Move Happier: How Do You Move On After College Drop-Off? with Author Ben Markovits
1Digest
This podcast features an in-depth conversation with author Ben Markovitz about his novel, "The Rest of Our Lives." The book delves into the complexities of marriage and identity during the "empty nest" phase after children leave home, exploring themes of marital strain, unlived possibilities, and the narrator's introspective journey. Markovitz shares insights into his writing process, character development, and how personal experiences, including health challenges, influenced the narrative. The discussion also touches upon the significance of the novel's title, the author's restrained writing style, and his literary influences. Advertisements for Mill, Whole Foods Market, Spectrum Business, and Quince are also included, along with a reminder about a fitness challenge and an ad for the "IMO" podcast.
Outlines
Introduction, Mill Advertisement, and Whole Foods Market Flavor Tour
The podcast opens with Hasan Minhaj discussing his dislike for food waste and promoting Mill, an odorless food recycler. He then describes a "flavor tour" at Whole Foods Market, highlighting regional cuisines and savings.
Author Ben Markovitz on "The Rest of Our Lives"
The host introduces author Ben Markovitz and his novel, "The Rest of Our Lives," which examines a father's reflections on marriage, identity, and the empty nest stage after his daughter leaves for college. Markovitz provides a synopsis and reads from the opening pages.
Marital Strain, Affairs, and Relationship Dynamics
Markovitz discusses the novel's plot, including the wife's affair and the resulting marital strain. The conversation explores the accumulation of data within a marriage, the acceptance of limitations, and the role of illusions in relationships.
The Uncommunicative Narrator and Writing Process
The author delves into the unique, uncommunicative nature of the novel's narrator and his fascination with such characters. Markovitz also shares his writing process, using a "tuning fork" concept for characters and reflecting on the human desire for more.
Personal Health, Writing, and Meaningful Routines
The discussion touches on the "Four Tendencies" framework and "obligers." Markovitz shares how his own health symptoms influenced the novel's character, Tom, and draws parallels between the routine of chemotherapy and the writing life, emphasizing how illness can shift perspective.
Family, Sickness, and Consolation in Writing
Markovitz explains how his wife's support during his illness fostered a closeness that shifted the novel's tone towards a less "loveless" narrative. Advertisements for Spectrum Business and Quince are interspersed.
Revisiting Whole Foods and Novel Title Significance
The host reiterates their positive experience with Whole Foods Market. Markovitz discusses the evolution of his novel's title from "The Drop-Off" to "The Rest of Our Lives," explaining how the latter captures the book's multifaceted themes.
Writing Productivity, Future Projects, and Core Themes
Markovitz shares his approach to writing, emphasizing focused work and a reward system. He discusses how personal experiences inspire new story ideas and his recurring themes of family and marriage in fiction, exploring the challenge of conveying marriage's weight.
Writing Style, Fiction vs. Nonfiction, and Influences
The author discusses his restrained, plain-spoken writing style, aiming for authenticity. He expresses a unique perspective on borrowing tools from nonfiction for his fiction to create a grounded, memoir-like feel. Influential novels and authors are also discussed.
Recommended Reading, Happiness, and Basketball
Markovitz shares favorite novels and discusses his aversion to themes of unjust accusation. He humorously suggests focusing on activities like basketball for happiness, drawing parallels between the sport's focus and the writing process.
Audience Questions: Influences, The American Road, and Novel Structure
Audience questions begin, focusing on Markovitz's influences and the impact of the American road trip on the psyche. He explains how a road trip structure guided the narrative of "The Rest of Our Lives."
Writing Process, Reviews, and Marital Dynamics
Markovitz describes his process of visualizing scenes and doing justice to their complexity. He discusses his habit of reading reviews and shares a favorite passage highlighting the complex, resentful dynamics within a marriage.
Core Ideas, Conclusion, and Book Recommendation
The author discusses a significant passage about the terror of fundamental life change. The podcast concludes with a strong recommendation for "The Rest of Our Lives" and a reminder about a fitness challenge. An advertisement for the "IMO" podcast is included.
