The Leadership Podcast

Sean Conley, Chief Learning Officer for Baker Hughes, discusses the importance of creating a people-first culture while still achieving results for your business. Sean talks about the importance of creating an environment where people want to learn and change their behavior through repetition and trial-and-error. He also touches on the challenges of our educational system and the need to create white space in calendars for growth and development amidst busy schedules. Join us as we explore the insights shared by Sean on the importance of investing in learners, fostering inclusion, and creating a culture of appreciation and effective communication. https://bit.ly/TLP-358 Key Takeaways [01:02] Sean Conley, shares his 40 years of experience in learning and development, and he still finds himself passionate about what he does every day. He believes that this passion is crucial in helping others bring out the best in themselves and growing as a leader. [05:44] Sean discusses the importance of creating a learning environment where employees are given the choice to opt-in rather than being forced to participate in learning and development activities. He also discusses the importance of marketing and enticing employees to want to learn, rather than trying to push them into it. [13:17] Sean encouraged people to pursue their interests and passions using the many available resources for learning, rather than just focusing on memorizing information. Behavior change should be the focus of learning. [15:49] Create white space for personal growth & development, focus on changing individual behavior rather than the whole organization, help people understand various ways to learn, it's about time focus not just management, recharge when needed, encourage learners to create their own white space. [18:11] Sean believes investing in frontline leaders is key for organizational success, setting habits and behaviors that follow them. Senior management should focus on developing talent rather than learning new skills, creating an ecosystem for growth and development and leaving a legacy by developing successors. [20:45] Sean talks about how an organization can't grow if its people can't grow. Growth opportunities should be given when the learners are ready. It's important to focus on behavior change and application of learning to shape an organization. [24:45] Sean answers the question, "What are we getting right and what are we getting not so right about inclusion?". While there is progress in discussing inclusion in organizations, it's important to not only include those who are present but also consider who is not in the room and ensure everyone has a voice and is part of the dialogue. [26:42] Sean discusses the importance of diversity of the mind in the workplace and how learning is a key part of shaping the culture of an organization. Different individuals have different learning styles and as such, learning programs need to be designed to cater to different types of learners. [30:59] Sean agrees that leaders should start with ensuring that everyone in the tribe feels appreciated and valued for their contribution before addressing issues of belonging and inclusion. Sean also acknowledges the challenge of being a busy leader but sees it as a great reminder to prioritize appreciation in both business and personal life [35:19] Sean admits to still working on improving his communication skills and the art of telling, asking, and listening. He stresses the need to ask better questions and not simply react, but to listen intently to pull more information out. This highlights the idea that communication is an ongoing process that requires continuous improvement. [36:46] When is it okay to break the rules?According to Sean, "Rules are just made up by people and they're made up at a time. So sometimes (it's not really) I won't say break(ing) the rules, but we get to question them sometimes." [40:41] Closing quote: And remember, "He who learns but does not think is lost. He who thinks but does not learn is in great danger." - Confucius Quotable Quotes "By investing in yourself and by growing yourself, you actually show up better for your customers." "Learning comes with behavior change." "Getting your brain going and learning something is better than none." "It's not time management, it's time focus." "Learning environment is part of how you shape a culture in an organization." "Be courageous. It's the only place left uncrowded." - Anita Roddick Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by | www.darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC | www.raftiadvisors.com Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | selfreliantleadership.com Sean Conley on LinkedIn | www.linkedin.com/in/conleyglobal Baker Hughes Website | www.bakerhughes.com/ Baker Hughes on LinkedIn | www.linkedin.com/company/bakerhughes Baker Hughes on Twitter | @bakerhughesco

