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The 11th Hour with Stephanie Ruhle
Chaos and confusion after Trump's freeze on federal spending
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Chaos and confusion after Trump's freeze on federal spending
Update: 2025-01-29
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A federal judge has stayed President Trump's freeze on federal spending. Plus, House Republicans head to the President's Doral resort for their annual retreat. And, Caroline Kennedy calls her cousin RFK Jr. a "predator" in a scathing letter she wrote ahead of his Senate hearing tomorrow. David Drucker, Andrew Desiderio, Jeff Mason, Brian Schwartz, David Jolly, Dr. Kavita Patel, Stuart Stevens, and Sen. Doug Jones join The 11th Hour this Tuesday.
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Transcript
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00:01:00
Tonight, Trump's plan to freeze federal aid spending temporarily blocked by a judge during a chaotic rollout will break down what's next.
00:01:09
Then, money-power politics, Republicans, head to the president's derailleur resort for their retreat.
00:01:15
Plus, Caroline Kennedy calls her cousin, R.F.K.
00:01:18
Jr., a predator, the scathing letter she wrote ahead of his senate here in tomorrow, as the 11th hour gets underway on this Tuesday night.
00:01:26
[Music]
00:01:33
Good evening.
00:01:34
Once again, I am Stephanie Rule.
00:01:35
Hope you've got seatbelts on over those pajamas because it is day nine of the second Trump administration.
00:01:41
And right now, officials around the country are wondering how much longer they'll have the federal funding they need to do things like responding to natural disasters and fighting crime.
00:01:52
Last night, the White House issued a two-page document freezing billions of dollars in federal spending.
00:01:57
Several groups immediately sued and today a judge temporarily blocked the order, but only till Monday.
00:02:03
The sweeping freeze was set to take effect at 5 p.m.
00:02:06
eastern today.
00:02:08
And if you're wondering, what does any of this mean?
00:02:10
Does it include services that are crucial to me or somebody in my family could it affect my job or my workplace?
00:02:16
These are all great questions, and here's the problem.
00:02:19
No one seems to have a clear answer to any of them.
00:02:22
My colleague Garrett Higgs starts us off tonight with what we do know.
00:02:27
Tonight in a blow to the administration, a federal judge has temporarily blocked the president's attempt at another government shake-up.
00:02:34
After the Office of Management and Budget overnight ordered a temporary pause on grant, loan, or federal financial assistance programs, then might run counter to president Trump's executive orders.
00:02:44
It means no more funding for illegal DEI programs.
00:02:47
It means no more funding for transgenderism and wokeness across our federal bureaucracy and agencies.
00:02:53
President Trump is looking out for you by issuing this pause because he is being good steward of your taxpayer dollars.
00:02:59
Democrats immediately assailed the president's action.
00:03:03
Law enforcement, rural hospitals, aid to the elderly, food for people in need.
00:03:08
This decision is lawless, dangerous, destructive, cruel.
00:03:15
Several state Democratic attorneys general sued to block the move.
00:03:19
When Congress dedicates funding for a program, the president cannot pull that funding on a whim.
00:03:26
But Republicans defending the frees.
00:03:29
Let's get a handle on all this spending and figure out if it's going where it's supposed to go.
00:03:36
Tonight, the White House saying individual federal assistance would not be paused or reviewed under its plan.
00:03:41
Social security benefits, Medicare benefits.
00:03:44
Social security benefits, welfare benefits, assistance that is going directly to individuals will not be impacted by this pause.
00:03:53
But all of it sparked confusion about who would be impacted.
00:03:56
The White House says head start, the early childhood education program for low income families would not be affected.
00:04:02
But Connecticut Democratic Senator Chris Murphy, post-inquote head start reimbursement system is shut down in his state.
00:04:09
What was your reaction when you heard about this order overnight?
00:04:11
Yeah, it was a shock to ask.
00:04:13
All in Florida, Tleethia Edwards, four-year-old son Raymond is one of the more than 800,000 children served by the program.
00:04:20
She told me the uncertainty is nerve-wracking.
00:04:22
You look for other options, but there aren't many options when you think about affordability and child care.
00:04:29
Wolkism?
00:04:30
Not just Wolkism.
00:04:31
This has all kinds of programs on high alert, programs like Meals on Wheels.
00:04:36
That program delivers over 200 million meals a year to senior citizens in their homes.
00:04:43
And they say 35 percent of their budget, guess where it comes from, federal funding.
00:04:47
So naturally, a lot of people are worried and asking questions.
00:04:51
In fact, Meals on Wheels, four-head start or disaster aid, again, it does not affect individual assistance that's going to Americans.
00:05:00
Hmm, so the White House says, do not worry, it doesn't affect anything where individuals get direct assistance from the government, but here's the problem.
00:05:09
A spokesperson for Meals on Wheels points out that the assistant is not direct.
00:05:13
The money goes to the groups that distribute the meals.
00:05:16
So despite the White House reassurances, people are feeling very uneasy, saying providers aren't even sure whether they should serve meals today, which means seniors could panic,
00:05:27
not knowing where their next meal could come from.
00:05:29
And that confusion is exactly the problem.
