Religion To Reality

QUICK SUMMARY What happens when two Catholics spend a season in interfaith dialogue with 30 guests, including monks, rabbis, professors, a Princeton wrestling champion, and a singer-songwriter rewriting the footnotes of the Greek New Testament? In this season finale, Dave and Fr. John sit down alone to answer that question. They unpack the threads that ran through every conversation, reveal (finally) where the name Religion to Reality comes from, and land on one idea that reframes everything: life is about participation, not orchestration. If you've ever wondered whether other traditions threaten your faith or deepen it, start here. IN THIS EPISODE, WE EXPLORE Timestamps are approximate and based on the rough cut — update after final edit. [02:30] "This season has been all about listening." How an unprompted theme from Season 1's discipleship study became the mission of Season 2. [05:00] The season by the numbers. 26 episodes, 30 guests, 9 faith traditions, including two former advisors to President Obama and five current or former monastics. [09:15] "Religion is basically philosophy that involves God" — and why Dave no longer believes that. What the guests revealed about labels, categories, and the colonial origin of the word "Hindu." [13:00] "Life is about participation, not orchestration." Fr. John on why the guests felt "more human than religious." [16:00] Is the church only 21 years old? Richard Rohr's second-half-of-life idea, Nostra Aetate, and whether interfaith dialogue is a sign of the church maturing. [21:00] "It's not about changing things. It's about going deeper in things." [26:15] The names that kept coming up: Thomas Merton, Thich Nhat Hanh, and Bede Griffiths — and what ties them together. [29:45] Threads across traditions: the Jesus Prayer, purification rituals, major illness as spiritual turning point, and contemplation as "open awareness." [34:30] "Catholicism has nothing to say about what a good hike looks like." What Shinto, Daoism, and other traditions taught the hosts about mind-body-spirit integration. [39:00] "Maybe the Trinity is less to be understood and more to be experienced." What the radical oneness of God in Islam illuminated. [42:30] The name reveal. Fr. John finally explains how Alexander Schmemann's For the Life of the World gave the show its name and why Christianity, in Schmemann's view, is "a new life, not a new religion." [48:15] The craft of making this show: the hardest part of interviewing, and why some guests wouldn't talk about their own practice. [56:15] Can you really listen without agenda? Two guests, AJ Levine and Lauren Fister, challenged the season's central question. Fr. John's answer: learn to hear a person's wounds through what they're saying. [1:03:00] "You're telling me you just got lucky enough to be born into the true one?" Dave gets personal about a lifelong insecurity and how this project dissolved it. [1:11:30] Final thoughts: "To affirm our humanity is to affirm our divinity." [1:13:15] What's next: the Substack, and the free monthly interfaith gathering. MEMORABLE QUOTES "Life is about participation, not orchestration." — Fr. John Gribowich "It's not about changing things. It's about going deeper in things." — Fr. John Gribowich "Maybe the Trinity is less to be understood and more to be experienced." — Dave Plisky "To affirm our humanity is to affirm our divinity. That's incarnational theology 101." — Fr. John Gri... Chapters (00:00:00) - Religion to Reality: The Final Episode(00:02:14) - A Christian Holiday: Interreligious Dialogue(00:03:20) - Nine Faith Traditions Talked With(00:06:48) - What Does Religion Mean?(00:07:31) - Religion in the Episodes(00:13:09) - Richard Rohr: The Church's Second Half of Life(00:18:41) - What does it look like to be Christians who recognize the sacramentality(00:22:32) - Thomas Merton, Thich Nhat Hanh and Bede(00:23:41) - The Search for God Through Contemplation(00:26:16) - Topics of Cleanliness and Purification(00:28:26) - Christian Episodes: What Do Other Religions Tell Us About(00:30:23) - Body, Mind, Spirit Integration(00:36:34) - Where Religion to Reality Came From(00:42:09) - The Craft of Making This Podcast(00:46:46) - Being a Good Listener(00:47:50) - In the Elevator With My Wife(00:48:50) - Listening Without An Agenda(00:51:51) - How Do You Appreciate Someone's Wounds?(00:55:07) - Insecurities about Religion(01:01:33) - A Taste of Religion to Reality: Season 3(01:04:31) - A Very Special Thank You!

