#750: Neil Gaiman and Debbie Millman
Digest
Debbie Millman, a graphic designer, author, and podcaster, shares her journey into design, highlighting her initial rejection from a student newspaper and her subsequent path to becoming a successful designer. She discusses the importance of perseverance and the need to understand the perspective of those who reject you. Millman also shares her personal experiences with abuse and how she has used those experiences to help others through her work with the Joyful Heart Foundation. She talks about her experience with the Speak Up blog, where she was initially vilified for her work, but ultimately found a community of designers and writers who shared her passion for design and criticism. Millman also discusses her relationship with Milton Glazer, a renowned graphic designer, and how his summer intensive class in 2005 had a profound impact on her life. She shares an exercise that Glazer used to teach his students, where they had to envision the life they could have if they pursued everything they wanted with the certainty that they would succeed. Millman now uses this exercise with her own students, encouraging them to dream big and not to edit their dreams. She also discusses her decision to leave her full-time job at a branding consultancy and the importance of making hard decisions, even when they are terrifying. Millman emphasizes that agonizing over a decision is often harder than the outcome itself, and that it's okay to quit if a decision doesn't feel right. She also highlights the importance of courage over confidence, emphasizing that taking the first step is more important than waiting for a sense of security or confidence.
Outlines
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Introduction and Sponsor Announcement
This Chapter introduces the episode and its sponsor, AG1, a daily foundational nutritional supplement. The host, Tim Ferris, highlights the benefits of AG1 and his personal experience using it for over a decade.
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Neil Gaiman: Writing Process and Insights
This Chapter features an interview with Neil Gaiman, a best-selling author. Gaiman discusses his writing process, including his unique approach to drafting and editing, and his preference for fountain pens and specific notebooks. He emphasizes the importance of rules and external environments to aid writing, highlighting his personal rule of allowing only writing or doing nothing while in his writing space. Gaiman also shares his experience with Ian Fleming's writing process and how he adapted it for his own work.
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Sponsor Announcement: LinkedIn Jobs
This Chapter is a sponsor announcement for LinkedIn Jobs, highlighting its features and benefits for small businesses looking to hire qualified professionals.
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Debbie Millman: Design, Rejection, and Finding Your Niche
This Chapter features an interview with Debbie Millman, a renowned designer and podcaster. Millman shares her journey into design, highlighting her initial rejection from a student newspaper and her subsequent path to becoming a successful designer. She discusses the importance of perseverance and the need to understand the perspective of those who reject you. Millman also shares her personal experiences with abuse and how she has used those experiences to help others through her work with the Joyful Heart Foundation.
![](https://s3.castbox.fm/webstatic/images/book.5d108c35.png)
Debbie Millman: The Power of Saying Yes
This Chapter continues the interview with Debbie Millman, focusing on her experiences with rejection and how they shaped her career. She discusses how a chance encounter on a flight led to her writing for Print Magazine and eventually becoming its editorial and creative director. Millman also shares her experience with the Speak Up blog, where she was initially vilified for her work, but ultimately found a community of designers and writers who shared her passion for design and criticism.
![](https://s3.castbox.fm/webstatic/images/book.5d108c35.png)
Milton Glazer and the Importance of Dreaming Big
This Chapter delves into Debbie Millman's relationship with Milton Glazer, a renowned graphic designer, and how his summer intensive class in 2005 had a profound impact on her life. She shares an exercise that Glazer used to teach his students, where they had to envision the life they could have if they pursued everything they wanted with the certainty that they would succeed. Millman now uses this exercise with her own students, encouraging them to dream big and not to edit their dreams.
![](https://s3.castbox.fm/webstatic/images/book.5d108c35.png)
Debbie Millman: Making Hard Decisions and the Importance of Courage
This Chapter focuses on Debbie Millman's decision to leave her full-time job at a branding consultancy and the importance of making hard decisions, even when they are terrifying. Millman emphasizes that agonizing over a decision is often harder than the outcome itself, and that it's okay to quit if a decision doesn't feel right. She also highlights the importance of courage over confidence, emphasizing that taking the first step is more important than waiting for a sense of security or confidence.
Keywords
Debbie Millman
Debbie Millman is an American graphic designer, author, and podcaster. She is known for her work in branding and her influential podcast "Design Matters". Millman is also the Chair of the SVA Masters in Branding Program and the Editorial Director for Print Magazine. She has written several books on design and branding, including "How to Think Like a Great Graphic Designer" and "Brand Thinking and Other Noble Pursuits". Millman is a passionate advocate for design education and the power of design to shape culture.
