A Little Bit Culty

In Part 2 of our conversation with journalist and author Chet Hardin, we trade the NXIVM rabbit hole for another deeply disturbing case of charisma, coercion, and a self-appointed king with a seriously dark side. Chet joins us to discuss his book, The Vampire’s Cult: The Untold Story of Obsession, Control, and a Shocking Small-Town Murder, which explores the world of convicted murderer Aubrey Trail, his accomplice Bailey Boswell, and the murder of Sydney Loofe in Nebraska. Drawing on his reporting and hours of conversations with Trail, Chet unpacks how a man with a long criminal history built a small, cult-like circle around himself by exploiting people’s vulnerabilities, promising money and security, and gradually tightening his grip through isolation, dependency, and control. Naturally, we can’t help comparing notes with our own experience of NXIVM, Keith Raniere, and DOS: from love bombing and manufactured specialness to rules governing women’s bodies, constant check-ins, and demands for obedience, the parallels are chilling. We also discuss Chet’s earlier book, The Program: Inside the Mind of Keith Raniere and The Rise and Fall of NXIVM, the psychology of con men and cult leaders, and why none of us are quite as immune to manipulation as we might like to think. Turns out, cult dynamics don’t require a fancy self-help curriculum or a volleyball court to get seriously sinister.Be sure to check out Chet’s website at ChetHardin.com and follow him on Instagram @chethardin.Trigger warning: This episode contains frank discussion of murder, graphic violence, sexual content, sex work, coercive control, manipulation, abuse, and childhood trauma, including abusive conditions in juvenile detention facilities.Also…let it be known that:The views and opinions expressed on A Little Bit Culty do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the podcast. Any content provided by our guests, bloggers, sponsors or authors are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any religion, group, club, organization, business, individual, anyone or anything. Nobody’s mad at you, just don’t be a culty fuckwad.Buy the A Little Bit Culty paperback, ebook, or audiobook on Amazon or order a signed copy.Check out our amazing sponsorsJoin A Little Bit Culty on PatreonGet poppin’ fresh ALBC SwagSupport the pod and smash this linkCheck out our cult awareness and recovery resourcesWatch Sarah's TED Talk and buy her memoir, ScarredCREDITS:Executive Producers: Sarah Edmondson & Anthony AmesProduction Partner: Citizens of SoundCo-Creator: Jess TardyAudio production: Will RetherfordProduction Coordinator: Lesli DinsmoreWriter and administrator: Sandra NomotoSocial media team: Eric Skwarzynski and Brooke KeaneTheme Song: “Cultivated” by Jon Bryant co-written with Nygel AsselinSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Journalist and author Chet Hardin joins ALBC to revisit the early days of reporting on NXIVM, Keith Raniere, and the machinery of intimidation that kept members insulated from outside scrutiny. Chet was only a month into his job at Metroland when attorney Joe O’Hara called with a story about a group “some people might call a cult,” leading him to Toni Natalie, Rick Ross, and a dossier that made clear NXIVM was already watching its critics very closely.NXIVM sued Chet’s newspaper for tens of millions of dollars, tried to recruit him, and invited him to a midnight volleyball game where Keith Raniere offered an exclusive interview in exchange for Chet stopping his reporting on the Dalai Lama. We also unpack the group’s legal warfare, Kristin Keeffe’s access to the district attorney’s office, the arrests of whistleblowers including Toni Natalie and John Tighe, and how Chet’s later book, The Program: Inside the Mind of Keith Raniere and The Rise and Fall of NXIVM (with Toni Natalie), helped connect the pieces he had spent years chasing.Stay tuned for Part 2 when Chet discusses The Vampire’s Cult and the disturbing parallels between Keith Raniere and Nebraska cult leader Aubrey Trail—two men who used isolation, control, and carefully dangled promises to draw vulnerable people into their orbits.Be sure to check out Chet’s website at ChetHardin.com and follow him on Instagram @chethardin.Trigger warning: This episode contains frank discussion of cult coercion and manipulation, stalking and surveillance, lawsuits and legal intimidation, sexual misconduct, child sexual abuse, child pornography, imprisonment, suicide, and emotionally distressing testimony.Also…let it be known that:The views and opinions expressed on A Little Bit Culty do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the podcast. Any content provided by our guests, bloggers, sponsors or