Stephen Drum, retired Navy SEAL master chief and author of "Life on the X: A Navy SEAL's Guide to Meeting Any Challenge with Courage, Confidence, and Readiness", discusses the values and commitments necessary for effective leadership. This is Steve's second time as a guest on The Leadership Podcast, and in this episode he discusses the importance of being authentic in one's values and purpose along with the significance of focusing on the basics to achieve success. The use of After Action Reviews (AARs) is also highlighted as a way to continuously improve performance by identifying opportunities for growth. Join us as we dive deeper into this conversation about leadership, feedback, and the application of military principles to business leadership. Key Takeaways [04:26] Stephen Drum talks about the meaning behind the title of his book "Life on the X." The X represents the critical point of execution on a combat mission, the most dangerous and difficult point. By preparing and training for this point, success can be achieved in less dangerous situations. [06:38] The first section of the book discusses commitment, values, purpose, attributes, and character. [09:53] Stephen believes leaders need to focus on the basics, being crystal clear on the desired end state and checking for comprehension. They caution against getting too caught up in technology and processes before identifying the necessary resources for a project or endeavor. [12:40] Stephen believes that brilliant basics consist of giving resources, setting clear expectations and accountability, and coaching depending on an individual's skills and experience. He also emphasizes the importance of contingency planning and emotional control. [24:48] Stephen explains that the concept of After Action Reviews (AARs) depends on the position and organization, but some clients gravitate towards it while others are focused on the production and don't have time. Steve suggests making the process efficient and identifying opportunities to leverage the experience. Steve finds that clients embrace this approach. [27:20] During a meeting with a client, Stephen realized the client's note-taking gave him confidence they would follow through on the discussed actions. He believes taking notes is important in memorializing information and it helps people remember and take things seriously. [30:30] Stephen also talks about the challenges of giving effective feedback. Research shows that feedback is often not as effective as we think because people tend to get defensive and blame others or misremember. As a leader, it's important to give future-focused, succinct feedback that only addresses things that can be changed. [34:16] Stephen explains feedback in the military serves different purposes, such as accountability and documentation, but can also be used to replicate the stress of combat. The military also practices intrusive leadership, which involves getting into people's personal lives to provide support and resources. [38:14] Stephen reflects on how in special operations, there are peaks and troughs, whereas in the business world, it's go time all the time, and without self-care, burnout is inevitable. [40:55] People tend to push too hard and can't keep up that pace. Separating work and family can be healthy for some, but for others, it's better to have a more intense focus on work or other activities. In the military, there's no time off during a deployment, and even holidays are not completely free of work. In the business world, it's important to find ways to foster creativity and give employees a break from the grind of their daily work. [42:29] Identify their next big moment or key opportunity and develop an architecture for success, which aligns with the theme of his book. [43:36] Closing quote: Remember, "You will never do anything in this world without courage. It is the greatest quality of the mind, next to honor. " — Aristotle Quotable Quotes "As the leader, you have to be crystal clear on the desired end state." "We sometimes give into or fall prey to the allure of technology or certain sexy processes." "You're engaging more parts of your brain when you want to memorize something." "If it's serious and important enough, you're going to take the time to put pen to paper." "Feedback is not nearly as effective as you think it is, or that you need it to be." "If you're receiving feedback and it basically could be construed as negative or overly constructive, you're going to get defensive." "Identify what your next big moment or key opportunity is and figure out how you're going to develop the architecture for success." "A lot of people want to work from home, but for many people, it's healthy to have a separation, to go to work and be focused on that and then come home and focus just on that." "The mind, body, soul is critical. The body piece, rest, nutrition, physical activity, how that contributes to emotions and cognitive ability." Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by | www.darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC | www.raftiadvisors.com Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | selfreliantleadership.com Stephen Drum | stephendrum.com Stephen Drum on LinkedIn | Stephen Drum Stephen Drum on Facebook | www.facebook.com/stephen.drum.967 Stephen Drum on Instagram | @stephen.drum "5 Strategies to infuse D&I into Your Organization," HBR

With his unique brand of edgy leadership, Dr. Todd Dewett is one of the most in-demand keynote speakers in the world, an internationally sought-after expert, a four-time TEDx speaker, and has been quoted in TIME, The New York Times, Bloomberg, Business Week, Forbes, CNN, and many more outlets. He is the author of "Dancing With Monsters, a Tale About Leadership, Success, and Overcoming Fears." In this interview, Todd talks about the challenges of work including: facing our fears to build confidence; the generational challenges, boundaries, and when quitting should be considered. Listen in to hear how to deal with your mistakes, how to find "fit," and the importance of outside counsel. https://bit.ly/TLP-356 Key Takeaways [1:56] Todd's bio. (See at the end of the show notes.) Todd comes to The Leadership Podcast through a mutual friend, Dean Karrel; both are phenomenal LinkedIn Learning instructors. Todd and Jan share a publisher. [3:29] Todd is a proud father of two; a sophomore in high school and a sophomore in college. They're the best thing he's ever done. Todd and his wife are besties and business partners. She is going through a battle with cancer and they don't know what's going to happen. Todd strives to understand it and be useful to her as she tries to beat this thing. [5:25] Todd likes most to speak about universal experiences; to take a thing we all know and give it a fresh perspective. Wanting to quit is a universal experience. Is it bad or good? It depends. Giving up too easily is a problem for some people. But quitting isn't simply bad. It can be strategically very useful. If something is not working out, it may be time to stop investing in it to invest in something better. [7:58] If fear is common at work it may be due to a poor culture or poor managers. But even in great work cultures, fear of what to say and how to act in a new situation is wired into us. We want to please people and be liked. Fear at work is an important topic to explore. Work is affecting people's physical and mental health in ways that are not productive. We need to learn how to mitigate the experience of fear. [10:33] Fear can manifest as indecision. We walk through a large system of interlocking expectations from ourselves, our parents, our partners, our peers, our supervisors, others at work, and our family. We don't always know how to navigate it successfully. Sometimes it's indecision, sometimes it's rash poor decision-making, and sometimes it's overreaching. [11:03] What is the reasonable, measured way to deal with that normal anxiety we feel in the middle of all those expectations? Good coaching and some thought will get you through that. The real problem is people who haven't done the work to narrow down the possibilities and don't know what their career goal is at all so they defer the decision to someone else. [12:31] Todd delivered a TEDx talk at Texas A&M, long after his Ph.D. there. It was based on his experiences as an employee and a professor, that lots of people love to talk about creativity and innovation but the gap between the concepts and the practice of embracing them is enormous. When people innovate or tweak a process, they receive pushback and criticism. Change may be seen as a threat. [14:28] Confidence is both a personality trait and a skill that can be built over time. Todd recommends the repetition of engaging these risks and learning from them in an environment that is supportive of innovation. People like Todd have a job because much of what people do doesn't naturally mesh with their environments. They don't fit without some effort. [16:21] The pandemic accelerated thinking about these issues and it came at a time of a generational shift we've never seen. There are five generations represented in the workforce. The definition of success is slowly shifting toward what makes the employee happy and find purpose, more than what others think. [16:49] The Great Resignation and Quiet Quitting seem to support that shift. Millennials and Zs do have different professional values in terms of wanting to be a partner and be heard rather than being subordinate and following orders. They want more leisure but also want to feel more purpose than earlier generations. People respond fantastically well when they believe they are heard. [18:26] The key to "fit" is objectively getting the skills that you need to do the work you want to do, and finding people that you enjoy, no matter the thing you're working on. The skills and the people both feed into your experience of "fit." [19:36] Todd agrees that there is both a corporate responsibility and a personal responsibility to provide meaning to work. He says, "Never believe the simple narrative." Millennials and Zs find it shocking that when starting a job, it is important to learn the norms, the rules, the expectations, and what it takes to be a top performer there, before demanding to be heard. It goes both ways. [22:19] People are aging out of the labor force faster than workers are entering it. Jobs have changed over the last 30 years. We lost many jobs and replaced them with service jobs. It may be harder to find purpose and alignment with a low-paying service job than it did with a high-paying manufacturing job. [23:54] No one's perfect all the time. We have moods, moments, and external factors that impact us. Even on our best days, we're imperfect. One of the themes in Dancing with Monsters is that "You're wonderfully imperfect but still perfectly capable of doing amazing things." Talk about it more than less. It leads to empathy, authenticity, and vulnerability. [24:21] The world of our fathers and grandfathers placed an uncrossable line between the personal and professional. There are some holes in the wall now, but it hasn't come down. Humans want to have authentic human connections that are meaningfully fulfilling. But instead, we put on a polished, professional version of ourselves that we hope will keep us out of trouble and maybe even get us ahead. [25:04] You don't have to hide. Most people through conversation can make teams meaningfully better. We need to be validated a little more, understood a little more, and be better listeners. We learn that everybody's imperfect, and that's OK. The key to great teams isn't finding the best talent, but talent is still required. The key is chemistry and getting the best joint performance out of the people that you do have. [26:45] Leaders are sometimes going to go too far. It's normal. What do they do to show vulnerability? Don't run from it. Own that. If apologies or statements are needed, make them sooner than later. But first, assume you do not see yourself and the situation perfectly. Find people who have insights into what just happened and ask them for their insights. They see you differently than you see yourself. [27:25] Take time to think about a path forward for using the error to make yourself better. Todd shares a story of embarrassing himself as a young professional speaker by bombing onstage in front of thousands of people. He used it as an opportunity to check his emotions, step back, examine the things he did wrong, and make a plan to fix them and not repeat the same mistakes. He used it to make himself better. [29:02] Writing a monster story is unusual in the leadership space. It came from a mistake! Two years ago, for the third time, Todd wrote a novel, and "It was not good." He is done trying to scratch that itch! The story involved a vampire in an office and he still loved the idea. After thinking about Patrick Lencioni and others, Todd got excited about a fable and started writing his book. Six hours later, he had the first draft. [30:49] Whatever your generation may be, the "more" that you search should be defined by you, whether it's just about work, or larger issues in life, Todd still says, "More is always possible." [32:32] Millennials and Zs have seen all kinds of financial adversity. No one understands success without understanding failure. Todd says he had so many big, fat, ugly failures in his career, it's hilarious! If you have one or two moderate successes people think good things about you. It's the halo effect. Todd loves talking about failures. [35:02] Leaders want to be aspirational but sometimes don't live the values. The gap between rhetoric and reality causes a massive cultural problem in organizations. Todd promotes more realism with high levels of candor and kindness. When employees make mistakes, discuss the mistakes with kindness and candor and admit your own mistakes. With kindness and candor, you can deal with reality a lot better. [37:27] We're not great at understanding ourselves or others as much as we think we are. Outside counsel is essential in any success story, for sure! Growth starts when you leave your comfort zone. That's just a truism. Allow your boss and allow yourself to push yourself, into areas that make you a little uncomfortable. That's where growth comes from. [38:49] Todd's closing thoughts: "Having what it takes to become an effective leader and finding success in your career, is not about what you're born with, it's about the skills that you build. And with the right effort and the right people around you, any of us can find those things and build those things. It is within our reach. I love sharing that with people." [39:37] Closing quote: Remember, "I have learned over the years that when one's mind is made up, this diminishes fear; knowing what must be done does away with fear." — Rosa Parks Quotable Quotes "Proud father of two; I've got a sophomore in high school and a sophomore in college and they're the best thing I've ever done, no matter how much I might talk about a book or a course." "Lots of people, if not everyone, love to talk about creativity and innovation but the gap between the allure of those concepts and the practice of embracing them is enormous beyond words!" "We tend to see people respond … tremendously well when they belie