00:05:33
With that, let's get smarter.
00:05:34
For the help of our lead off panel tonight, former Republican Congressman David Jolly of Florida, Jeff Mason, White House correspondent for Reuters, Andrew Desiderio, senior congressional reporter for Punch Bowl News and David Drucker,
00:05:45
senior writer at The Dispatch and author of the book Intrump Shadow.
00:05:48
Jeff, I need you to help us first, because this funding freeze has been changing and evolving all day long.
00:05:55
Here we are, 11-0 for Eastern.
00:05:58
Where are things now?
00:06:00
Well, I think the latest stuff is that it's been put on hold by a judge, and that will sort of royal things for the Trump administration for at least a few days while they deal with that.
00:06:13
But in general, it was a day of chaos and questions.
00:06:18
And that was exemplified in the White House press briefing by Caroline Lovett when she wasn't at first able to answer whether or not the freeze would have an impact on Medicaid.
00:06:28
The OMB memo that was put out ended up saying that that would not have an impact, but of course, you had Democratic senators that Garrett was just talking about in his piece that are saying that there were impacts in places where the administration and the office of management budget said we're not going to take place.
00:06:45
So lots of questions, but in terms of state of play, right now, it's on hold, and we'll have to see what happens next.
00:06:53
David Jolly, the White House knew that judges would block this.
00:06:56
It's going on here.
00:06:57
I don't think they did.
00:06:58
They didn't stop it.
00:06:59
No, no.
00:07:00
I don't think they did.
00:07:01
First of all, this is spending that was approved by Mike Johnson's Republican House last year.
00:07:06
So what are they saying to them?
00:07:07
This is Republican spending.
00:07:08
Well, they're falling in line with Donald Trump.
00:07:09
But what Donald Trump did that broke the law and violated the Constitution is that it was how he justified it.
00:07:17
This is very much akin to the Muslim ban.
00:07:20
When he said, we're going to ban all Muslims in the country.
00:07:24
He got the constitutional reasons wrong.
00:07:26
So what the president has to do is he has to faithfully execute the laws.
00:07:30
And under the Empowerment Act, he has to spend the money that Congress has appropriated.
00:07:35
And in this case, he said, I'm not going to do that.
00:07:37
Well, the only reasons he's not allowed to do that, they're very narrowly tailored.
00:07:42
The closest one to what he's trying to do is to capture efficiencies.
00:07:46
But even then, you have to notify Congress that you're sending funds.
00:07:50
You have to notify Congress that you're pausing funds.
00:07:53
He didn't do any of that.
00:07:54
And this is not about efficiency, because in the OMB declaration, he said it's about wokeism, it's about Marxism, it's about gender ideology.
00:08:02
All of those reasons violate the Empowerment Act of 1974, and they violate the constitutional responsibility of the president to take care that the laws of the country are faithfully executed.
00:08:12
Donald Trump broke the law in doing this.
00:08:14
And he did it through an OMB directive without an OMB director.
00:08:19
He hasn't been informed yet.
00:08:21
David Drucker explained this to me.
00:08:23
This was the plan, they have had this planned out for months and months.
00:08:28
So why is it playing out like this in this barrage of chaos?
00:08:33
Well, I don't really know that it's a barrage of chaos.
00:08:37
The president issued an executive order and he gave his White House a directive and they followed it.
00:08:44
I think the question is, will Congress do anything about it?
00:08:47
And the answer is probably no, because over the last 10 to 20, I should say 10 to 20 to 30 years, our Congress has functioned more like a parliament than an actual separate branch of government.
00:09:00
And so whoever the president is, the people in Congress that support that president are happy to give away the power of Congress and let the president run roughshod over them.
00:09:10
They only argue with the president's constitutional overreach when it's the president of the other party, and this doesn't work unless Congress is protective and jealous of its own power.
00:09:24
But article one is acting like article none and that's the problem here.
00:09:28
And so the president figures, I will just do what I want and see if anybody can stop me because the executive branch and for that mounted judicial branch are the only branches of government that are not only protective of their own power,
00:09:40
but willing to stretch the limits of it.
00:09:42
Well, there's one group that might want to stop them, at least for some of these programs and it's the American people, Andrew.
00:09:48
Talk to us about what is happening to Congress people on the hill, with so many programs potentially kind of hanging in the balance or people are afraid that they're not going to have the services that they depend on.
00:09:59
Are Congress peoples getting calls all day long?
00:10:03
Yeah, members of Congress that I talked to all day today, particularly in the Senate, which was in session today, of course.
00:10:10
They, again, members of both parties were saying they were getting calls about this, emails about this.
00:10:15
They were trying to sort of get clarifications from the administration to on what exactly was going to be impacted, which is what led the OMB to actually issue this, what really was a clarification memo earlier today after the initial guidance was leaked out last night because there was so much confusion and it speaks to the frustration that Republicans especially have on Capitol Hill,
00:10:38
which is that they feel like they get blindsided with these types of things and then they have to go out and defend it, right?
00:10:44
And they can't defend something if number one, they disagree with it, obviously, but number two, they're not given any information about it on the front end or at least a courtesy heads up that this is happening.
