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Hoge & Jahns: a show about the Chicago BearsAn Inside Look at the Bears' Coordinator Hires with Broncos and Saints Experts
Hoge & Jahns: a show about the Chicago BearsAn Inside Look at the Bears' Coordinator Hires with Broncos and Saints Experts
An Inside Look at the Bears' Coordinator Hires with Broncos and Saints Experts
Update: 2025-01-30
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Larry Holder and Nick Kosmider of the Athletic join Hoge & Jahns today before the Chicago Bears coordinator presser. Tune-in as the experts discuss their opinions on the Bears latest hires.
https://youtu.be/1XZAQrhGMMo?si=a8AscIjwk3B02oNl
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C-H-G-O, it's Adam Hogue and from the Athletic, it's Adam Johns.
00:02:22
What's up, welcome in, Hogue and Johns, back with you as the Bears continue to fill out their coaching staff, Ben Johnson's first staff as a head coach.
00:02:34
Name's coming in, Johns, and uh, you know, we're scrambling to dig.
00:02:39
You're still doing research on Declan Doyle.
00:02:42
Well, this podcast should help you with your research today.
00:02:45
Well, I think whatever is out there in Declan Doyle, I've read wasn't a whole lot.
00:02:51
So got through that one pretty quick, um, which, but that's why we're going to bring some guests on in the show to learn more about these guys Nick Cosminer who covers the Broncos,
00:03:03
uh, will join us and Larry Holder who covers the Saints, both of these guys for the Athletic, of course, both of them will be on this podcast today to help us learn more about these candidates.
00:03:14
Um, but there's some other news we got to get into it as well.
00:03:18
Um, at least in terms of other coaches jumping on the staff, make sure you're following us at Adam Hogue at Adam Johns, Gary Johnson in the Athletic.
00:03:26
You can find me at all C-H-O dot com.
00:03:29
Um, last part of my coaching series went up comparing the Ben Johnson higher.
00:03:34
It's all the other hires under George McCasky's watch.
00:03:38
What a stark contrast once you do all the research and the digging.
00:03:42
So if you want to read that, you can find that at all C-H-O dot com.
00:03:45
Bears hired press Taylor passing game coordinator.
00:03:53
Our last passing game coordinator was Thomas Brown, who went from passing game coordinator to offensive coordinator to interment coach in a matter of 18 days.
00:04:03
Um, a lot of experience, more experience in Declan Doyle.
00:04:07
And I think Declan Doyle was going to oversee press Taylor.
00:04:11
Press Taylor was most recently the offensive coordinator of the Jacksonville Jaguars.
00:04:16
Yeah.
00:04:17
Press Taylor was once Declan Doyle.
00:04:20
You want to put it that way?
00:04:23
He wanted.
00:04:24
He was, he's, he's, because he's still only 37 years old.
00:04:26
I feel like he's been the league forever.
00:04:28
And he basically, uh, kind of has, I mean, he entered the league in 2013 with the Eagles.
00:04:33
Um, so, you know, you do the math on that and he was Declan Doyle.
00:04:38
He's actually even younger than Declan Doyle.
00:04:40
Well, he's basically the same age Declan Doyle has when he started getting this chance with Sean Pechogra, when he, when he was the Eagles quarterback's coach.
00:04:50
Yeah.
00:04:51
Well, I mean, he started as an, you know, QC.
00:04:54
Same thing as Declan Doyle works as well.
00:04:57
Now, yeah.
00:04:58
So he was not an offensive coordinator, though until a couple of years ago, but in his situation, um, well, I guess he was still there with Doug Peterson though.
00:05:10
So yeah, he's, he's been with Doug for a while.
00:05:14
You know, one of the Superbowl with the Eagles, um, works with quarterback.
00:05:18
So there's another quarterback voice.
00:05:21
To get in the room to work with Caleb Williams.
00:05:26
Um, that's why I kind of ask this question though.
00:05:31
De, it feels like a little redundant, doesn't it?
00:05:37
Like, did they need a passing game coordinator?
00:05:40
This is the same conversation we were having last year with like, when Maddie refluse fired Luke Getzy and pivoted to Shane Walder and all the sudden they brought in all these extra voices in the room.
00:05:51
We learned later that Thomas Brown really wasn't doing a whole lot until he had to.
00:05:57
Um, so I just found it notable that Ben Johnson decided to make this higher.
00:06:05
I imagine that Ben Johnson has more of a vision for this role than Shane Waldron had for Thomas Brown's role as passing game coordinator.
00:06:15
So passing game coordinator to my understanding, it varies from team to team just in terms of what these responsibilities are, but you're doing advanced work essentially on, well, what past concepts of yours will work against the opposition and so forth,
00:06:30
that type of work.
00:06:31
I don't think Shane Waldron used much time as Brown's work.
00:06:35
If I'm being honest, the point where Thomas Brown was your nickel back during some installs.
00:06:42
I don't think press Taylor is going to do that.
00:06:45
And I think one difference to me is that with Ben Johnson, also your head coach slash play collar, not so much the more voices, but the help is needed from Declan Doyle,
00:06:59
press Taylor from Antoine Randall out from JT Bear.
00:07:02
He's going to need the help to help with the game planning.
00:07:05
Obviously, he's going to have a major influence in how things work, especially later in the week, but he needs help early in the week.
00:07:12
That's where Taylor and Doyle come in.
00:07:13
So when I saw David Blow's name come up for this gig, I'm like, that makes sense.
00:07:20
David Blow played in Detroit under Ben Johnson.
00:07:25
And then he got into coaching there.
00:07:29
Like they they've been around each other a lot.
00:07:32
And then he ended up getting a forget about his exact job is with Washington right now, but he's he was with the commanders.
00:07:40
So I'm like, okay, that he's bringing in an extra guy he trusts that he knows and knows what he likes to do has literally played, you know, on the team that Ben Johnson was coaching.
00:07:54
I don't really see the connection with press Taylor.
00:07:59
Yeah, that's what I like about it because that's like Ben Johnson's story, right?
00:08:03
Like I wrote about this.
00:08:04
This guy, he just draws from from everywhere.
00:08:08
Like that's who Ben Johnson is.
00:08:10
He studies offense is like, well, it's his job.
00:08:13
And obviously that's a saying, but he loves to do it.
00:08:16
He loves to draw influences, plays, concepts from all different places.
00:08:21
So I think this is part of what Ben Johnson just loves to do.
00:08:25
Oh, you have some different strategies.
00:08:26
You have some different concepts we could talk about.
00:08:28
Come on in.
00:08:29
I can buy into that.
00:08:30
I can buy into that.
00:08:31
I'm just saying I think there's there's more similarities to like Waldron adding Thomas Brown to the staff where it's like, yeah, I don't know,
00:08:42
maybe a couple of months and he's like, well, actually, I don't like you what you run.
00:08:45
Yeah.
00:08:46
So when I'm writing to use that, when I was writing that story on Ben Johnson that ran just last week, I think it was last week about his influences.
00:08:54
One of the former offensive coordinators that I talked to was speaking candidly with me.
00:09:01
And he's like, well, Ben is doing is so important because he's running something different.
00:09:07
Everybody else is trying to run the same thing.
00:09:10
They're all trying to pull from the same darn tree.
00:09:13
You know how much easier that is for defensive coordinators to game plan against.
00:09:17
Yeah.
00:09:18
Ben Johnson is different because he's drawing from so many different influences.
00:09:24
He's treating his own thing.
00:09:26
It's not the McVey Shanahan tree that has spread across the league that helps defensive coordinators now catch up to it because everybody's running it.
00:09:35
Everybody's running it.
00:09:36
Now I know some things will change from town to town, but some of the core concepts are the same.