Vitaliy Katsenelson is the CEO and Chief Investment Officer of IMA and the author of three books. His most recent book is "Soul in the Game: The Art of a Meaningful Life." Vitaliy was born in Murmansk, Russia, and immigrated to the United States with his family in 1991. In this interview, Vitaliy contrasts his experience growing up in the Soviet Union with his experience in the United States, and how different his mindset was in each place. He also discusses how Stoic philosophy has been very helpful. He discusses how his essay about Tchaikovsky aims to help others who may be struggling with creativity. Listen in for a vibrant discussion on intention, communication, and vulnerability. https://bit.ly/TLP-355 Key Takeaways [1:53] Vitaliy's bio. (See at the end of the show notes.) [2:22] Vitaliy loves investing, writing, classical music, and spending time with his family, Vitaliy's father is a fantastic artist and Vitaliy has a small gallery of his work. [3:49] How Vitaliy sees the differences between Murmansk, Russia, and Denver, Colorado. Denver has lots of sunshine. In the winter, Murmansk has a few minutes of sunshine a day. When Vitaliy lived there, it was Soviet Russia. Freedom of speech and the free market did not exist in Russia. All businesses were owned by the government. Here we have an abundance of food and a lack of scarcity. [6:56] Vitaliy shares thoughts on how Russians and Americans communicate. He read How to Win Friends and Influence People when he was 18 in Russia. He hated the book and felt it was teaching him how to be fake. He read it again 20 years later and was shocked by how brilliant it is. He is re-reading it with his 17-year-old daughter and she loves it. She has an American mindset. [8:06] When Vitaliy came to the U.S. he found that Americans are very indirect and smile all the time, contrasted with Russians who are sometimes painfully direct. Vitaly was fired from his first American job. The man firing him was smiling at him, which was a confusing signal. Vitaly fine-tuned himself to a balance between directness and indirectness. He tries not to criticize people so his message is clearly received. [9:10] If Vitaliy has a criticism, he first tries to make sure to tell the person positive things. Then he structures the criticism as constructive feedback. He learned that from Dale Carnegie and living in the U.S. for 30 years. Vitaliy says if he had continued to communicate in the Soviet Russian style, he could not have achieved anything in the U.S. [10:43] Vitaliy's intentionality comes from the conscious choice to be mindful. To have a work/life balance you just have to be mindful about having the balance. Vitaliy knew he wanted to be a good father to his children. He made a mindful choice to spend more time with his children. He chooses to drive his children to school before going to work on a busy day. [12:38] Vitaliy has a value to be a good father. To live up to the value he has to be mindful about being with his children. If he just went on autopilot, he would just default to the easiest things to do which for him is working 10-hour and 12-hour days. To be mindful, he stops after eight hours. When he gets home and has dinner with his kids, he's not looking at his phone. He's present with them, giving them attention. [14:26] To live a meaningful life, figure out exactly what you value and spend your time according to your values. [15:32] Vitaliy sees value in simplicity. [16:50] As Vitaliy was working on the last chapter of his book, he put it on pause to study and write on Stoicism. He studied Epictetus, Marcus Aurelius, and Seneca. Epictetus taught a framework that some things are up to you and some things aren't. What is up to you are your values and how you behave. Everything else is external and is not up to you. Don't try to control what is out of your control. [19:03] Vitaliy's 17-year-old daughter just got her first job at a coffee shop. She finds a co-worker annoying. Vitaliy asked her if she expected every co-worker to be perfect. It's not up to you how other people are. Vitaliy finds this framework to be simple and elegant; if you embrace the Stoic philosophy it will reduce the volatility and negativity in your life. [20:27] When he learned Stoic philosophy, Vtaliy realized he had made choices in the past unconsciously that were aligned with Stoic philosophy. Adopting Stoic philosophy intentionally has changed his life. He wrote that section of the book as much for himself as for the reader. [21:51] Every three to four months, Vitaliy sends his clients a 30-page letter in a story-telling format. As an experiment, once he sent the letter in a condensed format of brief bullet points. Eighty percent of his clients preferred the long letter. It was easier for them to read in stories than in bullet points. [23:33] You want to be very careful