Episode 308 with Jeff Pearlman, Author of Only God Can Judge Me: The Many Lives of Tupac Shakur and Dogged Researcher, Master of Story "Layering" and of Both Concepts in "Work of Art"
Description
Notes and Links to Jeff Pearlman’s Work
Jeff Pearlman is the New York Times bestselling author of ten books. His subjects include the ’80s Los Angeles Lakers (Showtime), the 1986 New York Mets (The Bad Guys Won), the ’90s Dallas Cowboys (Boys Will Be Boys), and NFL legends Walter Payton (Sweetness) and Brett Favre (Gunslinger). HBO adapted Showtime into the dramatic series Winning Time, produced and directed by Adam McKay. A former Sports Illustrated senior writer and ESPN.com columnist, Pearlman is the host of the Two Writers Slinging Yang podcast and blogs regularly at jeffpearlman.com.
Buy Only God Can Judge Me: The Many Lives of Tupac Shakur
NPR Coverage of Only God Can Judge Me: The Many Lives of Tupac Shakur
At about 3:15 , Jeff talks about writing against hagiography and how he doesn’t “bring bias” into his writing, whether about Tupac or sports
At about 5:25 , Pete compliments the structure of the book, as it examines each of the places that shaped Tupac’s life
At about 5:55 , Rapid-fire questions! *Best Tupac collab? Best movie role?
At about 8:45 , A beautiful shout-out to friend Curtis Dorsey and Jeff’s dad, Stan
At about 10:20 , Jeff shouts out some favorite lines from Tupac’s songs
At about 10:50 , Pete and Jeff discuss Tupac’s “layering songs” and wondrous laugh
At about 12:55 , Jeff responds to Pete’s question about Jeff’s “in”/entry point for writing about someone who has been written about so much
At about 15:45 , Jeff expands on writing his biography of Tupac as a type of "layering" and the importance of specificity
At about 17:00 , Jeff talks about how interviewing 652 people for his Tupac book is actually something that “[he] is supposed to do”
At about 19:55 , Jeff reflects a bit on book promotion and book release
At about 21:25 , Jeff shouts out Dusty Baker as “maybe the coolest human being who’s ever walked the planet”
At about 22:20 , Pete asks Jeff about Set Shakur’s quote that Tupac died “alone”; Jeff reflects on the “isolation” of fame
At about 24:00 , Jeff talks about Suge Knight and his indifference and his intriguing story
At about 25:45 , Jeff talks about Tupac’s connection or lack thereof to the Mob Piru gang
At about 26:45 , Pete gives an incomplete and rambling answer to the best Tupac song
At about 28:10 , Davonn Hodge and his mother reuniting due to great work by Jeff Pearlman and Michelle Soulli is discussed, as Jeff gives the background on the reunification
At about 30:20 , Jeff gives background on Afeni Shakur’s hometown, Lumberton, NC, and he gives a shoutout to Howard Bryant’s book on Ricky Henderson
At about 31:30 , Jeff recounts a story about going to Lumberton to use the microfiche, but wound up seeing Tupac’s grave
At about 32:10 , Jeff gives background on Afeni Shakur’s amazing life and highlights her accomplishments and travails
At about 33:30 , Jeff and Pete discuss “Dear Mama” as aspirational and the sadness of Afeni’s substance abuse and how Tupac dealt with this horrible disappointment and “trauma”
At about 35:15 , Jeff talks in awe of Afeni’s defending herself in the “Panther 21” trial
At about 36:20 , Jeff discusses Tupac’s name origins
At about 37:45 , Jeff responds to Pete’s question about Tupac’s dad Billy Garland and male role models
At about 39:40 , The two discuss horrible athletic performances in movies and Tupac’s unfortunate basketball shooting motion
At about 41:00 , Jeff gives some background on Tupac’s birth name
At about 41:40 , Jeff talks about the impression that New York made on Tupac, musically and personally
At about 43:00 , The two discuss Tupac’s time in Baltimore and at the Baltimore School for the Arts, and Tupac as an actor and singer; Jeff calls Baltimore his “favorite Tupac era”
At about 45:10 , The two talk about Tupac’s Baltimore time and struggles and how “shapeshifter” didn’t quite fit him
At about 47:10 , Jeff traces the Shakurs’ move to Marin City and connections to Geronimo Pratt and his family
At about 48:15 , Jeff shares a profound statement from Set Shakur about moving vs. “relocating”
At about 48:50 , Jeff talks about Marin City and recreating the Marin City of when Tupac lived there
At about 50:50 , Jeff expands on similarities between Tupac’s time in the creative worlds of performing arts high schools in Baltimore and Marin City/ and his mother’s downward spiral
At about 51:55 , The two discuss the significance of Marin City’s Festival on the Green 1992 and further reporting on the tragedy as a “turning point”
At about 55:50 , Jeff responds to Pete’s observation about Tupac’s first albums not being highly-received and focuses on the changes that led to his second album being disappointing for Tupac
At about 57:20 , Jeff traces an almost parallel life for Tupac as a revolutionary leader in Atlanta
At about 58:45 , Jeff talks about the awkward time with Tupac working to become a community leader
At about 1:00:20 , Jeff responds to Pete’s question about the reactions from people who were wowed by Tupac's raps in person
At about 1:03:00 , Jeff shares what he learned in his interviews about Tupac the actor
At about 1:06:00 , Jeff shares his thoughts on the alleged second sexual assault by Tupac
At about 1:08:15 , Pete and Jeff discuss the “fan[ning] of the hip hop media/media and Tupac’s
At about 1:09:35 , Pete compliments the skillful ways in which the last hours and days (the “banal”) were rendered in the way
At about 1:11:10 , Pete asks Jeff about how much Death Row changed Tupac/brought out tendencies in him
At about 1:12:55 , Jeff shares information from the book on two or three parallel universes where Tupac almost avoided being in Las Vegas
At about 1:13:55 , Jeff reflects on Tupac as a 54 year old
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Please tune in for Episode 309 with Amber Sparks, the author of the short story collections And I Do Not Forgive You and The Unfinished World. Her writing has appeared in The Paris Review, Granta, Slate, and elsewhere. Her book Happy People Don’t Live Here was published in October 2025.
The episode drops on November 18.
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