00:10:55
So we kind of got some of these raw reactions sort of in the moment down in Florida, obviously, where House Republicans are right now.
00:11:01
We saw a lot of reflexive defending of the president, but here, back here in Washington where Senate Republicans are today, we heard some more messages of concern.
00:11:14
For example, Senator Susan Collins, the top Senate Republican appropriator told me today that this directive was, in her words, "far too sweeping."
00:11:23
And so we're really getting those raw reactions in the moment from senators today and that's partly because they really didn't get any heads up from the administration about this.
00:11:32
David Drucker, why wouldn't they get a heads up, right?
00:11:35
They speak to the White House, they speak to Donald Trump all day every day.
00:11:38
Why wouldn't it be more coordinated than this?
00:11:41
I don't know, but why should it be?
00:11:43
They're going to defend the president almost no matter what he does.
00:11:47
And so I don't think the president felt the need to inform them because if they got a heads up, their answer should be, that's great.
00:11:52
We agree with this idea of spending less money, of conducting at least a temporary audit, but if Congress directed the executive branch to spend money, you've got to spend money.
00:12:02
That's our power you're messing with.
00:12:04
You're not going to do that.
00:12:05
They're not going to say it.
00:12:06
Donald think the president really feels the need to give Republicans a heads up because he knows that most Republican voters right now are with him and therefore they are not going to challenge him.
00:12:17
And I think it goes to what Andrew talked about.
00:12:20
It may have blindsided them, but what did they have to do?
00:12:23
They had to figure out how to defend the president, instead of saying, "Hold on a minute.
00:12:27
I'm against this.
00:12:28
I might agree with this in spirit because I want to see less spending, and I didn't agree with all of the democratic spending that Joe Biden wanted that we had to do in a lot of these compromises,
00:12:39
but a law is a law and the president has to follow it.
00:12:42
You're not going to hear any of that from them most likely.
00:12:45
And that's probably why.
00:12:46
You know, it's among the many reasons why he didn't give them a heads up because it wasn't necessary.
00:12:51
I have a feeling you want to say something.
00:12:53
Yeah.
00:12:54
David is exactly right with his political analysis, but the law requires a heads up.
00:12:59
Under the Empowerment Act, if you are going to rescind or delay funds, you have to notify the Congress.
00:13:05
And the Congress is run by John Thunin and the Senate and Mike Johnson in the House.
00:13:10
And nobody seems to care about that right now.
00:13:13
I mean, what we're seeing right now is we have already seen, okay.
00:13:17
This is a president who is an oath-breaker who uses violence to disrupt the peaceful transfer.
00:13:24
He did all those things and then he was elected president.
00:13:25
He did all that and then he was elected.
00:13:26
And then his first week, he's decided to violate the Constitution.
00:13:29
By abandoning the 14th Amendment, by abandoning the Empowerment Act.
00:13:34
And he is doing that as an affront to a Republican-controlled Congress and a Republican-controlled Congress doesn't seem to care right now.
00:13:42
So there is a way for Donald Trump to do this.
00:13:46
There's a way for this administration to do this.
00:13:48
He's not doing it in the normal ways.
00:13:51
And what is violative of the constitutional and congressional prerogative here is that he is doing this with money that has already been appropriated by Republicans and the House of Representatives and they don't seem to care.
00:14:04
Okay, so I want to play something that the White House deputy chief of staff, Stephen Miller, who we all know from the first four years, I want to share what he said about this move.
00:14:15
OMB, led by Russ Vogue, felt it was necessary to protect taxpayer resources, to issue clearer guidance establishing for these discretionary grants of funding that are not directed by Congress,
00:14:28
but they go through a political approval process.
00:14:31
Okay, Jeff Mason helped me.
00:14:33
First of all, Russell Vogue has not even been confirmed yet.
00:14:39
So how is he leading this and why is the money that has been appropriated by Congress, which David Jolly just said, is suddenly up for political approval process?
00:14:48
I don't understand this.
00:14:51
Well, so your first question, Russ Vogue, along with a lot of the people, ended up coming into the administration and he, well, if he's confirmed, were a part of the transition and part of the preparation process for exactly what we're seeing today.
00:15:06
The multitude, according to Caroline Levin, more than 300 executive orders that the president has signed in his first nine days in office, were not just prepared since he got into office and that applies to this as well.
00:15:19
So Russ was almost certainly part of that and was, of course, one of the designers of the project 2025, and this is being reflected, or a lot of those values are being reflected in these early actions that the president is taking.
00:15:34
In terms of what your second question, I think, was on running things through a political lens.
00:15:40
And the answer to that is that's how Donald Trump works and that is absolutely at the core of what this administration does and they're making no bones about it.
00:15:50
Stephen Miller came over and talked to a few of us reporters on the White House driveway after his interview on CNN and basically just sort of said, look, this is how government is supposed to run.
00:16:03
These things are supposed to be done.
00:16:05
This is the president has allowed to do these things and this is how they're going to keep going.
00:16:11
So I think, you know, you said at the very beginning of the show, put your seatbelts on.
00:16:15
This is just the beginning for the Trump 2.0 White House.
