DiscoverStay Tuned with PreetInside the Mueller Report (with Aaron Zebley & Andrew Goldstein)
Inside the Mueller Report (with Aaron Zebley & Andrew Goldstein)

Inside the Mueller Report (with Aaron Zebley & Andrew Goldstein)

Update: 2024-09-26
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This episode of "Stay Tuned" begins with a discussion of listener questions, focusing on the case of Ryan Routh, who attempted to assassinate former President Donald Trump. The episode then transitions to an interview with Aaron Zebli and Andrew Goldstein, former members of Robert Mueller's special counsel team. They discuss their experiences investigating Russian interference in the 2016 election, including the team's formation, the challenges they faced, and the decision not to subpoena Donald Trump. The conversation then delves into the controversial conclusion of the Mueller report, which did not exonerate Donald Trump but also did not conclude that he committed a crime. The guests discuss the reasons behind this ambiguity, the role of the Office of Legal Counsel (OLC) opinion, and the impact of Bill Barr's actions on the report's release. The episode concludes with a discussion about election security and the future of investigations in light of the Mueller investigation's findings. The guests express concerns about the ongoing threat of foreign interference and the potential impact of artificial intelligence on election integrity.

Outlines

00:00:00
The Mueller Investigation: A Deep Dive

This episode of "Stay Tuned" explores the Mueller investigation, examining its findings, the challenges faced by the special counsel team, and the implications for future investigations and election security. The episode begins with a discussion of listener questions, focusing on the case of Ryan Routh, who attempted to assassinate former President Donald Trump.

00:11:07
Inside the Mueller Investigation: An Interview with Aaron Zebli and Andrew Goldstein

Preet Barara interviews Aaron Zebli and Andrew Goldstein, former members of Robert Mueller's special counsel team, about their experiences investigating Russian interference in the 2016 election. They discuss the team's formation, the challenges they faced, and the decision not to subpoena Donald Trump.

00:55:58
The Mueller Report's Ambiguity and its Impact

The conversation delves into the controversial conclusion of the Mueller report, which did not exonerate Donald Trump but also did not conclude that he committed a crime. The guests discuss the reasons behind this ambiguity, the role of the Office of Legal Counsel (OLC) opinion, and the impact of Bill Barr's actions on the report's release.

01:06:51
Election Security and the Future of Investigations

The episode concludes with a discussion about election security and the future of investigations in light of the Mueller investigation's findings. The guests express concerns about the ongoing threat of foreign interference and the potential impact of artificial intelligence on election integrity.

Keywords

Special Counsel


A special counsel is an independent prosecutor appointed to investigate a specific matter, often involving high-level government officials. They have a degree of independence from the Department of Justice but ultimately report to the Attorney General.

Obstruction of Justice


Obstruction of justice is a crime that occurs when someone intentionally interferes with a legal investigation or judicial proceeding. It can involve actions such as destroying evidence, intimidating witnesses, or making false statements.

Russian Interference


Russian interference refers to the actions taken by the Russian government to influence the outcome of the 2016 US presidential election. These actions included hacking into political campaigns, spreading disinformation, and using social media to manipulate public opinion.

OLC Opinion


The Office of Legal Counsel (OLC) is a division of the Department of Justice that provides legal advice to the government. The OLC opinion on the prosecution of a sitting president states that it is not permissible to charge a sitting president with a crime.

Artificial Intelligence (AI)


AI is a branch of computer science that deals with the creation of intelligent agents, which are systems that can reason, learn, and act autonomously. AI has the potential to be used for both good and bad purposes, including influencing elections.

Mueller Investigation


The Mueller investigation was a special counsel investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 US presidential election and possible collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia.

Election Security


Election security refers to the measures taken to protect the integrity and fairness of elections from interference, fraud, and other threats.

Donald Trump


Donald Trump is the 45th and current president of the United States. He was elected in 2016 and is a controversial figure.

Q&A

  • Why was Ryan Routh, the individual who attempted to assassinate former President Donald Trump, not charged with attempted assassination?

    Routh was initially charged with being a felon in possession of a firearm and possessing a firearm with an obliterated serial number. These charges were considered strong and provable, and sufficient to keep him behind bars. However, new evidence, including a note written by Routh confessing to the assassination attempt, may lead to additional charges, including attempted assassination.

  • What was the rationale behind the decision not to subpoena Donald Trump during the Mueller investigation?

    The special counsel team believed it was important to interview Trump but ultimately decided against pursuing a subpoena due to the potential for lengthy litigation and the fact that they had gathered substantial evidence from other sources. They also lacked full support from the Department of Justice.

  • What are the implications of the Supreme Court's recent decision on presidential immunity for future special counsel investigations?

    The Supreme Court's decision granting broad immunity to the president's official conduct raises serious questions about the viability of future special counsel investigations. It may make it impossible to even investigate potential wrongdoing by a president, as the OLC opinion on prosecuting a sitting president may become moot.

  • What are some of the key takeaways from the Mueller investigation regarding election security and the future of investigations?

    The investigation highlighted the ongoing threat of foreign interference in elections, particularly through the use of social media and disinformation campaigns. The rise of artificial intelligence presents new challenges to election security, as it can be used to manipulate public opinion in ways that are difficult to detect.

Show Notes

Years after they published the Mueller investigation findings, lawyers Aaron Zebley and Andrew Goldstein take the public behind the scenes. Zebley has served as an Assistant US Attorney in the Eastern District of Virginia, an FBI agent, and chief of staff to Robert Mueller at the FBI. He’s now a partner at Wilmer Hale. Goldstein is the former chief of the public corruption unit at SDNY, and is now a partner at the law firm Cooley. They’re co-authors of the new book, Interference: The Inside Story of Trump, Russia, and the Mueller Investigation


Plus, can prosecutors prove the second would-be assassin’s intent to kill former President Trump? How long is too long for legal briefs? And… can I ask you a question? 


For show notes and a transcript of the episode head to: https://cafe.com/stay-tuned/trump-mueller-report-interference-zebley-goldstein/ 


Have a question for Preet? Ask @PreetBharara on Threads, or Twitter with the hashtag #AskPreet. Email us at staytuned@cafe.com, or call 669-247-7338 to leave a voicemail.


Stay Tuned with Preet is brought to you by CAFE and the Vox Media Podcast Network.

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Inside the Mueller Report (with Aaron Zebley & Andrew Goldstein)

Inside the Mueller Report (with Aaron Zebley & Andrew Goldstein)

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