on the receiving side of storytelling and people who are terrific speakers. They appeal to your emotions. Stoics break down the message to its bare bones, to the bullet points. There is a conflict between Stoics and Sophists. Vitaliy acknowledges he is a Sophist in storytelling. At the same time, his values are Stoic. Sophists hijack the message and they may not have good values. [24:56] When Vitaliy encounters terrific communicators, he is very cautious to make sure the way they communicate does not impact his decision-making. [26:17] Music is an incredibly important part of Vitaliy's life. He has written essays on the music that was important to him at any year of his life. Vitaly gets up every day at 4:30 or 5:00 and writes for two hours while listening to classical music in his headphones. Those two hours every day are very special to Vitaliy. Listening to classical music while he writes has helped his creativity tremendously. [28:07] Vitaliy's kids made him appreciate chess. It's one of the few games he likes playing with them. His daughter invited him to play after watching The Queen's Gambit. After a game, they review the moves, trying to find the solution for the best move possible at any point. It makes an intellectually honest discussion. Jan notes it's like a military after-action review (AAR). Both become better players. [30:34] Writing music is a very creative activity. When you listen to classical music, think about how difficult it was for the composer to write it. Tchaikovsky left behind many letters to his brother and his friends. His letters describe how he struggled to compose his music. Vitaliy's book came about because he had been writing an essay about one of Tchaikovsky's pieces of music. [31:45] Vitaliy read Tchaikovsky's letters and realized that the suffering the composer went through was so similar to the suffering Vitaliy goes through as a writer. He wrote an essay comparing the struggles of Tchaikovsky to the struggles a creative writer goes through. [32:11] When Vitaliy finished the essay, he realized other struggling writers could be helped by reading it. Over the years, he had written many essays that could help others. So he put them together in a book. [32:45] When you study the lives of composers, you listen to music very differently. You feel the pain they felt as they were writing. You realize that you will have some very difficult times creating, and as long as you love writing, pain is just part of the journey. The lives of the composers made Vitaliy appreciate classical music so much more. There is an incredible amount of hard work, pain, and struggle in creativity. [34:52] Vitaliy finds that parenting and leadership have parallels. But leadership mistakes don't haunt you for the rest of your life! Vitality exposes his kids to new things all the time. They watch YouTube videos on various subjects. He introduces them to new books all the time. They discuss different topics and he doesn't talk down to them. He is interested to know what they think. [35:56] As a parent and as a leader, it's important to be vulnerable. You admit that you don't have all the answers. When you communicate, spend most of the time in the scientist mode. Whatever you're looking at is a theory. You are trying to discover truth. [36:59] When you make a mistake you admit it. Then your employees will be more comfortable admitting they made mistakes as well. [37:45] Vitaliy shares a link where you can hear his podcasts and read his articles. [38:23] Closing quote: Remember, "Do not act as if you had 10,000 years to throw away. Death stands at your elbow. Be good for something while you live and it is in your power." — Marcus Aurelius Quotable Quotes "If you insult a person first and then you give them a message, that message will never arrive." "My daughter and I are reading [How to Win Friends and Influence People] together … and she loves the book!" "Being around your kids while you are reading Financial Times on your iPhone is not being around your kids. Attention is a currency of time. So it's when I give them that attention, when I'm present, that's very, very important." "There is so much value in simplicity." "If you waste your energy trying to control things that are not up to you, you're going to have one miserable life. You're going to have this emotional rollercoaster of being upset." "I would argue that if you embraced Stoic philosophy, what it does, it would just reduce the volatility; it would reduce negativity in your life. And by reducing negativity, it's going to make your life calmer; more peaceful." "Listening to classical music when I write has helped my creativity tremendously. Studies were done on the subject. And they … showed that when you listen to music, … it forces your left brain and right brain to work at the same time. It basically increases your creativity." "I have found that there are a lot of parallels between being a parent and being a leader … [but] I guess if you screw up as a leader those mistakes don't haunt you for the rest of your life." "When you study the lives of composers, … you're goi

