As Ukraine’s counteroffensive grinds on, it’s increasingly turning to a secret drone program that is hitting targets deep inside Russian territory. At least three different Ukrainian-made drones have been used in attacks inside Russia, including on Moscow, according to an analysis by The New York Times.

Christiaan Triebert, a journalist on The Times’s Visual Investigations team, explains the origins of that program. We also speak to Serhiy Prytula, a former Ukrainian television host who is now a key force behind it.

Guest: Christiaan Triebert, a journalist on The New York Times’s Visual Investigations team.

Background reading: 

• Officials in Ukraine rarely discuss attacks on targets inside Russia, including Moscow. But video evidence shows an increasing effort to launch long-range strikes inside the country.
• Moscow said Ukraine used drones to strike Novorossiysk, a Black Sea naval and shipping hub, and a port in occupied Crimea.

For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday.