecca Richburg Henry Scott William Stukes Gabriel Tindal Davis v. County School Board of Prince Edward County U.S. District Court, Richmond, Virginia Hal Edward Allen (father) Hal Verner Allen (son) Margaret G. Allen (grandmother) James Henry C. Allen (grandson) Margaret G. Allen (mother) Herman Alexander Allen (son) Florence Gertrude Allen (daughter) Thomas H. Allen (father) Herman Wesley Allen (son) Thelma Leola Allen (daughter) Ellen Banks (guardian) John Banks, Jr. (guardee) Frankie Louise Berkeley Eddie Bigger (father) Virginia Bigger (daughter) Katie H. Bigger Leonard R. Bland (father) Floyd M. Bland (son) Reginald W. Bland (son) Clara S. Booker (mother) Blanche A. Booker (daughter) Ronald O.F. Booker (son) Joseph E. Booker (father) Loretta Booker (daughter) Carrie Brown James Brown (father) Phillip J. Brown (son) Nelson Carey (father) Mary Lizzie Carey (daughter) Anna Bell Carey (daughter) John Davis Rosa Bell Davis Isaiah Dennis (father) Adline Dennis (daughter) Charlie Dupuy (father) Pauline Dupuy (daughter) Susie Earley (mother) Bertha E. Earley (daughter) Helen Virginia Epps (mother) Alma D. Epps (daughter) Helen M. Epps (daughter) Agnes Farrar (guardian) Walker Camp Farrar (guardee) Alice Fowlkes (guardian) Alexander Fowlkes (guardee) Leroy McCormick (guardee) Amanda Goode Frances Goode (mother) Willie L. Goode (son) Katherine Goode (daughter) Dolly M. Goode (daughter) Harry S. Hall Thomas Hall (guardian) Mary E. Couch (guardee) Elsie Hargwood (mother) Junita Hargwood (daughter) Virginia Harris (mother) Ethel D. Harris (daughter) C.W. Hicks (father) Deloris Hicks (daughter) Marjorie Hicks (daughter) Inez O. Hicks Sarah Elizabeth Hicks (mother) Leigh Edward Hicks (son) Mosley Jefferson (father) Dorothy Alice Jefferson (daughter) Carrie Irene Jefferson (daughter) Robert Johns (father) Barbara Rose Johns (daughter) Joan Marie Johns (daughter) Kate Johnson (mother) Burnell Johnson, Jr. (son) Jasper W. Jones (father) Peter Jasper Jones (son) John Paul Jones (son) Nannie Lee (mother) George Lee (son) Sopophonie Miller (mother) Mattie Jean Miller (daughter) Herman Monroe (father) John Monroe (son) Harry Monroe (son) Richard Monroe (son) Emma H. Morton Mary Moton Viola W. Neal (mother) Catherine Neal (daughter) Lee Emmett Neal (son) Alma Randle (mother) Rosetta E. Randle (daughter) Ethel L. Randle (daughter) Martin R. Randle (son) Silas Redd (father) Gladys E. Redd (daughter) Charlie Redd (son) Nellie J. Richardson (mother) Jeanel E. Richardson (daughter) Anita Louise Richardson (daughter) Pinkie Rowlette (guardian) Reginald Rowlette (guardee) Alice Goins (guardee) Rowland D. Saunders (father) Vernethia C. Saunders (daughter) Henry Scott (father) Henry Scott, Jr. (son) Otis Scott (father) John Henry Scott (son) Walter Wallace Scott (son) Thomas H. Scott P.H. Shepperson (father) Lester Shepperson (son) Florine Shepperson (daughter) Willie Lee Shepperson (son) Louise Sims (mother) Helen L. Sims (daughter) Rebecca A. Sims (daughter) Sallie Spencer (mother) Mary L. Spencer (daughter) James Spencer (son) Alice M. Stokes (mother) John Arthur Stokes (son) Carrie Stokes (daughter) Jannie Streat (mother) Mary E. Streat (daughter) Pattie Taylor (mother) Dorothy L. Taylor (daughter) W. Howard Thompson (father) Frances Thompson (daughter) Rachel J. Thomson (daughter) John Townsend (father) Mildred Junita Townsend (daughter) Arlene Shirley Townsend (daughter) Mary Trent (mother) Barbara Reese Trent (daughter) Rose Marie Trent (daughter) Mattie Vaughan (mother) Calvin A. Vaughan (son) Maude E. Walker (mother) John Junius Walker (son) Maude Estelle Walker (daughter) Theophilus Walker (father) Edward Leon Walker (son) Mabel Gertrude Walker (daughter) John L. Watkins (father) Stella Watkins (daughter) John Watson, Sr. (father) John Watson, Jr. (son) Eva Werkler (mother) Rosa M. Werkler (daughter) Myrtle V. West (mother) Metteaner S. West (son) W.C. West (father) Barbara Jean West (daughter) Olivia Wiley (mother) Ettal L. Wiley (daughter) Frank Williams (father) Bessie Williams (daughter) Mildred Williams (daughter) Louise Willis Amelia Womack (mother) Clarence W. Womack (son) Aubrey D. Womack (son) Bert S. Womack (father) Elizabeth Womack (daughter) Leslie Woolridge Oliver L. Brown et al v. Board of Education of Topeka, Shawnee County, Kansas U.S. District Court, Topeka, Kansas Oliver Leon Brown Darlene Brown Lena M. Carper Sadie Emmanuel Marguerite Emmerson* Shirla Fleming Mrs. Andrew (Zelma) Henderson Shirley Hodison Mrs. Richard (Maude) Lawton Alma Lewis Iona Richardson Vivian Scales

We're revisiting our conversation with Dr. Loretta Ross because her book, Calling In: How to Start Making Change with Those You’d Rather Cancel, is the Integrated Schools book club pick for this month. You can register for one of our amazing, free book club sessions here- https://integratedschools.org/book-club/ We’re joined by MacArthur “Genius” and legendary activist Dr. Loretta Ross for a conversation that left us grounded, challenged, and deeply moved. From her early work in reproductive justice and anti-violence movements, to her current mission disrupting “call-out culture,” Dr. Ross offers us a path forward rooted in grace, accountability, and radical love. We explore what it means to “call in” rather than call out—especially in an era where public shaming feels ever-present and social media rewards outrage. Dr. Ross shares her personal story of trauma, healing, and transformation, and helps us understand how real change happens not through