Business-focused topics from Jason and Kim. We'll discuss giving your team space in conversations vs. stepping in — when is the right moment and how can you avoid stunting ideas while also course correcting and stopping unapproved tangents. We also talk about A/B testing, specifically how our current "tagline" is a bit vanilla. Could we try something more inspirational?

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Transcript: Season 2, Episode 11

Welcome back to that talking thing. I'm Kim and Jason. Uh, we have episode 11, season two with some business topics. The first one it's about giving your team some space, specifically, not jumping in, into conversations that are happening. So either on zoom meetings, we work remotely or in our slack channels.

If people are talking about something, I found like I have an opinion or like, or someone asked a question and they're like, what do you think? What should we be doing? And I'm like, of course I have an opinion on this. I try now with, you know, a team of 15 to 18 and, um, you know, more managers as well. Like I'll, I don't have to jump in early.

I have to give them some space to figure it out. There's someone else on the team who also has an. And at least half the time, like someone that's like great job, someone else says it, you know? And then I get a moment of like, I can agree. Like that was a good idea. Like either behind the scenes or in the moment, like, you know, like that's a good idea, Andrew has, which is the same idea I would have suggested.

And it's almost like it's better. It comes from someone else. So it's hard to keep that in mind, but that's almost something like I write on a note for meetings and, um, lately. I think I'm proactively doing this, also trying to let conversations happen before I jump in, because I know as an owner, once I respond and comment, everyone else's comments are shaded by what I've said.

Um, but the problem is lately I've seen conversations that I hold back from, go down a path. Major correction either because it doesn't align with our goals, with our vision, with our core values, uh, with, with things I know that are happening in other teams and, and these conversations go too far. And before stepping in, they've gotten to a place where it's very much off the rails.

Think they're excited about a new feature, but like, we should totally do that. Let's do that. Let's pitch it, dot that speech has got to be awesome. And then like me and mom, but like, you know, and you get to a point and that conversation has gotten so far, like a slack channel specifically. It doesn't happen in video call as often because I wouldn't let it go that far.

I wouldn't let people falsely believe that their idea was great and they all got together and went pretty far. And I would just sit there with my eyes. Um, but it has happened in a slack conversation I come to later and it's very hard to hold on everyone actually now, and not just sound like a complete ass.

I think it's like that just like with kids is like, this is a learning opportunity. And like, in her mind, maybe don't say that, but you say it to yourself. You're like, oh, this is like, this. Isn't like a problem. This is a learning opportunity. We are in the process we talked about before about, you know, sharing the core values with the team.

And so if it is that's, the issue is, is kind of like, Hey, like our core value, you can talk from that angle or man, a lot of the time it's like, we've tried this, or we thought about this, or like we were doing this. Or we looked into that, you know, as like new people are coming on the team, they don't know the history.

And it's like, this is a great idea. And you're like, we tested that and it didn't work, you know? And so it's like weird if it gets really. I find myself, even in conversations, you're not in saying, you know, when Jason gets involved in this, we should use different language or we should talk about it in a different way.

Or this is something that I, I know that Jason will have a strong opinion about. I said, things like that. So before you go further, we should make sure that Jason has, uh, gets involved in this conversation. Uh, not throwing you under the bus, but just saying, I don't want to parrot your. And make the decisions on your behalf or share your opinion to them.

But I I've been in, especially the new feature type conversations where I know this is something Jason has been involved in, has an opinion about, and before you move forward with anything else, get him in, in this conversation. Yeah. I feel like I'm doing the same thing for you, but also others on the team, like, oh, like I know David has an opinion about this.

Let's bring him into this conversation or let's make sure we talked to him about. Or w you know, Kim had some thoughts on this let's, you know, CC and tag you. Um, but yeah, I guess, I dunno. Yeah. I dunno. Maybe it's good to, yeah. Like people it's weird. I feel this is related to something else that has gone on in the business where we're bringing out a manager's restructuring people, giving them different roles and stuff.

Um, I feel a little out of touch. And so like, conversations are going on that I kind of haven't been able to, like, I was talking to one employee and they talked about how they had a conversation with someone else and I was like, oh, that's odd. Um, and, uh, about kind of that kind of thing of like, here's a conversation that like is, I don't know, like I hate project management tool.

So I think, you know, like a lot of times you change your project management tool and it's like, great. Now you're documenting the fact that you're not getting anything done. Like it doesn't actually have to get done. Like there's like a deeper issue. And it's, so it's kind of like, if people say like, that's like the problem or whatever, oh, that's an example.

And it's just like, oh, like you said, like, I know Jason has a strong opinion about this. Right. And it's, um, how do I, yeah, have it's weird. Like, I feel like I got to have conversations with him, but it's oh. But I feel like what I was going to say is I feel like. Stopping people from having ideas, like what we were talking about, pitching someone pitched something early and we're like, we're not actually writing up the whole pitch, just ideas now.

And I'm like, it's in some ways a pitches like brainstorming and sharing ideas. And it's like, why am I being so authoritarian about like, you're not allowed to have ideas unless you talk to me first. Like I kind of wanna encourage. So that's the challenge I have is like, how do I encourage folks to like, have ideas?

Like I don't wanna, you know, they, maybe it's a good idea. A lot of times it's a good idea. You know, but still have the communication going on so that like, people aren't steered off track, um, people that like, is it really a problem? Or maybe they know more than you I'm like, I'm not so sure. Like, it really feels like it's kind of affecting productivity when people are spending too much time kind of going down a path and then it just feels bad.

Like you said, like when you say like, no, we're actually not, I know you spent like a week thinking about that, but we're not going to do it. Right. And you're like, I wish I'd talked to you on Monday and like kind of steered you in the direction of the version. Nina more acceptable. I think as we grow, that's going to be one of the biggest new things that we both refine as leaders as bosses.

And I think to this point, we've been small enough that we haven't had to write be un-involved in every small thing. Uh, I'm in a mastermind in, and a person had read a book and the gist of the book. She said don't read the book, but just the gist was be a boss. So if you are the boss, be the boss, uh, and use that as a decision-making as an, and don't sugarcoat it.

Don't tip toe around.

I think to this point, we haven't been bossy bosses, but we have been like declarative specific, strong, harsh, high standards type people, because we are kind, we are human and that's a core value of ours. Everyone is human, but I think as you grow there, that changes to a point and to see yourself as a boss.

And make a comment that say, we can't do that because X we've considered doing that in the past, but X and not feel sensitive about it and not feel sad about it and not rewrite your slack message 10 times to make it sound more kind. Um, maybe that's a female thing and maybe not something you need to hear, but for me, I use qualifiers, like just, and maybe when, I mean, no, now this, and I mean specific things, but I curtail my language with qualifiers to not sound like a boss when maybe it's okay.

It will make us more productive and more aligned in the long run because we are. Yeah, specific verdict. I think that employees, they want to know what to do and they want to be, you know, of course, corrected like that and yes, you know, know that and yeah, that's our job to tell them what to do basically.

Um, yeah, but also give them, how do we give them? Flexibility to feel like they control the space to be creative, have ideas, and when to step in constraints, help creativity. So we kind of provide the constraints and yeah. Focus on this. Hmm. You marinade on that. I'm going to introduce our next topic, which is.

Well, I mean, months ago you had this idea for a new tagline for paid memberships pro, and what's interesting. It comes out of a competitive research. Patrick did where he looked at other membershi