00:16:19
Yeah, I don't know if this is how the government is supposed to run, but it is certainly how it's running now.
00:16:23
All right, new topic before I let you boys go.
00:16:25
The Trump White House is now offering two million federal government workers a buyout.
00:16:31
They could quit and get a severance package that's like about eight months.
00:16:36
Andrew, walk us through this because it's almost reminiscent of Elon Musk when he first went to Twitter and he wrote that sort of manifesto to the company.
00:16:44
This is the fork in the road.
00:16:45
You're with me or not.
00:16:46
What do we need to know about this?
00:16:48
Yeah, well, actually Senator Tim Cain, Democrat from Virginia, of course, he's got a lot of federal workers in his state.
00:16:55
He was just on the Senate floor a few hours ago, imploring federal workers to not buy into this, to not take this quote unquote buyout.
00:17:04
He said it's not authorized, it's not legal, it's not something that Donald Trump can do.
00:17:08
He had a line in which he said something like Donald Trump will stiff you in the end just like he did to the contractors when he was a real estate developer in New York City.
00:17:18
You've got members of Congress that are actually saying that this is not a real thing that this cannot actually happen.
00:17:25
Like I mentioned, imploring federal workers, especially in states like Virginia, right outside of D.C., imploring federal workers to not fall for it essentially.
00:17:35
David Drucker, your take.
00:17:37
Well, it's certainly a creative way to try and thin the federal workforce and it's been a major goal of the president, it's something he campaigned on.
00:17:45
I think the question is whether this runs a foul of civil service laws, right?
00:17:49
I mean, there are federal employees that are politically appointed that serve the pleasure of the president and they can be fired or dismissed without cause.
00:17:58
There are civil service employees and this is a matter of statute and you can't just fire them.
00:18:05
I mean, you can try and presidents like to stretch the bounds of executive power as president especially so they can give it a shot.
00:18:12
But if these sorts of things do not run a foul of civil service laws, then it's something that the president has the right to do as he manages the federal workforce.
00:18:24
Well, we'll be watching.
00:18:26
Gentlemen, thank you very much, David Jolly.
00:18:27
You are not leaving yet because when we come back, you know what we're doing, following the money.
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You follow it all the way down.
00:18:34
The Donald Trump's DeRal Resort, you know what's happening there?
00:18:38
The House GOP retreat and later it is RFK Jr's turn to sit in the hot seat.
00:18:44
What to expect tomorrow at his Senate hearing as his own family members warn against his confirmation using the word Predator, the 11th hour just getting underway on a Tuesday night.
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It is time out for money power politics and the question we will continue to ask throughout this administration is this White House for sale.
00:20:45
House Republicans have been gathering this week for their annual retreat to game plan the president's agenda and they didn't just go anywhere.
00:20:52
They went to the Trump National Dural golf club, his previously underperforming resort.
00:20:59
Back in his first term, Trump faced a whole lot of criticism for shuttling elected officials, secret service agents and others down to his properties.
00:21:06
For the Washington Post notes, this year marks the first time House Republicans spent money directly on a venue owned by the president.
00:21:15
Full financial records are not yet available, but from 2017 to 2023.
00:21:20
The annual GOP retreat averaged about a million bucks each time it was held.
00:21:25
With me now to discuss Brian Schwartz, Wall Street Journal White House economic policy reporter and David Jolly still with us David, I want to know how we got here because the last time President Trump was president,
00:21:36
we were told by Democrats elect us and we will never allow this self-dealing to happen again, whether it's Trump or anyone else.
00:21:45
And now here we are, they're doubling down eaten burners with Trump and Blaze and Donald.
00:21:51
Most of what Donald Trump does is illegal, unconstitutional or dishonest.
00:21:55
And House Republicans will back him up.
00:21:57
And so they're writing the check, but he bought a hotel on Pennsylvania Avenue when he got elected last time and he's trying to buy it again after he disposed of it.
00:22:06
But how is he allowed?
00:22:08
Didn't Democrats learn their lesson to say we can't let this happen again?
00:22:12
What blocked them from stopping this?
00:22:14
I don't know that the American people care.
00:22:16
I think Democrats did a good job in pointing this out.
00:22:20
The media did a great job in pointing this out.
00:22:23
I don't think the American people care.
00:22:25
And that's a question on us, on all of us.
00:22:28
But it doesn't excuse what House Republicans are doing this week, which is not only spending taxpayer resources, but all the campaign money that they get, they're spending it on green fees,
00:22:39
they're spending it on drinks, they're spending it on massages.
00:22:43
All of those Republicans right now at derail, yeah, it's gross, right?
00:22:46
They're all using their campaign accounts at derail, at Trump derail right now, to support whatever they're doing this weekend.
00:22:56
That's how this all works.
00:22:57
>> All right, Brian, let's talk about somebody you've done some reporting on tonight Howard Lutnik, not at derail, but he spent an awful lot of time down at Mar-a-Lago over Christmas break and he has now thrilled to be Donald Trump's Commerce Secretary.
00:23:10
Many people have wondered, how did Howard Lutnik, right, CEO of Cantor Fitzgerald, a New York brokerage firm in West Bank, how did he end up Commerce Secretary, zero government experience,
00:23:22
but certainly a close friend to Donald right now.
