psychophobia* podcast

“Stop it. Abolish involuntary commitment.” — Rob Wipond— —What does consent mean if it can be withdrawn on your behalf? Investigative journalist Rob Wipond joins Dr. Michael R. Montgomery for the first part of a conversation about forced psychiatric treatment, the authority to override another person’s agency, and the lives behind the language of protection. For Rob, author of Your Consent Is Not Required, the investigation began close to home: his father went to a psychiatric hospital seeking help and was held against his will.There is a particular loneliness in asking for help and discovering that your account of yourself no longer carries weight. Beneath the arguments about treatment and risk lies something deeply human: the need to speak honestly about suffering without becoming a problem to be managed. Michael and Rob ask what we are willing to justify in the name of care—and what we fail to hear when we are certain we already know what someone needs.—“Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive.” — C.S. Lewis— —Follow RobRob Wipond’s website — PsychForce Report on Substack — Read Rob’s book, ‘Your Consent is Not RequiredFollow us on*psychophobia.com — Substack — LinkedIn — Instagram — YouTubeSend us a message: speakpipe.com/psychophobia— —Rob Wipond is an investigative journalist and author of Your Consent Is Not Required: The Rise in Psychiatric Detentions, Forced Treatment, and Abusive Guardianships. His reporting examines the intersection of psychiatry, civil rights, policing, and surveillance, with particular attention to coercion in mental health care. His work has received seventeen magazine and journalism award nominations. He also publishes PsychForce Report, a newsletter tracking the expanding use of forced psychiatric interventions.—Dr. Michael R. Montgomery* Dr. Montgomery is an existential psychoanalyst with international expertise in complex trauma, extreme states, addiction, and conflict resolution. He trained at Regent’s University London, the Tavistock and Portman, and the Anna Freud Centre. He is the founder of Logic23.com and Peacefire.us, and his clinical work is primarily community-based, focusing on patients typically excluded from quality care. A regular contributor to the Society for Existential Analysis, the R.D. Laing Symposium, and ISPS-US, he has over 30 published peer-reviewed works and is currently developing a new book alongside this podcast.— —Episode Chapters*0:00:00 – Cold Open: “Behind These Statistics Are Broken Lives”0:00:25 – Welcome to psychophobia*0:00:32 – What Would You Tell Congress?0:03:23 – The Parting Shot: Abolish Forced Treatment0:04:54 – Your Consent Is Not Required0:06:32 – Finding Hope in Connection0:08:08 – Rob’s Father & the Beginning of an Investigation0:11:07 – Losing Your Rights—and Your Voice0:11:54 – When Words Become Grounds for Detention0:14:02 – Where Can You Go to Scream?0:15:39 – Who Gets Held, Who Gets Turned Away?0:19:03 – Targets, Good Intentions & Institutional Harm0:21:17 – What Forced Treatment Does to Practitioners0:23:13 – Refusing to Participate: Michael’s Social Work Training0:25:09 – Coercion Beyond the Hospital0:27:03 – Homelessness, Housing & the Push for Commitment0:28:01 – Profit, Human Contact & the Need for a Hug0:30:09 – The People Behind the Caricature0:33:32 – Meeting Brokenheartedness with Openheartedness0:34:24 – “You’re the First Person That’s Ever Actually Listened”0:36:37 – When Nobody Asks Your Story0:37:22 – Losing Your Phone, Losing Your Stability0:39:25 – Community Support Versus Isolation0:40:10 – Psychiatric Detention & Due Process0:41:39 – Wellness Checks & Epistemic Destabilization0:44:13 – False Reports & the Question of Accountability— —Please note that while I am a therapist, I am not your therapist. This podcast explores mental health and the human experience, but it is not a substitute for therapy, medical care, or professional advice. Any decisions regarding your mental health, including changes to medication or treatment, should be made in consultation with a qualified healthcare professional you trust. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit psychophobia.substack.com

In a Manhattan park, Dr. Michael R. Montgomery and producer Brandon Keogan begin with the word ‘psychophobia’: fear of the mind. Michael asks why depression is so often treated as a chronic illness rather than met with support, and whether anxiety can help us understand what isn’t right in our lives.Beneath the conversation is a question of trust: in our own minds, in one another, and in those given the authority to define our experience as ‘abnormal’. What becomes possible when someone takes the time to truly understand us? Against the city’s passing noise, Michael and Brandon dissect the uncertainty of being human- and the possibility that mental health begins with a willingness to encounter one another.