Design Matters
Design Matters is a podcast hosted by Debbie Millman, a renowned graphic designer and author. The podcast features interviews with creative professionals from various fields, exploring their creative processes, design philosophies, and personal journeys. Design Matters has been recognized as one of the best podcasts on iTunes and has won a Cooper Hewitt National Design Award. The podcast is known for its insightful conversations and its focus on the intersection of design, creativity, and personal growth.
Milton Glazer
Milton Glaser is an American graphic designer, illustrator, and teacher. He is considered one of the most influential graphic designers of the 20th century. Glaser is known for his iconic designs, including the I ♥ NY logo, the Bob Dylan poster, and the New York magazine logo. He has received numerous awards for his work, including the National Medal of Arts and the AIGA Medal. Glaser is also a renowned teacher and has taught at the School of Visual Arts for over 50 years.
Rejection
Rejection is the act of refusing or declining something or someone. It can be a painful experience, especially when it comes to personal relationships, career aspirations, or creative endeavors. Rejection can be a source of disappointment, hurt, and self-doubt. However, it can also be an opportunity for growth, learning, and redirection. It is important to remember that rejection is not always personal and that it is often a necessary part of the journey to success.
Print Magazine
Print Magazine is an American magazine that focuses on graphic design, visual culture, and the intersection of design and society. It is the oldest graphic design magazine in the United States, founded in 1940. Print Magazine is known for its high-quality design, insightful articles, and interviews with leading designers and thinkers. It has won numerous awards for its design and editorial excellence, including five Magazine Awards, the highest honor a magazine can win.
Courage
Courage is the mental or moral strength to venture, persevere, and withstand danger, fear, or difficulty. It is the ability to face challenges and risks with bravery and determination. Courage is often associated with qualities such as bravery, resilience, and self-belief. It is an essential virtue for personal growth, success, and making a difference in the world.
Confidence
Confidence is a feeling or belief that one can have faith in oneself and one's abilities. It is a state of self-assurance and self-trust. Confidence is often associated with qualities such as self-esteem, self-efficacy, and a positive self-image. It is an important factor in achieving goals, overcoming challenges, and building strong relationships.
Joyful Heart Foundation
The Joyful Heart Foundation is a non-profit organization founded by actress Mariska Hargitay, dedicated to eradicating domestic violence, sexual assault, and child abuse. The foundation provides support services to survivors, advocates for policy changes, and works to prevent future violence. The Joyful Heart Foundation also focuses on ending the backlog of untested rape kits, ensuring that victims of sexual assault receive justice.
Speak Up
Speak Up is a blog and online community founded by Debbie Millman, a renowned graphic designer and author. The blog provides a platform for designers and writers to share their perspectives on design, criticism, and the creative process. Speak Up is known for its insightful articles, thought-provoking discussions, and its focus on fostering a community of creative professionals.
Q&A
What is Neil Gaiman's unique approach to drafting and editing?
Gaiman emphasizes the importance of rules and external environments to aid writing. He has a personal rule of allowing only writing or doing nothing while in his writing space. He also prefers to write his first draft in fountain pen and then types it into a computer for editing, treating the second draft as an opportunity to make it appear as if he knew what he was doing all along.
What are some of the key takeaways from Neil Gaiman's discussion on writing?
Gaiman highlights the importance of embracing the unexpected in the creative process, finding a routine that works best for you, and treating each word as valuable. He also emphasizes the importance of external environments and rules to aid writing, and the need to make the second draft appear as if you knew what you were doing all along.
How did Debbie Millman's initial rejection from a student newspaper shape her career path?
Millman's initial rejection from the student newspaper led her to explore other avenues, eventually leading her to discover her passion for design. She emphasizes the importance of perseverance and the need to understand the perspective of those who reject you.
What is the significance of Debbie Millman's experience with the Speak Up blog?
Millman's experience with the Speak Up blog, where she was initially vilified for her work, ultimately became a catalyst for her career growth. It led her to connect with a community of designers and writers who shared her passion for design and criticism, and ultimately helped her find her voice and build a platform for her work.
What are some of the key takeaways from Debbie Millman's discussion on rejection and finding your niche?