00:23:25
>> Well, that was part of it, Stephanie, and on top of that, since he's been given this nomination to be Commerce Secretary, he's become close to a wide variety of people in Trump's orbit,
00:23:35
including Peter Navarro and James and Greer, and you have to remember, it's not just being Commerce Secretary, it's also having a lead position on trade,
00:23:45
what are the top economic policy positions that Donald Trump has taken, particularly around tariffs and using tariffs on Mexico and Canada, he's been threatening doing that, but we're reporting the journal really indicates that it's become Lutnik's job to really lead this,
00:24:01
and he's been educated in a lot of ways by the likes of Navarro and Greer, and these are people who are really openly all in with using tariffs.
00:24:10
So if anybody was hoping, particularly in the Wall Street world, you and I know that Lutnik was going to be some sort of moderate voice in the tariff policy space in the Trump White House,
00:24:20
I think it's time to think again.
00:24:23
>> What do you think of this?
00:24:24
Howard Lutnik, hugely successful guy, however, being super pro tariffs, yes, he's a great salesman, but come on now, what do you think?
00:24:33
>> Howard Lutnik has the same profile as Donald Trump, never respected by Wall Street, always wanting to fit in.
00:24:39
In 2016, he was not a Trump guy.
00:24:42
He may have supported Hillary, I believe, but I know he gave to the, yeah, I think he gave to the inaugural committee when Donald Trump won, and somewhere he found this transformation.
00:24:53
He saw Donald Trump an opportunity to be accepted in a way he never had been on Wall Street.
00:24:59
I've shared with him.
00:25:00
>> He was a really successful guy, though, hugely successful.
00:25:02
Cannabis Gerald lost more personnel on 9/11 than the other firm, and he went through some rocky times, but promised to rebuild Canter and promise to take care of his employees,
00:25:16
and he did it.
00:25:17
He was still never quite accepted.
00:25:18
He was the outsider's insider.
00:25:21
It is a perfect Donald Trump MO.
00:25:23
I believe in this administration, he will be the Ben Carson of Donald Trump's second administration.
00:25:30
>> What does that mean?
00:25:31
>> Means he will be the loyalist who knows that the way to survive four years is to support the boss, but not cross the boss, but not get out in front of the boss, because he loves the riches,
00:25:41
he loves the title, he loves the plane, he and his wife will travel the world, and they will do that and enjoy it for four years.
00:25:49
I'm not sure it will be the ambassador of America that the typical Commerce Secretary will be, but he will enjoy the job.
00:25:57
>> No doubt.
00:25:58
Brian Newtopic, OpenAI, announced a new version of chat GPT today specifically for the U.S.
00:26:05
government, okay?
00:26:06
It will allow government agencies to feed, I'm going to say this slowly, non-public, sensitive information into open AI's models.
00:26:16
They say it is safe.
00:26:18
What do we need to know besides taking the word forward?
00:26:21
>> Yeah, maybe it comes across to me as another move by Sam Altman to try to bend the need of Donald Trump and curry favorite of this administration.
00:26:31
This is coming after Altman was at, you know, involved with this $5 billion investment into America with SoftBank, I believe he was at the White House with the SoftBank CEO recently.
00:26:43
And this whole push out of this product, I don't think it's a coincidence, Stephanie.
00:26:49
I mean, I think this is the latest effort by Mr.
00:26:52
Altman and of course a variety of tech CEOs to cozy back up to Trump after, for some cases, including Altman's taking issue, Trump.
00:27:02
I mean, I was going through Altman's tweets before I came on here, and look, during the 2016 election, Sam Altman was no fan of Donald Trump.
00:27:09
I mean, let's just get this really clear, I mean, he was talking about, he may not be a huge fan of Donald Trump today, but he's playing ball.
00:27:17
>> Well, he's playing ball now, but I'm talking about years ago, he was not, and so the evolution of this person to me exemplifies the evolution of many CEOs that are coming to Trump to hang out with them now.
00:27:31
They're bad mouthing him in some cases, publicly in another case, privately.
00:27:35
And I just feel like this has been the evolution that we've seen from any of these guys, and it's all coming to pass now as they're trying to actually have business deals with involving the US government.
00:27:44
>> All right.
00:27:45
Brian, good to see you, David.
00:27:46
Thank you as well.
00:27:47
When we return, a chilling warning from RFK juniors own family ahead of this confirmation hearing tomorrow.
00:27:54
We'll get into it on the other side of the break.
00:27:56
>> Tomorrow, Robert F.
00:28:00
Kennedy Jr.
00:28:01
heads to Capitol Hill for his confirmation hearings.
00:28:08
He is Donald Trump's controversial choice to run the Department of Health and Human Services, a choice that is facing major skepticism from all sides.
00:28:16
And today, his first cousin, Caroline Kennedy, added her voice to the opposition.
00:28:21
If you have not seen this video yet today, sit down and watch this.
00:28:26
>> He lacks any relevant government, financial, management, or medical experience.
00:28:32
His views on vaccines are dangerous and willfully misinformed.
00:28:37
These facts alone should be disqualifying.
