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For The Love With Jen Hatmaker Podcast
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For The Love With Jen Hatmaker Podcast

Author: Jen Hatmaker

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"For the love" of...People. Home. Stories. Shoes. Family. Jesus. Community. TV. Travel. Food. Culture. The hilarious best-selling author and star of HGTV’s “My Big Family Renovation” invites you to drop by and catch up with her friends as they laugh and chat about all the things we love.
210 Episodes
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Next up in our For the Love of Reconnecting series, we’re touching base with a very important and easy-to-lose-hold-of concept: our boundaries. If 2020 taught us anything, it’s how much setting boundaries impacts our life. So why do we feel guilty when we actually do set them? And when was the last time you took a second to think about what you need and what you have the capacity for? Therapist Nedra Glover Tawwab, author of the book Set Boundaries, Find Peace, walks us through how we draw these needed lines, and why it’s important for us to have them in the first place (spoiler alert: they’re crucial for our mental health and keep us away from resentment and burnout). It’s okay for us to ask for what we want and take charge of our own lives, even if some people don’t agree—because in the end, you really do know what’s best for you.    * * * Thank you to our sponsors!   1| Best Fiends – Download FREE on the Apple App Store or Google Play 2| BetterHelp – Start living a happier, healthier life – get 10% off your first month at betterHelp.com/forthelove 3| Stamps.com – Never go to the Post Office again! Get a 4-week trial, PLUS free postage and a digital scale at Stamps.com, promo code FORTHELOVE
New year, new series! We’re thinking all about For the Love of Reconnecting, where we’ll try to get back in touch with who we are and what we value, so that we can start to inch forward in this brand-new year. What’s holding you back? Is there a real obstacle standing in the way of your growth—or is it just a story you’re telling yourself? Therapist, author, TED Talk superstar and podcast host Lori Gottlieb knows a thing or two about the stories we tell ourselves. In fact, Lori opens up her life in a deeply vulnerable way, taking us into the stories she told herself as a practicing therapist and how she moved past them in her New York Times bestselling memoir Maybe You Should Talk to Someone. Lori explains that we are the narrators of our own stories, and how we talk to ourselves and tell the story of our lives shapes who we will become. She asserts that when we begin to take responsibility for our choices and allow ourselves to examine what’s working in or lives and what we can tweak a little bit, we’ll begin to let go of the feeling of being trapped—and find a power in ourselves we never knew was there.   * * * Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp | Take charge of your mental health—get 10% off your first month at https://betterhelp.com/forthelove 
We made it, you guys—we’re finally turning the corner into a brand-new year and into the hope of a fresh start. And while 2021 will no doubt have its set of challenges, we’ve set our minds to living in the moment while we wait for a post-pandemic world to settle in, thanks to inspiration from minister and activist Cece Jones-Davis. Cece was one of our favorite 2020 guests, and she’s back to lead us through a vigil on what we’ve walked through this year and reflect on all the beautiful things we have to look forward to. Cece reminds us that the weariness we feel from this year can be a powerful catalyst towards change for the better, and why 2021 can be the year of “Alive” (which happens to be the title of her brand-new worship album!). And here’s a little reminder for you, sister: as we enter a new chapter, remember that God is alive in you, and He has plans for hope and a future with your name written right on top.    * * * Thank you to our sponsors!   BetterHelp| Take charge of your mental health—get 10% off your first month at http://betterhelp.com/forthelove     Noom | Check out how to stay on a healthy track at https://noom.com/forthelove  Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Join the sisterhood! Visit www.jenhatmakerbookclub.com to sign up today.
It’s the most wonderful time of the year! But let’s be honest: if you’re a Hallmark Christmas Movie addict, it’s been the most wonderful time of the year since October, and you’re *not sorry* about it. And neither are Dan, Panda, and Bran—the 3 dudes behind the smash-hit podcast Deck the Hallmark. These Hallmark movie connoisseurs each have a different perspective: Bran loves them, Panda’s okay with them, and Dan hate-watches with all his might. Jen and the guys break down why these, let’s face it, “less than stellar production value-filled” shows are so addicting. AND are we ever surprised that the big-city girl falls for the small-town candlemaker who owns the snowy inn?! The group dishes on the best movies Hallmark has to offer (spoiler alert: The Fonz makes an appearance!), and which ones you desperately need to avoid. And to wrap this holiday episode in the most beautiful bow, the group signs off by divulging their fantasy cast and plot lines for the Hallmark movies of their dreams.    * * * Thank you to our sponsors!   Solitaire Grand Harvest | Download the app for FREE in the Apple App Store, Google Play, & Amazon   BetterHelp| Take charge of your mental health this holiday season—get 10% off your first month at http://betterhelp.com/forthelove   Noom | Check out how to stay on a healthy track at https://noom.com/forthelove