QUICK SUMMARY What if the entire spiritual life came down to breathing in and breathing out? In our penultimate episode, we sit down with Fr. Cyprian Consiglio, Camaldolese monk, musician, and the Secretary General for Monastic Interreligious Dialogue, for a conversation that ranges from Miles Davis to the Quran, from Taoist silence to quantum physics. He even sings for us. If you've ever wondered how interreligious dialogue actually works, or why the next stage of human evolution might be consciousness itself, hit play. IN THIS EPISODE WE EXPLORE Who are the Camaldolese? The oldest reform within the Benedictine family and their "threefold good", hermitage, monastery, and radical availability to the Spirit. (03:00) The whole spiritual life in one equation: "The love of God is poured in, and the love of God pours back out… you just have to breathe in and breathe out." (07:00) Music born from silence: "The sound of the music you make must be better than the quality of the silence you break." How a mentor's words shaped Cyprian's approach to chant, melody, and "singing the building." (11:00) Setting the Quran to music: why singing sacred texts from other traditions is an act of listening and Cyprian performs his setting of "A Common Word" (Surah 3:64) live. (24:00) Lectio Divina as an interreligious practice: the four levels of scripture's meaning and how his Rome advisory board will apply the method to Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Taoist, and Hindu texts. (28:00) "Seeds of the Word": the 2nd-century idea behind the Church's modern approach to interreligious dialogue, recognize, preserve, and promote what is good, true, and holy in other religions. (34:00) Where religions genuinely disagree: "You'll never hear me say it's all the same." The self, time, and why discernment, not blending, is the real work of dialogue. (39:00) Discovering the silence of God through Buddhism and Taoism and finding it again in his own tradition: "In the beginning was the Tao." (46:00) Why meditation is hard everywhere — from video screens at the gas pump to the noise of India: "Never let the perfect be the enemy of the good." (51:00) The next stage of evolution is consciousness: Einstein, the abolition of slavery, and why this question is "not hypothetical, this is life or death." (55:00) Can AI be conscious? Qualia, the taste of chocolate, and what only humans can preserve. (65:00) Holy vs. enlightened: Cyprian's parting challenge, a fierce commitment to spiritual practice and reading the Beatitudes every day. (70:00) ABOUT FR. CYPRIAN CONSIGLIO Fr. Cyprian Consiglio is a Camaldolese monk, musician, composer, author, and teacher with dozens of recordings and five books, most recently Epiphanies of Nature and Grace (Orbis Books). After a ten-year term as prior of New Camaldoli Hermitage in Big Sur, California, he is now based in Rome, where he serves the Benedictine Confederation and the Cistercian Orders as Secretary General for Monastic Interreligious Dialogue. Books: Epiphanies of Nature and Grace Prayer in the Cave of the Heart: The Universal Call to Contemplation MEMORABLE QUOTE "Artificial intelligence will never know... Chapters (00:00:00) - The Love of God(00:00:29) - Religion to Reality: Music and Silence(00:03:21) - The Kamal Delis charism and martyrs(00:08:28) - Music and the Christian experience(00:10:07) - Philip Glass on Music and Silence(00:17:37) - Singing the Quran to Music(00:22:04) - The Power of Words in Scripture(00:23:28) - "People of the Book for Muslims"(00:32:40) - Crucified Prayer: The Seed of the Word(00:38:24) - The Self and the Real(00:42:45) - Interreligious dialogue: Judaism and Islam(00:45:49) - The Silence of God(00:50:50) - Silence and Listening(00:52:48) - How to meditate effectively(00:55:31) - The Nature of Consciousness(00:58:38) - The Growth of Human Consciousness(01:02:39) - What's the Next Step in Religious Dialogue?(01:05:02) - Bill Maher on Artificial Intelligence's Consciousness(01:10:27) - A Moment of Silence with Father Cyprian

QUICK SUMMARY What happens when the faith container you grew up in no longer fits and you don't want to abandon it? Former nun turned "spiritual wilderness guide" Kelly Deutsch joins Dave and Fr. John to explore the second half of life spirituality: the shift from certainty and security toward mystery, wholeness, and a wilder encounter with God. Kelly shares how 18 months of bedridden illness dismantled her identity, why practices are scaffolding rather than the point, and how guilt can be an invitation into deeper spiritual growth. IN THIS EPISODE WE EXPLORE [00:03] Cold open — "Find the way that you connect with the divine… and that is your path." [01:00] What is "second half of life" spirituality? Dave frames the three responses to a spiritual dilemma: batten down the hatches, throw out the container, or blossom beyond it. [06:30] Kelly's story: an "audacious heart." Meditating an hour a day at 17, discovering Ignatian prayer, and joining a religious community in Rome devoted to spiritual formation. [09:00] The turning point. A sudden, severe illness leaves Kelly bedridden for 18 months and dismantles the three big things: identity, purpose, and community. [12:30] The origins of Spiritual Wanderlust. From a Rome term paper on Augustine and John of the Cross to a book, then a contemplative formation platform with year-long programs like the Women Mystic School, Celtic Spirituality, 20th Century Mystics, and this year's Night School. [16:30] Who shows up — and why. The two hungers Kelly sees in seekers everywhere: depth and community. [24:00] First half vs. second half of life. Building the ego's identity, grasping for certainty and security, until great suffering "dropkicks" us into openness to mystery. [26:30] Religious suburbia vs. the Yukon. Kelly's signature analogy: leaving the HOA-approved color palettes of prescriptive religion for a wilderness that's both gorgeous and terrifying and learning to read your inner compass there. [29:00] "Nothing and everything." How Kelly's Catholicism has changed: dwelling at the mystical heart of Christianity, theosis through kenosis, and why holiness is simply doing the will of God. [35:30] Practices are scaffolding, not the point. Why rote prayer can insulate us from the wildness of God, and how to "catch the breeze" of the Spirit wherever it blows — Lectio Divina, nature, music, or conversation. [40:00] Like-minded vs. different-minded community. The relief of finding fellow "spiritual weirdos," the danger of echo chambers, and why niceness isn't the virtue — kindness is. [46:00] Mothers, guilt, and grace. Why guilt is an indicator worth examining, how parenting confronts us with powerlessness, and why feeling like a hot mess is often exactly where the spiritual path leads. [55:30] Spiritual direction, done holistically. Bringing the body into direction, using Internal Family Systems ("parts work") to untangle the inner life, and honoring John of the Cross's "I know not what." [59:30] Listening without agenda. Dropping "quidgestions," holding a sacred container, and trusting that the second half of life isn't a problem to be fixed. [1:01:30] Where to find Kelly + a look ahead to next episode's guest, Fr. Cyprian Consiglio. ABOUT KELLY DEUTSCH Kelly Deutsch is a spiritual director, teacher, and founder of Spiritual Wanderlust, a platform for contemplative formation and inner transformation. A former nun, she brings 20+ years of experience at the intersection of mysticism, psychology, and embodied spirituality. After a severe illness left her b... Chapters (00:00:00) - Religion to Reality: The Second Half of Life(00:03:20) - Kelly Deutsch(00:05:00) - In the Elevator With John Whitakel(00:06:43) - Nun Turned Spiritual Wilderness Guy(00:12:40) - Spiritual Wanderlust(00:18:25) - The Center for Spiritual Imagination(00:21:18) - You Started Meditating When You Were in High School(00:23:58) - Wonders of Life: The Second Half of Life(00:29:11) - DW: What's Different About My Catholicism?(00:38:20) - On Faith and the Need for Certainty(00:40:08) - What Do We Do About Community?(00:46:18) - The Problem With Young Mothers(00:55:54) - In the Elevator With Spiritual Direction(00:57:48) - Using Parts of Your Inner Life for Spiritual Direction(00:59:07) - Listening Without Agenda(01:01:21) - How to Wander: Spiritual Wanderlust(01:03:04) - Religion to Reality: A Week in the Life

QUICK SUMMARY What if one of the most important women in the Gospels was quietly edited out of the story? New Testament scholar Dr. Elizabeth Schrader Polczer (Villanova University) joins Dave Plisky and Fr. John Gribowich to share how a prayer in a Brooklyn garden, and a pop song, led her from a singer-songwriter career to a discovery in the world's oldest copy of the Gospel of John: the name "Mary" crossed out and changed to "Martha." Her peer-reviewed research is now changing the footnotes of the Greek text behind your Bible. Listen in. This one left Fr. John legitimately amazed. IN THIS EPISODE, WE EXPLORE [00:02:00] — From singer-songwriter to New Testament scholar. Elizabeth traces her spiritual journey from the Episcopal Church through Eastern meditation, and the prayer in a Brooklyn garden that changed everything: "Maybe you should talk to Mary Magdalene about that." [00:07:00] — Down the world's deepest rabbit hole. A trip to the Brooklyn Public Library, The Complete Idiot's Guide to Mary Magdalene, and a lay person's hunch: had the text of John's Gospel been changed? [00:10:00] — The discovery in Papyrus 66. Looking at the world's oldest copy of John (c. 200 AD), Elizabeth spots it in John 11: "the name Mary has been crossed out and changed to Martha." [00:13:00] — "You have to stop harassing these scholars. You have to go get a degree." When no one follows up on the 50-year-old findings, Elizabeth learns Greek, earns her MA, and publishes her thesis in the Harvard Theological Review, research that will now be reflected in the footnotes of the Nestle-Aland Greek New Testament, the critical text from which modern Bibles are translated. [00:18:00] — Why Martha matters. The Christological confession: in the Synoptics it's Peter who declares Jesus the Messiah, but in John it's a woman. If that woman is Mary, possibly Mary Magdalene, she becomes a direct counterpart to Peter. [00:19:00] — The mirror between John 11 and John 20. The parallels linking Lazarus's sister Mary and Mary Magdalene: the same question ("Where have you laid him?"), the rare word sudarion, a weeping Mary at a tomb watching someone she loves rise. [00:23:00] — How (and why) a second-century editor might have done it. One letter separates Maria from Martha in Greek and adding Martha would mean "no woman can be seen as having too much authority." [00:30:00] — How the research strengthened her faith. Elizabeth's stunning reflection on John 11:4 and the "wounded Word": "Just as Jesus's body was wounded... this text is wounded, and the Word itself carries its wounds in its body for us." [00:36:00] — What do we actually know about Mary Magdalene after the resurrection? Legends of the South of France, the red egg of Eastern Orthodox tradition, and what the fragmentary Gospel of Mary does (and doesn't) tell us. [00:40:00] — Mary Magdalene on screen. The Last Temptation of Christ, The Chosen, and how Pope Gregory's sermon in 591 AD, not Scripture, turned Mary Magdalene into a prostitute in the popular imagination. [00:45:00] — A Protestant at a Catholic university. Life at Villanova, ecumenical dialogue, and why Elizabeth says her work argues for the inspiration of Scripture: "John is bigger than we've given it credit for." [00:54:00] — Listening without agenda. Elizabeth's answer to this season's signature question: "The thing you most need to hear is hidden in the person who you immediately dismiss as other."   ABOUT DR. ELIZABETH SCHRADER POLCZER Dr. Elizabeth Schrader Polczer is Assistant Professor of New Testament at Villa... Chapters (00:00:00) - Jesus' Body is vulnerable to sin(00:00:29) - Religion to Reality: Mary Magdalene and the Gospel of John(00:01:43) - Interview with Elizabeth Schrader Pulitzer(00:02:45) - Mary Magdalene on Her Spiritual Journey(00:07:34) - The World's Oldest Copy of John's Gospel(00:13:47) - Getting my Master's thesis published in the New Testament(00:18:10) - John 11: Mary Magdalene Is the Christ?(00:23:02) - The interpolation of Martha in the Gospel of John(00:26:47) - The Textual Changes in the Gospels(00:30:43) - On the Controversy of John's Gospel(00:36:22) - What Do We Know About the Post-Reception Activity of Mary(00:40:44) - Mary Magdalene in The Crux(00:45:39) - An Episcopal scholar at Villanova speaks out about the Catholic University(00:48:51) - John Rawls on Interreligious Dialogue(00:52:58) - In the War of Words(00:54:18) - What Sacred Listening Is(00:57:04) - Religion to Reality