— —“If you don’t know your mind, then someone else can own it.” — Dr. Michael R. Montgomery— —Follow Dr. Montgomery onpsychophobia.com — Substack — LinkedIn — @psychophobia_project — YouTubeFollow BrandonKinsmen Sound — LinkedInSend us a message: speakpipe.com/psychophobia— —Brandon Keogan is the producer of the psychophobia* podcast and co-founder of Kinsmen Sound, a boutique audio production studio focused on podcast and film sound. With a background in frontier AI, podcasting, film sound, a degree in music composition and a decade of zen practice, he also serves as Communications Director across Dr. Montgomery’s portfolio of projects, including PeaceFire.—Dr. Michael R. Montgomery Dr. Montgomery is an existential psychoanalyst with international expertise in complex trauma, extreme states, addiction, and conflict resolution. He trained at Regent’s University London, the Tavistock and Portman, and the Anna Freud Centre. He is the founder of Logic23.com and Peacefire.us, and his clinical work is primarily community-based, focusing on patients typically excluded from quality care. A regular contributor to the Society for Existential Analysis, the R.D. Laing Symposium, and ISPS-US, he has over 30 published peer-reviewed works and is currently developing a new book alongside this podcast.— —Episode Chapters0:00:00 – Welcome to psychophobia*0:00:12 – Fear of the Mind: What Does Psychophobia Mean?0:01:32 – The Function of Emotion & Existential Anxiety0:02:18 – Unusual Experiences & the Stories We Tell Ourselves0:03:08 – Integration, Medication & the Pressure of Liability0:04:17 – Orwell, AI & Who Owns Your Mind0:05:47 – Where Did Your Beliefs Come From?0:07:00 – Postmodernism, Truth & the Question of Hierarchy0:10:04 – Psychiatric Assessment & the Three-Day Hold0:11:30 – Sleep, Setting & “Manufacturing Madness”0:13:22 – What Does It Mean to Encounter Someone?0:15:29 – Trust, Handcuffs & the Person as Product0:17:23 – The Silence Challenge & Internalized Psychophobia0:18:09 – Jesus, Love & What Gets Called Threatening0:19:22 – Form Versus Content: Listening to the Experience0:21:30 – “One Encounter at a Time” & the Clinician’s Own Work0:22:37 – A Prescribing Role-Play: “Have You Tried It?”0:24:39 – Altered States, Authority & Forced Medication0:26:05 – From Fear of the Mind to Love0:27:27 – Where to Find psychophobia*— —Please note that while I am a therapist, I am not your therapist. This podcast explores mental health and the human experience, but it is not a substitute for therapy, medical care, or professional advice. Any decisions regarding your mental health, including changes to medication or treatment, should be made in consultation with a qualified healthcare professional you trust. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit psychophobia.substack.com

Is a psychiatric ward really that different from a prison?— After twenty years of practice across five countries, Michael says he knows conclusively what a person in acute distress needs, and it isn’t a professional. In this table-talk episode, producer Brandon Keogan sits across from Dr. Michael R. Montgomery to ask how the podcast came to exist, where it’s headed, and what has shifted since Season 1. —"You have to be mad enough to imagine peace for it to happen." — —Relevant LinksFollow us onpsychophobia.com — Substack — LinkedIn — @psychophobia_project — Youtube — InstagramFollow BrandonKinsmen Sound — Brandon on LinkedIn Send us a message: https://www.speakpipe.com/psychophobia— —Brandon Keogan is the producer of the Psychophobia* Podcast and co-founder of Kinsmen Sound, a boutique audio production studio focused on film and podcast production. With a background in music composition, audio post-production, and AI he also serves as Executive Producer and Chief of Staff across Dr. Montgomery’s portfolio of projects, including Psychophobia, Peacefire, and Logic23.—Dr. Michael R. Montgomery is an existential psychoanalyst with international expertise in complex trauma, extreme states, addiction, and conflict resolution. He trained at Regent’s University London, the Tavistock and Portman, and the Anna Freud Centre. He is the founder of Logic23.com and Peacefire.us, and his clinical work is primarily community-based, focusing on patients typically excluded from quality care. A regular contributor to the Society for Existential Analysis, the R.D. Laing Symposium, and ISPS-US, he has over 30 published peer-reviewed works and is currently developing a new book alongside this podcast.— —Episode Chapters0:00:00 – Cold Open: What If the Anxiety Is a Message?0:00:54 – “They Need a Friend, Not a Professional” 0:03:14 – How the Podcast Began0:05:58 – Epistemic Injustice, Loneliness & Destabilization0:07:59 – Cult Consciousness & Seeing Through the Guru0:11:05 – Epistemic Annihilation & Forced Incarceration0:12:57 – The Cancer Question & the Thought Police0:15:34 – The Emperor’s New Groove & Paul McCartney’s Lamb0:17:30 – The Hunger Strike, the Beatles & the Death of Innocence0:20:06 – PeaceFire, Orwell & Why Imagination Gets Removed0:22:37 – A Terrible Epiphany: The Patient as Product0:26:48 – “If You Create a Beast, It Needs Fed”: Big Pharma & Pharmakon0:31:40 – The Benzo Example: Letting Suffering Breathe0:34:38 – All Mental Suffering Is Spiritual Crisis0:37:59 – The One Thing to Take Away— —Please note that while I am a therapist, I am not your therapist. This podcast explores mental health and the human experience, but it is not a substitute for therapy, medical care, or professional advice. Any decisions regarding your mental health, including changes to medication or treatment, should be made in consultation with a qualified healthcare professional you trust. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit psychophobia.substack.com