Steve House is Founder of Uphill Athlete and a proudly retired professional climber and mountain guide. Jan has known him for years. For 21 years, Steve was a professional climber. In 1999 he became only the ninth American to achieve IFMGA certification, which is the highest level to guide all over the world. He has guided trips all across the world. In this discussion, Steve shares his journey from mountain sports to high-altitude climbing, to a nearly fatal fall, to coaching. Besides coaching mountain athletes, his current challenge is getting his pilot's license. Steve talks about the purposes of mountain sports and how separation from daily distractions while moving your body through nature guides you on your journey. https://bit.ly/TLP-354 Key Takeaways [1:53] Jan shares Steve's bio. (See at the end of the show notes.) [4:19] Steve thanks Jan and Jim for the invitation to The Leadership Podcast. As a professional athlete, there's not much that's not in his public bio. He's almost a private pilot and is less than a month from taking his final practical exam. He describes a recent incredible flight and the energy flying gives him. [7:09] When Steve was 20, he was studying in college to be an aeronautical engineer. Then he got hijacked by climbing. Now he has the chance to come back and do something he has always loved. [8:17] In 2010, Steve was doing a training climb preparing for an expedition to do a new route on the west face of K2 with an expert fellow climber. He had a bad fall of around 100 feet. He broke 24 ribs. Two ribs were smashed into innumerable pieces. He had multiple pelvis fractures, knocked all the spinal processes off his vertebrae, and had many internal injuries. [9:18] Steve lay on his back for about two hours. He knew he had hemopneumothorax. His breathing grew shallow as his chest cavity filled with blood. What came out of that was a lot of self-reflection. He had to come to terms with his drive to become the very best at what he did. That was his mission statement. [10:45] As Steve reflected, at age 39, he was trying to figure out if he would function again. He had to think about what his values were, and what he cared about and wanted to do. Was it time to change his mission statement? He hadn't accomplished everything in climbing but he decided he had accomplished enough. He could be proud of what he did do, and he was going to pivot to other values and other goals. [11:57] In elite sports, you're boxed off from the world. You eat, sleep, train, and go climb. You save all your energy to be better. It's how you achieve individual greatness. But you're not part of a team. Steve saw his crisis as a time to reflect and redirect. [13:48] Steve thinks that due to the intensity with which he pursued his goals, he required an intense jolt to trigger reflection. Anything less wasn't going to work. He notes that most of the people he climbed with are dead. That's how risky and dangerous climbing is. Steve has only a handful of friends from that era that are still alive. Steve realized he was going to join those who were no longer alive if he continued. [15:29] As a mountain sports trainer, Steve is in a position to help athletes get past the binary narrative of success or failure. There's a much greater range of possible experiences. We have often seen that the one that came in first cheated or used performance-enhancing substances. The whole paradigm is broken. There is another way to experience sports. Mountain sports do not have a history of competition. [17:02] Steve would tell his younger self he was always going to feel like an imposter, and that was completely OK, and that everybody else does, too. That feeling was one of the things that were hardest for him to overcome. It goes back to childhood. He was the scrawny little kid that wasn't good at sports. [18:49] One of the things that Steve learned from childhood was grit. He loved gritty experiences from a very early age. When he was 10, he backpacked his first 50-mile hike. When he was 11, he climbed Mount Hood. These were just things they did as a family or with his father. He enjoyed it. [20:37] Steve and his Uphill Athlete team talk about Campbell's Hero's Journey paradigm and try to figure out what step their client is on for that journey. The goal is to help them through that one step. Everyone is on the same journey, at a different step. [23:22] Uphill Athlete doesn't exist to motivate people but to educate and inspire. Coaching is education and teaching people how they can apply endurance training methodologies and see the changes in their bodies. It takes a couple of months for people to get fully bought in and see their progress. When they get to that epiphany, they are committed to the journey for life and remain in the Uphill Athlete community. [25:17] Going back to the imposter syndrome, Steve is often surprised that he knows the answer. And the only reason he can know the answer is