00:09:41
So to have Ben Johnson maybe sticking with what he knows works for himself.
00:09:47
I kind of like it.
00:09:49
I'm in a good mood today.
00:09:51
Okay.
00:09:51
All right.
00:09:52
I'm scarred by passing game coordinators of the pass.
00:09:56
I'm having too many cooks in the kitchen.
00:09:58
There's been one.
00:09:59
There's been two of them.
00:10:01
That man Aggie did the same thing.
00:10:02
You fire Mark Helford.
00:10:03
You brought 800 offensive coaches.
00:10:05
Where was his passing game going?
00:10:06
Yeah, you gotta remind me.
00:10:07
I don't remember.
00:10:08
Did he really have a title?
00:10:09
Well, yeah, because there was there was Bill laser was the OC.
00:10:15
And then there was all Dave Regone got the title Dave Regone.
00:10:20
And then John D.
00:10:22
Filippo was the quarterback's coach.
00:10:24
It was like what does Dave what does Regone do?
00:10:27
Like, you know, there's all of a sudden there was all these voices and that's the same thing they did last year.
00:10:34
You know, when they added all these guys and added all these titles, I don't know.
00:10:40
I think I'm anti-passing game coordinator.
00:10:42
Stop with these vague titles and no one knows what they what they mean and what they do.
00:10:48
Well, we have to ask Ben himself.
00:10:50
Okay.
00:10:50
I think a lot of it is I maybe we will because I remember asking Shane Waldron that like directly like what does Thomas Brown do?
00:11:02
And it was a vague answer about like the early work in the week.
00:11:06
Well, I'm like, well, the week doesn't end on Wednesday.
00:11:08
Like what happens?
00:11:11
Wednesday to Sunday.
00:11:12
Sunday being the most important of all days.
00:11:14
All right.
00:11:15
It's like game prep work that just hand it over.
00:11:19
And then it's like, all right.
00:11:20
Now what do I do for the rest of the week?
00:11:21
Yeah.
00:11:21
Yeah.
00:11:22
I imagine I hope for good.
00:11:24
I imagine I hope that Thomas Brown visions something different for press Taylor and even Declan Doyle because that's not a traditional offensive coordinator role.
00:11:36
I think we can all agree on that as well.
00:11:38
Well, right.
00:11:38
So I mean, yes, that's my point.
00:11:41
Ben has a lot of explaining to do here.
00:11:43
So you've got Ben Johnson at the top.
00:11:45
Antswan Randall L who is the assistant head coach and wide receivers coach.
00:11:51
Who we think outranks the OC?
00:11:55
28 year old Declan Doyle.
00:12:00
Who outranks the past?
00:12:02
Well, JT Barrett, quarterback's coach.
00:12:05
And then somewhere in there is press Taylor who has worked with Carson Wentz and Trevor Lawrence with very mixed results.
00:12:14
Am I missing anybody in there?
00:12:19
I'm talking about in terms of the quarterback trust.
00:12:22
Like I'm saying guys work on the quarterback.
00:12:25
I think that Ben Johnson is going to lean into Antwan Randall L for more organizational things in terms of like messaging, running certain meetings,
00:12:36
holding certain meetings when it comes to that assistant head coach role.
00:12:42
Now, Antswan Randall L, your receivers coach, I still think we'll probably have to answer to the organization of well Declan Doyle and then all the way up to Ben Johnson.
00:12:55
Okay.
00:12:58
Well, we'll see how it all works out.
00:13:02
I'm the thing I just keep stressing is like this is really important.
00:13:10
I just want to like let's remember these are, this is Caleb Williams.
00:13:17
You got three years here.
00:13:18
I don't think it's like if I'm going to be pessimistic about anything, like where's the offensive line coach?
00:13:28
Because that's a big one.
00:13:30
That is that is things by the end of Chris Morgan's tenure were not good.
00:13:37
I'm wondering how much influence Ryan Poles is going to have on this decision as former offensive lineman position.
00:13:46
He's he's passionate about.
00:13:48
But also what Ben Johnson wants, like who's who's the young up and coming coach to run the offensive line.
00:13:55
I don't think you need a run game coordinator.
00:13:57
I think you just need an offensive line coach, but that offensive line coach is instrumental in planning the run game.
00:14:02
Who is it?
00:14:03
It's the next most important hire.
00:14:05
Yeah.
00:14:06
Hi, Katie.
00:14:07
I gave you.
00:14:09
Oh, no, it's all good.
00:14:13
We got our guy in the cast might are joining us right now.
00:14:19
So we're going to we get we at least know a little bit about press Taylor.
00:14:24
No one knows a lot about Declan Doyle.
00:14:26
It seems.
00:14:27
So we thought we'd bring in Nick who covers the Broncos for the athletic and we bring them into the show right now.
00:14:34
You can follow them on at Twitter at Nick Cosminer.
00:14:37
What's up Nick?
00:14:39
Thanks for jumping out with us.
00:14:41
Absolutely.
00:14:41
How you guys doing?
00:14:43
We're trying to figure out who Declan Doyle is.
00:14:46
Well, you know, it's funny because when when that hiring went down, there were even, you know, a fair amount of fans, both casual and otherwise, who said, wait, who is Declan Doyle?
00:14:58
You know, because he's he's a guy a pretty anonymous figure for what was what's been a relatively anonymous group for this Broncos team the last two years.
00:15:07
They, you know, they've been near the bottom in in Titan production from a receiving standpoint.
00:15:13
And that's just much more, you know, the personnel that that's still a spot that they're very much searching for in terms of having a productive pass catcher at that position.
00:15:22
But internally, Declan Doyle is a guy who, you know, a lot of a lot.
00:15:27
I've talked to a lot of guys in that room.
00:15:29
Particularly Adam Trautman who runs with Declan Doyle with the Saints as well.
00:15:36
And says just the thing that stands out about him is just kind of the ultimate collaborator, right?
00:15:40
Both from pulling from players, pulling from other coaches.
00:15:43
He wants to see the game through the eyes of the guys in his own room.
00:15:47
And certainly, that's going to now extend to the to the offensive side of the football.
00:15:51
You know, he's one of three assistants hired former Broncos assistants hired this cycle as coordinators.
00:15:58
And so obviously, you see that Sean Peyton tree, you know, that's always been pretty significant as branching out, you know, and even a new way this off season.
00:16:08
Yeah, that coaches staffer and I was kind of getting rated right now.
00:16:12
It seems like.
00:16:13
Yeah, you had John Morton who was the pass game coordinator for the Broncos last year getting hired to be Ben Johnson's replacement in Detroit as the offensive coordinator there.
00:16:24
You know, Declan Doyle obviously going to be the OC for the Bears.
00:16:28
And then Chris Banjo, who after the Broncos let go, Ben Kattwika, the special teams coordinator shortly after the season, there was some thought internally that he might be the guy that they promote into that role.
00:16:41
He instead is going to be on Aaron Glenn's new staff with the New York Jets.
00:16:45
The Broncos also moved on from their inside linebackers coach.
00:16:48
So yeah, four vacant seas at least right now, on Denver's on Denver staff in a large part because yeah, other teams are looking around saying, hey, we want, you know, we want that kind of Sean Payton connection.
00:17:00
How would you describe maybe well, Sean's influence on a young coach in Declan Doyle still, I mean, still like a sponge soaking things up,
00:17:11
I imagine.
00:17:11
So what type of role, what type of influence was Sean on it?
00:17:15
Yeah, you know, I think a big one.
00:17:18
You know, again, when you're on his staff, it's just sort of this known thing that you're going to you're going to grind in a pretty unique way.
