In this episode, Ari explains why she wants to make a documentary on the trans and queer community in the Nadia district which is located at the India-Bangladesh border. The link to the fundraiser can be found here. We also discussed the hierarchies that govern the relationship between academics-researchers and grassroots activists. Please find the English translation and transcription of the interview below.

RD: Today, we are joined by Ari Roy Chowdhuri (ARC) from Kalyani, Nadia, West Bengal, India. Ari is the secretary of Nadia Ranaghat Sampriti Society. This organization works for grassroots hijra, Kothi and trans people. She was also the project director of the NETREACH project undertaken by Sampriti. She has also worked with several organizations in the past such as West Bengal State AIDS Control Society and Pechhan Trust. Thank you, Ari for joining.

I know that you have started a fundraiser for a documentary. Can you tell us if this documentary is specific to the work done by Sampriti or will address broader community issues in the region?

ARC: Thank you. Firstly, this is not so much about the organization itself, but rather about the language of the community. This documentary will be based in the Nadia district. Nadia is along the border of two countries, India and Bangladesh, and it consists of a number of historical and important heritage sites. We can see the birthplace of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, a holy site for Sanatan Dharma. Similarly, we can see the important sites of Matua Mahasabha in the Nadia district and nearby regions. Also, there is a significant number of people in Nadia from the (LGBTQ+) community.

During the year 2010, the number of people belonging to the community started to get increase and become more visible, and there was a huge lack of awareness within the community. During that period, if someone faced any problem from the police, administration or authorities, they found themselves helpless and weren’t able to do anything. People who didn’t want to indulge in or stay in certain professions didn’t have any opportunities for alternate livelihood. Then, some of us, my friends and seniors created an organization. In 2013-14, we got our registration, as it takes some time to get registered. After that, I got busy with my studies for a while. Then in 2016-2017, I created the first transgender toilet in our college. Afterwards, I realized that to work for the community, I need to work through my organization. Gradually our organization was growing, and the base of the community was getting stronger. Back then, the members of the organization asked me to take charge of it. On the other hand, I gradually started to get acquainted with people with political power and background. Today, standing in this position, starting from the COVID-19 pandemic to bringing a number of different small projects for Sampriti to helping people from the community to stand on their own feet, I gave my whole life to the queer community. I remember that during the pandemic, our organization worked in all the districts in West Bengal, starting from Uttar Dinajpur in North Bengal, Murshidabad on this side, Hooghly, North 24 Parganas, and the whole of Nadia district. People from the community in our district have received food and rations at every moment, that’s our achievement, through the help of crowdfunding. But sadly, to this day, no one has ever come to see and hear the voices of our community. 

There is a history behind my decision to make the documentary. What’s the history? We can see day by day, there’s an effect coming upon the cholla occupation. It can also be seen in badhai occupation, where kothis and hijras dance with the baby. But how will Kothis and Hijras will get their bread?! If you can’t provide food for someone, you shouldn’t take away the means of earning their bread. For that, we should look into the history of the origin of cholla and badhai occupation in the Nadia district. 

Today, the Matua community, who are Dalits, who have their Gurudevata as Harichand, Gourchand Thakur are getting discriminated against. On the other hand, Vaishanavas of the Sanatan dharma is following Mahaprabhu Chaitanyadev through ISKON. They are ending up their lives as members of the queer community. Why are they doing that? What problems are the community facing? Why’re they getting initiated under pressure from their family? To open up, and let people know about these issues, we’ve arranged and initiated the process to film this documentary. The rest is in your hand, and we’re expecting help and cooperation from you and everyone. With your help only, we’ll be able to complete the film. Through this, you’ll be able to get to know a lot of unknown facts and issues. You might be able to see how people from the community who have migrated from Bangladesh to Nadia at a young age, are now living in poverty or maybe associated with different occupations. Some of them are old now, and you’ll also get to hear their voices and know about us. 

RD: I feel that the documentary is going to be a story of not just one country, but that of India and Bangladesh. So, during the last few years, we have seen the NRC, and also protests against the Citizenship Act. How do you think the government, both the centre and the state will respond to this history of the community that you want to document?

ARC: Firstly, our government, be it state or central, if they cared about our community, the situation wouldn’t have been this bad. Those who’ve come in 1971, still have to hear that they’re Bangladeshis. And who’s saying that? People who’ve been born here but maybe their parents have also come from Bangladesh. Most of the population of Nadia district is made up of refugees. But recently, there has been a surge among us, of dividing people on the lines of Hindu-Muslim, Dalit, and upper caste–lower caste to just an extent that if we don’t get united together, the situation will worsen for us in the future. This film or cinema will highlight our history, our struggle, of how the community was united together previously; why they aren’t they anymore, and what should be done to improve the condition.

RD: I heard that during the pandemic, at first, the government was providing some relief. Can you say something about that? Again, about the Transgender Act of 2019, a lot of transgender persons faced difficulties in making their ID cards. Did the community get any form of support regarding this? Has the government of West Bengal come forward to help the community in any way?

ARC: Nope. Firstly, I have no idea how the West Bengal government has created a Transgender State Board. Now they’ve created a cell in every district, but we’ve no clue about it either. Secondly, during the three waves of the pandemic, they’ve provided relief only twice. But they had not given any thought regarding where we will stay. Now, while they’ve started providing TG Cards, the government is still asking for an affidavit from the court, which costs around Rs 300; sadly, our community doesn’t have the financial means to provide that money as even Rs 100 is a big amount for us. Since the government hasn’t made the affidavit free and also the other amenities, the role of government is almost negligible. Our hopes and aspirations are not being addressed.

RD: It is usually said that there are no hierarchies within hijra communities regarding religion as individuals irrespective of religious background, stay together. So, when we talk about transgender people and people with marginalized gender and sexual identities, how is this division getting created, and how does this effect work?

ARC: It is true that the big division within the community on religious lines is starting to affect our work. You may know that the ARM of Alipurduar Railway Division has banned chibris to get on the train (for cholla). No one from the community or any NGO is raising their voice against this. Discrimination is always present within us, Hindus are discriminating against Muslims, Muslims are discriminating against Hindus, and on the lines of caste, class, Dalit and Namasudra identities. It is clearly visible in different places. But yes, this isn’t the result of something which occurred in one day, rather has been in process since ancient times in history. To get rid of this, it will take time. People need to make aware and learn more, that we’re already a marginalized community, and irrespective of the identity of being chibri, gay, lesbian, we fall under the same umbrella. It’ll take a huge time to make our community aware of this, as there is no awareness from the government as well. If the government was aware, this would have been done much earlier.

RD: Can you tell us the difference between cholla and badhai?

ARC: Badhai is mainly dancing with the newborn in their laps, and cholla is begging for Rs 1-2 on trains and somehow managing your life with it.

RD: So slowly the government is removing and banning you all from public spaces, right?

ARC: The Railways department has done this one. Particularly within Alipurduar district, not in other places yet.

RD: Is the transgender toilet you made in your college still there?

ARC: Yes it is still present till now. The college used to really have issues and problems with me. To remove this issue, I started protesting this and I created the first transgender toilet in my college.