#2193 - Jack Symes
#2193 - Jack Symes
14Digest
This podcast delves into the complex philosophical questions surrounding the multiverse, new atheism, and the problem of evil. The host, a self-described "agnostic atheist," challenges traditional views of God, consciousness, and the meaning of existence, exploring alternative perspectives like pantheism and panpsychism. The podcast begins by defining philosophy as a tool for understanding and navigating complex ideas, using the analogy of plumbing to illustrate how philosophy helps unclog societal conversations. It then delves into the fundamental questions that philosophy grapples with, including the existence of the universe, the fine-tuning of the laws of nature, the origin of consciousness, and the nature of morality. The host critiques the new atheism movement, arguing that its dismissal of philosophy is misguided. He highlights the role of philosophy in shaping human behavior and decision-making, even within scientific endeavors. The host suggests that new atheism's inability to address fundamental questions about meaning and ethics contributes to its decline in popularity. The podcast explores the problem of evil, a challenge for both atheism and theism. The host argues that the existence of suffering and pain in the world raises questions about the nature of a perfectly good God. He introduces pantheism, the idea that God and the universe are identical, as a potential alternative to traditional theistic views. The podcast delves into the ethics of killing and suffering, particularly in the context of hunting and factory farming. The host argues that while hunting can be a more humane way to obtain meat than factory farming, it still raises ethical questions about the value of non-human animal life. He explores the concept of hedonistic utilitarianism, which prioritizes pleasure and happiness, and its implications for animal welfare. The host criticizes the view that science can solve all problems, arguing that it ignores the complexities of human experience and the role of philosophy in shaping our understanding of the world. He highlights the limitations of scientific knowledge, particularly in relation to the vastness and mystery of the universe. The podcast examines the systemic problem of evil, which challenges the existence of a perfectly good God. The host argues that the suffering of sentient creatures throughout evolutionary history raises questions about the moral character of a creator. He explores the views of philosophers of religion who propose alternative concepts of God, such as pantheism. The host explores the concept of consciousness, suggesting that it may be an integral part of everything in the universe, not just living beings. He argues that our egocentric perspective limits our understanding of consciousness and that it may exist in forms beyond our current comprehension. The podcast examines the implications of evolution by natural selection for theism. The host argues that if God is responsible for this process, it raises questions about God's moral character, as it necessitates suffering and pain. He suggests that this may be a reason why some Christians are reluctant to accept evolution. The podcast explores the possibility that consciousness is the seed of God, suggesting that the universe is constantly evolving towards a state of greater complexity and intelligence. This is seen as a potential explanation for the existence of life and the drive towards technological advancement. The conversation delves into the concept of the absurd, arguing that the universe is indifferent to human desires for meaning and purpose. This leads to a discussion of agnosticism as a project of creating meaning and moral value in a seemingly meaningless world. The conversation explores the potential dangers of downloading consciousness into computers, raising concerns about the creation of multiple copies of individuals and the potential for abuse by dictators. This leads to a discussion of the soul and its relationship to the physical body, suggesting that consciousness may be non-local and that the soul may be an antenna for it. The conversation explores the relationship between psychedelic experiences and religious experiences, suggesting that many religious experiences may have their roots in psychedelic states. This is supported by examples like Paul's road to Damascus and Moses' encounter with the Burning Bush. The conversation discusses the risks and benefits of psychedelic drugs, acknowledging that there are both positive and negative effects. It is argued that the illegality of these drugs has hindered research and understanding, making it difficult to determine appropriate dosages and identify potential risks for individuals. The conversation emphasizes the need for nuance in the public discourse surrounding psychedelics. The speakers highlight the importance of understanding individual biology, dosage, and the potential for negative experiences, which are often underreported. The conversation delves into the complexities of free speech and its limits. The speakers discuss the harm principle, which suggests that free speech should be restricted when it directly harms others. They explore examples like shouting fire in a crowded theater and the potential for inciting violence through online speech. The conversation concludes with a discussion about the role of interviewers in public discourse. The speakers explore the ethical considerations of challenging guests' arguments and the importance of fostering a respectful and informative dialogue.
Outlines
Philosophy as a Tool for Understanding
The podcast begins with a discussion about the multiverse and new atheism. The host introduces the concept of philosophy as a tool for understanding and navigating complex ideas, using the analogy of plumbing to illustrate how philosophy helps unclog societal conversations.