00:17:27
Sean is kind of a late night guy.
00:17:31
You're in that building really long hours, but again, it's a pretty collaborative process in terms of trying to find the right matchups.
00:17:40
They're very granular in terms of how they go about building game plans, trying to find every mismatch that they can, that the game planning part of that is a really big deal.
00:17:52
And so I'm sure that he has gotten the opportunity to mimic a little bit of how Sean Payton does that or will have the opportunity to mimic a little bit about how Sean Payton does that.
00:18:02
And obviously, there's the connection with Dan Campbell and Ben Johnson, Dan knowing Sean Payton so well, having a coach for him in New Orleans.
00:18:10
And so I'm sure that that connection came through within within some of those discussions.
00:18:16
But yeah, it's just one where you he's he keeps his guys around, you know, kind of as long as they can.
00:18:23
He valued continuity of a staff and and Declan Doyle has been with with with Sean Payton for, you know, five of his six NFL seasons as an assistant coach.
00:18:34
So there will be I think a lot rubbing off in terms of how he probably goes about building game plans and operating an offense.
00:18:40
Yeah, picture in Dan Campbell.
00:18:42
Don't take my assistance.
00:18:43
Go take Sean's stay away from stay away from my staff.
00:18:50
Yeah, you wonder how he's still from fun.
00:18:50
Yeah, and then steals one from Sean.
00:18:51
Yeah.
00:18:51
So you wonder, yeah, what what's going on there?
00:18:54
You know, like, you know, first first in 2023 Dan Dan beats down, you know, Sean and the Broncos on a on national television to more or less squash their playoffs.
00:19:03
And now he's he's rating his staff both for himself and for his.
00:19:06
Yeah.
00:19:07
So now I they they they have a really strong connection.
00:19:10
And so it wasn't when you once you kind of put those puzzle pieces together, it wasn't really a surprise that that kind of that group is is pulling from this Denver staff.
00:19:19
Now I got to ask you because, you know, looking at the Broncos tight ends, not the most impressive unit in terms of production and all that.
00:19:29
I mean, should that be viewed as a concern with Declan Doyle or, you know, he's not coming to the Bears to be the tight ends coach.
00:19:38
And maybe that doesn't matter as much.
00:19:40
I'm just I'm just trying to figure out how that should be factored into this.
00:19:43
Yeah.
00:19:44
You know, I I wouldn't put a lot of stock in that for a couple reasons.
00:19:47
I think the one you just mentioned is that that it's kind of like an overall offensive picture that he's going to be in charge of helping put together.
00:19:54
But also the deal with Denver's tight ends is like they they thought they had a guy in Greg Dolsich went when Sean Payton came here in 2023.
00:20:04
You know, Dolsich's first offseason program and training camp.
00:20:08
They were looking around saying this could be kind of like our joke or guy.
00:20:11
We know that Sean Payton had a lot of productive tight ends, whether it was Jimmy Graham, Jeremy Shocky, you know, Benjamin Watson, like he's had really productive tight ends during his the course of his career as an offensive coach.
00:20:23
And they thought Dolsich might be that guy for them had a really strong training camp in 2023.
00:20:29
And then right before the season started, he suffered a hamstring injury that was similar to the one he had had as a rookie in 2022 and barely played in 2023, appeared in two games dealt with that injury all year.
00:20:41
Right as he was getting over that, he had a foot injury.
00:20:44
So he came back this year in 24 and he was recovered from the injuries, got through training camp, but just never got never kind of got back to himself.
00:20:54
And so when you are missing that element of the offense, I think that speaks to their production from a past catching perspective as much as anything else.
00:21:03
They were still very involved in the game plan.
00:21:05
Like Trautman is a very solid, you know, tight end in terms of both, you know, being a run blocker, being involved in a lot of what they do offensively.
00:21:14
And you know, being still a target in moments where they really need them to be.
00:21:19
So I want to put a lot of stock into it.
00:21:22
It's much more a personal issue that Denver had versus anything schematically that wasn't happening.
00:21:27
Nick, can you take us through Bowen X's rookie season?
00:21:31
Like what worked well?
00:21:32
What didn't work well?
00:21:34
High points, low points.
00:21:36
And what do you think if there's some factors or some elements?
00:21:41
Like what do you think Declan Doyle will take from that experience to bring the Chicago?
00:21:46
Yeah, it's a great question.
00:21:47
I mean, I think number one, you start by not dropping him back 40 times.
00:21:51
That's that's initially what the Broncos were doing early in the in the season.
00:21:54
You know, a lot of those were, you know, short-screen passes extensions of the run game.
00:21:59
But, you know, I think as the season went on and Sean Payton got a lot more familiar and comfortable with what what Bowen X did best and what he, you know, what he was most comfortable with.
00:22:09
You start to really see it blossom.
00:22:11
You know, Bowen X didn't throw his first touchdown pass until week four, he ended up with 29, which is second most for a rookie in NFL history.
00:22:20
And it was really just about like adding a little bit week by week.
00:22:23
You saw the playbook for him expand.
00:22:26
You saw them, you know, doing things a little bit differently.
00:22:29
But I think the one thing that that Declan Doyle will really take from Sean Payton is just how, how adamant he is about reducing sack numbers.
00:22:38
And, and the responsibility that a quarterback has for that, you know, in Sean Payton's view, he said it a number of times like sacks or more product of what the quarterback is doing oftentimes in the offensive line.
00:22:50
Now, of course, that's not always the case.
00:22:52
But I think he'll have that kind of in his ear in terms of, okay, how do we come in here and, and make sure we're, we're, you know, boat training their quarterback, but also building the ecosystem around him that really prioritizes not taking sacks or reducing the number of sacks that we do take.
00:23:09
The Broncos cut theirs almost in half during Bowen X's first year and you saw what that did for their offense.
00:23:16
They went from about 20th and offense to 10th this past year.
00:23:20
And so I really think that, you know, that there's so much to it, but I think that in particular, there's one thing that sticks out of like, all right, how do we, how do we help bring this number down?
00:23:29
Yeah, I mean, that makes a lot of sense from, especially when you consider the difference between what Bowen X was doing in Denver this year and what Caleb Williams was doing,
00:23:39
obviously the sacks were, were a huge story.
00:23:41
So if there's a way to cut that down, that would be great.
00:23:45
What's the, how do you do?
00:23:47
Personally, how do you personally view Bowen X's season?
00:23:50
Because I mean, there's a lot of great things to take from it.
00:23:53
Broncos made the playoffs.
00:23:54
And it was quite frankly pretty surprising to see that not only Bowen X get drafted where he got drafted, but then to have the, the success he did as a rookie.
00:24:04
Yeah, I think the, the reason that it was most encouraging is the way that he improved as the season went along.
00:24:11
You know, it was, it was a very tangible elevation for him from, again, that first month of the season where you're just saying, like, man, I don't even know if he's, you know, if he's seeing it, Sean Peyton throughout that time was continuously,
00:24:22
you know, he kind of almost clapped back when anybody mentioned the word confidence and whether, whether Bowen X was, was struggling with it.
00:24:29
He said it was really, it's just a matter of he needs to see more things.
00:24:32
We're not doing good enough on third down to get to a lot of the plays that allow him to see what defenses are doing.
00:24:38
And, and really that they, he had this game against the Jets in which he threw for minus seven yards in the first half in week four.
00:24:45
Finish the game with 60 totally yards, but they had, they had a game winning drive in the third quarter, the only touchdown in the game where that he orchestrated in kind of a driving rain.
00:24:55
And you said, like, man, he just finds a way like, and that's what became kind of the story of his season was that, you know, it didn't always look pretty, but, but he, he found a way to always have them in position.