because he lived it through 20 years of being an athlete. These are things you cannot learn in a physiology textbook. [26:05] What holds people back is their minds, their fears, their insecurities, and the pieces that they don't understand, or can't conceptualize well. Those are the questions Steven can clear up easily, but he is always surprised. [27:37] Steve tried to teach a man with a Ph.D. in exercise physiology how to coach but it was impossible because he didn't understand what it felt like in his body to do what was written on the training plan. He couldn't relate to the people even though he'd run circles around everybody on the science. [28:27] When Steve interviews people to be coaches, he's looking for people who have a unique superpower. He doesn't need 15 people that all know the same thing. He needs people that have different backgrounds and experiences and are willing and eager to share with other people and also learn from them. They have to be far enough along on their journey that they can take feedback constructively. [29:17] When you have a team that can do all of those things, it's incredible. Steve's team includes physical therapists, medical doctors, masters in high altitude physiology, and coaches that have coached every endurance sport you can imagine. They have great energy between them. [30:29] Some people Steven hires have well-defined superpowers. Some younger people don't know their superpower. Steven describes how he leverages coaches to develop the superpower in people within a relationship that is entirely a safe place for them to ask those "dumb questions." [33:39] Steve has a lot of athletes that do not have a set goal. They want to learn and experience and be in a community of like-minded people. Steve tells them it's OK not to have an Everest goal. Sometimes it's enough to engage with people as you learn. [36:10] Arthur Brooks's new book, From Strength to Strength, is about finding clarity in the second chapter of life. [36:47] Steve uses the phrase, "naming the uncertainty." Write down what you don't know. Let that sit. People come back to him in a month and say it was great to let that sink in. There are more than two chapters for a lot of people. [37:38] Mountain sports have an important role to play in people's journeys. Being in the wilderness in small teams and overcoming obstacles lets the noise go away. So much more happens out there than we give it credit for. People are not getting pings out there moving their bodies through nature and letting their subconscious minds do the work. Steve has solved writer's block many times with a long walk. [43:52] Steven's final thought: "It's joyful to learn something. It's joyful to become fitter. It's joyful to climb a mountain. … Walking up a summit ridge and standing on top of a mountain is ultimately no different than walking into the grocery store and going to the cereal aisle. But what is different is if you've been to the top of the mountain, you have an appreciation for all the rest." [45:34] Closing quote: Remember, "People say, 'Are you insane?' But the most successful climbers are the most calculating, with the most refined sense of risk. They're hyper-conscious of safety. They're the least insane people I know." — Jimmy Chin Quotable Quotes "I'm almost a private pilot. … I'm less than a month away. … I just had an amazing flight. … I flew from Slovenia down into Croatia, landed on an island, … flew back to Slovenia, landed … in the mountains in Slovenia, Took off from there, and returned to the home airport." "[After a difficult accomplishment], at the end of the day, you just feel so full of energy and experience and awe." "In 2010, I was doing a training climb. I was preparing for an expedition to climb a new route, … and … I fell around 100 feet. I broke 24 ribs, … I had multiple pelvis fractures, … [and] internal injuries. … I lay there for about two hours. I had a hemopneumothorax." "We don't always need a crisis. Sometimes it just takes a long walk in the woods. But I think that reassessing our values and making sure that they align with our purpose and our mission is probably something that all of us have to do many times throughout our lives." "This whole thing of like, 'If you're not first, you're last,' invalidates pretty much everyone's experience except one person's." "I loved gritty experiences from a very early age." "I'm often surprised that I know the answer. And the only reason I can know the answer is because I lived it through 20 years of being an athlete. These are things you cannot learn in a physiology textbook." "I've written four books now and I can't tell you how many times writer's block has just been solved by a long walk — and with no purpose. A walk with no purpose." Resources Mentioned Theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by: Darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC Steve House Uphill Athlete Vince Anderson Central Pillar of the Rupal Face Piolet d'Or (Golden Ice Ace) Reinhold Messner Campbell's Hero'