The Big Questions of Philosophy
The podcast delves into the fundamental questions that philosophy grapples with, including the existence of the universe, the fine-tuning of the laws of nature, the origin of consciousness, and the nature of morality. The host emphasizes the importance of exploring these questions in the context of the multiverse and new atheism.
The Shortcomings of New Atheism
The host critiques the new atheism movement, arguing that its dismissal of philosophy is misguided. He highlights the role of philosophy in shaping human behavior and decision-making, even within scientific endeavors. The host suggests that new atheism's inability to address fundamental questions about meaning and ethics contributes to its decline in popularity.
The Problem of Evil and Pantheism
The podcast explores the problem of evil, a challenge for both atheism and theism. The host argues that the existence of suffering and pain in the world raises questions about the nature of a perfectly good God. He introduces pantheism, the idea that God and the universe are identical, as a potential alternative to traditional theistic views.
The Ethics of Killing and Suffering
The podcast delves into the ethics of killing and suffering, particularly in the context of hunting and factory farming. The host argues that while hunting can be a more humane way to obtain meat than factory farming, it still raises ethical questions about the value of non-human animal life. He explores the concept of hedonistic utilitarianism, which prioritizes pleasure and happiness, and its implications for animal welfare.
The Arrogance of Scientism
The host criticizes the view that science can solve all problems, arguing that it ignores the complexities of human experience and the role of philosophy in shaping our understanding of the world. He highlights the limitations of scientific knowledge, particularly in relation to the vastness and mystery of the universe.
The Ego and Philosophical Debates
The host discusses the role of ego in philosophical debates, noting that people often become overly attached to their views and unwilling to consider alternative perspectives. He criticizes the tendency to engage in intellectual competitions rather than seeking genuine understanding.
The Systemic Problem of Evil
The podcast examines the systemic problem of evil, which challenges the existence of a perfectly good God. The host argues that the suffering of sentient creatures throughout evolutionary history raises questions about the moral character of a creator. He explores the views of philosophers of religion who propose alternative concepts of God, such as pantheism.
Consciousness and the Universe
The host explores the concept of consciousness, suggesting that it may be an integral part of everything in the universe, not just living beings. He argues that our egocentric perspective limits our understanding of consciousness and that it may exist in forms beyond our current comprehension.
Evolution and the Problem of Evil
The podcast examines the implications of evolution by natural selection for theism. The host argues that if God is responsible for this process, it raises questions about God's moral character, as it necessitates suffering and pain. He suggests that this may be a reason why some Christians are reluctant to accept evolution.
The Problem of Evil in Nature
The discussion begins by acknowledging the existence of suffering in nature, specifically mentioning the deaths of elk at the hands of other elk and predators. The question is raised: how can this suffering be reconciled with the idea of a benevolent God?
The Role of Free Will in Suffering
The conversation explores the concept of free will in non-human animals. It is argued that many animals lack free will and act purely on instinct, making their suffering seem gratuitous. The question is posed: could God have prevented this suffering if He is all-knowing?
Human Exceptionalism and the Natural World
The discussion shifts to human beings and their unique relationship with the natural world. It is argued that humans have become increasingly separated from nature through advancements like shelter, agriculture, and cities. This separation has led to a sense of human exceptionalism, but ultimately, humans remain part of the natural world.
Agnosticism and the Search for Meaning
The conversation explores the implications of agnosticism, particularly in relation to the problem of evil and the search for meaning. It is suggested that a reasonable approach is to suspend belief in God while acknowledging the existence of suffering and actively seeking meaning in a seemingly godless world.
The Absurdity of Existence and the Project of Agnosticism
The discussion delves into the concept of the absurd, arguing that the universe is indifferent to human desires for meaning and purpose. This leads to a discussion of agnosticism as a project of creating meaning and moral value in a seemingly meaningless world.
The Dangers of Dogmatism and the Need for Open-Mindedness
The conversation highlights the dangers of dogmatism, both in religious and atheistic contexts. It is argued that both sides can be equally arrogant and that a more open-minded approach is necessary for meaningful dialogue and understanding.
The Decline of Christianity and the Need for Philosophical Defense
The discussion addresses the decline of Christianity in the United States and the UK, suggesting that a lack of philosophical defense and the rise of distorted versions of the faith are contributing factors. The conversation explores the role of figures like Jordan Peterson in attempting to revitalize Christianity.