00:25:08
They, until, until their playoff game, they didn't lose a single game by, by more than seven points this year.
00:25:14
And, and so they were, they were in everything.
00:25:16
And so I think that was the most productive thing.
00:25:19
That's what are most encouraging thing.
00:25:20
That's what has, I think, fans really excited to see as he has another year under his belt.
00:25:25
Can they get some more offensive weapons around him?
00:25:28
Because that was a big issue.
00:25:29
They, they didn't run the ball as well as they needed to this past season.
00:25:32
Can they go out and get an explosive running back, be it in free agency or the draft?
00:25:37
And then tight end is another huge position that they, that they need to fill.
00:25:41
If they can get some of those things around him, I won't say skies the limit.
00:25:45
I, he doesn't, he doesn't have necessarily the same, you know, naturally talents that the Caleb Williams has or Jay Daniels has.
00:25:53
But, but certainly he's going to get the most out of what he does have.
00:25:57
And, and part of that is just going to be mastering, continuing to master Sean Payton's offense and building upon it.
00:26:03
With Doyle, how would you describe?
00:26:06
Well, his, his energy, his, his charisma at practice is he, one of the loud vocal coaches is he, like, how do you think he would handle weekly media obligations?
00:26:19
Like, how do you think he's going to handle maybe this expansive, this new expansive role for himself?
00:26:24
Yeah, it's going to be, it's going to be new, you know, that there's not a lot of media that you do as the tight ends coach, you know, outside of a couple one off interviews here and there.
00:26:35
But, but I had a, I had a staffer tell me, you know, the other day that Doyle was probably his favorite assistant coach on the staff to work with just because of just how, just how personable he is,
00:26:47
how down to earth he is, you just, you never felt like you're, you know, talking to a, to a coach.
00:26:52
He's just kind of like a, you know, just a guy.
00:26:55
And so I don't want to give an answer that I'm not necessarily qualified to give just because not knowing what, what he'll be in that scenario.
00:27:02
But, but certainly he's a guy that, that a lot of people, they're just attracted to the, you know, his personality and the way that he kind of conducts himself.
00:27:11
And again, you know, that was something that, you know, Trapman's a good, sort of vibe on on a Doyle because of the fact that he's been with him so long and just says, again, this is a guy that's going to,
00:27:21
he's going to listen to you.
00:27:23
He's going to kind of take your feedback.
00:27:25
And that's obviously an important part of a guy that's, that's helping to build an offensive gameplay.
00:27:30
Well, it'll be interesting to see exactly what his role is.
00:27:35
First of all, and, and he's actually meeting with the media today for the first time.
00:27:41
So we'll get our first Declan Doyle experience.
00:27:44
But Nick, appreciate you coming on, appreciate the insights.
00:27:47
John, you got anything else?
00:27:49
No, no, we'll see.
00:27:50
He's young.
00:27:51
He's 28 years old, 29 years old.
00:27:54
Yeah, no, it's been a, it's been a, it's been a quick rise for him.
00:27:57
And, you know, again, it's just, I think coaches, they understand what coaches go through with Sean Payton in order to like, you know, be a guy that stays on his staff that he wants to have around.
00:28:07
And so if you kind of get through his, his grinder, you know, coaches believe, okay, you, you, you can deal with whatever, you know, whether it be the hours or the demands, you know, you can get through that with Sean Payton,
00:28:18
you can, you can definitely do it at a high level.
00:28:20
So I, I think that's a big part of the reason you're seeing some of these young assistants.
00:28:25
It was the one thing I'll say is to bright, you know, a lot of us thought the first young assistant that gets hired away from his staff was going to be Davis Webb, the quarterback's coach who, you know, just, just recently finished his NFL career,
00:28:36
just got done with his second season as Denver's quarterback coach.
00:28:40
He's going to be a name to watch in terms of future offensive coordinator roles and perhaps even down the road had coaching roles.
00:28:46
But for now, he's sticking around and it's in soil getting that chance.
00:28:50
Yeah, didn't his name come up for a head coaching gig at some point or maybe just named in like one of those stories of like guys to watch or something.
00:28:58
I remember that.
00:28:58
I think there was a report that that he was going to be interviewing for the Saints head coaching job.
00:29:04
But I don't think that was accurate as far as I understand it.
00:29:07
And so I think he's just kind of, you know, look, he had, he had a great quarterback room that they probably won't be able to bring back.
00:29:15
Jared stood him in Zach Wilson, who were really, they all, I mean, they're, they and their significant others had weekly dinners.
00:29:22
They became a great group.
00:29:23
And Davis Webb was a big part of that.
00:29:25
But I think he's really eager to kind of continue to work with Bonaix and see what they can put together here too.
00:29:30
Nick Cosminer, appreciate the information.
00:29:33
Make sure you're following them at Nick Cosminer.
00:29:34
It does a great job coming to Broncos for the athletic.
00:29:36
Thanks, ma'am.
00:29:37
Thanks fellas.
00:29:37
Take care.
00:29:38
Nick, Nick.
00:29:38
So Sean Bait, Peyton.
00:29:43
I mean, yeah, I can, I can see why, you know, you're going to go, especially when you,
00:29:54
when you hear Nick talk about like just, it's almost like a Sean Payton boot camp that these guys go through, right?
00:30:01
Plus, you have the connection from Dan Campbell working with Sean Payton.
00:30:06
Obviously, even if Ben Johnson didn't work with Sean Payton, we know how these connections with coaches all work.
00:30:14
And so if you're going to be in a situation where you have to take a leap of faith and hire a coordinator that you've never worked before, which in this case, all three of them, Ben Johnson's never worked before.
00:30:25
That's going to be interesting to see that play out.
00:30:27
I could see why it's, you know, but together this way, on the flip side, Dennis Allen is a very different coordinator hire.
00:30:36
Because he is not 28 years old and he's been a head coach in the league twice.
00:30:42
So a little bit more familiarity with Dennis Allen, obviously.
00:30:47
However, to get the latest on Dennis, we're going to bring in our guy Larry Holder who covers the Saints for the athletic and he can help us fill in with, you know, what's,
00:30:57
what happened with Dennis Allen down in New Orleans?
00:31:00
Obviously, been there for a long time.
00:31:03
A lot of great defenses didn't work out as a head coach.
00:31:06
Some similarities, maybe the Maddie refluse in terms of good defensive guys that haven't worked out as head coaches.
00:31:12
Now he's the bear's defensive coordinator.
00:31:15
Larry, thanks for jumping out with us.
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00:33:47
Yeah, you got it.
00:33:50
And I will just say it's not like when Dennis Allen became a head coach that he all of a sudden stunk as a defensive coach.
00:33:58
Like so that's like there's definitely the narrative out here.
00:34:01
And it's strong in New Orleans.
00:34:03
Like Dennis Allen, you know, never had coaching material.
00:34:06
And you know, some people aren't circumstances.
00:34:09
I don't think he totally had the fair circumstances this year.
00:34:13
But I think people will just stay with him.
00:34:15
But it's not like, and you could tell even by when Dennis was let go.
00:34:20
Even General Manager Mickey Luma basically said, I didn't want to fire like he's a great coach.
00:34:26
Now is he maybe a great not a great head coach?
00:34:28
Obviously the record says no.
00:34:31
But can he coach defenses?
00:34:33
Yeah.
00:34:33
So when I saw this higher, I said, I knew Dennis Allen was going to be hired as a defensive coordinator, because he's still one of the one of the better ones in the league.
00:34:41
And it doesn't matter what his head coaching record is to me.
00:34:44
And I look, I go back with him, you know, I started covering the Saints in '06.
00:34:50
And he was on the original staff, you know, when he came with Peyton.