This week, we’re wrapping up our celebration of small wins amid the 2020 dumpster fire, and we’re asking ourselves two questions: where we go from here, and how do we say yes what’s ahead? Savvy businesswoman and bubbly star of TLC’s Say Yes to the Dress: Atlanta Lori Allen has said yes to many things in her life: launching and running a successful bridal boutique for 40 years, fighting breast cancer, and managing the roles of wife, mom, grandmother, and daughter of aging parents. Lori and Jen break down how to push through resistance to change and breakthrough to accept the next yes, even when we don’t know what’s ahead.    * * * Thank you to our sponsors!   ThirdLove |  Find your perfect-fitting bra, and get 10% off your first purchase at https://thirdlove.com/forthelove     Thistle Farms | Find beautiful self-care gifts that are giving back! Use code FORTHELOVE to get 15% off the whole shop at www.thistlefarms.org    Coupons.com | Get cash back for everyday items at the grocery store! Download the app for FREE today at the Apple App Store and Google Play! Rothy’s | Check out all the amazing shoes—and bags!—available right now at https://rothys.com/forthelove
“If my faith cannot offer me something in the wilderness moments, it isn’t worth having,” says Rev. Naomi Washington-Leapheart. And as we explore the silver linings of this turbulent year, Rev. Naomi’s wisdom is just what we need as we turn our thoughts to how our faith has held us up, stretched our empathy, and asked us to hold suffering and joy with both hands. As Philadelphia’s Director of the Mayor’s Office of Faith-Based and Interfaith Affairs, Rev. Naomi has spent the year trying to bring faith communities together with the goal of healing a hurting city. And for those who may not be able to see a way forward, Rev. Naomi reminds us that God is still right there, never leaving us alone. Because as she says, “we are always becoming,” meaning that even through the impossible, good can be brought out of any story—including the ones we never asked for.    * * * Thank you to our sponsors!   Rothy’s | Check out all the amazing shoes—and bags!—available right now at https://rothys.com/forthelove    Thistle Farms | Find beautiful self-care gifts that are giving back! Use code FORTHELOVE to get 15% off the whole shop at www.thistlefarms.org    Ancestry | Don’t miss special holiday pricing on truly meaningful gifts during the Holiday Sale! Head to ancestry.com/forthelove   BetterHelp | Take care of your mental health through the holidays—get 10% off your first month at http://betterhelp.com/forthelove   **GIFT GUIDE ALERT** Making your holiday gift list and checking it twice? Need more ideas for unique, useful, or doing-good gifts? Check out all the goodies on the 4th Annual Edition of Jen’s Favorite Things Holiday Gift Guide!   ➤ https://bit.ly/JensFavoriteThings2020
Joy and pain aren’t mutually exclusive; they mingle together in our stories every single day. That’s probably never been more true than in 2020. In these moments, we reach for guides who have traveled through some dark moments and come out the other side, and we couldn’t have a better teacher than writer, speaker, and self-proclaimed joyologist Dawn Barton. Pain and loss have been familiar companions to Dawn for a long time. She’s lost a baby daughter, and a sister to cancer. She’s suffered through sexual assault and walked her mother through recovery from an aneurysm, and her husband through alcohol addiction. Dawn has seen suffering, but she’s also realized that even in the middle of pain, you can experience full-fledged joy. Moments of hurt create opportunities for others to show up for us, and allow us to experience love in ways beyond what we ever thought possible (and sometimes scary times lead to hilarious ones, as Dawn found during her misadventures with a prosthetic breast named Lucky). Ultimately, our lives come full circle when we get to help someone else through their painful moments the way that others once helped us.   * * * Thank you to our sponsors! KiwiCo | Go to https://kiwico.com, and use code FORTHELOVE to get 50% off your first month of project crates, plus FREE shipping! Feetures | Head to http://feetures.com/, and use code FORTHELOVE to get $10 off your first pair of cozy Feetures socks. Honey | Sign up for free at https://joinhoney.com/FORTHELOVE, and add gifts on your Droplist for a chance to win some cash!  Duke Cannon | Find the perfect gifts for the men in your life—check out Duke Cannon’s grooming gift sets for only $20 each at Target! **GIFT GUIDE ALERT** Making your holiday gift list and checking it twice? Need more ideas for unique, useful, or doing-good gifts? Check out all the goodies on the 4th Annual Edition of Jen’s Favorite Things Holiday Gift Guide! ➤ https://bit.ly/JensFavoriteThings2020