Factory Farming Religion and the Problem of Evil
The conversation criticizes the "factory farming" version of Christianity, exemplified by televangelists who prioritize wealth and luxury over the teachings of Jesus. This is seen as a distortion of the faith and a further example of the problem of evil in the world.
The Absurdity of Existence and the Desire for Meaning
The discussion returns to the concept of the absurd, emphasizing the inherent tension between human desire for meaning and the seemingly indifferent universe. This is compared to the experience of having a parent or partner who doesn't care, highlighting the profound sense of emptiness that can result.
The Purpose of Human Existence and Technological Progress
The conversation explores the potential purpose of human existence, suggesting that it may be to create and improve technology. This is seen as a driving force behind human innovation and progress, even if it is driven by materialistic desires.
The Problem of Meaning in a Godless World
The discussion delves into the problem of meaning in a world without a pre-ordained purpose. It is argued that while the world may lack ultimate meaning, there are still moral values that can be identified and pursued, leading to a more meaningful life.
The Potential for Consciousness to be the Seed of God
The conversation explores the possibility that consciousness is the seed of God, suggesting that the universe is constantly evolving towards a state of greater complexity and intelligence. This is seen as a potential explanation for the existence of life and the drive towards technological advancement.
The Combination and Decomposition Problems of Pantheism
The discussion examines the philosophical problems associated with pantheism, specifically the combination and decomposition problems. These problems question how individual consciousnesses can combine to form a unified mind and how a unified mind can decompose into individual minds.
The Benefits of Individual Consciousness and Competition
The conversation explores the potential benefits of individual consciousness and competition in the universe. It is argued that these factors motivate activity, movement, and progress, leading to a more complex and dynamic world.
Elon Musk and the Panpsychist View of Consciousness
The conversation discusses Elon Musk's recent embrace of panpsychism, the view that consciousness is fundamental to the universe. This is seen as a potential solution to the problem of consciousness, suggesting that it is either an illusion or a fundamental property of reality.
The Imperfection of God and the Heretical Christian View
The discussion challenges the traditional Christian view of God as a perfect being, suggesting that if God is the universe, He was not perfect at the beginning of time and may not be perfect in the future. This leads to a discussion of the "heretical Christian" view, which embraces a more cosmic and evolving understanding of God.
The Individuality of Existence and the Process of Improvement
The conversation explores the concept of individuality in the universe, arguing that everything from atoms to plants and animals is an individual entity. This individuality is seen as a driving force behind evolution, natural selection, and the constant state of improvement in the universe.
The Illusion of Change and the Multiverse Theory
The discussion introduces the idea of a block universe, a concept that suggests all change and individuation is an illusion. This is linked to Zeno's paradox, which argues that motion is impossible due to the infinite divisibility of space and time. The conversation then explores the implications of the multiverse theory, which suggests that every possible physical reality exists.
The Implications of the Multiverse Theory for Agnostics and Atheists
The conversation examines the implications of the multiverse theory for agnostics and atheists, arguing that it raises serious concerns about the overall value of existence. If there are an infinite number of universes, including those with infinite suffering, it becomes difficult to maintain optimism about the world.
The Evolution of the Universe and the Potential for Improvement
The conversation explores the possibility that the universe itself is constantly evolving and improving, just like human civilization. This challenges the assumption that the universe is static and perfect, suggesting that it may be in a state of ongoing development.
The Problem of Personal Identity and the Nature of Consciousness
The discussion delves into the problem of personal identity, questioning how we can be the same person throughout time. It is argued that our capacity for conscious experience is a key factor in defining our identity, but this raises questions about the nature of consciousness and its relationship to the physical body.
The Dangers of Downloading Consciousness and the Problem of the Soul
The conversation explores the potential dangers of downloading consciousness into computers, raising concerns about the creation of multiple copies of individuals and the potential for abuse by dictators. This leads to a discussion of the soul and its relationship to the physical body, suggesting that consciousness may be non-local and that the soul may be an antenna for it.
The Motivation for Entertaining Panpsychism and the Shared Consciousness
The conversation explores the motivation for entertaining panpsychism, suggesting that it may be a way of understanding the shared consciousness that we experience in moments of community and tragedy. It is argued that while our individual biological entities have specific needs, we also share a deeper consciousness that connects us to each other.