00:34:54
So, you know, I've seen his rise.
00:34:57
And like he, he thousand percent deserves this job.
00:35:00
And I think that's a great hire for Ben.
00:35:01
Like I think that was super smart.
00:35:03
Obviously he has some, you know, some intel like maybe he talked to Dan Campbell about him, you know, obviously didn't know they know each other well.
00:35:11
But look, I think that's to me a no brainer hire.
00:35:14
I think that's, I think the bears are going to really like and bears fans are going to really like what they see with Dennis.
00:35:19
In 2006, I'm glad you brought that up because I feel like Dennis Allen's been in New Orleans forever.
00:35:25
It just feels like well, he did hop around.
00:35:27
I mean, he was, because of course, he was through the Super Bowl.
00:35:31
Then he was defensive coordinator with Denver.
00:35:34
And then he took the Raiders job.
00:35:36
Obviously that went in the tank.
00:35:39
And then as soon as he was fired there, he basically was hired by Sean Peyton to come back to the Saints to babysit Rob Ryan.
00:35:46
And basically says Rob Ryan's going to flame out.
00:35:51
And so I've got my guy in waiting.
00:35:53
Like Dennis was so thrilled when he came back to New Orleans.
00:35:57
And then Rob was not happy whenever he talked about Dennis being around because he knew.
00:36:03
And then less than a season, less than a season in, like I think it was week 12.
00:36:07
They fired, they fired Rob.
00:36:08
And then Dennis became the guy.
00:36:10
And then all of a sudden, what do you know?
00:36:12
Saints, deep pants goes up and up and up and up and up.
00:36:15
And at the offense wasn't as big of the story as the defense was.
00:36:18
So yeah, like this, I mean, he knows what he's doing.
00:36:21
I mean, there's no question about it.
00:36:23
What are some of the staples of a Dennis Allen defense?
00:36:29
Like if you had to like boil this down, like how would you describe what it always does?
00:36:34
Well, where it always stands out, like the stats that kind of define it.
00:36:39
Like how would you describe the core tenants of what Dennis Allen wants to do?
00:36:43
Well, what he really liked doing and it's kind of gone down just as the pieces have kind of drifted away.
00:36:52
But I mean, there was obviously a premium on edge rushers.
00:36:57
And when the Saints were really good, I mean, Cam Jordan was one of the best.
00:37:01
Trey Hendrixson was a budding player.
00:37:05
And then the Saints foolishly let him walk in favor of keeping around Marcus Davenport.
00:37:10
That is like one of the most ultimate blunders right now that that's happened.
00:37:16
And they like to play a lot of aggressive man coverage in terms of that goes hand in hand when say they got Marshawn Lattimore.
00:37:27
And you know, they were able to be able to do that.
00:37:29
Now is when it's in his prime.
00:37:31
Same thing with like, you know, they would.
00:37:34
So they were able to do that pressure and lean on and look, they certainly implemented too.
00:37:39
Demario Davis was one of the best blitzers as a traditional linebacker.
00:37:45
So he, when you have, you know, a smart middle linebacker who can do a whole lot of things, they used him a lot there too.
00:37:51
So, you know, it's not like, you know, we're recreating the wheel, but they had the good pieces and then knew how to use them.
00:37:59
You know, so it's like I said, and it seems like, especially like secondary wise, I would think the bears are in really good shape.
00:38:07
So, you know, he, Dennis will probably say, all right, I can do some exotic things if I want, but, you know, ultimately, you probably doesn't want to have to do that.
00:38:17
And, you know, so that it seems like they have a good base for that to, for him to be more creative, but if he wants to be, but it, like I said, and you guys know more than me, like the bear secondary is one,
00:38:28
you know, one of the stronger units in all football.
00:38:30
I don't know if this necessarily Dennis Allen's fault, but I do think there's a connection here, at least we'd need to ask and get an answer to, but how does Zach Bond go from, you know, a special team's guy reaction.
00:38:42
Yeah, just like, how does that happen?
00:38:44
And is, I guess, is there any blame to go around for Dennis Allen?
00:38:48
Because now we're talking about, you know, an all pro who is, you know, a candidate for defensive player of the year.
00:38:55
It's amazing.
00:38:56
Because even when they drafted him and they said, Oh, we're going to use them as a traditional linebacker.
00:39:02
As I said, I don't get it.
00:39:03
He was a pass rusher at Wisconsin.
00:39:05
And he fits more of a three, four defense.
00:39:08
And the Saints never ran that.
00:39:09
It was a four three.
00:39:11
So, you know, he was miscast there.
00:39:12
And then, look, you had Demario Davis.
00:39:16
He was your primary linebacker and you had other linebackers they had.
00:39:21
It just didn't seem to fit.
00:39:23
And like, that's a blunder that obviously another.
00:39:26
I just mentioned Trey Hendrix and now Zach Bond.
00:39:29
It's like laughable.
00:39:30
How could they do that?
00:39:31
You know, how could he become that there?
00:39:35
And it kind of goes back to an Eagles, an Eagles stigma with the Saints.
00:39:40
It's like, Well, Malcolm Jenkins left and he won a Super Bowl.
00:39:43
Darren Sprouls left and went to the Eagles.
00:39:45
It's like the Eagles fleece the Saints all the time now, even with CJ Gardner Johnson.
00:39:50
But yeah, so it's that is, I don't know, but part of it is just is basically like, look, you have Demario Davis.
00:39:58
There's not many better than him.
00:40:00
Even at his age, he's still one of the better linebackers in the NFL.
00:40:04
So I think they didn't want to put that Zach Bond as a weak side linebacker.
00:40:08
And they typically, you know, they only played two linebackers these days.
00:40:12
So it just never worked.
00:40:14
And you could see it, like on the field, it just never worked.
00:40:16
And all of a sudden, you get the right, you get the right pieces and look where he is.
00:40:21
So I mean, Kudos to him because he could have just said, man, I'm not cut out for this.
00:40:26
And all of a sudden, now he's he's a finalist for the defensive player of the year.
00:40:30
If you would have said, what Zach Bond, every even start, much less be a finalist for the defensive player of the year, I'd be like, never in my entire lifetime.
00:40:38
No.
00:40:39
Larry, in Chicago, the defensive coordinator could be as much as a storyline is the head coach.
00:40:46
You mentioned Rob, Rob Ryan, Buddy Ryan, of course, everybody knows his story, Williams and a bounty scandal.
00:40:52
Trust me.
00:40:53
Oh, you know, there's a huge story.
00:40:55
Yes.
00:40:55
What like in terms of personality, like media settings, like all the above that comes with like the responsibility of running the defense,
00:41:07
you know, like the passion, the charisma, the fire, the energy, like beyond the X's and those, what's Chicago getting in Dennis Allen?
00:41:14
He's more of an even keel guy.
00:41:16
He's not a boisterous guy.
00:41:18
That's why, like when I mentioned, when Dennis came back and he's like teamed up with Rob Ryan, it's like oil and water.
00:41:24
Like what, what kind of like Dennis was Dean, like the boring guy.
00:41:28
And of course Rob with his hair and you know, obviously big belly and all this you know, you know, bluster.
00:41:33
But yeah, he's definitely more of an even keel guy.
00:41:37
And to his credit, I think he's honest when speaking publicly, you know, I've never, I've never had any real issues like you might say, oh, well,
00:41:47
I disagree with what he's saying, but you know, he's not, he's not BSing you.
00:41:51
So I think that's, that's a good thing.
00:41:53
But there's no doubt the defensive players that have played with him for the Saints for a long time.
00:41:58
Look, they trust what he's doing.
00:41:59
Like he knows what he's doing.
