The Pivot

DESCRIPTIONWhen Andrew Osenga sits down with the guys from the iconic Christian rock band PFR (Joel Hanson, Patrick Andrew, and Mark Nash), it’s, in the band’s words, the first podcast they’ve ever done. The conversation starts with how the group met each other at a Minnesota summer camp and started the band, moves through a GRAMMY nomination for their debut record, a forced name change, and four records before the three of them shut the band down on their own terms. They talk about a 2001 comeback record that lost its label just as it came out, a bus that went off the road during the promo tour and a 40-city run that was canceled. Then they skip ahead to a stretch of about ten years when the three of them were never in the same place, and how a Thanksgiving 2021 text from Patrick led to a meetup at a cabin in Wisconsin. A conversation with a rabbi at Patrick’s house in Arizona, about an archery term, later helped shape the title of their new album, “Target and the Arrow.”  Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I gave up having to be right and being certain a handful of years ago. I held on to that into my 50s, but I started to realize I’m holding on to a certainty that I’m not completely certain of. So I’m kind of lying to myself.” - Joel Hanson“Twenty-five years ago, we would have been the ones answering a lot of questions. Now we’re asking a lot more questions.” - Patrick Andrew“We were given a microphone and lights and a ‘go-tell-people-how-to-live.’ And that’s a huge responsibility for guys who are literally so young in any of this and just trying to figure it out.” - Joel Hanson“The environment I spent a lot of years in, if you’re asking questions, you’re the problem.” - Joel Hanson“None of us have the time we think we have to maybe do the thing. So either get ruthless about what you’re not gonna do so that you can go after that thing, or don’t.” - Joel Hanson, recounting what his friend Alan told them“It’s almost like the music that we’ve always created was just waiting for us to find each other again.” - Joel Hanson“When we’re around each other for any length of time, songs just start trying to poke out from the ground.” - Joel Hanson“This word that we’ve translated as sin, it’s like an archery term. It’s literally like missing the mark, like your trajectory isn’t right. And repentance is turn, redirect, point yourself in the trajectory that will bring life.” - Joel Hanson, recounting Alan’s teaching“We were super young. We didn’t know we could ask for things or say no.” - Mark Nash“To have male friends that I know see me and love me and are for me. And we don’t have to think exactly like each other. We don’t have to have any hive mind.” - Joel Hanson Links, Products, and Resources Mentioned:“Target and the Arrow,” the band’s new album. Earlier PFR records: “Great Lengths,” “Them,” “Disappear”The Roaring Lambs compilation“The Bookhouse Recordings”Albums recorded at Pachyderm: Nirvana’s In Utero, Live’s Throwing Copper, the Breeders’ Last Splash, and the Beavis and Butt-Head movie soundtrack.The film “That Thing You Do!”Camp ShamineauLifeWay bookstores*Watch this interview on Andrew’s YouTube channel!  *All episode music is by Andrew Osenga.  Guest’s Links: PFR’s YouTubePFR’s Instagram PFR’s Bandcamp  Connect with Andrew: WebsiteYouTubeSubstackSpotifyFacebookInstagramHow to Remember by Andrew OsengaHold the Light by Andrew OsengaThe Quiet Hours Book Series by Andrew OsengaAcoustic Hymns by Andrew Osenga *The Pivot is produced in conjunction with Four Eyes Media.