00:28:41
But he has personal qualities related to this job, which for me pose even greater concern.
00:28:49
And now Bobby, my whole life, we grew up together.
00:28:52
It's no surprise that he keeps birds of prey as pets, because Bobby himself is a predator.
00:28:59
>> She also said he is, quote, "addicted to attention and power."
00:29:03
RFK Jr.
00:29:04
did not respond to NBC's questions about her comments.
00:29:07
But I'd like to re-inductor Kavita Patel, clinical physician and former senior policy director during the Obama administration.
00:29:13
Oh, Dr.
00:29:14
Patel, Caroline Kennedy's opposition came just a day before the hearings.
00:29:19
It was a personal and emotional plea from a family member, from a medical perspective.
00:29:26
What's your take the night before?
00:29:29
>> Yeah, I'll be interested in hearing some of the direct kind of answers he has to questions that have already been brought up by his own comments.
00:29:36
By the way, the Washington Post and reviewed interviews, transcripts, and cited at least three dozen times that he's called into question the validity of vaccines, kind of linking them to autism,
00:29:47
something that's been debunked now for years, Stephanie.
00:29:50
So I think looking at the science, people have said, he's even said, I'm just trying to look for the science.
00:29:56
Well, I think as a medical professional and somebody who's worked on the committee that's going to be listening to his testimony, you're looking at the science.
00:30:04
We've had decades of it, not just around vaccines, but around the value of fluoride.
00:30:09
And I think something that's important to say, and we rarely in medicine say always are never for good reason.
00:30:16
And I think that that's just important to say because people have been using the fact that people such as myself have been taking vaccines, recommending vaccines, American Academy of Pediatrics,
00:30:26
other medical professionals.
00:30:28
That doesn't mean that we think that they are 100 percent appropriate in all settings for all people.
00:30:34
That's why we talk to patients about it.
00:30:36
But what we see and what I hope to hear tomorrow is some direct answers to confront the statements that have been made, honestly, in my opinion, very calisely over the years into the detriment of the public.
00:30:48
Well, let's talk about financial incentive because his cousin Caroline Kennedy brought up that RFK Jr.
00:30:53
has a stake in an HPV vaccine lawsuit.
00:30:58
And he intends to keep that stake even if he's confirmed.
00:31:02
That means he would be responsible for the oversight of the manufacturer, Mark.
00:31:07
Should we not be concerned by that?
00:31:09
Yeah, we should.
00:31:11
And look, I'm actually kind of stunned as to how I imagine that there's a lot of lawyers who could probably explain how this could get through kind of OGE, the Office of Government ethics because I can't understand it.
00:31:23
I, as a employee, had to fill out a lot of those conflict of interest forms.
00:31:28
And those were incredibly serious things that you would never even attempt.
00:31:32
You and I can probably talk about how many nominees actually have been taken down because of these potential conflicts of interest and had them withdraw their nominations.
00:31:41
So the idea that the very kind of person who oversees not just the food and drug administration but the Centers for Disease Control, which has advisory committees that put out recommendations on vaccine schedules,
00:31:52
but think about the 85,000 people, but kind of our part of that health human services apparatus, and that you can say, well, no, I want to keep this financial stake.
00:32:02
A pretty significant one.
00:32:03
I don't think it matters what the dollar amount is, but in this case, it's a significant one.
00:32:07
How can you not link that directly to not just a conflict of interest, but a crisis, a moral crisis?
00:32:15
I thought about this before coming on to talk to you.
00:32:17
Do no harm.
00:32:18
Talk about it as physicians.
00:32:20
Where is the do no harm as a public official?
00:32:24
I would love to see some of that reflected in financial statements and just what we hear about the future for America.
00:32:31
We talk about making America healthier again.
00:32:34
I actually want to hear some of those details because some of the comments he's made, they're actually making people unhealthy and taking away the progress we've made in this country.
00:32:43
Well, I want to ask you about this before you go.
00:32:45
Some unhealthy people in the state of Kansas.
00:32:48
This tuberculosis outbreak in the state of Kansas, what do we need to know?
00:32:52
Yeah, so this has actually been going on for several years, but it's reached a crisis where the numbers of people infected, 67 with two that have died, and it's kind of centered around Kansas City,
00:33:03
Kansas, and specifically a county within Kansas that has been identified as essentially a hot spot.
00:33:09
What this means is that as a public health person and medical professionals, all the people in that area have activated access to screening, free access to testing, and just awareness.
00:33:19
So tuberculosis sounds like it's a disease of the past, it's not.
00:33:23
We see cases in the United States every single year.
00:33:25
This is the largest outbreak since the 1950s.
00:33:28
So what's important to know is that this is not something that you have to kind of live and fear about.
00:33:33
You just need knowledge and people who have symptoms who might have been in contact with somebody.
00:33:37
Those are exactly the right people that should present themselves to health professionals.
00:33:42
But Stephanie, can you imagine a worse time than when we've had paralyzing portals taken down from Medicaid, health personnel that aren't allowed to communicate, and then just complete confusion over what the state of putting out clinical guidance is.
00:33:55
So people are on the ground, including CDC officials, and they're trying to do their jobs, but it's getting pretty hard by the second.
