Citizen Fang with Jimmy Pickel (S8EP9)
Digest
This podcast episode features hosts Rob Benedict and Richard Speight Jr. discussing the Supernatural episode "Citizen Fang." They delve into the plot involving vampires Benny Lafitte and Desmond in Louisiana, and the characters Sam, Dean, and Amelia. The conversation then shifts to an in-depth discussion with Jimmy Pickle, the episode's editor. Pickle shares insights into the editing process, director-editor relationships, cinematography, post-production workflows, visual effects, ADR, music licensing, and navigating network censorship. They also touch upon vampire lore, episode title trivia, and the philosophical concept of Occam's Razor.
Outlines
Podcast Introduction and "Citizen Fang" Overview
Hosts Rob and Richard introduce their podcast "Then and Now," discuss Mood.com, and announce their new Supernatural retrospective podcast. They begin discussing Supernatural Season 8, Episode 9, "Citizen Fang," covering its plot, characters like Benny Lafitte, and initial reactions.
"Citizen Fang" Plot Analysis and Character Fates
The hosts provide a detailed plot summary and analysis of "Citizen Fang," focusing on Benny's actions, Dean's investigation, Sam's conflict, and the confrontation with Desmond. They also explore the aftermath, including Martin's role and Sam's realization of Dean's manipulation.
"Citizen Fang" Review and Guest Introduction
Rob and Richard review "Citizen Fang," discussing their enjoyment, performances, and directing. They then introduce their guest, Jimmy Pickle, an editor for Supernatural, and discuss his background.
Jimmy Pickle's Career and Supernatural's Writer's Room
Jimmy Pickle shares his journey into television editing, starting with "Smallville" and moving to "Supernatural." He also recounts the history of the "Supernatural" writer's room, including a lawsuit.
Editing, Cinematography, and Creative Collaboration
Pickle discusses how editing shapes performances, the importance of cinematography and establishing shots in "Citizen Fang," and the dynamic between editors and directors. They explore how creative conflict leads to better artistic outcomes.
Post-Production Workflow and Storytelling Challenges
The discussion covers music choices, editing quirks, storytelling challenges with flashbacks, and the detailed post-production workflow, including the editor's cut, director's review, and spotting sessions.
VFX, ADR, and Music Licensing Hurdles
The conversation delves into visual effects, the benefits of in-house teams, coordinating departmental changes, ADR, network notes, and the complexities of music licensing and the phenomenon of "demoitis."
Depicting Violence, Censorship, and Editor's Isolation
The speakers discuss the strategic editing tactics used to depict violence while navigating "Standards & Practices" censorship. They also touch upon the solitary nature of an editor's work.
Music Censorship Anecdote and Music Selection Process
A significant anecdote about the rejection of Queen's "Under Pressure" due to perceived violence is shared. The ongoing "battle" of music selection and approval is also highlighted.
Episode Trivia and Conclusion
The podcast concludes with discussions on Louisiana vampire lore, trivia about the episode title "Citizen Fang," the introduction of a "Snooze Fast, Boring Details" segment, and a final listing of episode credits and songs.
Keywords
Supernatural (TV Series)
A long-running American fantasy drama television series that follows two brothers hunting supernatural beings.
Vampire
A mythical creature that subsists by feeding on the vital essence (generally in the form of blood) of the living.
Editing in Television
The post-production process of assembling raw footage into a finished film or television program, involving selection, arrangement, and manipulation of shots.
Cinematography
The art and science of motion-picture photography, including the planning and execution of camera work, lighting, and composition.
Director-Editor Relationship
The collaborative process between a film or television director and an editor, crucial for shaping the final product and realizing the creative vision.
Post-production workflow
The sequence of steps involved in completing a film or television program after principal photography. This includes editing, sound design, visual effects, color correction, and mastering. It's crucial for shaping the final product.
Flashbacks in television
Narrative devices used to interrupt the chronological sequence of a story to present events that occurred at an earlier time. They can provide backstory, context, or reveal character motivations, but can be challenging to integrate seamlessly.
Music clearance
The legal process of obtaining permission to use copyrighted music in a film, TV show, or other media. This involves negotiating with rights holders for synchronization and master use licenses, which can be costly and time-consuming.
Visual effects (VFX)
The process by which imagery is created or manipulated outside the context of a live-action shot in filmmaking and video production. In-house VFX teams offer better control and consistency compared to outsourced options.
Standards & Practices (S&P)
A department within a television network or production company responsible for ensuring that content adheres to broadcast standards, regulations, and network policies, particularly concerning violence, language, and sensitive themes.
Q&A
What is Mood.com and what do they offer?
Mood.com is an online company that provides federally legal THC products, including gummies, baked goods, and flour, designed to help users achieve specific moods like focus or relaxation.
What is the main premise of the "Then and Now" podcast?
The podcast features hosts Rob Benedict and Richard Speight Jr. rewatching and discussing every episode of the TV series "Supernatural," sharing behind-the-scenes stories and insights with guests.
Who is Benny Lafitte in the "Citizen Fang" episode?
Benny Lafitte is a vampire living in Carrancro, Louisiana, who works at a diner and is trying to protect his great-granddaughter, Elizabeth, from another vampire named Desmond.
How does editing contribute to shaping a performance in television?
Editors use various techniques, such as selecting the best takes, focusing on close-ups or wide shots, and pacing the scene, to enhance an actor's performance and serve the overall narrative.
What is the significance of establishing shots in television production?
Establishing shots are crucial for setting the scene, introducing locations, and conveying mood or tone. They help orient the viewer and provide context for the unfolding narrative.
What is the role of conflict in the creative process, according to the podcast guests?
The guests suggest that creative conflict, or debating ideas, is essential for innovation and producing high-quality art, as it pushes boundaries and leads to better outcomes.
What are the challenges associated with incorporating flashbacks in television shows?
Flashbacks can be difficult to land effectively, often appearing arbitrary or disconnected from the main narrative. Their visual style, including color temperature and editing, also requires careful consideration to avoid jarring the viewer.
How does the post-production workflow ensure a polished final product?
The workflow involves multiple stages: editor's cut, director's review, producer's input, and a spotting session for music and sound. This iterative process, along with departmental collaboration on VFX and sound, refines the episode before final lock.
What is "demoitis" and how does it relate to music in production?
"Demoitis" is the phenomenon where creators become overly attached to temporary music (demos) used during production. This can lead to disappointment when the final, licensed score doesn't match the demo, even if it's objectively better.
How do shows like Supernatural navigate the depiction of violence and censorship?
Editors often strategically over-edit violent scenes, showing more than intended to allow room for negotiation with Standards & Practices. This tactic helps ensure that a desired level of violence is ultimately retained in the final cut.
Show Notes
Editor Jimmy Pickel joins the podcast to talk about his experience editing Citizen Fang. The conversation covers his start with the show, how he can enhance a moment, the inner-workings and politics of the post team (I can't imagine Phil mad). Rob and Rich learn a little something about local vampire lore in Louisiana.
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