Description: Nine years and about 150 episodes after Andrew Peterson was one of Andrew Osenga's very first guests, the two catch up on everything in between — starting with what it's like to watch a story you wrote in your own head become a TV show and then a graphic novel in other people's hands. He talks about a fan comment that pushed him to publicly clarify he hadn't quietly stepped away from touring, and tells the story of spending three years teaching himself a mandolin piece by ear — only to discover the person who wrote it was twelve years old at the time. From there, the conversation winds through an 80-mile walk in England that ends by crossing tidal sand to Holy Island, ten minutes spent staring at a maple tree, and a private sketchbook he has no intention of ever selling — all circling one idea: that curiosity, not mastery, might be the whole point. Thought-Provoking Quotes: "As a songwriter, if you hear somebody cover your song, for the most part you're thrilled that anybody would care enough to like your song enough to put their own spin on it. But it's also really fun to see somebody else's expression of something that you made." - Andrew Peterson"Somewhere between the four Gospels is the real Jesus — each Gospel writer is seeing different aspects of him. So somewhere in the middle of all of this is the man himself." - Andrew Peterson"I need to be okay with not being great at mandolin. I'm gonna move on to the next thing." - Andrew Peterson"Curiosity, I think, leads to delight. It doesn't lead to mastery — it leads to delight. And delight is a very biblical idea." - Andrew Peterson"This is my reason to be outside for an hour and to be still and to look at a tree, without asking anything of it. I'm not trying to write a lyric. I'm not trying to come up with some brilliant idea. I'm just admiring and enjoying this thing that God made." - Andrew Peterson"It's great if a lot of people buy your book or listen to your music, but — the Lord first, and after Him — if you're writing for a certain person or group of people, then you've done your work: you've loved your neighbor well and loved your Lord." - Andrew Peterson Links, Products, and Resources Mentioned:Theo of Golden by Allen LeviThe Terrible Speed of Mercy: A Spiritual Biography of Flannery O'Connor by Jonathan Rogers On the Edge of the Dark Sea of Darkness: The Graphic Novel: The Wingfeather Saga, Book 1 adapted by Matt Mikalatos Behold the Lamb of God — Andrew Peterson's annual Christmas album and tourThe Wingfeather Saga animated series adapted from Andrew Peterson's book series, made with Chris WallWhat Went Wrong — a podcast about how difficult it is to make a movie, "let alone a good one, let alone a classic"*Watch this interview on Andrew’s YouTube channel!  *All episode music is by Andrew Osenga.  Guest’s Links: Official WebsiteFacebookInstagramYouTubeX  Connect with Andrew: WebsiteYouTubeSubstackSpotifyFacebookInstagramHow to Remember by Andrew OsengaHold the Light by Andrew Osenga *The Pivot is produced in conjunction with Four Eyes Media.

Description: Sixteen years ago, Jonathan Rogers finished the novel he was proudest of — and watched it fail so completely that it never made it onto a single bookstore shelf. In this conversation with Andrew Osenga, Jonathan revisits that heartbreak as he re-releases The Charlatan's Boy with a new cover and new illustrations, and traces how the experience forced him to ask an uncomfortable question: why did he need strangers he'd never meet to tell him he mattered? That reckoning eventually pulled him out of a lonely writing life and into founding The Habit, a community built on the idea that writers don't need to compete to do good work — they just need someone in their corner. Thought-Provoking Quotes: "Why is it so important to me that people I don't know admire me? Why do I need to be loved by people I can't love back?" - Jonathan Rogers  "It's the loneliest thing in the world when the book comes out and the world doesn't stop and notice."  - Jonathan Rogers  "You don't have to prove yourself. You don't have to make a name for yourself. You've got a name and you've got an identity."  - Jonathan Rogers  "I'm not nearly as afraid of failure as I used to be."  - Jonathan Rogers  “Writing is a good thing to do whether you get published or not” - Jonathan Rogers Links, Products, and Resources Mentioned:The Charlatan's Boy by Jonathan RogersThe Wilderking Trilogy by Jonathan Rogers The Habit — Jonathan's membership community/organization for writers The Habit's "Focus Retreat"  *Watch this interview on Andrew’s YouTube channel!  *All episode music is by Andrew Osenga.  Guest’s Links: The HabitFacebookInstagramX Connect with Andrew: WebsiteYouTubeSubstackSpotifyFacebookInstagramHow to Remember by Andrew OsengaHold the Light by Andrew Osenga *The Pivot is produced in conjunction with Four Eyes Media.