The Relationship Between Psychedelic Experiences and Religious Experiences
The conversation explores the relationship between psychedelic experiences and religious experiences, suggesting that many religious experiences may have their roots in psychedelic states. This is supported by examples like Paul's road to Damascus and Moses' encounter with the Burning Bush.
The Validity of Different Psychedelic Experiences
The conversation discusses the validity of different psychedelic experiences, arguing that each experience is potentially valid and that negative experiences may be due to psychological factors or a lack of capacity to grasp the full implications of the experience.
The Dangers of Oversimplifying Psychedelic Experiences
The conversation highlights the dangers of oversimplifying psychedelic experiences, arguing that there are negative effects that are often overlooked or downplayed. This is compared to the discussion of free speech, where everyone supports it but disagrees on where to draw the line.
The Prevalence of Negative Religious Experiences
The conversation explores the prevalence of negative religious experiences, citing data from the Alistair Hardy Research Centre that suggests a significant number of people have had negative experiences with religion. This challenges the assumption that religious experiences are always positive and highlights the need for a more nuanced understanding of religious phenomena.
The Risks and Benefits of Psychedelic Drugs
The conversation discusses the risks and benefits of psychedelic drugs, acknowledging that there are both positive and negative effects. It is argued that the illegality of these drugs has hindered research and understanding, making it difficult to determine appropriate dosages and identify potential risks for individuals.
The Potential Risks and Benefits of Psychedelics
The conversation begins with a discussion about the potential risks and benefits of psychedelics. The speakers acknowledge that while psychedelics can have positive effects, they also carry risks, particularly for individuals with pre-existing mental health conditions or a lack of proper guidance.
The Impact of Psychedelic Legality on Research and Treatment
The speakers discuss the challenges of researching and utilizing psychedelics due to their illegal status. They highlight the recent denial of MDMA for clinical use with veterans, emphasizing the need for more research and the potential benefits of these substances for treating PTSD and other mental health conditions.
The Importance of Nuance in the Psychedelic Discourse
The conversation emphasizes the need for nuance in the public discourse surrounding psychedelics. The speakers highlight the importance of understanding individual biology, dosage, and the potential for negative experiences, which are often underreported.
The Role of Shamans and Safe Use in Psychedelic Experiences
The speakers discuss the challenges of navigating psychedelic experiences, particularly in uncontrolled environments like shamanic retreats. They raise concerns about the lack of knowledge and potential risks associated with untrained individuals guiding others through these experiences.
The Vibe of Austin vs. Los Angeles
The conversation shifts to a comparison of the vibes of Austin, Texas, and Los Angeles, California. The speakers discuss the hopeful and positive atmosphere of Austin, contrasting it with the perceived negativity and chaos of Los Angeles.
The Limits of Free Speech and the Harm Principle
The conversation delves into the complexities of free speech and its limits. The speakers discuss the harm principle, which suggests that free speech should be restricted when it directly harms others. They explore examples like shouting fire in a crowded theater and the potential for inciting violence through online speech.
The Importance of Dialogue and Platforming Diverse Perspectives
The speakers discuss the importance of engaging in dialogue with those we disagree with, even when their views are controversial. They highlight the dangers of polarization and the need to platform diverse perspectives to foster understanding and critical thinking.
Moral Responsibility and the Limits of Legislation
The conversation explores the moral responsibility of individuals and the limits of legislation in addressing harmful speech. The speakers grapple with the question of whether certain types of speech should be illegal, acknowledging the complexities of balancing free speech with the need to protect individuals and communities from harm.
The Power of Debate and Critical Thinking
The speakers emphasize the importance of debate and critical thinking in addressing controversial issues. They highlight the value of engaging in reasoned discourse, where individuals can present their arguments and challenge opposing viewpoints.
The Role of Interviewers and the Responsibility of Public Discourse
The conversation concludes with a discussion about the role of interviewers in public discourse. The speakers explore the ethical considerations of challenging guests' arguments and the importance of fostering a respectful and informative dialogue.
Keywords
Multiverse
The hypothetical existence of multiple universes, potentially with different physical laws and constants. It's a concept explored in theoretical physics and cosmology, often used to address questions about the fine-tuning of our universe for life.
New Atheism
A movement that emerged in the early 2000s, characterized by its critical stance towards religion and its emphasis on reason and science. Key figures include Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, and Christopher Hitchens.
