In this episode of the ODSC Ai X Podcast, host Alex Landa sits down with Julian Togelius, Associate Professor in the Department of Computer Science and Engineering at New York University and Co-Director of the NYU Game Innovation Lab.

Julian is a pioneer in the intersection of artificial intelligence and gaming, with groundbreaking work on AI for game design, computational creativity, and the role of AI as both a research tool and creative collaborator. He’s also the co-founder of modl.ai, a company developing AI for game quality assurance.

Together, Alex and Julian explore how AI is transforming game design, what’s remained the same since the early days of AI in games, and what the future may hold for creativity, interactivity, and NPCs.

Key Topics Covered:

• Julian’s academic journey from philosophy and psychology into computer science and AI research.
• The origins of AI in games, from Turing’s chess experiments to reinforcement learning milestones.
• How AI can be used not only to play games but also to design them.
• The evolution from the first edition of Artificial Intelligence and Games (2018) to the expanded second edition (2025).
• The tension between human creativity and AI-generated content in the gaming industry.
• Challenges and opportunities of using AI to create immersive NPCs and dynamic game worlds.
• The future of AI in gaming, from neural game engines to experience-driven content generation.
• Insights into ongoing projects at the NYU Game Innovation Lab and at modl.ai.

Memorable Outtakes:

1. “Games are designed not to need AI… Just putting AI solutions into existing designs is not going to help. You need to design from the ground up for the AI capabilities.” – Julian Togelius
2. “One of the most productive things you can do is to play with these models and allow yourself to be provoked and outraged—to do more out-there things you wouldn’t otherwise.” – Julian Togelius
3. “At some point, someone is going to do an RPG that features characters you can actually talk to—and that’s going to revolutionize how we think about RPGs.” – Julian Togelius

References and Resources:

About Julian:

1. Website: http://julian.togelius.com/
2. LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/togelius/
3. NYU Page: https://engineering.nyu.edu/faculty/julian-togelius
4. Twitter/X: https://x.com/togelius
5. Blog: https://togelius.blogspot.com/
6. Artificial Intelligence and Games book: https://gameaibook.org/
7. modl AI Engine business: https://modl.ai/

Other Resources Mentioned:

1. Podcast with Nick Walton on AI and Games: https://opendatascience.com/ai-dungeon-and-the-future-of-ai-powered-storytelling-a-conversation-with-creator-nick-walton/
2. AI Dungeon: https://aidungeon.com/
3. ODSC talk “Playing Super Smash Bros with Agentic Gemini”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AR0o9DLF0H0
4. Turochamp, the Alan Turing chess game: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turochamp
5. Reinforcement learning for games: https://opendatascience.com/the-paladin-the-cleric-and-the-reinforcement-learning/
6. The NYU Game Innovation Lab: https://game.engineering.nyu.edu/

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