perfection or purity, but through connection and curiosity. Together we unpack the power of holding ourselves and others accountable without dehumanizing. We talk parenting, public schools, and what it means to stay in the struggle without breaking our link in the “chain of freedom.” Whether you’re navigating tricky conversations in your school community or trying to show up better in the fight for justice, this episode is for you. LINKS: Register for book club! - https://integratedschools.org/book-club/ Calling In: How to Start Making Change with Those You’d Rather Cancel – Dr. Ross’s new book - https://bookshop.org/a/18658/9781982190798 What If Instead of Calling People Out, We Called Them In? – NY Times Article about Dr. Ross’s work - https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/19/style/loretta-ross-smith-college-cancel-culture.html?unlocked_article_code=1.5k8.FdWT.To52fmpJVCqh&smid=url-share What Is A Good Parent? Blog post by NY Chapter member, Meredith Winfrey - https://integratedschools.org/what-is-a-good-parent/ Mothers of Massive Resistance: White Women and the Politics of White Supremacy – Dr. Elizabeth McRae - https://bookshop.org/a/18658/9780190088392 Ep 11 – White Women and the Politics of White Supremacy – Dr. McRae’s 1st time on our show - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/mcrae/ S5E14 – White Supremacy and Black Educational Excellence – Dr. McRae’s 2nd time on our show - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/ncsd/ Send us a voice memo: speakpipe.com/integratedschools Check out our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us. - https://bookshop.org/shop/IntegratedSchools Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further. - https://www.patreon.com/integratedschools Subscribe to our YouTube Channel for video versions of our episodes. - https://www.youtube.com/@integratedschools Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – IntegratedSchools on Facebook, @integratedschools on Instagram and TikTok, or email us [email protected]. The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits. This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Val Brown. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits. Music by Kevin Casey. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

We’re going back to the archives today to revisit a conversation with Heather McGhee. In February of 2021, Heather McGhee’s book, The Sum of Us came out. With a focus on the ways in which racism harms everyone, and the potential good that can come from cross-racial coalitions, the book was exciting to us. When we realized that Integrated Schools was featured prominently in the chapter about education, we were blown away. The book is based around three main concepts. The first is the “zero-sum lie of racial hierarchy”, or the idea that progress for people of color necessarily has to come at White folks’ expense. The second is the idea of the “drained pool,” the disinvestment by White people in public goods simply because they have to share them with people of color. And finally, the “solidarity dividend,” the idea of gains that we can unlock, but only when we come together across lines of difference. This last idea, the most hopeful, inspired Ms. McGhee to go back on the road and make a podcast documenting examples of the Solidarity Dividend in action. She joins us to discuss the podcast, what it means to be a good ally, the power of relationships in sustaining movements, and what role the Integrated Schools community should play in participating in the current, cross-racial movement for public education. LINKS Ms. McGhee’s first appearance on our show - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/mcgheerevisited/ The Sum of Us Podcast - https://podnews.net/podcast/ia1wj/listen The Sum of Us Book - https://bookshop.org/a/18658/9780525509585 James Haslem from HEAL Together - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/s7e16-anti-crt-book-bans-and-a-call-to-heal/ Ms. McGhee and Victor Ray’s Op-Ed in the NYT - https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/01/opinion/us-school-citizenship.html California Calls – organizing in California - https://www.cacalls.org/ Ms. McGhee’s mother – Dr. Gail Christopher - https://drgailcchristopher.com/ Truth, Racial Healing, and Transformation - https://cms.megaphone.fm/organizations/7abbf9fc-e33e-11eb-a3af-5fbc7a3736ff/podcasts/d1296abe-27a8-11ec-9d00-4b96b8f98080/episodes/b165169a-46c1-11ed-8b49-2f476e1a4dc9/healourcommunities.org ACTION STEPS Get involved locally – find organizations that align with your values, and just show up! Take opportunities to share space with folks – school pick up/ drop off is a great place to start Share stories off cross racial solidarity with others. Stories from The Sum of Us, from our podcast, or from your own life. Use these links or start at our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us. - https://bookshop.org/shop/IntegratedSchools Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further. - https://www.patreon.com/integratedschools Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – @integratedschls on twitter, IntegratedSchools on Facebook, or email us [email protected]. The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits. This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Val Brown. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits. Music by Kevin Casey. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy