In our season nine premiere, we welcome Martha Paynter, nurse, scholar and author of Lawless: Abortion Under Complete Decriminalization. We discuss Canada’s complete decriminalization of abortion (the only country to do so), the fascinating and often fraught history that brought us to this point, abortion as a public good, the influence of the anti-choice lobby here and the overturning of Roe vs. Wade in the US, and what it takes to make abortion truly equitable when decriminalization is not enough. 

Reflecting on the need to understand abortion as a public good, Paynter says:

“We have these major cultural forces that just reiterate this idea that abortion is rare and hard. And it's not, it's very normal. It's very common and it takes seven minutes. And actually it will allow you to follow your dreams. Whether that dream is to escape a violent relationship or to finish your graduate degree or whatever. So we do need to have this shift in the way we talk about abortion. And we need to understand abortion, not just as healthcare, but as this force of good in our society.”

About today’s guest: 

Dr. Martha Paynter has worked to advance abortion access in Canada for over 20 years. A writer, nurse and public scholar, she is recognized internationally for her expertise at the nexus of reproductive justice and prisoner health. She is an associate professor at the University of New Brunswick Faculty of Nursing, where her research addresses the health rights of people experiencing incarceration and sexual and reproductive health care in Canada and around the world. She is the author of Abortion to Abolition: Reproductive Health and Justice in Canada (Fernwood, 2017) and has published extensively in national magazines (Chatelaine, Briarpatch) and scientific journals. Paynter is a keen advocate for increasing the influence of women and gender diverse people in news media and participates regularly in interviews with national and international print, radio and TV press (CBC/Radio-Canada, Global, CTV). She values and fosters collaborations with community organizations and lived experience experts in reproductive health and prison justice. Paynter is a recipient of the 150th anniversary medal from the Senate of Canada for her volunteer service to the country (2017) and the King Charles III Coronation Medal for service to the nursing profession (2025).       

Paynter’s latest book, Lawless: Abortion Under Complete Decriminalization is being released this month by Fernwood Publishing.                                                   

Transcript of this episode can be accessed at georgebrown.ca/TommyDouglasInstitute.

Image: Martha Paynter  / Used with permission.

Music: Ang Kahora. Lynne, Bjorn. Rights Purchased. 

Intro Voices: Ashley Booth (Podcast Announcer); Bob Luker (Tommy) 

Courage My Friends Podcast Organizing Committee: Chandra Budhu, Ashley Booth, Resh Budhu. 

Produced by: Resh Budhu, The Tommy Douglas Institute of Labour and Social Justice and Breanne Doyle, rabble.ca. 

Host: Resh Budhu.