This week, Mark Leonard is joined by Jana Kobzova, ECFR senior policy fellow, and Camille Grand, ECFR distinguished policy fellow, to discuss ECFR’s new European Security Programme and the war in Ukraine. They take a “beyond the horizon” view of the war, considering what Europe’s medium- and long-term strategy towards Ukraine should look like. This links directly to the new programme’s mission, which was created as a response to the short-term thinking which characterises perspectives on the Russia-Ukraine war—and European security more broadly.  

How might the conflict between Russia and Ukraine evolve over the coming months? What role is the US playing in this trajectory? And what kind of security environment can Europeans expect in the future?

This episode was recorded on July 10th 2025.

Bookshelf:

Travels In Arabia Deserta by Charles M. Doughty.

The Price of Peace: Money, Democracy and the Life of John Maynard Keynes by Zachary D. Carter.

Preventing the next war: A European plan for Ukraine­ by Camille Grand, Jana Kobzova and Nicu Popescu.

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