Description:  Doug McKelvey is the author of “Every Moment Holy” a bestselling series of prayer books, and his newest volume, “Rites of Passage”, is written for the leap into adulthood. Writing it meant reliving a pattern he never once recognized in himself as a young man: getting close to someone, whether a friendship or a girlfriend, and then — almost on a dime — deciding he was done, with no explanation even to himself. But the real turn in this conversation comes when Douglas describes the year he wrote his very first prayer book; a year of financial trouble, strained friendships, and one bad break after another. The day before his manuscript was due, an editor asked him a simple question — did he think what he was going through was spiritual, a form of resistance — and something clicked into place so obviously that he burst into tears. He'd spent that entire year never once considering it. That shift in perspective has stuck with him ever since, shaping how he now thinks about the real cost paid by pastors, by missionary doctors he's met who lose a patient almost every week for lack of basic supplies, and by anyone doing work that matters.    Thought-Provoking Quotes:  "Certainly through the two and a quarter years process of writing the prayers for this book, I had to wade through cringe-inducing memories of mistakes that I made... I was not very good at loving other people, even maintaining friendships." - Doug McKelvey   "We are the mold. God has shaped us through our life experiences and the way he has directed and redeemed those things, so that when that season of life comes along... it takes on the shape of the way God has prepared us uniquely." - Doug McKelvey   "That grief... does tender the heart and creates the space to say, okay, I've made a lot of mistakes, but I can bring these — even these mistakes and these failures — now that I recognize them, to you, God." - Doug McKelvey   Andrew’s Prayer for Listeners   Our dear Lord,  You know the plans You’ve made for each of us,  The works You have for us to do,  Give us courage when the world feels against us,  and the enemy seems all around us, and give us patience while the road is long and our efforts so often feel wasted,  Help us remember the deepest reality: That You are the author and perfecter of whatever faith we hold, For You, Lord, are good and Your mercy is forever.   Links, Products, and Resources Mentioned: Every Moment Holy: Rites of Passage by Douglas McKelvey Every Moment Holy: Prayer Songs Every Moment Holy: The Live Experience  Anchor Hymns The Rabbit Room   *Watch this interview on Andrew’s YouTube channel!   *All episode music is by Andrew Osenga.    Guest’s Links:  Doug McKelvey’s Website Doug McKelvey’s Facebook Doug McKelvey’s Instagram   Connect with Andrew:  Website YouTube Substack Spotify Facebook Instagram How to Remember by Andrew Osenga Hold the Light by Andrew Osenga   *The Pivot is produced in conjunction with Four Eyes Media.  

Description:  This episode with Sally Lloyd-Jones originally aired on November 21, 2017, and it's one of Andrew's favorite conversations from the show. Sally spent years working as an editor for other people's books, certain that writing her own wasn't really an option — until, in her forties, everything changed. She and Andrew talk about the fear that kept her editing instead of writing, the moment she finally decided to find out if she could do it, and how that decision eventually led to books like The Jesus Storybook Bible, which has since sold millions of copies.    Thought-Provoking Quotes:  “The idea was the seed. I already have the idea, and it’s up to God what the harvest is, but my job is to show up.” - Sally Lloyd-Jones “We judge our stories halfway through our story... you never judge a novel halfway through a novel. It’s only in looking back that you can see the pattern.” - Sally Lloyd-Jones “If you make it excellent, it will reach everyone. If you don’t make it excellent, you won’t, because that’s just how it works—excellence removes all the barriers.” - Sally Lloyd-Jones “If you trust what makes you laugh or what moves you, that’s what you have to write... you’ll be original without trying, because you’ll be you.” - Sally Lloyd-Jones “Find the thing that brings you alive, because the world needs someone who’s come alive.” - Sally Lloyd-Jones “You break through the author barrier and you get out of the way, and it becomes about the story.” - Sally Lloyd-Jones   Links, Products, and Resources Mentioned: The Jesus Storybook Bible by Sally Lloyd-Jones Thoughts to Make Your Heart Sing by Sally Lloyd-Jones Baby Wren and the Great Gift by Sally Lloyd-Jones How to Be a Baby, by Me, the Big Sister by Sally Lloyd-Jones His Royal Highness, King Baby: A Terrible True Story by Sally Lloyd-Jones Handbag Friends by Sally Lloyd-Jones *Watch this interview on Andrew’s YouTube channel!   *All episode music is by Andrew Osenga.    Guest’s Links:  Sally Lloyd Jones’ website Sally Lloyd Jones’ YouTube Sally Lloyd Jones’ Facebook Sally Lloyd Jones’ Instagram   Connect with Andrew:  Website YouTube Substack Spotify Facebook Instagram How to Remember by Andrew Osenga Hold the Light by Andrew Osenga *The Pivot is produced in conjunction with Four Eyes Media.