authors are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any religion, group, club, organization, business, individual, anyone or anything. Nobody’s mad at you, just don’t be a culty fuckwad.Buy the A Little Bit Culty paperback, ebook, or audiobook on Amazon or order a signed copy.Check out our amazing sponsorsJoin A Little Bit Culty on PatreonGet poppin’ fresh ALBC SwagSupport the pod and smash this linkCheck out our cult awareness and recovery resourcesWatch Sarah's TED Talk and buy her memoir, ScarredCREDITS:Executive Producers: Sarah Edmondson & Anthony AmesProduction Partner: Citizens of SoundCo-Creator: Jess TardyAudio production: Will RetherfordProduction Coordinator: Lesli DinsmoreWriter and administrator: Sandra NomotoSocial media team: Eric Skwarzynski and Brooke KeaneTheme Song: “Cultivated” by Jon Bryant co-written with Nygel AsselinSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Ryan Carey grew up in the Geelong Revival Center, a Pentecostal Fundamentalist group where nuclear Armageddon was apparently on the calendar, but choosing your own career or dating without permission was a bridge too far. He joined us to talk about doomsday beliefs, religious trauma, shunning, and the coercive control that dictated everything from relationships to access to mental-health care—and what finally made him stop doing the mental gymnastics and leave.But Ryan and his wife Catherine weren’t interested in playing cult whack-a-mole. Alongside fellow survivors and journalist Richard Baker, they helped push for a Victorian parliamentary inquiry into cults and fringe groups, taking their fight from the lounge room to the halls of government. We get into survivor advocacy, group-based coercive control, child protection, and the work of turning recommendations into legislation—because “religious freedom” shouldn’t come with a complimentary license to abuse people.Follow Stop Religious Coercion Australia on TikTok @stop_religious_coercion and check out Ryan at the DECULT conference this weekend.Trigger warning: This episode contains frank discussion of religious, spiritual, and child sexual abuse, childhood trauma, suicide, grief and death, doomsday and nuclear-war fears, denial of mental-health treatment, misogyny, shunning, and family estrangement.Also…let it be known that:The views and opinions expressed on A Little Bit Culty do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the podcast. Any content provided by our guests, bloggers, sponsors or authors are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any religion, group, club, organization, business, individual, anyone or anything. Nobody’s mad at you, just don’t be a culty fuckwad.Buy the A Little Bit Culty paperback, ebook, or audiobook on Amazon or order a signed copy.Check out our amazing sponsorsJoin A Little Bit Culty on PatreonGet poppin’ fresh ALBC SwagSupport the pod and smash this linkCheck out our cult awareness and recovery resourcesWatch Sarah's TED Talk and buy her memoir, ScarredCREDITS:Executive Producers: Sarah Edmondson & Anthony AmesProduction Partner: Citizens of SoundCo-Creator: Jess TardyAudio production: Will RetherfordProduction Coordinator: Lesli DinsmoreWriter and administrator: Sandra NomotoSocial media team: Eric Skwarzynski and Brooke KeaneTheme Song: “Cultivated” by Jon Bryant co-written with Nygel AsselinSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In this episode, Sarah Green joins us to share what it was like growing up inside the Aggressive Christianity Missions Training Corps (ACMTC), a closed religious community led by her mother Deborah Green, a self-proclaimed prophet. Her family’s story began in the 1960s hippie scene and the Bear Tribe, then shifted into missionary life and a growing apocalyptic group—where homeschooling, isolation, exorcisms, and the rule that Mom was never wrong gradually squeezed out any chance to question or just be a kid.Sarah talked about longing for an education, trying to leave, and eventually escaping with almost no money or paperwork, determined to build a safer life and become a midwife. She also recounts the heartbreaking attempt to reunite with her children, the FBI investigation and court case that followed, and how she found the courage to keep going—and to remind others that asking for help is allowed. The episode connects her story to The Oracle’s Daughter: The Rise and Fall of an American Cult, past ALBC guest Harrison Hill’s book about Sarah’s family. It explores religious abuse, coercive control, survival, and the long road toward reclaiming your life.Trigger warning: This episode contains frank discussion of child abuse, educational neglect, religious and spiritual abuse, exorcisms, isolation, family