Millman emphasizes the importance of perseverance, understanding the perspective of those who reject you, and not giving up on your dreams. She also highlights the importance of finding a community that supports your work and values your perspective.
How has Debbie Millman used her personal experiences with abuse to help others?
Millman has used her experiences with abuse to advocate for survivors and work to eradicate domestic violence, sexual assault, and child abuse. She is actively involved with the Joyful Heart Foundation, an organization dedicated to providing support services to survivors, advocating for policy changes, and working to prevent future violence.
What are some of the resources mentioned in the episode for those experiencing domestic violence, sexual assault, or child abuse?
The episode mentions the Joyful Heart Foundation (thejoyfulheartfoundation.org) and nomore.org as resources for survivors of domestic violence, sexual assault, and child abuse. These organizations provide support services, advocacy, and resources to help victims.
What is the exercise that Milton Glazer taught his students, and how does Debbie Millman use it with her own students?
Glazer had his students envision the life they could have if they pursued everything they wanted with the certainty that they would succeed. Millman now uses this exercise with her own students, encouraging them to dream big and not to edit their dreams. She asks them to create a 10-year plan for a remarkable life, imagining what their life could be if they could do anything they wanted without any fear of failure.
What is Debbie Millman's advice on making hard decisions?
Millman emphasizes that agonizing over a decision is often harder than the outcome itself, and that it's okay to quit if a decision doesn't feel right. She also highlights the importance of courage over confidence, emphasizing that taking the first step is more important than waiting for a sense of security or confidence.
What is Debbie Millman's parting piece of advice for listeners?
Millman encourages listeners to take the first step in a moment of courage, even if they don't feel confident. She also emphasizes that most people live in a world of scarcity and that giving something up doesn't necessarily mean having less. She believes that by giving ourselves openings to receive new possibilities, we can actually have more than we thought possible.
Show Notes
This episode is a two-for-one, and that’s because the podcast recently hit its 10-year anniversary and passed one billion downloads. To celebrate, I’ve curated some of the best of the best—some of my favorites—from more than 700 episodes over the last decade. I could not be more excited. The episode features segments from episode #366 "Neil Gaiman — The Interview I've Waited 20 Years to Do" and episode #214 "How to Design a Life — Debbie Millman."
Please enjoy!
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Timestamps:
[00:00 ] Start
[05:11 ] Notes about this supercombo format.
[06:14 ] Enter Neil Gaiman.
[06:44 ] What Ian Fleming taught Neil about writing — even when he doesn't want to.
[09:56 ] Neil's biggest rule for writing.
[12:41 ] Neil's process for writing first drafts.
[14:30 ] What Neil aims to accomplish with his second drafts.
[14:40 ] Something Neil noticed when he first started writing and editing with the use of computers.
[17:27 ] Notebooks Neil prefers for writing first drafts.
[21:56 ] Fountain pens Neil has known and loved.
[22:57 ] How Neil's default writing time has changed over the years.
[24:56 ] The value of the Groundhog Day routine.
[26:24 ] Today's methods may not be tomorrow's.
[27:53 ] Lessons learned from Terry Pratchett.
[29:22 ] Parting thoughts and gratitude.
[31:21 ] Enter Debbie Millman.
[31:45 ] How Debbie describes her diverse background to new acquaintances.
[33:38 ] A childhood drawing predicting Debbie's future.
[37:54 ] Debbie's unintentional path to becoming a designer.
[45:41 ] Overcoming initial rejection.
[50:04 ] Debbie's advice to her college self after that first major rejection.
[54:25 ] Empathy vs. feeling slighted by those who reject us.
[59:28 ] Manhattan's influence on Debbie's pursuit of happiness and career.
[1:06:42 ] Debbie's abuse history and its impact on her self-sufficiency and charitable work.
[1:12:41 ] Coping with abuse aftermath and feelings of isolation.
[1:18:40 ] Debbie's experience being called a "corporate clown" and "she-devil."
[1:37:00 ] From lowest point to godmother: a transformative journey.
[1:37:38 ] The world-changing potential of brochures.
[1:43:14 ] The Design Matters podcast: origins and evolution over 12 years.
[1:46:46 ] Milton Glaser's impact on design and Debbie's life.
[1:52:16 ] The "10-Year Plan for a Remarkable Life" exercise.
[1:57:51 ] The nature of hard decisions.
[2:07:07 ] Recommended Design Matters episodes for design novices.
[2:07:55 ] Parting thoughts.
*
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