Business-focused topics from Jason and Kim. We'll discuss deceptive business tactics like perpetual sales, strike through pricing that isn't real, disabled plugin features until you "upgrade". We also talk about a new product idea for a global "Out of the Office" settings app that Kim had (and Jason isn't excited about!).

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Transcript: Season 2, Episode 9

Welcome back to that talking thing. I'm Kim I'm Jason. This is episode nine, season two, and it's a business topic episode, and I'm stealing the show. I'm going to ask the only questions today and I hope I don't catch you off guard. No anything. So my first one is kind of a controversial thing. I'm ready to dig into this and name names and feel it because it's affects us.

It affects our business. It affects our team. So it's based on deceptive business tactics. What do users think about it? How do we as other developers of WordPress products, how do we observe these deceptive tactics? And does it even matter? Is it worth engaging in. The number one deceptive business tactic that a direct competitor of ours uses is a perpetual sale.

I was on a call with Patrick, our team member, and he said, don't you just wish one day they got their come up. And that users realize that this is a total lie. This isn't an opportunity to buy something at a discount. Their actual price is their discounted price. And I said, sure do I sure wish they would.

That would be revealed, but it hasn't been, so I guess it's two part, let's talk about what are some deceptive business tactics? What have we tried in the nature of testing deceptive tactics and what do users actually think of those things? Yeah. I'm not so sure that. Folks like MemberPress you said name names who have perpetual sales and by the way, like they're not the only website it's super common.

Yes. Are trying to be deceptive. Um, a lot of marketing is kind of psychology, behavioral modification type stuff. So when does it cross the line be high and like crossed a line? You know, just nudging the person, the buyer in a direction to really being deceptive or, you know, what we would consider a bad practice, but I always thought like, don't lie to your customer.

So that's kind of a line, right? So it feels really simple that I feel that the customer. So even if they're little lies, they subconsciously pick up on these things over time. And they just get the sense of like, they're not serious. And that is one that interests me when I see that, you know, it's, it kind of, it makes me just feel like, why are they doing that?

Or is it not really worth something or there's something wrong here. Um, but I also think folks who use those kinds of perpetual sales and I don't, maybe we didn't even describe what it is, but you'll see. It's like a banner at the top of the page saying you have three hours to save temporary. Oh, it's for four hours, three hours, 53 minutes or something.

Yeah. I, and then, yeah, it'll, their price will always show up as strike through because like people love getting a deal. And I think the philosophy behind that too. People come to your website, they might be comparing you to other options, or maybe they might get the thought to compare you to other options, some point during the checkout.

But if they feel like, oh my gosh, I have to make the decision. Now this is like FOMO, fear of missing out, encourages people to like, yeah, go ahead. Do it. You should get, you know, you got hurry up. Just kind of nudges people towards buying, which to hurry up is okay. But it is like, is it just, it's kind of lying to say this is a sale now.

I, I actually, I literally know that those folks would say, because they've said it back to me when I was like, isn't that weird? They'll say, well, it's not actually false. Like it's programmed for the sale to stop after four hours. I mean, it's tied to a cookie. That's gonna refresh every four hours also. I dunno, like they're fooling themselves a little bit.

I think some countries maybe have rules around these, but also a lot of online stuff. Countries have rules that are like very kind of this gray area. And if you really tried to adhere to every cent, you would have to, you know, have 20 engineers just to figure out. I see in this. And I think it's something we may be starting to do ourselves for our plugin.

Paid memberships. Pro is cripple where, or the idea of features that aren't enabled until some other thing is active. So whether that's a licensed key, a pro version or some other companion plugin MemberPress who owns exact metrics, is that what it's called? Has another plugin that is free and we're trusted monster insights that is free and.org.

And it has tabs of settings that are all disabled and grayed out and not able to be used until you you've added an upgraded to a professional version of the plugin. And we do this subtly in our plug and we have. Links that say to, um, expand on expiration date options, try the set expiration dates out on with a link to that add on.

So we're doing it kind of subtly. I think we've thought about ways to do it more overtly. Do you feel that that's a deceptive business tactic, like including things that don't actually work, but they're turned off now? I think it it's, it's an interesting way to show them how to use. You know, like, Hey, we have extra stuff that you have to pay for.

I think that's okay. From a user's perspective, how do they feel nickel and dime? Do they, do they feel like they're using a lesser version and incomplete? And so, yeah, I don't think it's that part of things is deceptive of like showing features that they may not have yet and they have to pay for, but I do, I do think it's a bad experience.

Sometimes with another product, there was a form plugin, there was free templates and paid templates and I used a free time. To build something. And then I realized I had to pay for something else, another feature. So I paid an upgraded and then the free template, like disappear. Like I couldn't use the free template with the paid version.

And I was like, oh, and I'm sure they would want to do this. This is development. They would want, you know, all the free templates to also be included in the premium. But I was like, I had to switch to like a premium template and like rebuild something I did. And I was like, that's silly. Like, and it's because they're trying so hard to like do those things, but I get it.

It's hard. Um, Yeah, I guess always think is being honest with the customer. You can have core base values. Um, I, I realized that we're not timing as well as we usually do. We don't have the timer ready and we try to stay on topic. I was like, do I need to wrap it up or not? Uh, well, behind the scenes, um, another deceptive tactic is like an over promise, which.

We don't do, but it's, um, in subscription products, especially there's this promise of make money when you sleep and become an overnight millionaire and the ease that some products yeah. Explain how profitable you can be from starting from nothing by using their product. And you're selling this promise that most people will not get.

Yeah. I'm almost turning around on that one too. Okay. This is kind of like superlative language. Like we're the best membership plugin. Like we were doing some copy and I was like, yeah, like I, like, I honestly think we're in the best. Like we should actually say that. That's like, like I'm being honest. Um, and I don't like being a little bit okay.

With some of that. Now that's your purlative language. If it's just flowery and doesn't mean anything is going to be an effective anyway. When you really are like, yeah, we're actually way better than these other plugins at doing X. Just you should, we should lean into it and say it. Um, it's not an over promise.

It'll be a millionaire tomorrow. Yeah. It's an over promise, right? Or like it's easy or, yeah, we I've struggled with, you know, some of the users of our products are like, wantrepreneurs like they, they want a business. Actually do the hard work or like they're like reading about business and trying, and kind of like cost playing, being a business owner, like setting up a website and putting a price on it.

Um, and it's like, I always I'm like, that's not like our real customer. We want people who are serious or really have potential or are doing things. And, and so we try it. I think that lines up with them sometimes, you know, it's like change your life in a big way. I think. Maybe like the fear of spreading that net and catching all those entrepreneurs who weren't going to be serious and we might get their money.

And then we feel like, oh, we're getting their money, but it's not really helping them. Cause like, I dunno, I think that's just going to be part of it. Cause I think we're also missing people who really are excited or they want to start a business because they want to change their life. So that same, it's weird.

It's kind of like how like Gary Vaynerchuks kind of message. It's very. Like often over the top and people will call them out to like, cause he's publishing every day. So every day it's like, you know, if your ass and do something and you could do it and people kind of get worn out by it. Um, but cause I've met Gary in person a while back, like I'm like, no, he really believes that stuff.

Like he's not, he's honest. And he really wants people to feel. You know, stuff, they buy garage sales, it's a more money to like start themselves on a path to financial i