#756: Anne Lamott and Josh Waitzkin
3Digest
This episode of The Tim Ferriss Show features two insightful conversations. The first conversation is with Anne Lamott, author of "Bird by Bird," who shares her writing philosophy, emphasizing the importance of embracing "shitty first drafts" and taming the inner critic. She also discusses the importance of radical self-care and spiritual fitness, drawing from her personal experiences with addiction and anxiety. The second conversation is with Josh Waitzkin, author of "The Art of Learning," who discusses his experience with lucid dreaming, flow states, and the importance of somatic awareness. He shares his insights on cultivating a growth mindset, embracing challenges, and the role of competition in personal development. The episode concludes with a discussion on the importance of cultivating presence, nurturing people, and fostering a love for learning.
Outlines
Introduction and Super Combo Episodes
Tim Ferris introduces the episode, celebrating the 10th anniversary of The Tim Ferris Show and surpassing one billion downloads. He announces the launch of "Super Combo Episodes," featuring curated pairings of his favorite guests from the past decade.
Anne Lamott on Writing and Perfectionism
Anne Lamott, author of "Bird by Bird," shares her writing philosophy, emphasizing the importance of "shitty first drafts" and taking things "bird by bird." She discusses the detrimental effects of perfectionism and the need to tame the inner critic.
Anne Lamott's Childhood and Radical Self-Care
Anne Lamott reflects on her childhood, describing a tense family dynamic and her role as a peacemaker. She discusses the importance of radical self-care and how it helped her overcome addiction and people-pleasing tendencies.
Anne Lamott on Spiritual Fitness
Anne Lamott defines spiritual fitness as being present in one's body and not "tripping" on fear or anxiety. She shares her personal experience with anxiety and how she uses breathing and humor to maintain spiritual well-being.
Anne Lamott's Dark Nights of the Soul
Anne Lamott shares two pivotal experiences that led her to embrace radical self-care. She describes a three-day blackout that prompted her to seek sobriety and a period of intense people-pleasing that culminated in a cathartic emotional release.
Josh Waitzkin on Lucid Dreaming and Flow
Josh Waitzkin, author of "The Art of Learning," discusses his experience with Tibetan Dream Yoga and Lucid Dreaming. He shares a cautionary tale about his recent experience with Wim Hof breathing training, which resulted in a near-fatal shallow water blackout.
Josh Waitzkin on Cultivating Flow
Josh Waitzkin explores the concept of flow, describing his personal journey from chess to martial arts and his current work training elite mental performers. He emphasizes the importance of somatic awareness and the integration of cognitive biases into intuitive processes.
Josh Waitzkin on Embracing Funk and Parenting
Josh Waitzkin discusses his approach to parenting, emphasizing the importance of listening to children, fostering a growth mindset, and encouraging a sense of agency. He believes in embracing a child's "funk" or eccentricity and building a training program that helps them express their unique talents.
Embodied Intelligence and Internal Locus of Control
This chapter explores the concept of embodied intelligence, emphasizing the importance of cultivating an internal locus of control. It uses examples of artists, performers, and investors to illustrate how external pressures can hinder success if one is not grounded in their own essence.
Stoicism and Embracing Embarrassment
This chapter delves into the role of stoicism in navigating the paradox of introspection in a public-facing life. It highlights the importance of embracing embarrassment and not being overly sensitive to criticism, using examples like deliberately wearing unconventional clothing and engaging in public Q&As while under the influence.
The Fire of Competition and Embracing Chaos
This chapter discusses the role of competition in cultivating resilience and adaptability. It uses the example of Marcelo Garcia, a renowned Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu champion, to illustrate how embracing chaos and constantly seeking exposure can lead to rapid growth and mastery.
Self-Selection and Cultivating the Transition
This chapter explores the correlation between self-selection and the ability to embrace challenges in a competitive environment. It examines how individuals who consistently seek out the toughest opponents in training may have already self-selected for that mindset, but also how others can cultivate that transition through deliberate practice and mentorship.
The Fire Walking Process: Learning from Others' Experiences
This chapter introduces the "fire walking process," a concept for cultivating the ability to learn from others' experiences with the same intensity as from one's own. It uses examples from Jiu-Jitsu and investing to illustrate how visualizing and embodying the consequences of others' mistakes can accelerate learning.