2020 has shaken up so many of our beliefs. What’s normal? What’s safe? What does it look like for our families and our communities to thrive? These are life-changing questions, and today’s guest is someone who has been searching for the answers to these very questions for nearly two decades. Diana Oestreich was an American soldier in Iraq who received orders to keep her convoy rolling at all costs, even if children crossed her path. And in that gut-wrenching moment, Diana decided she couldn’t follow those orders, and she would fight for peace with sacrifice instead of bullets. Today Diana “wages peace” with love and justice alongside the organization Preemptive Love, and she and Jen talk about who the true heroes are, and how everything changes in our world when we choose to build bridges instead of walls.   * * * Thank you to our sponsors! FabFitFun | Order your Winter box today! Use coupon code FTL for $10 off your first box at www.fabfitfun.com #fabfitfunpartner   BetterHelp | Take care of your mental health this holiday season—get 10% off your first month at http://betterhelp.com/forthelove     Stamps.com | Need to send out those Christmas cards? Get a 4-week trial, plus FREE postage and a digital scale at https://stamps.com with code FORTHELOVE   Ancestry | So don’t miss special holiday pricing on truly meaningful gifts during the Holiday Sale! Head to ancestry.com/forthelove **GIFT GUIDE ALERT** Making your holiday gift list and checking it twice? Need more ideas for unique, useful, or doing-good gifts? Check out all the goodies on the 4th Annual Edition of Jen’s Favorite Things Holiday Gift Guide! ➤ https://bit.ly/JensFavoriteThings2020
Do you know who has a PhD in Small Wins? We do, because this week on the show we have The Lazy Genius, AKA the brilliant and delightful Kendra Adachi! Kendra is the woman who brought the Tim Riggins Salad and Change Your Life Chicken to the internet, and she is about to change our lives far beyond the fridge (though fun fact: that chicken is delicious). Kendra’s going to give us a treasure trove of pro tips, like the beauty of 17-minute naps and the stress-reducing way to clean up our kitchens (hint: zones, people—it’s all about the zones!). As a recovering perfectionist, Kendra’s learned how to strike the middle ground between “It has to be perfect!” and “Meh, I don’t care anymore.” She shows us how to care about what matters and let the rest go, because let’s be real: there’s just too much for us to care about everything. Plus, for all the Enneagram 1s and Type-As out there, Kendra reminds us that even if our plans are upended, it doesn’t mean our plans were wrong—it just means that life happened, and we’ll be okay.   And stay till the end for Jen and Kendra’s Hamilton love fest as they look around, look around at how lucky we are to be alive right now in a world with Lin Manuel-Miranda and Disney+!   * * * Thank you to our sponsors!   Solitaire Grand Harvest | Download the app for FREE in the Apple App Store, Google Play, & Amazon  Framebridge | Frame your photos and send the perfect gift! Get 15% off your first order at www.framebridge.com with code FORTHELOVE  Stamps.com | Skip the post office lines this holiday season! Get a 4-week trial, plus FREE postage and a digital scale at https://stamps.com with code FORTHELOVE Ancestry | Don’t miss special holiday pricing on truly meaningful gifts during the Holiday Sale at Ancestry! Head to ancestry.com/forthelove   **GIFT GUIDE ALERT** Making your holiday gift list and checking it twice? Need more ideas for unique, useful, or doing-good gifts? Check out all the goodies on the 4th Annual Edition of Jen’s Favorite Things Holiday Gift Guide! ➤ https://bit.ly/JensFavoriteThings2020
On the road to finding small wins, it’s helpful to watch for the “green lights” in our lives—those signals that indicate we can move forward when we see them—but also recognize and appreciate the yellows and reds that slow us down so we can take a second to absorb what life is teaching us. Academy Award-winning actor, minister of culture, and self-proclaimed pickle expert Matthew McConaughey is a man who’s had a few green lights show up over the course of his career (along with a few reds and yellows, he admits). He shares about it all in his new book, Greenlights, where he describes (in an oh-so-McConaughey way) his “sights and seens, felts and figured-outs, cools and shamefuls.” Matthew points out that green lights illuminate our way through the choices we make, and challenge us to ask some bigger questions: Are you living in the present? Are you being kind? Are you enjoying both freedom and responsibility? Matthew gives us a sneak peek into his motivation for writing Greenlights, and tells us about important women in his life who shaped and supported him all along the way.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Noom |Check out how to stay on a healthy track at https://noom.com/forthelove  BetterHelp | Take charge of your mental health—get 10% off your first month at http://betterhelp.com/forthelove   KiwiCo | Go to https://kiwico.com, and use code FORTHELOVE to get 50% off your first month of project crates, plus FREE shipping! Stamps.com | Skip the post office lines this holiday season by visiting https://stamps.com, and get a 4-week trial PLUS free postage and a digital scale with code FORTHELOVE. **Gift Guide Alert!** Making your holiday gift list and checking it twice? Need more ideas for unique, useful, or doing-good gifts? Look for Jen’s super-special annual Gift Guide Episode, popping into your feed on Monday, November 16!