“Hope is not the conviction that something will turn out well, but the certainty that something makes sense regardless of how it turns out.” — Václav Havel— —Stevie Nicks lost her creativity, her zest for life, and her body to a benzodiazepine cocktail prescribed by a psychiatrist she trusted. A friend who tried the same regimen was on his back by evening. It took three months in a clinic to detox - and her life came back. Stories like hers are the ground Michael and Robert Whitaker walk in the second half of their conversation, alongside Tony Stanton’s residential center for the “worst of the worst” kids who “came alive again” once the medications stopped, and the polypharmacy patterns that, as Bob puts it, have “zero, zip” evidence behind them. From there the conversation widens into what Mad in America has built, the alternatives operating at scale in Norway and Israel, and a philosophy of care that fits on a notecard: how can I be of help to you? If recovery and hope have somehow become the conspiracy theories of modern psychiatric culture, perhaps the revolution is simpler than a new model of care.— —“When did recovery and hope become conspiracy theories?“ — Dr. Michael R. Montgomery— —Follow uspsychophobia.com | Substack | LinkedIn | Instagram | YoutubeSend us a message: https://www.speakpipe.com/psychophobiaFollow BobMad In AmericaBooksMad In America | Anatomy of an Epidemic | Psychiatry Under the Influence— —Robert Whitaker is an American journalist and author who has won numerous awards as a journalist covering medicine and science, including the George Polk Award for Medical Writing and a National Association for Science Writers’ Award for best magazine article. In 1998, he co-wrote a series on psychiatric research for the Boston Globe that was a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize for Public Service. His first book, Mad in America, was named by Discover magazine as one of the best science books of 2002. Anatomy of an Epidemic won the 2010 Investigative Reporters and Editors book award for best investigative journalism. He is the publisher of madinamerica.com. He is a Clinical Assistant Professor (Adjunct) in the Lewis Katz School of Medicine at Temple University, Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Science.Dr. Michael R. Montgomery is an existential psychoanalyst whose work explores the far edges of human experience, including complex trauma, extreme states, addiction, and the psychological aftermath of conflict. Trained at Regent’s University London, the Tavistock and Portman, and the Anna Freud Centre, his clinical work focuses primarily on community-based care for individuals often excluded from traditional mental health systems. He is faculty, and a supervising analyst at the New School for Existential Psychoanalysis, CA. He is the founder of Logic23.com and Peacefire.us and a regular contributor to the Society for Existential Analysis, the R.D. Laing Symposium, and ISPS-US. He has published more than 30 peer-reviewed works and is currently developing a new book alongside the psychophobia* podcast.— —Episode Chapters00:00:05 – Intro & The Eli Lilly Admission00:01:10 – Polypharmacy: The Rabbit Hole Without Evidence00:04:20 – How to Get on More Medication: Try Coming Off00:07:46 – The Interns, Stevie Nicks & Malaysia: Polypharmacy in Real Life00:12:41 – Tony Stanton’s Residential Center & The Real Predictors of Distress00:16:10 – A Thought Experiment & The Singer’s Demo CD00:20:50 – What Actually Helps: Stories of Relationships00:23:12 – The Broken Arm vs. The Human Condition00:25:12 – The Creep of Risk & The Loss of Liberty00:26:45 – Epistemic Destabilization & The Difference Between Real and True00:31:03 – Crazy-Making: When Your Experience Is Discounted00:33:30 – Mad in America the Platform: Origins, Mission & Global Affiliates00:39:16 – Legacy & The Three Pillars of the Work00:43:27 – When Did Recovery and Hope Become Conspiracy Theories?00:46:15 – Othering as the Root of Cruelty00:47:41 – Psychophobia, The Asterisk & The Centrality of Uncertainty00:54:48 – Forced Treatment: The Hardest Question00:57:40 – San Francisco, The Opioid Crisis & Societal Failure01:06:06 – Open Dialogue in Finland & Why It Didn’t Export Well01:12:59 – “How Can I Be of Help to You?”: A Philosophy of Care01:15:09 – Closing: Hope, Optimism & The Future— —Please note that while I am a therapist, I am not your therapist. This podcast explores mental health and the human experience, but it is not a substitute for therapy, medical care, or professional advice. Any decisions regarding your mental health, including changes to medication or treatment, should be made in consultation with a qualified healthcare professional you trust. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit psychophobia.substack.com