00:42:01
There's no, there's no doubt about that in my mind.
00:42:02
That's not like he got, like I said, it's not like he got done.
00:42:05
He knows what he's doing.
00:42:07
And it's just like, like in New Orleans, the pieces were getting older and diminishing.
00:42:12
And you did not have any offensive help to kind of overcome that.
00:42:16
So both sides of football kind of fell and it is what it is.
00:42:19
And there's a reason why the Saints, in my opinion, are still have a job opening because it's a, it's one of the least attractive jobs in terms of cap room players.
00:42:28
Like it's, it's, it's, it's, it's a rough job.
00:42:31
So if Kellin Moore takes it, which seems like that might be the case, I mean, that's, you know, I'm not, I'm not going, oh, wow, great.
00:42:40
Kellin Moore's going to be the coach.
00:42:41
He's going to be the saver now.
00:42:42
But I don't know who can.
00:42:43
So that's the thing.
00:42:44
It's like with Dennis.
00:42:46
I mean, he knows what he's doing.
00:42:47
I think part of it, he got dealt a bad hand and they underachieved and it goes hand in hand with his previous head coaching record.
00:42:55
And so now he's kind of staying there.
00:42:57
But look, when it comes to defenses, there's not many, too many people in the league, I would trust more than him, really.
00:43:03
So, you know, beyond just the defensive stuff, he's been a head coach twice.
00:43:07
I think he's got 14 years on Ben Johnson.
00:43:11
What did he do well as a head coach that you think can help, you know, a younger guy who's getting his first crack at it?
00:43:18
I think he tried to work with the pieces that he had, like personnel.
00:43:24
And, you know, so, you know, obviously he's focused on defense, Ben's on offense.
00:43:30
And, but, you know, so I think that even defensively, like he was, the defense was good enough for them to be at least in games and in a mediocre division.
00:43:43
So I think at least, you know, he was able to do that well.
00:43:47
The offensive piece is that going from dribbries to any of the quarterback that they've had to use in the last few years, I mean, it was a, was a bad proposition.
00:43:56
So, but I do think maybe, you know, like I said, I got to reiterate it because I'm sure Chicago's like Dennis Allen's tell about coach,
00:44:07
but he knows defense.
00:44:08
I mean, that's no, like that's just, that's plain and simple.
00:44:12
He does.
00:44:13
Look at the results when the Saints had their pieces were a little younger.
00:44:18
I mean, it was, look, it was one of the top units in football.
00:44:22
And in dribbries is heyday, like when his heyday, he didn't have deep answers, but back in his career for that, the defense was really helping him.
00:44:30
Like, you know, and he, and his arm was kind of fading and they had to kind of cover that up and they went a different philosophy.
00:44:38
But look, I just think that Dennis, he has a no all.
00:44:41
He's, you know, he's, he's pretty strong as in his convictions, even though publicly you might say, oh, he's, you know, he's not this most exciting guy, but look, he knows what he's doing.
00:44:52
I'm just going to keep reiterating that because a lot of people don't think that it's, it's a bad narrative.
00:44:57
And he comes with that Sean Peyton endorsement.
00:45:00
And we were just talking about that with with Nick.
00:45:04
I guess there's an extension of that.
00:45:07
I don't know what you know about Declan Doyle.
00:45:10
I think there's some overlap for it for you there a little bit.
00:45:13
Obviously young coordinator, 28, 29 years old, you know, working with with Ben Johnson, how, but like that that Sean Peyton influence for someone who's like covered,
00:45:23
like his entire career in New Orleans, like, how would you encapsulate that?
00:45:28
Like the positives and negatives and what those coaches from the Sean Peyton way of doing things that way of life.
00:45:35
Like, what do they take from that?
00:45:36
Well, don't sell that to people down here because they wanted their head coach with no ties to Sean Peyton.
00:45:41
Aaron Gland, no, he's a bum.
00:45:43
We can't, they can't have him because he has ties to Peyton.
00:45:46
I'm like, what kind of stupid talk is that?
00:45:48
But you go back to like Declan Doyle.
00:45:51
I don't really know him that well at all, but I will say when he was maybe 23, I would hear from people look out for Declan Doyle.
00:46:01
He's going to be somebody.
00:46:03
And now five years later, he's in a position to where, and it's a good spot for him because he doesn't have to be the offensive coordinator.
00:46:14
You know, we know Ben Johnson's going to be doing that.
00:46:16
Same thing is like what Sean Peyton did when Pete Carmichael was here forever, you know, Sean made the calls.
00:46:21
I think Sean has a good sense of kind of adaptability.
00:46:26
Like, you know, he, if he sees something's not working and I think he's brought that influence to the, to the people who've gotten jobs after that.
00:46:35
You know, you, you adapt to the pieces that you have and don't be so stubborn.
00:46:41
And, and so I think that's something where you look at, you know, Dan Campbell, you look at now Aaron Gland's a head coach.
00:46:48
You know, we see Dennis has had his, he was the no brain or higher here in New Orleans.
00:46:53
But like, you see some of these guys and Sean is an alpha guy.
00:46:59
I don't know how much like say as a head coach, Dennis is an alpha guy, but like Dan Campbell is an alpha guy.
00:47:07
Aaron Gland is an alpha guy.
00:47:08
Like, these are people that you, you know, you will follow.
00:47:12
And I think part of that is, is doing that.
00:47:15
And like I said, you know, it's also relating to players like Sean, maybe, you know, what, obviously we're all getting older.
00:47:25
But he still relates to players.
00:47:27
Like, I think that's part of it too.
00:47:29
And I think that's something that that you see the, you know, the coaches that he do, like that have come under that tree.
00:47:36
They've learned that.
00:47:37
And so yeah, I mean, that's the thing.
00:47:39
Like, you could see just even like assistant coaches who've gotten bigger jobs elsewhere.
00:47:42
I mean, there's, there's a reason why he's starting to have a tree like because of this.
00:47:47
And of course, he's part of the Parcel tree.
00:47:49
So he's got part of that with him.
00:47:50
But he's got, he's certainly done a long enough to have his own spin.
00:47:53
And, and I, you know, I think that, you know, and I think part of what Dennis didn't do well here in New Orleans is like, like, he's not Sean Pete, like,
00:48:03
and I think you had so much carry over in a locker room that maybe some people felt like they could, as the head guy, maybe kind of walk on them, walk on,
00:48:14
you know, walk a color and not take him a series.
00:48:16
And that wasn't the case with the defensive players.
00:48:18
Like, like, they, he has those credentials for that.
00:48:21
But the head job, not as, you know, not as alpha, not as like in your face screaming, not as all that.
00:48:28
So it's a, but yeah, I think you see some of the, the traits that, like I said, Dan Campbell, Aaron Glenn, you know, those guys, you know, they're alpha guys in what they have to do.
00:48:39
Yeah, Larry, appreciate all the insight.
00:48:43
It's great, great stuff.
00:48:45
And everybody, you know, senior writer for the athletic following you on Twitter at new gig collectibles.
00:48:52
Yeah.
00:48:52
Yes, definitely a weird change up in, like, let's see, we've been doing this for 20 years, covered either the Saints or the NFL for 19 years.
00:49:02
And now I'm covering Larry Holder, baseball card, beat writer, nice to meet you.
00:49:07
It's a weird thing.
00:49:08
But the collectibles in memory world, it's, it's wild.
00:49:12
I've been on a job for two and a half weeks full time.
00:49:15
And it is, it's wild.
00:49:16
The Paul Schien's card.
00:49:17
I mean, that's the million dollar car.
00:49:20
Yeah, we're in 11 year old hit that card in Los Angeles.
