273. What Taylor Swift can teach leaders about workplace change, with Hollywood screenwriter turned organisational psychologist, Lindsey Caplan
Digest
This podcast explores effective change management strategies, drawing parallels between Hollywood storytelling and organizational psychology. Lindsay Kaplan, a former screenwriter turned organizational psychologist, introduces the "Moved Model," emphasizing that true influence stems from emotional and behavioral engagement rather than mere information dissemination. The discussion highlights common leadership pitfalls, such as assuming buy-in and failing to personalize messages. It contrasts "push" (directive) and "pull" (collaborative) approaches, advocating for the latter to foster ownership and lasting change. Key takeaways include prioritizing affect over content, understanding the audience's motivations, and making change relevant to their needs, exemplified by strategies from Taylor Swift's Eras Tour. The ultimate goal is to "move" people, not just inform them, leading to genuine adoption of new ideas and behaviors.
Outlines
Introduction to Influencing Change and the Core Problem
Introduces Lindsay Kaplan, an organizational psychologist and former screenwriter, who posits that effective change initiatives mirror Hollywood's techniques for audience engagement. Many expensive change efforts fail due to relying on information dumps instead of emotional and behavioral engagement.
The Moved Model: Hollywood's Influence Secrets
Explores Lindsay Kaplan's "Moved Model" for influencing groups, leveraging engagement techniques from entertainment and celebrity influence. Insights from screenwriting, such as the importance of "stakes" and clear character motivation, are applied to keeping audiences engaged in change initiatives.
Group Influence vs. Communication and Informing vs. Influencing
Differentiates between influencing individuals and influencing groups, noting that group influence requires distinct skills. It also clarifies the difference between merely informing people and genuinely influencing them, which necessitates understanding motivation and emotional connection.
The Role of Emotion and Collective Influence
Emphasizes that effective change efforts, like storytelling, should begin with the desired outcome and how success will be measured. Emotion is identified as crucial for decision-making and long-term change, with the core thesis being that people change when they are "moved" by content, not just informed. Stephen Colbert's approach is used as an analogy for collective influence.
Leadership Pitfalls and the Four Types of Movement
Discusses common mistakes leaders make, such as assuming their team shares their motivation for change and failing to personalize messages. The podcast outlines four desired effects of influence: compliance, information, entertainment, and engagement, stressing the need to define the goal before strategizing.
The Moved Model Framework: Push vs. Pull and Practical Strategies
Details the Moved Model's two-by-two matrix (push vs. pull, one-size-fits-all vs. personalized) for diagnosing influence efforts. It contrasts "push" (doing things *at* people) with "pull" (doing things *with* people) and offers practical strategies for adopting a "pull" approach, such as giving ownership and soliciting feedback. Examples from concerts and corporate settings illustrate the effectiveness of "pull" for engagement.
Ownership, Transmission Gaps, and Leading Change
Lessons from Taylor Swift's Eras Tour highlight how to make audiences integral to the experience. The concepts of "transmission gap" (more content equals more change) and "ownership gap" (need for care and ownership beyond information) are explained. The crucial first step in change management is defining the desired effect. Leaders are advised to avoid starting with "I'm excited" and instead focus on the audience's needs and motivations, demonstrating empathy and personal connection to overcome resistance and drive lasting change.
Keywords
Moved Model
A framework for influencing groups by focusing on emotional and behavioral engagement, using axes like push/pull and one-size-fits-all/personalized.
Influence vs. Information
The distinction between merely providing data and creating conditions for people to care, engage, and act.
Push vs. Pull
Two approaches to influence: 'push' is directive, 'pull' is collaborative and invites participation.
Stakes (in storytelling and change)
What characters stand to lose or gain, making audiences care; in change, it's what's at stake for employees to increase motivation.
Engagement Culture
An organizational culture where employees expect buy-in and involvement, requiring a 'pull' and 'personalized' approach to influence.
Transmission Gap
The flawed assumption that increasing information leads to greater change.