Right now, we all need some small wins. And in our brand-new series called—wait for it—For the Love of Small Wins, we’re talking to thought leaders who remind us to look for the ways kindness and resilience has showed up in our lives this year. First up, author and life coach Valorie Burton knows all about something we each struggle with: guilt. She knows what it looks like, how it can disguise itself, and how ingrained it is in our daily lives. Valorie helps us identify the difference between authentic and false guilt, and walks us through the different types of guilt we experience, especially in 2020: mom/daughter/friend guilt, guilt for not doing more or better, guilt for not being involved enough in the causes happening around us. Valerie gives us the tools to begin to let go of guilt, so we can take the first step on our journey to appreciating the small wins of 2020 * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Rothy’s | Check out all the amazing shoes—and bags!—available right now at https://rothys.com/forthelove  ThirdLove | Find your perfect-fitting bra, and get 10% off your first purchase at https://thirdlove.com/forthelove   Feetures | Go to http://feetures.com/, and use code FORTHELOVE to get $10 off your first pair of Feetures **Gift Guide Alert!** Making your holiday gift list and checking it twice? Need more ideas for unique, useful, or doing-good gifts? Look for Jen’s super-special annual Gift Guide Episode, popping into your feed on Monday, November 16!
To be Black in America means living at several different intersections. Writer and thinker Marcie Alvis-Walker joins For the Love Podcast to share the inspiration behind her beautiful, thought-provoking space called Black Coffee with White Friends. Marcie shares about her experience having to code switch as she grew up—she’d have to adapt her language, her likes and dislikes based on the group she was with—and what it’s like for her family to navigate the world being members of different races. Marcie leads us to think about what it means to “celebrate” holidays like 4th of July, Memorial Day, and Columbus Day when your skin isn’t white, and how siblings of different races can use their influence to help their Black siblings.   * * * Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp | Take charge of your mental health—get 10% off your first month at http://betterhelp.com/forthelove   Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Join the sisterhood at jenhatmakerbookclub.com  FabFitFun | Use coupon code FTL for $10 off your first box at https://fabfitfun.com/ #fabfitfunpartner
Stories come in many forms: in the reports we see in the news, the TV shows and movies that light up our screens, from books to toys and so many other places. New York Times bestselling author Brit Bennett is here to discuss the ways that Black stories are told and the ripple effects they have across American culture. She shares insight into her life as a young author and how she’s used her writing as a way to figure out the way she feels about different topics—like what it means to “perform race,” which she wrote about in her latest book called The Vanishing Half. Brit dives into the stories she’s looking to create in the world—ones that show the human experience of what it means to struggle and the ways we experience hope and joy and love.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Noom | Sign up for your trial at http://noom.com/forthelove   ThirdLove | Find your perfect-fitting bra, and get 10% off your first purchase at https://thirdlove.com/forthelove  Feetures |Go to http://feetures.com/, and use code FORTHELOVE to get $10 off your first pair of Feetures
What does it mean to build the world in a way where every single person, no matter their color, gender, ability or religion has access to security and opportunity? That’s a question inventor and entrepreneur Jessica O. Matthews has spent much of her life asking. Jessica is the CEO of Uncharted Power, a company looking to build sustainable infrastructure in the world—which Jessica launched when she was just twenty-two years old! She shares the legacy of curiosity and hard work her parents passed onto her, and why having countless hmm moments leads to that one a-ha! moment. Jessica and Jen hash out the opportunities the world has left on the table of innovation and why Jessica’s place at several intersections—a Black woman who’s a dual US/Nigerian citizen—helps her recognize developments that are still possible for parts of the world that typically don’t receive investment. Because as Jessica says: “I have the ability to not see the world as it is but to see the world as it should be. That's something that would not have happened not only if I wasn't just Nigerian American, but if I wasn't a woman of color.” * * * Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp | Take charge of your mental health—get 10% off your first month at http://betterhelp.com/forthelove  KiwiCo | Get 30% off your first month plus FREE shipping on any crate line at https://kiwico.com/forthelove  “2 Hearts” movie | Mark your calendar—“2 Hearts” is in theaters only nationwide on October 16! https://2heartsthefilm.com/