Scientism
The view that science is the only reliable source of knowledge and that it can solve all problems, including those traditionally addressed by philosophy. It often leads to a dismissal of philosophical inquiry.
Pantheism
The belief that God and the universe are identical. It rejects the idea of a separate, personal God and sees the divine as immanent in all things.
Hedonistic Utilitarianism
A moral philosophy that prioritizes pleasure and happiness as the ultimate good. It judges actions based on their consequences, aiming to maximize overall happiness and minimize suffering.
Problem of Evil
A philosophical challenge that questions the existence of a perfectly good and omnipotent God in light of the suffering and evil that exists in the world. It raises questions about God's justice, power, and benevolence.
Factory Farming
An industrial system of raising livestock for meat production, characterized by intensive confinement, high animal density, and often inhumane conditions. It raises ethical concerns about animal welfare and environmental impact.
Animal Intelligence
The cognitive abilities of non-human animals, including their capacity for learning, problem-solving, communication, and social interaction. It challenges the traditional view of humans as the only intelligent species.
Plant Intelligence
The emerging field of research that explores the cognitive abilities of plants, including their capacity for communication, memory, and response to stimuli. It suggests that plants may be more complex and intelligent than previously thought.
Q&A
What are the main arguments against new atheism?
The host argues that new atheism's dismissal of philosophy is misguided, as philosophy plays a crucial role in shaping human behavior and decision-making, even within scientific endeavors. He also criticizes new atheism's inability to address fundamental questions about meaning and ethics, suggesting that this contributes to its decline in popularity.
What is the problem of evil and how does it challenge both atheism and theism?
The problem of evil questions the existence of a perfectly good and omnipotent God in light of the suffering and evil that exists in the world. It challenges atheism by suggesting that the universe may not be inherently benevolent and challenges theism by raising questions about God's justice, power, and benevolence.
What is pantheism and how does it offer an alternative to traditional theistic views?
Pantheism is the belief that God and the universe are identical. It rejects the idea of a separate, personal God and sees the divine as immanent in all things. It offers an alternative to traditional theistic views by proposing a concept of God that is not separate from the natural world.
What are the ethical considerations surrounding hunting and factory farming?
The host argues that while hunting can be a more humane way to obtain meat than factory farming, it still raises ethical questions about the value of non-human animal life. He explores the concept of hedonistic utilitarianism, which prioritizes pleasure and happiness, and its implications for animal welfare.
How does the concept of consciousness challenge our understanding of the universe?
The host suggests that consciousness may be an integral part of everything in the universe, not just living beings. He argues that our egocentric perspective limits our understanding of consciousness and that it may exist in forms beyond our current comprehension.
What are the implications of evolution by natural selection for theism?
The host argues that if God is responsible for evolution by natural selection, it raises questions about God's moral character, as it necessitates suffering and pain. He suggests that this may be a reason why some Christians are reluctant to accept evolution.
What is the systemic problem of evil and how does it challenge the existence of a perfectly good God?
The systemic problem of evil focuses on the inherent suffering and pain built into the natural world, questioning why a perfectly good God would create such a system. It challenges the existence of a perfectly good God by suggesting that the universe may not be designed with the well-being of sentient creatures in mind.
How does process theology offer a different perspective on God and the universe?
Process theology emphasizes the ongoing process of creation and the dynamic relationship between God and the world. It often views God as immanent in the universe and evolving alongside it. It offers a different perspective on God by suggesting that God is not static or unchanging but is actively involved in the unfolding of the universe.
How can the existence of suffering in nature be reconciled with the idea of a benevolent God?
This is a classic philosophical problem known as the problem of evil. Some argue that suffering is necessary for growth and development, while others question the existence of a benevolent God in the face of such widespread pain.
What is the role of free will in the suffering of non-human animals?
The conversation suggests that many animals lack free will and act purely on instinct, making their suffering seem gratuitous. This raises questions about whether God could have prevented this suffering if He is all-knowing.
Show Notes
Jack Symes is a public philosopher, writer, and producer of the "Panpsycast" podcast. A researcher at Durham University, he’s the author of "Defeating the Evil-God Challenge" and editor of the "Talking About Philosophy" series.
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When you have absolutely no original thoughts on anything while resorting to misrepresentation whilst happily admitting you're merely parroting what "you were told" is not being a "philosopher", it's being an ideologue.