"These are not the side effects of the medication. These are the effects of the medication." — R.D. Laing— —The former head of the American Psychiatric Association once called Robert Whitaker "a menace to society." Bob says he'd put it on his gravestone. In this conversation, Michael traces the through-line from the unlikely apprenticeships that taught Bob to take seriously the people most of the world had discounted - driving a New York cab with no partition in the late 1970s, working the overnight desk at an SRO hotel, running a tutoring program inside Attica prison after the riots - to the 1998 Boston Globe investigation where he found himself holding two irreconcilable narratives: one from the experts, one from the patients. The book that followed, Mad in America, did something simple and unforgivable. It took the patients' story seriously, followed the data, and found that the data agreed with them. They walk through the World Health Organization's own cross-cultural findings, the Harvard study showing long-term outcomes had declined, the Harrow-Jobe data Bob brought back to the researchers themselves, and the central tragedy his decades of work circle back to: a model of care that transforms what could be episodic difficulties into lifelong chronic conditions.The good news, Bob argues, is that the official narrative has collapsed in the research literature. The bad news is that prescribing practices haven't.— —"We have a form of care that transforms what could be episodic problems into chronic conditions." — Robert Whitaker— —Relevant LinksFollow us onpsychophobia.com | Substack | LinkedIn | Instagram | YoutubeFollow BobMad In AmericaBooksMad In America | Anatomy of an Epidemic | Psychiatry Under the InfluenceSend us a message: https://www.speakpipe.com/psychophobia— —Robert Whitaker is an American journalist and author who has won numerous awards as a journalist covering medicine and science, including the George Polk Award for Medical Writing and a National Association for Science Writers' Award for best magazine article. In 1998, he co-wrote a series on psychiatric research for the Boston Globe that was a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize for Public Service. His first book, Mad in America, was named by Discover magazine as one of the best science books of 2002. Anatomy of an Epidemic won the 2010 Investigative Reporters and Editors book award for best investigative journalism. He is the publisher of madinamerica.com. He is a Clinical Assistant Professor (Adjunct) in the Lewis Katz School of Medicine at Temple University, Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Science.— —Dr. Michael R. Montgomery is an existential psychoanalyst whose work explores the far edges of human experience, including complex trauma, extreme states, addiction, and the psychological aftermath of conflict. Trained at Regent's University London, the Tavistock and Portman, and the Anna Freud Centre, his clinical work focuses primarily on community-based care for individuals often excluded from traditional mental health systems. He is faculty, and a supervising analyst at the New School for Existential Psychoanalysis, CA. He is the founder of Logic23.com and Peacefire.us and a regular contributor to the Society for Existential Analysis, the R.D. Laing Symposium, and ISPS-US. He has published more than 30 peer-reviewed works and is currently developing a new book alongside the psychophobia* podcast.— —Episode Chapters00:00:05 – Intro & Why This Episode Took So Long00:01:25 – The Yellow Cab: Driving New York 1978-198400:04:45 – No Partition: The Vulnerability of the Encounter00:08:28 – The SRO Hotel, Orwell & The Stories Told at 3 AM00:11:36 – Inside Attica: Tutoring After the Riots00:17:59 – A Menace to Society: The Question00:19:11 – The Boston Globe Series & Two Competing Narratives00:24:48 – The Harvard Study & The WHO Cross-Cultural Findings00:30:23 – Why Being Challenged Made the Work Stronger00:31:27 – Anatomy of an Epidemic & The Harrow-Jobe Story00:38:07 – Why Informed Consent Is Treated as a Threat00:42:17 – Michael's Story: Walking Onto the Psychiatric Ward00:43:39 – Malaysia & The Business of Big Pharma00:48:25 – Two Impulses Behind Broken Care00:50:04 – Episodic Problems Made Chronic00:50:52 – Open Dialogue, The Collapse of the Narrative & Today's Mismatch— —Please note that while I am a therapist, I am not your therapist. This podcast explores mental health and the human experience, but it is not a substitute for therapy, medical care, or professional advice. Any decisions regarding your mental health, including changes to medication or treatment, should be made in consultation with a qualified healthcare professional you trust. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit psychophobia.substack.com