551 – Enemies to Lovers
Description
Imagine this scenario: two characters start the story fighting but end it kissing. Sounds completely implausible, right? Surely, this could never be a trope that single-handedly keeps BookTok afloat! But if you were to try writing such a story, how would you do it? This week, we’re talking about what it takes to write a successful enemies to lovers romance, which of course starts with a debate over what exactly an enemy is. This is still Mythcreants; did you think we weren’t doing sandwich discourse?
Transcript
Generously transcribed by Maddie. Volunteer to transcribe a podcast.
Chris: You are listening to the Mythcreant Podcast. With your hosts, Oren Ashkenazi, Chris Winkle, and Bunny. [Intro Music]
Chris: Welcome to the Mythcreant Podcast. I’m Chris, and with me is…
Bunny: Bunny.
Chris: And…
Oren: Oren.
Chris: I’m afraid we have a new podcast nemesis. They’re constantly making snarky jokes at our expense, which, excuse me, is our brand.
Bunny: Ah! The nerve.
Oren: We hates it.
Chris: I know, right? And these jokes, they’re really deep cut, like they’ve been listening to every episode. So clearly the only way to settle this is to challenge them to a podcast-off. Where their hosts come on our podcast and our hosts go on their podcasts. To fight. Of course. Just to fight.
Bunny: Yeah. We’ll get ’em.
Chris: Nothing else. Nothing else going on here. We don’t even like them.
Oren: Well, what else could be going on here? I don’t even know.
Bunny: We hate their guts and they hate ours, and that’s all there is to it.
Oren: That’s all it will ever be.
Bunny: We are just enemies.
Chris, Oren: [Chuckle]
Chris: It’s interesting how we managed to make podcasts into people. Look, don’t wanna make a romance joke about the actual hosts of this podcast. So that’s what we’re left with. This is what we resort to. So we’re talking about enemies to lovers.
Bunny: We have had, by this point, multiple meta podcast romances in the setups of our episodes, I believe.
Chris: It happens every time we cover romance. [Laughs]
Oren: It’s just something that needs to happen, okay? That’s just a ritual we have to perform now. Otherwise, the machine spirit will be angry.
Bunny: Yes, it’s true. It’s true.
Chris: It’s true. Podcast will take her revenge. We do not offer her proper tribute. Okay! So, enemies to lovers. So first, what are enemies?
Oren: From what I can tell, it’s when a man treats a woman like shit for 200 pages and she occasionally doesn’t like it. That’s been my experience with enemies to lovers books.
Bunny: That’s pretty mean of her. She should apologize.
Oren: She kind of went too far. I think we can all agree, right?
Bunny: Yeah.
Oren: I found out recently there’s a subgenre called “bully romance” that maybe that’s what these books should be filed under. But then I looked up more of it and apparently that subgenre generally involves a big groveling scene where the guy admits he was wrong and begs forgiveness. Which, whether you like that or not, is more than some of these supposed enemies to lovers books have. So no, they can’t be bully romances. They don’t meet that bar. They’re too far down.
Chris: So Oren is thinking about Shield of Sparrows, which I read the beginning to do a critique post that is now out, and then Oren was like, “But I have to read it. The title is so good.” And I’m like, “Oren, this is not a good book.” He’s like, “No, but the title, it calls to me.”
Bunny: Oren, the title is not even that good.
Oren: I like that title. I’m sad that that’s the book that exists, is the one that got that title.
Chris: So he got it in audio and since he had it, I was like, “All right, I guess I’m listening to it too.” So we both listened to the entire book.
Bunny: Trapped into listening to Shield of Sparrows.
Chris: And it’s advertised as enemies to lovers, but no, he’s just the biggest jerk. Then suddenly his personality changes partway through. Then he just kind of stops and then we just completely forget about it. So there’s no amends at all of any kind.
Bunny: So this is the one where she pretends she’s gonna jump off a cliff at the beginning?
Chris: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Oren: Well, no, she’s not pretending she’s gonna jump off a cliff.
Chris: She is going to. But–
Oren: The book is pretending that it’s a possible suicide, is what the book is pretending, but it’s actually just her jumping into the water, which is a thing she does regularly. So, that’s fun, I guess.
Bunny: Standing dramatically on a… cliff.
Chris: So she’s like, “What will happen? Will I fly, or will I fall?” And it’s like, you’ve done this before. Do you think something different is gonna happen than last time?
Bunny: I stand over the lap pool, goggles in hand. What if I jumped?
Chris, Oren: [Laugh]
Chris: But this book is advertised as enemies to lovers and if I’m being fair, there are a lot of blurry things. It’s pretty common in romance for the lovebirds to hate each other at first. And knowing when it goes far enough that you call it enemies to lovers can be kind of hard. I’ve been in that situation before.
But, at the same time, this is just clearly not it, because it’s not going both ways. He is mean to her for literally no reason. I suppose this is kind of spoilers for chapter three, but it’s so obvious I’m not really worried about it. But basically in the beginning, the idea is that her sister is in this elaborate arranged marriage to become the crown princess of another nation. And of course we quickly swap that so that it’s her instead.
Oren: For reasons.
Chris: And the love interest is called the “Guardian.” He eventually gets a name, but not for a very long time. Basically chose her and decided that we should play switcheroo and she clearly doesn’t like it. So then after he basically forces her to get in this arranged marriage, not just asking her dad, but pressuring her dad into it. Then he’s just really mean and resentful as though this is her fault. That just happens and she probably never fights back and he just comes and just makes a point of following her around just to insult her some more.
Bunny: Oh my gosh.
Chris: So, it’s pretty unsatisfying.
Oren: And I have read a few other books, there is supposed to be a conflict between the lovebirds and it is not equivalent. This is, I think, the most extreme I’ve ever seen it. Where it’s like, that’s weird. It’s really weird how awful he is. And then he just suddenly stops and we never talk about it again. I am happy to say that’s a bit of an outlier.
Bunny: They should have an equal number of dislike and an equal ability to
United States
