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A Christian Nationalist Has Second Thoughts

A Christian Nationalist Has Second Thoughts

Update: 2024-10-161
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Rob Schenk, a former Christian nationalist, recounts his journey from a compassionate humanitarian to a political strategist for the movement. He describes his early life, his conversion to Christianity, and his initial involvement in helping recovering drug addicts and impoverished communities in Mexico. However, in the mid-1980s, he was drawn to the power and influence offered by the evangelical subculture, particularly as it aligned with conservative political agendas. This shift led him to embrace a more politicized form of Christianity, where he sought to shape American society through legislation and influence the Supreme Court. Schenk details his involvement with the National Pro-Life Religious Council and Operation Rescue, acknowledging the exploitation of individuals like Norma McCorvey, the "Jane Roe" of Roe v. Wade, for political gain. He reflects on the intensity of the abortion debate and the emotional manipulation used by both sides of the issue. He also describes his strategy for influencing Washington politics, including the use of the Ten Commandments as a tool for gaining access to lawmakers and crafting legislation restricting abortion, LGBTQ rights, and other issues deemed immoral by the Christian nationalist movement. Schenk explains his "Operation Higher Court," a strategy to influence Supreme Court justices through social connections and lavish entertainment. He acknowledges the success of this effort in shaping the court's conservative leanings. However, he ultimately breaks with the movement over its embrace of Donald Trump, viewing Trump as the antithesis of Christian values and expressing regret for his role in creating the conditions that led to Trump's rise. Schenk argues that the Christian nationalist movement has traded Jesus for Donald Trump, viewing Trump as a flawed vessel who delivers on their political agenda. He describes the Faustian bargain made with Trump, where political gains are exchanged for unqualified support and religious cover. He acknowledges his role in building the "ramp" that led to Trump's rise and expresses his commitment to dismantling it. He recognizes the painful reality of his past actions but remains dedicated to undoing the damage he helped create.

Outlines

00:00:00
A Former Christian Nationalist's Journey: From Compassion to Power

This chapter introduces Rob Schenk, a former Christian nationalist who has since renounced the movement. He describes his early life, his conversion to Christianity, and his initial involvement in humanitarian work, highlighting his commitment to social justice and compassion.

00:08:19
The Rise of Politicized Christianity: Power and Influence

Schenk recounts his shift towards a more politicized form of Christianity in the mid-1980s, influenced by figures like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson. He describes the allure of power and influence within the evangelical subculture and how it led him away from his earlier humanitarian work, focusing on shaping American society through legislation and influencing the Supreme Court.

00:14:16
The Exploitation of Norma McCorvey: A Case Study in Political Manipulation

Schenk discusses his involvement with the National Pro-Life Religious Council and his relationship with Norma McCorvey, the "Jane Roe" of Roe v. Wade. He acknowledges the exploitation of McCorvey by the anti-abortion movement, including the suppression of her personal life and the use of her image for political gain.

00:19:09
The Volatility of the Abortion Debate: Fear, Anger, and Manipulation

Schenk reflects on the intensity of the abortion debate and his involvement with Operation Rescue, a group known for its aggressive tactics. He acknowledges the emotional manipulation used by both sides of the issue and the role of fear and anger in mobilizing supporters.

00:22:48
A Playbook for Christian Nationalism in Washington: Influencing Lawmakers

Schenk details his strategy for influencing Washington politics, including the use of the Ten Commandments as a tool for gaining access to lawmakers. He describes his efforts to craft legislation restricting abortion, LGBTQ rights, and other issues deemed immoral by the Christian nationalist movement.

00:26:58
Operation Higher Court: Targeting the Supreme Court

Schenk explains his "Operation Higher Court," a strategy to influence Supreme Court justices through social connections and lavish entertainment. He acknowledges the success of this effort in shaping the court's conservative leanings.

Keywords

Christian Nationalism


A political ideology that seeks to fuse Christian beliefs with American national identity, often advocating for a dominant role for Christianity in public life and government.

Evangelical Subculture


A segment of American Christianity characterized by a focus on personal conversion experiences, biblical literalism, and a strong emphasis on evangelism.

Roe v. Wade


A landmark 1973 Supreme Court case that legalized abortion nationwide, sparking ongoing debate and activism on both sides of the issue.

Operation Rescue


An anti-abortion organization known for its aggressive tactics, including blockading clinics and disrupting abortion services.

Stealth Missionaries


Individuals trained to infiltrate social circles and influence decision-makers through subtle means, often used in political and religious contexts.

Faustian Bargain


A deal made with the devil, often involving the sacrifice of something valuable for immediate gain, but with potentially disastrous consequences.

Donald Trump


The 45th President of the United States, whose presidency was marked by controversy and a close relationship with the Christian nationalist movement.

Q&A

  • How did Rob Schenk's early experiences in humanitarian work shape his views on Christianity?

    Schenk's early involvement in helping recovering drug addicts and impoverished communities in Mexico instilled in him a deep commitment to social justice and a belief in the transformative power of Jesus' message of peace and compassion.

  • What factors led to Schenk's shift towards a more politicized form of Christianity?

    Schenk was drawn to the power and influence offered by the evangelical subculture, particularly as it aligned with conservative political agendas. He was attracted to the idea of shaping American society through legislation and influencing the Supreme Court.

  • How did Schenk's involvement with the National Pro-Life Religious Council and Operation Rescue contribute to the intensity of the abortion debate?

    Schenk's work with these organizations involved aggressive tactics and the exploitation of individuals like Norma McCorvey, fueling the emotional and political firestorm surrounding the abortion issue.

  • What are the key differences between Schenk's earlier understanding of Christianity and the Christian nationalist ideology he later embraced?

    Schenk's initial faith was rooted in social justice and compassion, while Christian nationalism emphasized a more conservative and politically driven approach, seeking to impose Christian values on society through law and government.

  • How does Schenk view Donald Trump's relationship with the Christian nationalist movement?

    Schenk sees Trump as a flawed vessel who delivers on the political desires of Christian nationalists, but ultimately represents a betrayal of Christian values. He believes Trump's rise is a consequence of the movement's embrace of power and its willingness to compromise its principles.

Show Notes

The Reverend Rob Schenck was once one of America’s most powerful and influential evangelical leaders. He routinely lobbied legislators to adopt a Christian conservative agenda. Members of his anti-abortion activist group barricaded the doors and driveways of abortion clinics. He even trained wealthy couples to befriend Supreme Court justices in an attempt to persuade them to render judgments that would please conservative Christians.

But along the way, Schenck began doubting where the movement was taking him—and the country. His fellow activists seemed more interested in gaining power than advancing the tenets of humility and selflessness he remembers learning about when he first converted to Christianity. By the mid-2010s, he realized that he had been forging a dangerous, divisive path, one that was leading to a new Christian nationalism with Donald Trump as its figurehead.

“I’m afraid I helped build the ramp that took Trump to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue,” he says. “And that’s a very painful reality for me.”

Schenck has since left the movement and been ostracized by some of his former fellow activists for his opposition to Trump. In this podcast extra, Schenck sits down with host Al Letson to talk about his conversion into and out of Christian conservatism and what he’s doing today to rein in the very movement he helped to build.

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A Christian Nationalist Has Second Thoughts

A Christian Nationalist Has Second Thoughts

The Center for Investigative Reporting and PRX