In this gripping episode of Gangland Wire, retired intelligence detective Gary Jenkins sits down with author Jonathan Dyer to explore one of the most complex and dangerous figures in Mafia history—Greg Scarpa, the Colombo family enforcer known as The Grim Reaper.

Dyer, whose career spans military intelligence, law, and education, brings deep insight into Scarpa’s remarkable—and chilling—dual role as both a ruthless mob killer and a prized FBI top echelon informant. Together, Gary and Jonathan unpack the moral ambiguities, betrayals, and calculated violence that defined Scarpa’s career in the turbulent world of organized crime.

Listeners will hear:

How Scarpa balanced loyalty to the mob with his covert cooperation with the FBI.   The structured, almost corporate way his crew operated—and how he enforced discipline with fear and bloodshed.

The darker corners of his personal life, including family ties, marriages, and the impact of his choices on his children.

The violent episodes, such as the murder of Mary Bari, underscore his brutality and the Mafia’s code of protection.

From Cold War–era law enforcement collusion to the inner workings of New York’s underworld, this episode reveals how Scarpa manipulated both sides of the law to maintain power.

Jonathan Dyer’s latest book, Greg Scarpa: Legendary Evil, offers the foundation for a conversation that will leave you questioning where law enforcement ends and organized crime begins.

Subscribe to Gangland Wire wherever you get your podcasts, and join us each week as we uncover the stories buried beneath the headlines—and the bodies.

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Transcript

[0:00 ] Well, hey, welcome all you wiretappers. Good to be back here in the studio of

[0:03 ] Gangland Wire. This is Gary Jenkins, an entire Kansas City, Missouri police detective. Worked at the Organized Crime Unit or the Intelligence Unit for many years. And now I’ve got a podcast and we’re all about the organized crime. As you guys know, all you regular guys and for new people, it’s all about organized crime, particularly the Italian mafia in the United States. Now, I have an author here today, Jonathan Dyer. And Jonathan, I really am excited about having you on here because you have a different take about a much cussed and discussed subject or person, Gregory the Grim Reaper Scarpa. So welcome, Jonathan. Thanks, Gary. Thanks for having me. So tell the guys a little bit about yourself, a little bit about your background. Where’d you come from other than Marshall? We found out we have similar backgrounds, Marshall, Missouri, rural Missouri, farm life and Kansas City. So tell the guys a little bit about yourself. Well, in 1981, Gary, I joined the Army and spent about a year and a half in Monterey Defense Language Institute learning Russian.

[1:10 ] After that, I went to Goodfellow Air Force Base for some cryptologic training. And then after that, I went to the National Security Agency in Fort Meade for some more training and then shipped overseas to Berlin for three years trying to keep tabs on the Soviet Army during the Cold War. After the Army, I entered law school at UC Davis in California. And after law school, I practiced law for about 10 years as a civil litigator. And then in 1999, I switched careers and became a teacher and taught government and U.S. History and criminal law and retired during the pandemic. And now I live in central Texas. Interesting.

[1:52 ] This is off the subject a little bit, but I’ve always been curious about that language school. FBI agents go to that and military people go to it. I have tried to learn Spanish. You know, I’m a pretty good tourist. I’ve tried to learn French most recently. I haven’t been there yet after I’ve worked on it with Duolingo, the new app to help you learn a language. But it’s so hard to learn a foreign language. It is so hard. Do they have some tricks or techniques? I mean, did you really learn to converse in Russian or were you just like, you know, able to order a pizza or something? Well, the basic course in the Russian, at least back in the early 1980s, was 47 weeks long. And Gary, they’ve been at it for a while. So I think they have a pretty good plan. And it’s intense. You’re in a classroom six hours a day, and then you have about two or three hours of homework at night. So you’re not just like I would do now, just kind of dabbling in it a little bit, looking at the sticks. And then after that first year, and it’s going to sound like I’m patting myself on the back here, but I don’t mean to do that. If you do well, you can take another six months right away. And at the end of that year and a half, I was certainly conversant in Russian. I was reading Russian. It was a good deal of fluency.

[3:16 ] But I haven’t really worked on it since then. So, frankly, it’s mostly disappeared. But I think it’s back in there somewhere. And if I needed to call up on it, I think I could bring it up. It would be if you went into a conversation with somebody who was a Russian speaker only, I guarantee, uh, you would slip back into it pretty shortly if you went to Russia. Now, was that full immersion? Did you like, we’re not allowed to speak English any other time and didn’t, you weren’t with any other English speakers or were they that rigorous?

[3:45 ] No, it wasn’t. I mean, particularly in the beginning, there’s no way to exist or survive without being able to speak English. And there was the classroom work in that second six months that I talked about was entirely in Russian, except for the military portion of it. We had some military senior NCOs who were also our instructors and they would flip back and forth between English and Russian. But our teachers in general were native Russian speakers. And again, during that last six months of the year and a half of training, it was, at least in the classroom, exclusively in Russian. Yeah. Wow. In order to pick up the nuances, if you’re doing an overhear or looking at documents or whatever, in order to pick up the nuances of the country, if you will, that’s another thing. You really have to know the language well.

[4:48 ] Yeah. I mean, one of the things that I’ve heard that indicates fluency is if you understand the sense of humor of a foreign language. And I think I got to that point. Oh, we’re good. And certainly the Russian sense of humor is different from the American sense of humor, but, um, again, um, not really doing much with it since my discharge from the army. Uh, even that I think is probably, uh.

[5:14 ] Difficult to access at this point to be fine. Yeah. Interesting. Well, I just, uh, sorry to digress guys, but I just always found this fascinating learning a foreign language. I’ve always found that fascinating as hell. I went to Mexico and I spent two weeks living with a family down there. And that was the, that’s why I asked that question. That was a rule. You were not supposed to speak English and they were not supposed to speak English with you. Although we, we had to cheat a little bit, but it was true. It’s hard boy, but that full immersion, uh, that, That’ll really amp up your ability to speak. Yeah, there’s a very steep learning curve, and that’ll do it. Jonathan Dyer is the author of 12 books, including six on Cold War espionage, a thriller series, The Nick Temple Files, which sounds interesting as hell. So, guys, I’ll have a link to his author page on Amazon in order to find some of these other books that he’s written. And it sounds like you’ve got a little inside track on the espionage thriller genre for what you did for a living, kind of like Ian Fleming and his James Bond series. Right.

[6:22 ] But what we’re here today to talk about is organized crime in the mafia. Jonathan wrote a book called Greg Scarpa, Legendary Evil. Now, a lot of you guys know Greg Scarpa. Greg Scarpa. There’s our man himself, the many faces of mafia killer. And I guess my first question would be, he’s been covered quite a little bit. And I was reading your book and you really have some interesting takes on this guy. But what got you interested in Greg Scarpa? Well, a writing partner and I were working on some scripts for a possible streaming series. And it was about th