Forking Off

The sun is setting on our Forking Off journey—for now. We were compelled to start this podcast after living through so much of the chaos and cruelty taking over the US government in early 2025. With nearly 400,000 departures from federal service in 2025, we wanted the American people to learn more about who those employees were and what they left behind. We've been fortunate to share stories from former federal employees who worked across the federal government. The resulting 30 episodes are a time capsule of histories highlighting stories of these courageous former federal employees who ended up taking the fork in the road, often by choice, but sometimes by force.In this final episode, we decided to do things a little differently. Instead of having one guest, we checked in with four of our former guests to get their thoughts on the mid-term elections, immigration, and changes in domestic and international policies. Anticipatory ComplianceWe're only a week away from what could be one of the most pivotal mid-term elections ever. Former DOJ attorney Mike Romano and former FBI special agent Kayla Staph joined us for a discussion about the upcoming mid-terms. Mike pointed out the government is creating an environment of uncertainty and fear that risks driving the public into anticipatory compliance. Kayla reminded us that federal law prohibits armed federal law enforcement officers from being deployed to polling locations, unless repelling an armed enemy of the United States. The states are primarily responsible for administering elections and for ensuring security around voting sites.Chaos vs. StrategyWe joined up with former immigration judge Sarah Ellison Hernandez and former NGA senior geospatial intelligence analyst Jeremy Boss to discuss how immigration enforcement and changing domestic and international policies have impacted global relations. Jeremy explained how unpredictable domestic events and chaotic foreign policy present opportunities for foreign adversaries to exploit, increasing the risk of armed conflict abroad. Sarah articulated the need for everyday Americans to demand that Congress replace constant chaos with common strategic goals. It's on us to participate fully in our democracy by voting and demanding accountability.All Outta ForksWe're going to be shelving Forking Off for the time being while we focus our efforts on growing our business, Ravenwood Intelligence Cooperative. We're providing intelligence services, investigative strategy, and tradecraft expertise to the private sector. Check out our website and subscribe to our newsletter, The Sentry.Thank you for all of your love and support! And, as always... Thanks for Forking Off with us!For more information about this episode, ⁠⁠visit our website⁠⁠.If you enjoyed Forking Off with us, consider supporting us on ⁠Ko-fi⁠. To get notified when we release new work, follow us⁠⁠ on ⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠, ⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠, ⁠⁠Bluesky⁠⁠, ⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠, ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠, or wherever you get your podcasts.----------The views expressed in this episode are solely those of the individuals providing them and do not necessarily represent the views of the FBI, the DOJ, the United States, or any past or current employers.

Jeremy Boss found his way to the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA) almost by accident. After getting a master's degree in international relations, Jeremy sought out positions in the intelligence community with a desire to serve his country. After hearing about an NGA hiring event, Jeremy quickly researched the agency and submitted an application the day before event registration closed—and he got hired. Jeremy spent nearly fourteen years as a geospatial intelligence analyst fusing imagery with all-source intelligence to provide policymakers with ground truth. While at NGA, Jeremy observed leadership through a series of crises starting in 2012. He noticed these leaders did not rely on the subject matter experts who could quickly intuit situations and understand the nuances. Instead, most of these leaders tended to clamp down and "ride the horses until they die." This type of leadership culture produced an environment where riding an analyst to burnout was normal and accepted. The culture became "Well, that's just how it is. We're in crisis." It was a perpetual crisis mode which was completely unsustainable. Jeremy took stock of his situation. He could continue to live in constant crisis mode working 18-hour days every day, or he could prioritize himself and his family, which included two children he and his wife had recently adopted. Jeremy chose his family. After leaving NGA in January 2025, Jeremy founded Black Horizon with the goal of providing leaders with development opportunities in crisis management. Through Black Horizon, Jeremy runs unscripted geopolitical crisis scenarios where leaders from business, academia, and the defense sector navigate uncertainty to overcome stress before facing real-world crises. Teams play senior national-level decision makers, and every decision shapes what happens next.Highlights & Topics:East Asian Crises: A first-hand account of what it was like as an intelligence analyst supporting policymakers with crises in the South China SeaDangerous Lanes: The challenges of fighting an asymmetrical adversary with nation-state resources in the world's most dangerous shipping lanesComplex vs. Complicated: Why peacetime leaders fail during crisesChoose Your Own Adventure: Black Horizon uses unscripted, non-kinetic simulations to exercise leaders in crisis responseAdditional Resources:Black Horizon: Learn how Black Horizon combines realism, pressure, and reflection to turn complex challenges into lasting insightConnect with Jeremy: Connect with Jeremy on LinkedInLearn more about this episode on our website.If you enjoy Forking Off with us, consider supporting us on Ko-fi and follow us on Instagram, TikTok, Bluesky, LinkedIn, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.----------The views expressed in this episode are solely those of the individuals providing them and do not necessarily represent the views of the FBI, DOJ, NGA, DOD, the United States, or any past or current employers.

Stacey Young spent over 18 years at the Justice Department as an attorney; first in the Civil Division for 13 years, then in the Civil Rights Division for 5 more. Having founded the Gender Equality Network to make DOJ a better place for its employees in 2016, Stacey knew going into 2025 that DOJ employees would need support from outside. Shortly after inauguration, she resigned from her role at the Department to build Justice Connection—the direct support group DOJ employees needed.Stacey didn't need a crystal ball to know that DOJ employees would be targeted by the new administration: they said it out loud. Within the federal government, only DOJ had investigated the President for his previous unlawful actions, which made the need for Justice Connection obvious. Stacey issued her call to action as a guest essay in The New York Times, where she encouraged the public to support DOJ employees in their effort to keep the department on track. Later that month, Stacey answered the call.Highlights & TopicsMaking the Connection: Stacey's transition from an 18-year veteran DOJ attorney to non-profit founder working 90 hour weeks with a skeleton crewRetribution: Learn why FBI and DOJ employees were uniquely vulnerable to politically-motivated attacks and how Justice Connection established itself as a lifeline for those who are targetedDirect Support Networks: Explore how the Legal Network (250+ pro bono attorneys), Mental Health Support (100+ clinicians), Employment Support, and all of the other ways Justice Connection provides alumni with opportunities to continue supporting justiceFBI Support: The FBI Support Network is helping FBI employees draw their red lines and doing what FBI professionals can't do from the inside: speak out against attacks on the workforce and raise awareness about the importance of its workAdditional ResourcesJustice Connection: Connect with Stacey on LinkedIn, read more about her work, and support her mission at https://thejusticeconnection.orgFBI Support Network: FBI employees can reach out to the FBI Support Network at [email protected]. Do not use an FBI-owned device, an FBI network, or an FBI email address; never include sensitive information in an email subject line; and consider using a dedicated email address. Email headers are never encrypted!Learn more about this episode on our website.If you enjoy Forking Off with us, consider supporting us on Ko-fi, and follow us on Instagram, TikTok, Bluesky, LinkedIn, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.----------The views expressed in this episode are solely those of the individuals providing them and do not necessarily represent the views of the FBI, the DOJ, the United States, or any past or current employers.

Growing up in a small town in rural Northern California, Danielle Carnes longed to travel the world and make it a better place. She remembers visiting her grandma's house and seeing an old 1970s world map on the wall with pins showing all the places her grandfather had visited for work. She imagined traveling to new places and wondered about the different people she might meet.While studying international relations at UC Davis, Danielle traveled to Ghana for her study abroad, and it was life-changing. She chose Ghana because it was one of the only affordable programs for a kid from rural America. The people she met told her she didn't act like other Americans; she was different. That's when she realized less affluent people like her don't usually get these opportunities. This experience pushed Danielle to her work at USAID where she served as a Democracy, Human Rights, and Governance Officer in Guinea.After the 2024 elections, Danielle thought her work at USAID would continue as it had since the Obama administration. She knew there might be changes because of Project 2025 and DOGE, but Danielle was excited about DOGE. The thought of improving government efficiency was alluring. Danielle quickly realized government efficiency was not the goal. DOGE was a political revenge machine, and USAID was first on the chopping block.This realization was striking given her roots: Danielle grew up in a conservative, evangelical Christian household. She had been a Republican in her younger adulthood. She interned at the Heritage Foundation. But, Danielle is quick to point out, the party moved away from her, not the other way around.Since being forced out at USAID, Danielle has remained active in her community and continues to look for ways to continue public service. She attends the Quaker meeting in Washington, DC. She's a volunteer at the Bladensburg Volunteer Fire Department and is taking EMT training. Danielle is interested in political writing and engagement and has considered running for office.Highlights & Topics:Civic Roots: Hear how growing up in rural Northern California, a faith-based upbringing, and a life-changing study abroad experience in Ghana shaped Danielle's commitment to public service.Federal Service: Danielle's path from a Presidential Management Fellow (PMF) data analyst under the Obama administration through her time as a Democracy, Human Rights, and Governance Officer in Guinea and Sierra Leone.DOGE Illusion vs. Reality: Why Danielle initially welcomed efficiency efforts, only to realize DOGE was operating as a political tool aimed at dismantling USAID and eliminating critical foreign aid.Political Evolution: Danielle reflects on her conservative roots, interning at the Heritage Foundation, and watching the party shift away from the principles she supported. Community Service: How Danielle is continuing her mission of public service through her Quaker meeting, EMT training, and volunteering with the Bladensburg Volunteer Fire Department.Rebuilding Democracy: Danielle's perspective on what real constitutional and systemic reforms would be needed for former civil servants to ever return to government. Additional Resources:Former Feds & Friends: Connect with Danielle on LinkedIn and check out the Former Feds & Friends channel on YouTube.Learn more about this episode on our website.If you enjoy Forking Off with us, consider supporting us on Ko-fi, and follow us on Instagram, TikTok, Bluesky, LinkedIn, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.----------The views expressed in this episode are solely those of the individuals providing them and do not necessarily represent the views of the FBI, DOJ, USAID, the United States, or any past or current employers.

Jeffrey Sizemore spent over two decades serving the United States, first as a U.S. Navy Surface Warfare Officer and later as a civil servant at the State Department. As the Senior Advisor on Atrocity Prevention and Deputy Director in the Office of Security and Human Rights, Jeff helped operationalize the Elie Wiesel Genocide and Atrocities Prevention Act. He built comprehensive curriculums and traveled globally to train foreign service officers on how to mitigate the risks of mass violence, identify warning signs, and understand what post-conflict justice looks like.When the second Trump administration began in 2025, Jeff watched as assistance for human rights programs was frozen and Reductions-in-Force (RIFs) gutted critical conflict, stabilization, and global criminal justice bureaus. Though Jeff was spared from the RIFs, his office was eliminated, and he was pushed toward a role focused on wielding human rights sanctions against judges and the International Criminal Court. Unwilling to compromise his moral standing or act counter to the very international accountability he had championed, Jeff made the difficult decision to resign in September 2025.Now in his third act, Jeff has taken his expertise to Brisbane, Australia, serving as the Mary Wing-Ming Lee Senior Human Rights Research Fellow at the Asia Pacific Centre for the Responsibility to Protect at the University of Queensland. He is also a regular host on the YouTube channel Former Feds & Friends, using pop culture and movies like Zootopia 2 to make sense of today’s global challenges. He continues his lifelong mission by educating the next generation of diplomats who will eventually be needed to rebuild these critical global initiatives.Highlights & Topics:Two Decades of Service: Jeff's journey from a 20-year career in the U.S. Navy—deploying to the Middle East and Pacific—to finding his calling at the State DepartmentOperationalizing Prevention: How Jeff built an interagency curriculum to train foreign service officers on justice, human rights, and atrocity prevention under the Elie Wiesel ActTearing it Down to the Studs: A firsthand account of the 2025 RIFs that eliminated entire bureaus dedicated to conflict stabilization, global criminal justice, and securityCrossing the Moral Line: Why Jeff chose to resign rather than weaponize human rights sanctions against the international communityThe Third Act: Jeff's pivot to educating the next generation of diplomats in Australia and his advice for former feds looking to continue their mission at the state, local, or international NGO levelAdditional Resources:Former Feds & Friends: Watch Jeff and former guest Madeline Vellturo discuss democracy, stability, and atrocity prevention through the lens of pop cultureCivic Match / Work for America: A resource for former federal employees looking to transition their specialized skills and expertise to state and local governmentsLearn more about this episode on our website.If you enjoy Forking Off with us, consider supporting us on Ko-fi, and follow us on Instagram, TikTok, Bluesky, LinkedIn, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.----------The views expressed in this episode are solely those of the individuals providing them and do not necessarily represent the views of the FBI, the DOJ, the State Department, the United States, or any past or current employers.