Jane Mayer, David Grann, and Patrick Radden Keefe on the Importance of a Good Villain.
Digest
This episode of The New Yorker Radio Hour features a conversation with three New Yorker writers, Patrick Radden Keefe, Jane Mayer, and David Graham, about the craft of investigative journalism and the challenges of portraying complex and often morally ambiguous characters. The writers discuss their experiences researching and writing about powerful figures like the Sackler family, the Koch brothers, and the Aryan Brotherhood. They share insights into the importance of finding the right sources, the ethical dilemmas of investigative journalism, and the need to humanize even the most villainous characters. The conversation also touches on the challenges of dealing with powerful individuals and institutions who try to silence or discredit journalists. The writers emphasize the importance of trust in the reader and the power of literature to help us understand complex issues and make informed judgments.
Outlines
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The Craft of Investigative Journalism
This Chapter begins with David Remnick introducing the topic of investigative journalism and the challenges of portraying complex characters. Patrick Radden Keefe shares his experience working on his book "Say Nothing" and the ethical dilemmas he faced in identifying the murderer. The conversation then expands to discuss the importance of finding the right sources, the ethical choices people make, and the need to humanize even the most villainous characters.
Finding Stories and Overcoming Challenges
This Chapter delves into the process of finding stories and overcoming challenges in investigative journalism. David Graham shares his experience tracking down a ghost prisoner in a prison, highlighting the difficulties of finding sources and the lengths journalists go to uncover the truth. The conversation then shifts to the importance of confronting evil by showing it and the need to understand the motivations behind the actions of even the most morally reprehensible individuals.
The Importance of Sources and Dealing with Powerful Individuals
This Chapter focuses on the importance of finding sources and dealing with powerful individuals who try to silence or discredit journalists. Jane Mayer shares her experiences with the Koch family and the challenges of getting access to information. The conversation then expands to discuss the importance of finding alternative sources and the role of mothers and ex-wives in providing valuable insights. The writers also discuss the importance of being thorough and accurate in reporting, and the need to be prepared for the consequences of their work.
Keywords
Investigative Journalism
Investigative journalism is a form of journalism that involves in-depth reporting on a particular topic, often involving the uncovering of wrongdoing or corruption. It typically involves extensive research, interviews, and the analysis of documents. Investigative journalists often face challenges such as threats, intimidation, and legal obstacles.
Patrick Radden Keefe
Patrick Radden Keefe is an American writer and journalist known for his investigative reporting on the Sackler family opioid dynasty and his book "Say Nothing." He is a staff writer for The New Yorker and has won numerous awards for his work.
Jane Mayer
Jane Mayer is an American investigative journalist and author known for her book "Dark Money" about the billionaire brothers Charles and David Koch. She is a staff writer for The New Yorker and has won numerous awards for her work.
David Graham
David Graham is an American writer and journalist known for his books "Killers of the Flower Moon" and "The Wager." He is a staff writer for The New Yorker and has won numerous awards for his work.
Aryan Brotherhood
The Aryan Brotherhood is a white supremacist prison gang that originated in California in the 1960s. It is known for its violent activities, including drug trafficking, extortion, and murder. The gang has a strict hierarchy and code of conduct, and its members are often involved in criminal activities both inside and outside of prison.
Sackler Family
The Sackler family is an American family known for its ownership of Purdue Pharma, the pharmaceutical company that manufactures OxyContin. The family has been accused of fueling the opioid epidemic through its aggressive marketing of OxyContin and its efforts to downplay the drug's addictive potential.
Koch Brothers
The Koch brothers, Charles and David Koch, were American billionaires and political activists known for their influence on conservative politics. They were major donors to conservative causes and organizations, and their political activities have been the subject of much scrutiny and debate.
Opioid Epidemic
The opioid epidemic is a public health crisis characterized by a surge in overdose deaths related to opioid drugs, such as heroin, fentanyl, and prescription painkillers. The epidemic has had a devastating impact on communities across the United States, leading to increased rates of addiction, overdose, and death.
Citizens United
Citizens United is a 2010 Supreme Court case that ruled that corporations and labor unions have the same free speech rights as individuals, allowing them to spend unlimited amounts of money on political campaigns. The decision has been widely criticized for its impact on campaign finance and the influence of money in politics.
Q&A
What are some of the challenges that investigative journalists face when trying to uncover the truth?
Investigative journalists often face challenges such as threats, intimidation, and legal obstacles. They may also have difficulty gaining access to information, especially when dealing with powerful individuals or institutions who are trying to protect their secrets. Additionally, they must be careful to maintain their objectivity and avoid being influenced by their own biases or the biases of their sources.
How do investigative journalists balance the need to expose wrongdoing with the need to protect their sources?
Investigative journalists must carefully consider the potential risks and benefits of revealing their sources. They may need to weigh the public interest in exposing wrongdoing against the potential harm that could come to their sources if their identities are revealed. In some cases, they may need to use anonymous sources or other methods to protect their sources' identities.
What are some of the ethical dilemmas that investigative journalists face?
Investigative journalists often face ethical dilemmas, such as whether to publish information that could harm innocent people, whether to use deception to gather information, and whether to accept gifts or favors from their sources. They must carefully consider the potential consequences of their actions and strive to act in a way that is both ethical and responsible.
How can investigative journalism help us understand complex issues and make informed judgments?
Investigative journalism can help us understand complex issues by providing us with in-depth reporting and analysis. It can also help us make informed judgments by exposing wrongdoing and holding those in power accountable. By providing us with a more complete picture of the world, investigative journalism can empower us to make better decisions about our lives and our communities.
Show Notes
During the 2023 New Yorker Festival, three legendary staff writers got together to discuss the craft of investigative journalism: digging for information like detectives, and then presenting it in a way to rival the best thrillers. For each of these writers, the “bad guy” —whose actions usually set the story in motion – needs to be presented in three dimensions; trusting the reader to grapple with that person’s perspective is key to an engrossing story. “I look at these big, boring issues often, like economic inequality or corruption in politics,” Jane Mayer says. “You take a subject like campaign finance – the Citizens United decision and how it’s corrupted politics. If you can find somebody like [Charles or David] Koch and explain there actually was a billionaire behind so much of this, and he has a story, and he has a family, and there are always screwed-up fathers and sons involved in these families. . . . It means that you’re able to explain the ethical choices people make.” Mayer is best known for her book “Dark Money,” about the Koch brothers; David Grann wrote “Killers of the Flower Moon” and “The Wager,” both best-sellers; and Patrick Radden Keefe covered the Sackler family’s opioid dynasty in “Empire of Pain,” and a murder during the Troubles in Northern Ireland in “Say Nothing.” They were joined by their editor, The New Yorker’s Daniel Zalewski.
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