00:49:25
And it's, it's, it's, it's a wild story.
00:49:28
I don't, Larry, I don't know a whole lot about that stuff.
00:49:31
But I was, I was kind of vaguely following that story.
00:49:34
And I was like, who wants season tickets to the pirates?
00:49:38
Like, that was a, that was a no brainer.
00:49:41
Do you turn that down immediately and you keep the card?
00:49:43
I don't even think if you live in Pittsburgh and you pull that card, you can keep the seats.
00:49:48
I'll sell the card because that card's going to be a million dollar car.
00:49:51
Like, it's going to, it's going to auction.
00:49:52
It will be a million dollar card.
00:49:54
And it's, it's, it's fun.
00:49:56
And look, I look, I'm an LSU alum.
00:49:58
So, hey, Paul Schien's good stuff.
00:50:01
Good times.
00:50:02
What could this sports writer get for 27 Michael Jordan cards that are fully encased?
00:50:08
Still in great condition.
00:50:10
Some of them tip top condition.
00:50:11
How much do you think I could get for, well, with Jordan cards going back to the 90s?
00:50:18
Well, Adam, we have this thing called slack.
00:50:20
You better send me, send me the cards.
00:50:22
I recommend getting them graded.
00:50:25
Because then you know the real condition.
00:50:27
Uh, Michael Jordan is still the biggest name in all of collectibles.
00:50:33
Still bigger than anybody.
00:50:35
You name it sport.
00:50:36
Nope.
00:50:37
Still the biggest.
00:50:38
Still number one.
00:50:38
His cards are monsters.
00:50:40
So, come on.
00:50:40
You could send them over to me.
00:50:42
I'll tell them what's good.
00:50:44
We'll get a little commission.
00:50:45
You know, are you okay?
00:50:47
Yeah.
00:50:47
Yeah.
00:50:47
But my kids through college, it's, uh, that's what I'm hearing.
00:50:51
Yeah.
00:50:51
Yeah.
00:50:51
Yeah.
00:50:51
No, even, yeah, even the later cards.
00:50:53
Like, you know, so it's gotta last.
00:50:55
I get like four or five Shaquille Neal rookie cards.
00:50:58
He's, he's still, he's still selling out.
00:51:00
No one's Jordan, but Shaq is still a name.
00:51:03
But yes, uh, I would, I would recommend you bringing them to see someone who to get them graded.
00:51:08
They send them off to get them graded.
00:51:10
And then you just never know.
00:51:11
You know, you might just quit the podcast.
00:51:13
You might be a billionaire.
00:51:15
I don't know.
00:51:15
I don't know what cards you have.
00:51:16
Yeah.
00:51:17
When I had, I saw I collected cards and I have this book, just like this book, this, but you know, like, there's all these little biners that you get cards in it.
00:51:27
And it's like 100 Ryan Samard cards.
00:51:30
And when we redid our house, I cannot find it for the life of it being now.
00:51:35
And now that it's in, in, in my mind, like, he was my favorite player growing up.
00:51:39
Now I'm gonna look for it for like an hour.
00:51:41
And if I can't find it, I'm gonna be like frustrated for weeks.
00:51:43
Mine too.
00:51:44
And I'm a native New Orleansian.
00:51:45
But thank you WGN when I'm, and it's 1983 and 84.
00:51:49
And I come to my great grandparents house after preschool.
00:51:51
Guess what he's watching at 120 watching the Cubs game.
00:51:54
So guess what?
00:51:55
I'm, if I'm a fan of anything, like, which sports riders, you really can't be, but Cubs.
00:52:00
I mean, so I'm, so I'm a Cubs guy.
00:52:02
So I get, I get, I have a 83 Samard rookie that I'm like, it might only be worth 12 bucks now.
00:52:09
But, but I'm never getting rid of it.
00:52:11
Like, yes, that's, that's my, and I'm not a big collector either.
00:52:14
Actually, it's crazy.
00:52:15
My kids got back into it a year ago.
00:52:19
And they, they were into it for like two weeks.
00:52:23
And then I stayed into it and then all of a sudden we had this job.
00:52:26
And I was like, let me just see what this is.
00:52:28
So I'm, I'm certainly like, I know, you know, some cars, but I'm not, I can't, I can't rattle off all this stuff.
00:52:36
I just, I'm like, I'm basically taking like, I cover the NFL or the Saints approach to covering this.
00:52:41
And it's so far it's working.
00:52:44
Yeah.
00:52:45
Well, and you, and you pass the biggest test of coming on a Chicago podcast, let's say, no one is Jordan.
00:52:51
That's all you need to say.
00:52:53
And it, and it passes.
00:52:54
No one is Jordan, not LeBron, not, not Victor, one by Niyama, even though he's a monster in the industry right now.
00:53:01
But no, no one is Jordan.
00:53:03
Larry, thanks so much, man.
00:53:05
Appreciate it.
00:53:06
Yeah, you got it.
00:53:07
Thanks guys.
00:53:08
Hey, Larry.
00:53:09
Yeah, you know, that reminds me of, uh, uh, uh, I was thinking about this last week when Ben Johnson was talking about why he's a Cubs fan.
00:53:15
It just, it's stunning to me how the Cubs went from having this thing, this national appeal because of WGN and the fact you go wash the games everywhere to now nobody gets marked.
00:53:31
No, you can't find them.
00:53:32
And like I, I get that times change, technology changes, regional sports networks have come and now they're going and now they're trying to come back.
00:53:44
Whatever the hell's going on with CHSN.
00:53:47
But it's just like it blows my mind that you could go from this thing that you literally have fans all over the country because of it.
00:53:57
So, like, why has Ben Johnson a Cubs fan?
00:54:02
Just because he grew up in North Carolina, but he is.
00:54:04
And there's so many stories like that.
00:54:06
It's just, it's just like crazy.
00:54:07
I got to find that Ryan Sandberg behind her man.
00:54:10
Now it's going to not sound like you definitely do.
00:54:12
And, and unfortunately, that made me realize I have no idea where all my baseball cards are that I saved.
00:54:18
Now we're just on over to Larry.
00:54:20
Like, how much do you think this is worth?
00:54:23
It's a bad job.
00:54:25
It's a bad job.
00:54:26
Um, that's an interesting field.
00:54:30
I don't know really anything about it.
00:54:32
But WGN used to have a guest that would come on on radio.
00:54:35
And they would just have callers call in and they'd be like, I have this.
00:54:40
What is it worth?
00:54:41
And like, kind of like what you just did with Larry.
00:54:44
Sometimes some of the answers were just like blow you away.
00:54:48
Yeah.
00:54:48
Crazy that like antique's rocho.
00:54:52
Yeah.
00:54:52
And every now and then someone will bring something in that was like a true antique from like the Victorian era or from like, I don't know, like something the the royals had in England or whatever.
00:55:05
That's actually worth 500,000 hours.
00:55:09
I mean, that kind of makes sense.
00:55:12
It's just I get it.
00:55:14
It's just never made sense to me how like a baseball card could be worth so much money.
00:55:18
Like, I get like cars.
00:55:20
Okay, yeah.
00:55:22
Like, there's they go away and there's only a few left from like the 60s or Mustang, whatever.
00:55:29
But I guess it's the same thing with cards.
00:55:31
It just doesn't seem like it would matter.
00:55:34
It does.
00:55:35
As I always say on the show, the market's the market, John's.
00:55:37
I have a story idea for Larry.
00:55:39
He should come to house hall because there are hallways at house hall that are like a museum, just in terms of call artifacts from old bears memorabilia to old bears advertisements.
00:55:54
It's cool old newspaper clippings.
00:55:56
Some of that stuff has to be of immense value.
