Environmental personhood promises to enshrine natural entities (for instance, bodies of water) as legal persons, with their own rights and standing. It's a concept grounded in many Indigenous ways of relating to nature, and is popularly understood as a means to protect nature's interests under otherwise extractive or destructive economic and legal systems. But, in the absence of a deeper social and legal reimagining, is it enough?

Today's anchor Mutuma brings us into conversation with Kai Chan and Stepan Wood, asking: if False Creek could speak, how would we hear it?

Stepan Wood is the Canada Research Chair in Law, Society and Sustainability, and Director of the Centre for Law and the Environment at the Allard School, UBC. He was recently awarded a Wall Fellowship for his efforts exploring how Indigenous and settler laws can work together to promote healthier relationships between humans and nature, and between settler and Indigenous societies.

Kai Chan is the Canada Research Chair in Rewilding and Social-Ecological Transformation, and a Professor at the Institute for Resources, Environment and Sustainability at UBC, where he runs CHANS Lab (Connected Human-and-Natural Systems). He is also co-founder of CoSphere, a Community of Small-Planet Heroes, and is the host of his own podcast by the same name.