Having access to learning is a portal to opportunity, a key to unlocking your dreams and leaving doors open for those who come after you. That’s what education has been for Dr. Monique Morris, an author, scholar, justice educator and die-hard Prince fan who, in sixth grade, found herself at a fork in the road. She got into a fight with a boy who’d provoked her. And instead of suspending her, expelling her, or arresting her and pushing her away, Dr. Morris’ teachers reconnected her to her learning community—a key moment in the life of a girl who’d been dealing with sexual abuse and violence in her home. This moment of restoration paved the path for Dr. Morris to go on to earn a doctorate in education. Others in Dr. Morris’ situation haven’t been as fortunate, and find their studies interrupted by disciplinary action and a descent down the slippery slope known commonly as the “school to prison pipeline,” where they are pushed out of the education experience and criminalized by administrators. Dr. Morris uses her own education and experience to advocate for Black and brown students, encouraging schools to look at themselves as places of healing and restoration, not punishment, so that more students of color can become the scholars they are meant to be. Because no person is “unrecoverable,” and the important“freedom work of education begins when teachers ultimately see themselves as healers. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Rothy’s | Check out all the amazing shoes and bags available right now at http://rothys.com/forthelove  Jenni Kayne | Get 20 percent off your first order! Go to http://jennikayne.com/, enter code FORTHELOVE at checkout. “2 Hearts” film | Only in theaters October 16! https://2heartsthefilm.com/
Cultivating a healthy mind is essential for our entire well-being. Psychologist and theologian Dr. Chanequa Walker-Barnes joins us For the Love of Black Lives series to help us unpack how the anxiety and trauma carried through generations of Black Americans affects the flourishing of communities of every stripe (and newsflash: the trauma we experience can be passed down through four generations after us). For so long, Black women have been praised as “strong,” and they absolutely are. But when we only view Black women as unshakeable “superwomen,” we take away their right to vulnerability, their right to care for themselves, and their right to be cared for by someone else. And instead, we hand them a standard that’s impossible to achieve—which, as anyone knows who’s tried to achieve something that can’t be attained, causes shame and depression. Dr. Chanequa describes the effects of living in a community where anxiety is normal for everyone. As she says, “I was never taught to think of what I had as anxiety, even though now I realize, on both sides of my family, there’s anxiety.” She explains why it’s vital for Black women and men to have access to Black mental healthcare providers, so clients can feel truly seen and heard, and receive the true care they need. And above all, Dr. Chanequa reminds us that every Black woman, child, and man is worthy of self-care. They are worthy to notice and treat their pain and anxiety, so they can flourish in wholeness.    * * * Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp | Take charge of your mental health—get 10% off your first month at http://betterhelp.com/forthelove  Laurel Springs | Register your child at laurelsprings.com/forthelove today and receive a waived registration fee Stamps.com | Start your 4-week trial, plus free postage and a digital scale without a long-term commitment! Go to stamps.com, enter FORTHELOVE
Black culture is central to American culture—we simply don’t have America without having the Black experience, born of slavery and systemic racism and white supremacy, of physical and mental and emotional pain. But through generations, Black women and men have passed down stories given from their mothers and grandmothers. They’ve cooked and sang and danced and played the most beautiful music. They’ve wrote and dreamed and created. Black culture has inspired us for hundreds of years as it has woven its way into the tapestry of American life. And today, we’re going to talk about the richness of it all with Dr. Tanisha C. Ford, a cultural critic and professor of history at CUNY. Dr. Ford shares the artists and icons that shaped her world as a young Black woman growing up (everyone from her own mother and her leather jackets, to the music of Aretha Franklin and TLC, Roberta Flack and Mary J. Blige). Dr. Ford shows us how looking deeply at culture helps us see the threads of politics and society woven within. We learn why cultural appropriation is tied to systems of exploitation. We see why we need to shift our eyes away from history books that haven’t centered important Black pioneers like Anna Julia Cooper and Ida B. Wells, why everyone needs to read words from thinkers like James Baldwin and Audre Lorde. We see how Shirley Chisholm paved the way for Kamala Harris. We see the beauty and strength of artists like Nina Simone and Billie Holiday, and how they birth artists like Alicia Keys and Janelle Monáe. And through it all we see how new forms of technology have carried Black voices to new corners of the world for decades, planing the seeds for social media to blossom into a powerful force for the change that we’re seeing today. * * *  Thank you to our sponsors! Author School | Reserve your spot today at https://authorschool.com/jenhatmaker Noom | Sign up for your trial at http://noom.com/forthelove  Jenni Kayne |  Get 20% off your first order! Go to https://jennikayne.com, promo code FORTHELOVE FabFitFun | Use coupon code FTL for $10 off your first box at https://fabfitfun.com  #fabfitfunpartner
