What if charging upfront actually converts better than free trials for your product? 
 
Jordan Gal sits down with Ruben Gamez, founder of SignWell and creator of BidSketch, for a tactical deep dive into SaaS fundamentals. Ruben built two successful products despite never finishing high school—a testament to execution over credentials. Should you charge upfront or offer free trials? The duo dissects data from both their companies, revealing counterintuitive truths about friction and conversion. "Everything that added friction... resulted in just more conversions later," Ruben explains about BidSketch, while SignWell required the opposite approach. They explore the grinding reality of competing in crowded markets, Google's AI disruption of SEO traffic, and Ruben's current transition from operator to owner at his 15-person company. Real strategies, zero fluff. How do you make pricing decisions from confidence instead of fear? 
 

In This Episode:  
(00:00 ) Catching Up with Ruben Gamez 

(02:34 ) Homeschooling in Portland: Academic Excellence vs Public School 

(08:56 ) From BidSketch to SignWell: The Accidental Pivot 

(12:22 ) Ignoring Advice: Why Ruben Built SignWell Anyway 

(19:46 ) Google's AI Disruption: The Future of SEO Traffic 

(26:35 ) The Friction Paradox: When More Steps Increase Conversions 

(30:47 ) Free Trials vs Freemium: What Actually Works 

(43:11 ) Making Business Decisions from Confidence Not Fear 

(46:58 ) Transitioning from CEO to Owner at SignWell 

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About the Show 

Jordan Gal, founder and CEO of Rosie AI, hosts the Offsite Podcast where he teams up with rotating entrepreneur friends to explore what's happening in their work and beyond. After successfully building and selling CartHook, Jordan now leads a VC-backed company while sharing candid insights about the realities of startup life. The show combines real-time business updates with deeper conversations about founder psychology, growth strategies, and the personal side of entrepreneurship that rarely gets discussed publicly. 

Resources: 
Twitter/X: https://x.com/earthlingworks 
SignWell: https://signwell.com 
BidSketch: https://bidsketch.com 
Rosie AI: https://heyrosie.com/ 

Chapters

• (00:00:00 ) - Google's Ad-Phishing
• (00:00:34 ) - Homeschooling and the Oregon Public School System
• (00:05:30 ) - How Homeschool is Working for My Kids
• (00:05:58 ) - The Social Life of Wall Street
• (00:08:38 ) - Pushing the Right Pillow
• (00:09:04 ) - Signwall: The Journey From Bizketch to
• (00:13:23 ) - How to Get Customers to Use E-Signatures
• (00:15:14 ) - In the Elevator With Elon Musk
• (00:17:23 ) - Execution has been a challenge
• (00:19:10 ) - Is Google Going AI with Search?
• (00:24:16 ) - Is Google's AI-based Search Impact on Sites?
• (00:28:19 ) - Free Trials and Paid Upgrades
• (00:34:40 ) - Facebook Reconsidering The Reverse Trial
• (00:39:08 ) - PayPal's 7-
• (00:43:23 ) - How To Build a More Confident Business With Bit Sketch
• (00:46:53 ) - SignWall CEO on Transition From CEO to Owner
• (00:49:41 ) - Boogie Island