00:55:59
Now it's not we're going to go anywhere, but the older teams, Packers, the Cubs, they should all have like their own museums of stuff like this, because I think fans would just find it so cool,
00:56:11
so fascinating.
00:56:13
Interesting.
00:56:13
You said that because the Packers do have a museum.
00:56:15
I know they do.
00:56:16
And the bear should have a museum.
00:56:18
And maybe they would have a museum if they build an Arlington Heights.
00:56:24
Got the space for it.
00:56:26
Yeah.
00:56:27
That would be my idea for Kevin Warren and Jordan Cassi when you listen to this podcast later today.
00:56:30
Like I know you will.
00:56:32
Well, there's that idea.
00:56:32
And then there's the one I'm going to keep banging.
00:56:34
I know you support this too, is that they're going to have that huge campus.
00:56:38
They need to have a high school football field out there too.
00:56:41
No scams.
00:56:43
What some stands out there doesn't have to be a ton footprint of the bigger stadium and have like a game of the week there.
00:56:51
Every single Friday night.
00:56:53
It would be awesome.
00:56:54
Bigger host like the five eight eight eight eight state championship games.
00:56:59
Well, yeah.
00:57:00
Well, I'm just trying to start small, but yeah, if you want to make the stands big enough and you have all that space, you can have the state championships there.
00:57:07
Absolutely.
00:57:08
And that would cause a lot of grumbling downstate.
00:57:10
That's why I said five eight eight eight.
00:57:15
Oh, so gotcha.
00:57:17
Yeah.
00:57:18
Yeah, champagne can host the rest.
00:57:20
You know, no one always take you to host the rest.
00:57:22
And you know, East St.
00:57:24
Louis can travel like they always do anyway.
00:57:26
Yeah, they're traveling anyway.
00:57:28
I think I saw yesterday they're going to play at school order.
00:57:31
Well, they just they almost beat IMG this year.
00:57:34
That's right.
00:57:36
Or last year's last football.
00:57:38
Yeah.
00:57:38
All right.
00:57:39
Um, good stuff.
00:57:41
Good insight.
00:57:42
Uh, I want to end with this because we got a little sidetrack there with the collectible stuff, but just listening.
00:57:49
First of all, and, uh, end on positivity.
00:57:53
Okay.
00:57:54
We've had guests good objective sports writers that work for the athletic.
00:58:00
I'm on here.
00:58:00
For example, the day after the chase clay pool trade and say, that's a terrible trade.
00:58:07
So, um, the fact that we have, you know, a couple good writers and even that little nugget from Larry on Declan Doyle when he was 23 years old already hearing that,
00:58:19
hey, this guy's going to be something okay.
00:58:21
Like because we're not hearing any negativity.
00:58:25
That's a good thing because we have heard that before when there's moves the bears have made.
00:58:32
And we've had writers.
00:58:33
The athletic is full of great writers that come on here and they're like, I don't know about that one.
00:58:37
Uh, we have not heard that.
00:58:38
So that's good.
00:58:39
And when it comes to Dennis Allen, this isn't really controversial take, but one of the things I love about this higher johns.
00:58:46
You know, Vic Fangio had not been a head coach when he was the DC, but he, with his experience, he basically was the head coach of the defense.
00:58:57
And I think that helped Matt and Aggie a lot that first year when he was on the job for the first time.
00:59:02
We're just like, all right, this is Vic Fangio's defense.
00:59:06
I can coach the offense.
00:59:07
Yes, I have oversight because I'm the head coach, but for the most part, I'm going to let him do what he needs to do with his staff and his scheme and get the hell out of the way.
00:59:15
And I think that this is setting up for a similar situation with Ben Johnson with the big difference that I don't think anybody's going to come poach Dennis Allen.
00:59:23
He's had his two cracks at being a head coach.
00:59:26
I would be shocked if that happens again.
00:59:29
And if it does, I don't think it's going to happen next year.
00:59:32
So whereas Matt and Aggie lost Vic Fangio pretty quickly, I don't think that's going to be the case.
00:59:39
And it really, I think helps Ben Johnson.
00:59:41
Yes, head coaching duties are more on his plate, but it also takes a lot off his plate because I imagine he's going to let Dennis Allen do his thing and basically be the head coach of the defense.
00:59:53
That's case scenario.
00:59:55
This is Sean McVey Wade Phillips repeating its on.
00:59:59
Yeah, let's remember those stories back when Sean McVey got to start in LA.
01:00:05
Wade Phillips was in full control of the defense while Sean McVey built what he's built the Rams into on offense.
01:00:13
Obviously, this started with Jerrigoff.
01:00:16
There's a connection to the Lions, but Wade Phillips was fully in charge of their defense and allowed in that allowed Sean McVey to invest more of his time on that offense.
01:00:28
And obviously, he built a juggernaut for himself.
01:00:31
So to me, that's the best case scenario here.
01:00:34
Ben Johnson, more time committed to the offense.
01:00:36
Well, Dennis Allen does this thing and defense.
01:00:38
Absolutely.
01:00:40
All right.
01:00:40
Well, good show.
01:00:41
A couple great guests to give us a lot of insight.
01:00:44
And I hope everybody enjoyed it.
01:00:46
Again, please follow us at Adam Hogue at Adam John to agree.
01:00:50
John Z Larry and Nick and everybody in the athletic the athletic.com slash Hogue and Johnson.
01:00:55
For some reason, you are not subscribed already.
01:00:58
You can catch me at all CHO.com and on the C H show Bears podcast five days a week as well.
01:01:04
Super Bowl coming up next week.
01:01:06
I will be down in New Orleans with the OES huge all city extravaganza.
01:01:11
We're taking over media row.
01:01:13
Once again, uh, tons of guests already booked including a couple bears players.
01:01:20
So, um, look out for all of that.
01:01:22
I think Kevin's going to fill in for me here on Hogue and Johns.
01:01:24
Yep.
01:01:25
We'll keep lugging away.
01:01:26
Um, because it's just kind of a it's what it's become down there.
01:01:30
It's just a little too little too much nonstop action for the whole week.
01:01:34
Um, so Kevin, I think as he did last year, we'll jump on and fill in here.
01:01:38
Um, I got to kind of vacation after that too.
01:01:41
So, um, I'd be a little bit before you hear from me on this show, but I'll be back eventually.
01:01:47
Maybe get you.
01:01:48
I'm breaking 10 minute hit next week.
01:01:50
I jump on next week for a little bit.
01:01:53
Yeah.
01:01:53
Let me know when that's happening and, uh, we'll make, we'll make it work out.
01:01:58
Uh, it is always fun being at Super Bowl and it's in New Orleans.
01:02:01
We were just talking to Larry.
01:02:02
Maybe I'll stop by.
01:02:03
Maybe I'll bring some of my memorabilia down there and have him grade it or whatever he was talking about.
01:02:08
Look at it.
01:02:09
He's got some fun stories coming up.
01:02:11
I'm excited for him.
01:02:12
He's got a, uh, just we'll stay tuned.
01:02:14
If you're into that stuff, they have picture interests when you're listening to Larry.
01:02:18
He's got some cool stories coming up for the athletic.
01:02:20
Yeah.
01:02:20
All right.
01:02:21
We're out of here.
01:02:22
John Zee and Kevin and maybe me.
01:02:25
We'll talk to you next week.
01:02:33
See ya.
01:02:37
Um, do your research.
01:02:37
It's the final week of the transfer window.
01:02:39
And that sound you can hear is David Aunstein's phone blowing up.
01:02:43
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And you can join me, David and our esteemed reporters every day on the athletic FC podcast as we leave no stone unturned on picking every major deal.
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