QUICK SUMMARY Shinto has no dogma, no scripture, and no conversion, so what is it? In this episode, we sit down with two Shinto priests. Rev. Ann Evans, one of the few Shinto priests in North America and a certified forest therapy guide, describes the moment a gravel walkway lined with towering cedars felt like home, chants a purification prayer for us, and explains why forest bathing is her “side door to Shinto.” Then Rev. Taishi Kato, heir to a 1,000-year-old shrine in Japan, reveals why the most important practice of a Shinto priest is sweeping leaves. IN THIS EPISODE, WE EXPLORE [00:00] Cold open: “It was an incredibly spiritual experience for me, and it just was home” [00:30] Dave and Fr. John introduce the Shinto episode, the traditional religion of Japan, with two priests as guests [01:30] Meet Rev. Ann Evans: Shinto priest, ANFT-certified forest therapy guide, and author of Shinto Norito: A Book of Prayers [03:00] Ann’s story: a Presbyterian upbringing in Pasadena, a Japanese exchange student, and the shrine ceremonies that moved her before she understood them [05:00] The walk that changed everything: approaching Tsubaki Grand Shrine through towering cedars — “it just was home” [06:30] Shinto and her Christian heritage: from “is this true?” to “it just is”,  no dogma, no scripture, no conversion [09:00] What is Shinto? The way of the kami, and why humans are innately pure and innately bright [11:30] Misogi: cold-water purification in waterfalls, rivers, and the ocean, and why cold condenses spiritual energy [14:00] Translating kami for the West: angels, saints, and loosening up our language [16:00] Fr. John’s observation: misogi sounds baptismal, ritual, archetypal, and what incense and cold water share [19:30] Life at the shrine: daily offerings of rice, water, sake, and salt; morning prayer; and ceremonies from baby blessings to business success [22:00] Ann chants the Harai no kotoba, the prayer of purification, in Japanese, then translates it [24:30] Why prayers stay in Japanese: kotodama, the belief that the sound of a word carries a soul [26:30] No evangelists here: from ancient Ko-Shinto in the forests to Shrine Shinto, and Rev. Yukitaka Yamamoto’s vision of bringing Shinto to America in 1987 [30:30] Miyazaki, Totoro, and the Kodama: what Ghibli films get right, and why Shinto must be experienced before it’s understood [32:30] The torii gate: crossing from the secular to the sacred, plus the shimenawa rope and zigzag shide [33:30] Heaven as “the high plain”: the unseen world, 50 days of prayer for the departed, and gratitude for ancestors who can still see us [36:00] Forest bathing (shinrin-yoku) explained: “the forest is the therapist, and the guide opens the door” [41:00] Why forest bathing isn’t a hike: covering an eighth of a mile in three hours, and what changes when you let yourself be led [43:00] Chapters of a spiritual life: how Ann’s practice has evolved from young children to young grandchildren [45:30] Listening without agenda: holding a space people are welcome to step into or not [46:30] Where to find Ann: Matsuri Foundation of Canada, and the true meaning of “matsuri”, two hands offering a branch in gratitude [48:30] Meet Rev. Taishi Kato: eldest son of a family that has served their 1,000-year-old shrine for generations [50:30] Why 70–80% of Japanese people visit a shrine on New Year’s Day [51:30] The most important practice of a Shinto priest: cleaning the shrine grounds [53:00] Why it would be easier to cut down the 400-year-old trees and why sweeping their leaves is the point [54:00] Dave’s closing reflection: there are no shortcuts in the spiritual journey, and what our traditions prepare us for<... Chapters (00:00:00) - Religion to Reality: Shinto(00:01:31) - Shinto Priest Ann Evans(00:03:10) - Tell Me How You Became Shinto(00:06:10) - Discovery of Shinto spirituality(00:08:51) - An introduction to Shinto in Japan(00:14:54) - Wonders of Nature: Shinto and Christianity(00:19:44) - According to the Shrine Priest, Life at the Shrine(00:22:14) - A Japanese Prayer of Purification(00:24:30) - How Japanese People Practice Shinto(00:26:05) - Learning to Chant in Japanese(00:26:38) - The journey of Shinto in America(00:29:40) - Do many people visit your shrine in Shinto?(00:31:05) - Do Shinto People Understand It?(00:32:46) - The Torii Gates, Shinto(00:35:54) - Forest Bathing(00:40:21) - Forest bathing in Shinto culture(00:42:37) - Forest Bathing(00:49:10) - Temple Priest Taishi Kato(00:50:12) - How often and frequently do people visit Shinto shrine?(00:54:31) - Shinto's Love of Nature(00:55:31) - Religion to Reality: Elizabeth Schrader