Ownership Gap
The failure to recognize that care and ownership, not just information, are needed to drive change.
Emotional Engagement
The crucial role of emotion in decision-making and long-term change, moving people beyond mere information.
Q&A
What is the core difference between informing and influencing people, according to Lindsay Kaplan?
Informing is about transmitting content, while influencing is about affecting people emotionally and behaviorally so they care, engage, and act. Influencing requires understanding motivation and creating conditions for change.
Can you explain the "Moved Model" and its key components?
The Moved Model uses a two-by-two matrix with "push vs. pull" and "one-size-fits-all vs. personalized" axes to diagnose and strategize influence efforts.
What are the common mistakes leaders make when trying to implement change?
Leaders often assume their team is as motivated as they are, focus on informing rather than influencing, and use a "push" or "one-size-fits-all" approach, failing to explain *why* employees should be excited.
How can leaders shift from a "push" to a "pull" approach in change management?
Leaders can shift by giving people ownership, soliciting feedback, using central questions to create curiosity, and emphasizing that the change is being done *with* them, not *at* them.
What is the significance of "stakes" in both storytelling and organizational change?
In storytelling, stakes make audiences care about characters. In change management, identifying what's at stake for employees helps them connect emotionally and become more motivated to participate.
What is the "transmission gap" and the "ownership gap" in change management?
The transmission gap is the belief that more content equals more change. The ownership gap is the failure to recognize that care and ownership, not just information, are needed to drive change.
Show Notes
Why do so many change initiatives, town halls and big launches create excitement and then fade with no real behaviour change?
In this episode of Truth, Lies & Work, Al and Leanne speak with Lindsey Caplan, a former Hollywood screenwriter turned organisational psychologist, about why leaders struggle to influence groups at work and what actually works instead.
Lindsey shares the MOVED Model, a practical framework for driving engagement, influencing behaviour and communicating change in a way that sticks. If you lead teams, present ideas, manage projects or drive transformation, this episode explains why information alone never creates change and what does.
What you’ll learn
Why most workplace change fails
Many organisations fall into the transmission trap: the belief that more information leads to better results. More slides, more frameworks and more meetings rarely change behaviour. Real change happens when people feel involved, motivated and emotionally connected.
Informing vs influencing at work
Influencing one person is very different from influencing a group. Leaders often assume employees are already motivated and aligned, but many are neutral, cautious or distracted. Real change begins with a better question: What do we need people to do differently? Not: What do we need to tell them?
The MOVED Model explained
Lindsey’s framework maps how leaders try to influence behaviour using two key dimensions. Push vs Pull: is change being done to people or with people? Generic vs Personalised: is the message broad or relevant to individuals? These create four outcomes: compliance, awareness, entertainment and engagement. Most organisations aim for engagement but accidentally design for compliance.
What Taylor Swift can teach leaders
Great performers design experiences that involve their audience. Leaders can do the same by giving people a role in the change, creating curiosity with a central question, sharing emotion as well as expertise and showing why the change matters to employees. The message is simple: perform with people, not at people.
Practical leadership takeaways
Decide the behaviour you want before designing the message. Pull people into change instead of pushing information at them. Stop saying “I’m excited about this change” and explain why employees should be.
Resources and links
Take the MOVED Model quiz: https://www.gatheringeffect.com/quiz
Connect with Lindsey: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lindseycaplan/
Connect with Truth, Lies & Work
Website: https://truthliesandwork.com
Email: hello@truthliesandwork.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/truth-lies-and-work
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/truthlieswork
Connect with the hosts
Al Elliott: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alelliott/
Leanne Elliott: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leanneelliott/
Mental health support
UK & ROI: Samaritans – 116 123 https://www.samaritans.org
US: Suicide & Crisis Lifeline – 988 https://988lifeline.org
Australia: Lifeline – 13 11 14 https://www.lifeline.org.au
Global support: https://findahelpline.com
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