Though many of our country’s systems of care desperately need an overhaul, there’s one system in particular that could improve greatly to help Black Americans: healthcare. It might be unimaginable that we might get lesser care, for example, if we found ourselves in a medical emergency or were giving birth to our child. But Black women and men find themselves in these situations often, where healthcare professionals aren’t listening to their needs or taking time to understand their health concerns, and this sometimes leads to disastrous consequences—even death. These healthcare gaps are part of a feedback loop where many Black Americans find themselves. Many times, it starts with a huge imbalance in economic resources, which leads to a lack of access to healthy food, gyms, nutritional education, and as our guest today says, “places that are considered well.” Christina M. Rice is a wellness expert and chief experience officer of OMNoire, a social wellness community for Black women and women of color dedicated to living well. Christina shares about her own wellness experiences as a Black woman, and how finding yoga helped her realize the need for wellness spaces where Black women and women of color feel seen and welcome. Christina describes why it’s so important for everyone to prioritize the health of Black women and men. Tackling healthcare inequity may be daunting, but siblings everywhere must speak up and do our part to amplify voices of color so that Black bodies are allowed to flourish. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Author School | Reserve your spot today at https://authorschool.com/jenhatmaker BetterHelp | Take charge of your mental health—get 10% off your first month at http://betterhelp.com/forthelove  Jen Hatmaker’s FIERCE Mask | Get yours right now at https://jenhatmaker.com/shop KiwiCo | Get 30% off your first month—plus FREE shipping on any crate line—at http://kiwico.com/forthelove
God created a beautiful world, filled with people who share love, creativity, friendship and hope in all kinds of ways. For thousands of years, some have tried to use religion to wield power and authority over people around the globe, claiming “their” way was the “right” way to gain access to God. That’s how the seeds of religious trauma are sown. And through generations, we’ve seen members of the white American Christan church push Black and brown people away from the center of the church’s stories in an attempt to gain control over those cultures. But as justice educator and equity consultant Alicia Crosby reminds us, we gain so much when we center stories that have been pushed to the margins, when we allow ourselves to be curious about ourselves and other cultures. Alicia shares her own history in the church as a Black queer woman, and how, after her “burn it all down” phase, she’s learned to embrace the beauty of who she is and how she chooses to express her faith in God’s love for her. Jen and Alicia dive into why it’s important to create protective spaces for affinity groups of all kinds (everything from parents, to race and cultural groups, to LGBTQ+ spaces), and why sitting down at the table is the most equalizing force in our universe.    * * * Thank you to our episode sponsors! Author School | Reserve your spot today at authorschool.com/jenhatmaker Rothy’s | Check out all the amazing shoes and bags available right now at rothys.com/forthelove ThirdLove | Go to thirdlove.com/forthelove to find your perfect-fitting bra, and get 15% off your first purchase!  Jen Hatmaker’s FIERCE Mask | Get yours right now at jenhatmaker.com/shop
As lawyer and activist Bryan Stevenson puts it, slavery never actually ended—it just evolved, and today it looks like mass incarceration. In the past fifty years, we’ve seen the prison population skyrocket from 200,000 in 1970 to 2.2 million in 2020. In fact, America holds just 5% of the world’s population but more than 25% of the world’s prisoners, where the Black population clock in five times the rate of inmates as the white population. It is imperative that our generation abolish the overcriminalization of Black women, children, and men. And today we’re learning a bit more from CeCe Jones-Davis on how to bring that world to fruition. She’s an activist, a worship leader, and a teacher of social gospel who’s made it her mission to expose the underbelly of the US criminal justice system as she fights for the freedom of a man she believes has been wrongfully convicted: Julius Jones. CeCe also shares the influences who showed her the way toward pursuing justice and life experiences that broke her heart and gave her a passion to advocate for others. CeCe reminds us that realigning the gears of the justice system is too big a task for one person to bear alone—but if we each pick up our small piece, it’s a load we can carry together. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Noom |Start your trial today at noom.com/forthelove Ancestry | Get your AncestryDNA kit and start your free trial at ancestry.com/fortheloveBetterHelp | Take charge of your mental health—get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove
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Comments (47)