separation, homelessness, death, weapons, and distressing court proceedings.Also…let it be known that:The views and opinions expressed on A Little Bit Culty do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the podcast. Any content provided by our guests, bloggers, sponsors or authors are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any religion, group, club, organization, business, individual, anyone or anything. Nobody’s mad at you, just don’t be a culty fuckwad.Buy the A Little Bit Culty paperback, ebook, or audiobook on Amazon or order a signed copy.Check out our amazing sponsorsJoin A Little Bit Culty on PatreonGet poppin’ fresh ALBC SwagSupport the pod and smash this linkCheck out our cult awareness and recovery resourcesWatch Sarah's TED Talk and buy her memoir, ScarredCREDITS:Executive Producers: Sarah Edmondson & Anthony AmesProduction Partner: Citizens of SoundCo-Creator: Jess TardyAudio production: Will RetherfordProduction Coordinator: Lesli DinsmoreWriter and administrator: Sandra NomotoSocial media team: Eric Skwarzynski and Brooke KeaneTheme Song: “Cultivated” by Jon Bryant co-written with Nygel AsselinSUPPORT OUR SPONSORS:If you’ve been waiting to start therapy, BetterHelp works with more than 125 health plan networks, and eligible members have an average copay of just $23 per session with insurance. Don’t have insurance or live outside the U.S.? You can still get 10% off your first month.Visit BetterHelp.com/culty to explore your payment options.Download Whatnot today and get $20 off your first purchase. Search Whatnot in the app store, sign up, and start finding the best deals on the products you love with $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Julianna Glasse is back for Part 2, and this one is all about what comes after the leaving and what you build when you refuse to swap one savior for another. We hear about the three years Julianna spent being, in her words, “spiritually promiscuous:” traveling the world, visiting temples and mosques, dating freely and non-monogamously, deliberately not writing her book until she could show women how to be the hero of their own story rather than just trade one belief system for another. The intentionality of that choice is its own kind of radical act.We get into her Oxford dissertation's central revelation: that shame, fear, isolation, and psychological manipulation are the universal tools that oppressive religious systems use on women across cultures—and that once you name the internal mechanics rather than the external differences, a girl from Iowa and a girl from Saudi Arabia suddenly look at each other and say "me too." That insight became the curriculum at her organization, This Is What Happens When Women Read, which has already reached over four million women in 67 countries in just a year and a half, including a woman in Botswana who hosted 41 women for dinner in honor of Julianna's birthday.Julianna's advice to anyone secretly listening from a bathroom with headphones is some of the most quietly powerful we've heard: you have intrinsic worth. There is no gatekeeper between you and love or God or yourself. Be very private with your becoming. Ask of everything put before you—does this feel like love or does this feel like fear? We never got to the boat chapter in This Is What Happens When Women Read; you'll have to read the book for that one. Trust us—you'll want to.Be sure to follow Julianna on Instagram, TikTok, and LinkedIn.Trigger warning: This episode contains frank discussion of religious coercion, shame-based control, isolation, and psychological manipulation within religious systems.Also…let it be known that:The views and opinions expressed on A Little Bit Culty do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the podcast. Any content provided by our guests, bloggers, sponsors or authors are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any religion, group, club, organization, business, individual, anyone or anything. Nobody’s mad at you, just don’t be a culty fuckwad.Buy the A Little Bit Culty paperback, ebook, or audiobook on Amazon or order a signed copy.Check out our amazing sponsorsJoin A Little Bit Culty on PatreonGet poppin’ fresh ALBC SwagSupport the pod and smash this linkCheck out our cult awareness and recovery resourcesWatch Sarah's TED Talk and buy her memoir, ScarredCREDITS:Executive Producers: Sarah Edmondson & Anthony AmesProduction Partner: Citizens of SoundCo-Creator: Jess TardyAudio production: Will RetherfordProduction Coordinator: Lesli DinsmoreWriter and administrator: Sandra NomotoSocial media team: Eric Skwarzynski and Brooke KeaneTheme Song: “Cultivated” by Jon Bryant co-written with Nygel AsselinSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.