Cultivating Empathy and Somatic Knowledge
This chapter emphasizes the distinction between intellectual knowledge and somatic knowledge, highlighting the importance of cultivating empathy to deeply understand and learn from others' experiences. It discusses techniques like biofeedback training and intense visualization to create physiological responses that mirror those of the experience being studied.
The Principle of Slack and Maintaining Emptiness
This chapter explores the importance of maintaining "slack" in one's life, creating space for learning, reflection, and creative processes. It argues that prioritizing efficiency over internal work can hinder growth and emphasizes the need for selective ignorance and limiting inputs to maintain focus and potency.
The Principle of Scarcity and Essentialism
This chapter delves into the principle of scarcity, advocating for a focused and essentialist approach to learning and creation. It emphasizes the importance of deconstructing complex problems, focusing on the most essential elements, and adding resources incrementally to maintain potency.
Thematic Interconnectedness and Learning from the One
This chapter explores the concept of thematic interconnectedness, highlighting the power of finding hidden harmonies between seemingly disparate areas of life. It uses examples from surfing, investing, and education to illustrate how learning from one domain can be applied and amplified in others.
Education and Cultivating a Love for Learning
This chapter focuses on the importance of education in fostering a love for learning and helping children discover thematic interconnectedness. It discusses the Art of Learning Project, a non-profit organization that works with schools to weave principles of learning across different disciplines, breaking down silos and fostering a holistic understanding of the world.
Nurturing People and Cultivating Presence
This chapter concludes by emphasizing the importance of nurturing people and cultivating presence as a way of life. It highlights the dangers of distraction and noise in our modern world and advocates for mindfulness, stillness, and deep connection as essential for personal and societal growth.
Keywords
Anne Lamott
Author of "Bird by Bird," known for her writing philosophy emphasizing "shitty first drafts" and taming the inner critic.
Josh Waitzkin
Author of "The Art of Learning," known for his expertise in flow states, lucid dreaming, and cultivating a growth mindset.
Radical Self-Care
Prioritizing one's own well-being and needs, often in contrast to societal expectations or people-pleasing tendencies.
Spiritual Fitness
Being present in one's body and not "tripping" on fear or anxiety, achieved through practices like breathing and humor.
Flow State
A mental state of complete immersion and focus in an activity, characterized by a sense of effortless concentration, enjoyment, and time distortion.
Somatic Awareness
The ability to perceive and understand the sensations and experiences of one's body, including physical, emotional, and energetic states.
Embodied Intelligence
The ability to integrate knowledge, skills, and experiences into one's physical and emotional being, leading to a deeper understanding and more effective action.
Internal Locus of Control
A belief that one's actions and decisions are primarily responsible for their outcomes, rather than external factors.
Fire Walking Process
A method for cultivating the ability to learn from others' experiences with the same intensity as from one's own, often through visualization and embodiment of the consequences of their actions.
Thematic Interconnectedness
The recognition of underlying principles and themes that connect seemingly disparate areas of life, allowing for cross-pollination of knowledge and skills.
Q&A
What is Anne Lamott's writing philosophy, and how does she address perfectionism?
Anne Lamott advocates for embracing "shitty first drafts" and taking things "bird by bird." She believes that perfectionism is a voice of oppression that can hinder creativity and that it's essential to tame the inner critic.
What are some of the key takeaways from Anne Lamott's discussion of spiritual fitness?
Anne Lamott defines spiritual fitness as being present in one's body and not "tripping" on fear or anxiety. She emphasizes the importance of breathing, humor, and recognizing one's dual citizenship as both a spiritual being and a human with biographical details.
How did Josh Waitzkin's near-fatal shallow water blackout change his perspective on training and risk?
Josh Waitzkin's experience led him to a profound sense of gratitude and a re-evaluation of risk. He recognizes the importance of being present to one's own level of risk and the level of those around him, particularly when it comes to parenting.
What are some of the key elements of Josh Waitzkin's approach to cultivating flow?
Josh Waitzkin emphasizes the importance of somatic awareness, integrating cognitive biases into intuitive processes, and cultivating a proactive way of life. He believes that mindfulness practice and biofeedback can be valuable tools for enhancing emotional regulation and developing a deeper sense of presence.
How does Josh Waitzkin approach parenting, and what are some of the key principles he emphasizes?
Josh Waitzkin believes in listening to children, fostering a growth mindset, and encouraging a sense of agency. He emphasizes the importance of embracing a child's "funk" or eccentricity and building a training program that helps them express their unique talents.