Kelli Bolden

I'm a type 8 who lives with chronic pain/illness. Any advice?

Jul 10th
Reply

lisa smith

wow! so powerful! Thank you.

Jun 24th
Reply

Lisa Leavell

Is it just me or was the song at the end cut off?

Jun 23rd
Reply

Jenny Stevens Hamilton

oh my gosh, I cannot tell you how good it feels to hear someone say what is in my head! and the question about which one I would be for a day - absolutely also a 3 for the exact same reasons.

Jun 19th
Reply

Tammy EL

Reiss Motivational Profile is a research-based assessment that is more thorough than Enneagram. Enneagram is much like a teen magazine quiz people take to guess their personality.

May 13th
Reply

Brandy Allingham

over the moon for this!

May 12th
Reply

Susie Frei

How do I access the podcast notes? I'm interested in Max Lucado's favorite commentary author'name.

Apr 15th
Reply

Carrie Meyer Berndt

Love love love u big Jen and Beth. Such a refreshing and real conversation...would not expect anything less from these 2:)

Feb 6th
Reply

Jennifer R Miller-Laprees

I just finished her book. Actually read through it twice. It is beyond heartening to see how she responds to adversity. I needed this with all my heart. Thank you Abby.

Feb 4th
Reply

Karen Meyer

great podcast Jen!! Andy is amazing!

Jan 24th
Reply

Lesley Blackwelder

Thank you for this powerful message!

Jan 7th
Reply (1)

Jamie Gann

Wonderful. Thank you.

Jan 1st
Reply

Brandy Allingham

so good to hear from your kiddos

Sep 8th
Reply (1)

Brandy Allingham

I really appreciate you and this podcast. But, I listened to and very much respect Matt Chandler's response to the horrible circumstances at his church. I wish that we could hold people accountable while being gracious.