00:34:02
So people need to get the information to become aware.
00:34:06
But if you're not in that area, don't know somebody locally, it's very low risk to you.
00:34:12
But it just speaks to this broader, more important national, and I would argue international issues that we need leadership for.
00:34:18
All right, Dr.
00:34:19
Cavita Patel, always good to see you always make us smarter.
00:34:22
When we return, we don't know Donald Trump's playbook, "Flood the Zone," but now Democrats are switching up their strategy to tune out the noise and get some work done.
00:34:32
We're going to break down.
00:34:42
Democrats are preparing for a very public battle with Donald Trump over the new funding freeze.
00:34:47
A group of Democratic senators led by Senate minority leader Chuck Schumer offered a preview of that confrontation earlier today.
00:34:54
Watch this.
00:34:57
What happened last night is the most direct assault on the authority of Congress, I believe, in the history of the United States.
00:35:03
It is blatantly unconstitutional.
00:35:06
We made very clear we were happy to join with them to find common ground.
00:35:10
That's not what this is.
00:35:11
The Trump administration is robbing Peter to pay the billionaires.
00:35:16
For more, I want to bring in former Democratic Senator Doug Jones of Alabama and Stuart Stevens, a veteran of the Mitt Romney and George W.
00:35:23
Bush presidential campaigns.
00:35:24
He is now with the Lincoln Project Doug.
00:35:26
Take us to Alabama, your home state, where there are all sorts of Donald Trump voters and super fans.
00:35:33
How do you think they're going to receive this funding freeze?
00:35:37
Well, I think they're going to receive it just fine unless Democrats get off their cans and start talking to those people and telling them how it's going to affect them.
00:35:47
We can talk about the Constitution and the rule of law and impoundments and those things all we want to.
00:35:53
But the fact of the matter is Democrats need to be talking every day to every day Americans about how this is going to affect them.
00:36:00
They need to be talking to firefighters.
00:36:02
They need to be talking to those of Medicaid.
00:36:04
They need to be talking to the doctors that are going to treat these patients.
00:36:07
They need to be talking to county commissioners and mayors, city council members.
00:36:11
They need to be organizing from the ground up.
00:36:15
Democrats need to start sending out messages, quit sending these damn fundraising emails and send out organizing emails to get people on the ground to talk.
00:36:25
Find out what's happening on the ground.
00:36:27
You do that, Stephanie, and I guarantee you those red states are going to rise up because they didn't.
00:36:33
This is not something that they asked for.
00:36:35
I get the sense you're frustrated with Democrats' response in the last nine days, Doug.
00:36:41
Well, you can see that a little bit only because it's the same story for Democrats.
00:36:48
We want to talk about policy.
00:36:50
We want to talk about the Constitution and the rule of law and I do that all of the time.
00:36:54
But the people of this country want to know what's going to affect them and Democrats really don't do that.
00:37:01
We get on a different tangent and we chase a rabbit down an empty hole and we need to be talking to the American people about this is what is going to happen to you.
00:37:15
Don't listen to what he's saying.
00:37:17
Listen to, you know, see what he's doing to you and make sure the people of this country understand that.
00:37:23
As Stuart Stevens and I say down south, we got to start making book on these folks to hold them accountable.
00:37:30
That's the way we make some changes in this country.
00:37:33
All right.
00:37:34
Well, I want to share some of what we heard from Illinois governor, JB Pritzker, about the freeze specifically.
00:37:39
Watch this.
00:37:41
What Donald Trump tried to do in the last 24 hours is illegal.
00:37:47
Let's be clear, this is a demonstration of cruelty against people who depend on us.
00:37:52
Despite what the White House press secretary said at the podium earlier, I believe it is my duty to report to you the truth of what actually happened today in Illinois.
00:38:04
Donald Trump's administration is lying to you.
00:38:08
Do you think this is how Democrats should be challenging Trump because that's not exactly what Doug said they should be doing?
00:38:16
Well, I don't think it's an either or.
00:38:18
I think it's important to label these things.
00:38:20
I think the call in the liar and what they're doing is I think it's important.
00:38:25
Don't shy away from that.
00:38:27
To vote for Pete Hegsett, to put a buffoon in charge of America's defense is unpatriotic.
00:38:34
You cannot be a patriot and think that this is a person that should run the largest, most lethal organization in the history of the world.
00:38:42
So don't shy away from that stuff.
00:38:44
I don't really think people care about the fact that this is an assault on Congress though it is.
00:38:50
I think they care about how it's going to affect them.
00:38:53
And people like spending, you look at these red states, they're completely dependent, like at home state of Mississippi, 40% comes from the federal government, right?
00:39:03
So you're going to cut this 40% out of the state budget?
00:39:06
Really?
00:39:07
I mean, it affects everything and they want to be talking about it and I really would go with the law enforcement angle and the fire department angle because this isn't just about people in need,
00:39:18
it's about protecting people.
00:39:20
And I think the owner of governor is out there and it's like Doug, to get all these county officials, everybody out there.
00:39:26
Well, that's one of my head scratcher, Doug.