How can we cultivate an internal locus of control and embodied intelligence?
By focusing on our own essence, developing a proactive mindset, and practicing mindfulness to become more attuned to our internal experiences.
What is the fire walking process and how can it be applied to learning?
The fire walking process involves visualizing and embodying the consequences of others' mistakes with the same intensity as if we had experienced them ourselves, accelerating learning by tapping into our physiological responses.
How can we foster thematic interconnectedness in education?
By weaving principles of learning across different disciplines, breaking down silos, and encouraging students to see the connections between seemingly disparate areas of knowledge.
What is the importance of cultivating presence in our lives?
Presence allows us to navigate the noise and distraction of our modern world, fostering deeper connections with ourselves and others, and enabling us to learn and grow more effectively.
Show Notes
This episode is a two-for-one, and that’s because the podcast recently hit its 10-year anniversary and passed one billion downloads. To celebrate, I’ve curated some of the best of the best—some of my favorites—from more than 700 episodes over the last decade. I could not be more excited. The episode features segments from episode #522 "Anne Lamott on Taming Your Inner Critic, Finding Grace, and Prayer" and #148: "Josh Waitzkin, The Prodigy Returns."
Please enjoy!
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Timestamps:
[00:00 ] Start
[04:49 ] Notes about this supercombo format.
[05:51 ] Enter Anne Lamott.
[06:21 ] What is it about Bird by Bird that has affected so many people so deeply?
[07:18 ] Where the title of Bird by Bird originated.
[09:40 ] How Neal Allen helps people tame (but not discard) their inner critic.
[10:45 ] Who controls the dial when you're tuned in to KFKD radio?
[11:51 ] How Anne recommends I pursue my fiction writing aspirations.
[12:37 ] The pros and cons of Anne's upbringing.
[19:08 ] What does being "spiritually fit" mean to Anne?
[24:40 ] How radical self-care became an imperative for Anne.
[32:25 ] The dark night that turned Anne's son Sam's life around.
[38:10 ] Enter Josh Waitzkin.
[38:43 ] On Dreaming Yourself Awake by B. Alan Wallace and Brian Hodel.
[39:58 ] Casual exercise.
[40:52 ] Josh's terrifying experience with the Wim Hof method.
[45:52 ] How Josh uses "flow" as therapy.
[48:19 ] Initiating a flow state.
[50:45 ] Cognitive biases and armchair professors.
[55:07 ] Developing high-level sensitivity and listening to your senses.
[57:53 ] Strategies for on-boarding newcomers to mindfulness training.
[1:02:40 ] Paddlesurfers in peril.
[1:03:36 ] Embracing the funk.
[1:06:03 ] On parenting.
[1:15:07 ] Fixed perspectives and growth mindsets.
[1:17:34 ] On training somatic sensitivity.
[1:22:06 ] On mitigating the dangers of a fixed identity.
[1:24:32 ] Marcelo Garcia and the principle of cultivating quality as a way of life.
[1:30:19 ] Quality and presence in parenthood.
[1:33:42 ] The fire-walking process.
[1:40:11 ] Translating techniques learned from martial arts to less obvious activities (like investing).
[1:42:19 ] Building slack into the system.
[1:46:17 ] Scarcity in the learning process.
[1:54:27 ] Josh's daily journaling process.
[1:56:25 ] Thematic interconnectedness in the context of education.
[2:04:08 ] The Art of Learning Project.
[2:05:59 ] Parting thoughts.
*
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Past guests on The Tim Ferriss Show include Jerry Seinfeld, Hugh Jackman, Dr. Jane Goodall, LeBron James, Kevin Hart, Doris Kearns Goodwin, Jamie Foxx, Matthew McConaughey, Esther Perel, Elizabeth Gilbert, Terry Crews, Sia, Yuval Noah Harari, Malcolm Gladwell, Madeleine Albright, Cheryl Strayed, Jim Collins, Mary Karr, Maria Popova, Sam Harris, Michael Phelps, Bob Iger, Edward Norton, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Neil Strauss, Ken Burns, Maria Sharapova, Marc Andreessen, Neil Gaiman, Neil de Grasse Tyson, <a href="https://tim.blog/2016/09/21/jocko-willink-on-discipline-leadership-and-overcoming-doubt/" rel="noopener norefe
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