Aug 27th
Reply (1)

Julie

Excellent episode!

Aug 10th
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Christina Hamilton

At the 7:30 mark, the episode completely stops and I can't get it to resume. Anyone else having this issue?

May 28th
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Jen Schmailzl

I keep hearing a static clicking throughout the whole episode. I tried listening to something else to see if it was coming from my headphones and I'm not having this problem. Is anyone else having issues with the playback of this episode?

May 28th
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Christen Howard

I am almost embarrassed and ashamed that of all of the amazing podcasts I have experienced on your channel, this is the one that has me sobbing. My mother is a 5ft nothing anorexic and my father a former athlete now 400lb obese man. My daddy was voluntold not to re-enlist into his special operations job in the military when I was in high school. This was not do to any problems with job performance. He was well decorated and I missed the majority of my childhood with him while he was deployed. This "reccomendation" was due to his inability to meet the weight requirements of what was then termed "The Fat Boy Program". Both my mother and father spun out into a deep depression after his "voluntary honorable discharge" (to reiterate this was based solely on weight according to the BMI which changes almost yearly according to statistical averages with no consideration to bone mass, muscle mass or irregular girth). Our home was subsequently foreclosed on. My father began over eating and poured himself into church ministry to the point of never being home and gaining in excess of 200lbs. rendering him severely obese, diabetic, and in heart failure. My mother worked overtime, resented my father, ate even less, screamed at him for being fat and shipped my brother and I off to what she always described as her abusive parents with the intent of killing herself while we were away. Her suicide attempt failed, they got counseling and my parents marriage has survived. However, 25 years later the weight conversation continues. I always wanted to defend both of them and be like both of them and I guess I am, but not in a way that i thought could ever be pleasing to anyone. I am short like my mom (5"4 if we're being generous), but without her petite frame. In fact I have often jokingly been called man hands because I can easily palm a basketball and to this day have not met a man (including pro football players and wrestlers)with hands larger than mine. The smallest size I've ever worn was a 2 which for me is skin and bones and 145lbs. I achieved that weight in high school through anorexia and bulimia, in my early 20's through a massive,yet secret cocaine addiction. When I sobered up and married in my mid twenties I quickly began putting on weight. My grandparents never missed an opportunity to "encourage me to have weightloss surgery. I then had back to back babies between the years of 2006 and 2010. All were preeclmptic high risk pregnancies. I ballooned up to 260 and have not been able to get lower than the 200 mark since. The thing is, my daddy is and always has been my favorite person in the world, and I like the soul that has a 200lb body more than the soul with a still considered obese 150lb body. I am not sure I have ever been healthy. I used coke to stop inducing vomiting, I smoked to stop doing coke, I drank to stop being a bitch, and the only times in my life i have ever taken care of myself were when i was pregnant, but that was really for the beautiful Angel's within in me and not myself. Now , I can no longer have children, I'm still fat, I still drink and smoke to much, i refuse to return to an eating disorder or my very favorite lover cocaine, so what does this leave for me? Can I be healthy? Can I be better? Does anyone really care what I have to offer or what substance I might have to give since I'm fat?

May 14th
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Christen Howard

I tripped into you about 2 weeks ago when I stumbled across Of Mess and Moxie. I subsequently purchased 3 extra Audible credits(because who am I to pass up a good deal)and dove headlong into For The Love. I immediately began fan girl stalking you! I could not believe that there was any other person out there remotely like me. I often refer to myself as a recovering Southern Baptist. I have was ostrisized from the church for having the audacity to say things like, "listening to Renegade by Styxx on the way to Sunday School was a worshipful experience, that the term Son of God might be interpreted more fully as unique of God, and that the Bible while holy and important was not the final word. We are blessed with the holy trinity and should not turn the sculptures into an idol. God is still moving and still speaking! My love for Jesus has not waivered, but I have yet to find a body outside of this podcast that allows for the searching and questioning that the scriptures encourage. Thank you for your bravery! This 2 needs to feel accepted and not alone.

Apr 18th
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Rahel Goenner

whole is the musician that they brother refer to in the end of the show?

Apr 16th
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