00:39:29
Even if Democrats don't talk about it, the people of the state of Alabama and the people of the state of Mississippi are going to feel the impact of these cuts.
00:39:39
How do Republicans think that they are going to maintain the support from these voters if they take away services they rely on?
00:39:48
You know, Stephanie, that's a great question and the answer I think is in part is because of the messaging that they have.
00:39:54
They can send out the word and they can get their messaging whether it's on another network or whether it's through their podcast or whether it's through other social media aspects.
00:40:03
And they can make people feel good about the fact that they're suffering.
00:40:08
That just is the way things happen these days.
00:40:11
The messaging that the Republicans have is stunning.
00:40:14
And Democrats really don't have a really great answer for that.
00:40:19
We can talk to you and we can talk to other folks on MSNBC, but it's not reaching those folks out there that are going to really suffer the people that are watching this show tonight.
00:40:28
They know this, but we have a hard time reaching people.
00:40:31
We don't go where they physically are to talk to them.
00:40:35
That's why Democrats on local levels have to really start organizing and getting out there and talking to their neighbors, not being a jerk about it, not calling them names and calling them racist and things like that,
00:40:48
but talk to them.
00:40:49
Say what is happening to our community?
00:40:52
What is happening?
00:40:53
Do you realize that this is a problem for us and it's going to be create?
00:40:57
We've got to start doing that on a very granular level and that's the only way I think folks in Alabama and some of these other states like like Alabama are going to really understand what this administration is doing to them.
00:41:11
All right, then Stuart, we're at day nine.
00:41:14
What's your take on what we've seen thus far?
00:41:16
Well, you know, I'm sort of baffled by this idea out there that is sort of missed the Donald Trump is doing well.
00:41:27
He says all presidents, when they're first elected, tend to get a bus.
00:41:32
Donald Trump is the second most unpopular president in modern history at this point in his administration and who is the first Donald Trump in 2017?
00:41:43
So, you know, I think this is the high watermark of Trumpism because I don't think people voted for this stuff.
00:41:50
I think people voted because he had an incumbent president, had a 40% approval rating with modern politics.
00:41:57
You've always had incumbent party gets within two points of that.
00:42:00
You had a right track under 30%, no incumbent party wins when it's under 45%.
00:42:06
And they didn't vote the cut head start.
00:42:08
They didn't vote to take money away from their firefighters.
00:42:11
And they didn't vote for chaos.
00:42:12
You know, there used to be a thing Republicans had, they're like, they're going to be the adults in the room.
00:42:17
And this is just something about this.
00:42:22
This doesn't strike people, I think, as serious and it's not going to wear well.
00:42:28
George Bush took him one battle to lose when he got reelected and he went to war on social security and lost.
00:42:36
And he never really recovered from that.
00:42:38
So I think that tomorrow is going to be worse for Trump and the day after be worse for Trump, and I think it's just going to continue.
00:42:46
Well, we'll be covering it.
00:42:47
Gentlemen, thank you for joining me tonight.
00:42:49
When we return, a young Eagles fan gets a prize, tickets to the NFC Championship game, but it is how this young man paid it forward that is getting everyone's attention.
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You do not have to be an Eagles fan to love this story.
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The last thing before we go tonight, brotherly love.
00:44:48
A young Philadelphia Eagle super fan was given the surprise of a lifetime while shopping with his mom at a local Dollar Tree, what's this?
00:44:58
It's a video that's now been viewed millions of times and liked by hundreds of thousands of people.
00:45:06
Eight-year-old Declan LeBaron of Doyle's Town getting the surprise of a lifetime.
00:45:13
On his way to what he thought was an Eagles party at his hospital, Declan was approached by Zach Dernowski, better known as MD Motivator.
00:45:23
He's a popular content creator who spreads kindness through videos like this, showing him blessing people around the world.
00:45:30
In this case, it was Declan who lives with systemic juvenile arthritis.
00:45:35
For Declan, it really affects his joints.
00:45:37
He gets very high fevers, rashes.
00:45:40
There are weeks that he can't walk without assistance.
00:45:44
That's why when Zach put out the call to his millions of followers looking for deserving Eagles fans in our area, Declan's supporters responded and he was picked by Zach to send to the game.
00:46:03
What Declan's mom jilt didn't even expect for Declan to pass on that kindness, a thousand dollars to help other shoppers in the store that day.
00:46:21
The blessings for this sweet boy continued the next day at the NSC Championship, not only easy, he gets to be in the crowd and watch the victory, met Lushan McCoy,
00:46:32
got his jersey sign by his favorite player, Sequan Bargley, to comb these gloves from Isaiah Rogers, even a wave from Bradley Cooper.
00:46:41
It was an amazing experience, we're still on cloud nine.
00:46:44
This now viral moment was a chance for him to just be a kid.
00:46:50
In a world that sometimes feels like it is driven by selfishness and greed, young Declan's story reminds us that kindness and generosity can and absolutely should be contagious.
00:47:02
Thank you Declan, we always need a lesson like that.
00:47:05
And on that very beautiful note, I wish you a very good night from all of our colleagues across the networks of NBC News.
00:47:11
Thanks for staying up late, see you at the end of tomorrow.
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