Keywords
Mill
Mill is a food recycler that turns food scraps into nutrient-rich grounds. It is designed to be odorless, guiltless, and effortless, offering a solution for individuals looking to reduce food waste and its associated mess and smell.
Empty Nest Stage
The "empty nest stage" refers to the period in a parent's life when their children have grown up and left home. This transition can lead to reflections on marriage, identity, and the evolving dynamics within the family structure.
Flavor Tour
A "flavor tour" is a concept of exploring different regional cuisines, often by visiting grocery stores like Whole Foods Market. It's a way to make meal planning less predictable and introduce variety into home cooking.
Modest Realist Writer
A "modest realist" writer, as described by Ben Markovitz, focuses on the significance of everyday actions and experiences. This style aims to portray the profound impact of small, ordinary events in life, often with a grounded and unadorned approach.
Four Tendencies
The "Four Tendencies" is a personality framework developed by Gretchen Rubin. It categorizes people into Upholders, Questioners, Obligers, and Rebels based on how they respond to expectations. Understanding these tendencies can offer insights into behavior and motivation.
Obliger Rebellion
In the context of the "Four Tendencies," "Obliger Rebellion" refers to a situation where an Obliger, who typically meets outer expectations, experiences a breaking point and rebels against those expectations. This can manifest as a significant change in behavior or life choices.
Self-Restraint
Self-restraint is the ability to control one's impulses, emotions, and desires. In writing, it can translate to a deliberate choice to avoid overly dramatic or sensational language, aiming for a more measured and authentic tone.
Unlived Possibilities
"Unlived possibilities" refers to the alternative paths or choices not taken in life. Reflecting on these can be a part of personal growth and understanding, often explored in literature as characters contemplate "what if" scenarios and their potential impact.
Ben Markovitz Novel
"The Rest of Our Lives" by Ben Markovitz explores marriage, identity, and the empty nest stage, focusing on a father's reflections after his children leave home.
Writing Process
Ben Markovitz discusses his writing process, emphasizing consistent, focused work, the use of a "tuning fork" for character development, and incorporating personal experiences into his narratives.
Q&A
What is Mill and what are its benefits?
Mill is an odorless and effortless food recycler that transforms food scraps into nutrient-rich grounds. Its primary benefits include reducing food waste, eliminating unpleasant kitchen odors, and simplifying the process of composting.
What is the central theme of Ben Markovitz's novel, "The Rest of Our Lives"?
The novel explores the complexities of a marriage after children leave home, focusing on a father's journey of self-reflection. It delves into themes of identity, marital strain, the empty nest stage, and the unlived possibilities that arise in later life.
How does Ben Markovitz approach writing about marriage and family?
Markovitz often explores marriage and family because he finds these relationships inherently complex and significant. He sometimes uses the removal of these relationships in his narratives to highlight their profound weight and importance to the characters.
What is Markovitz's writing process, and how does he maintain productivity?
Markovitz emphasizes consistent, focused work for about two hours a day. He uses activities like watching basketball as a reward system, ensuring that his dedicated writing time is highly productive and free from distractions.
How did Markovitz incorporate his personal health experiences into his novel?
While writing, Markovitz experienced unexplained health symptoms that he later incorporated into his character, Tom. This personal experience added a layer of authenticity and depth to the novel's exploration of health challenges in middle age.
What is the significance of the title "The Rest of Our Lives"?
The title "The Rest of Our Lives" is significant because it encompasses multiple meanings within the novel: the period of a marriage after children leave, the individual's life outside of family, and the exploration of unlived possibilities and future choices.
What advice does Ben Markovitz offer for a happier, healthier, or more creative life?
Markovitz suggests engaging in activities that require focused concentration and offer achievable goals, using basketball shooting as an example. He believes this laser-like focus, followed by a sense of accomplishment, contributes to happiness and mental clarity.
What are some of Ben Markovitz's favorite novels and literary influences?
Markovitz admires "Goodbye to All That" by Robert Graves, "The Scarlet Letter" by Nathaniel Hawthorne, and "Pnin" by Vladimir Nabokov. He also cites Philip Roth as a significant influence, particularly appreciating the tension between Roth's upbringing and his expressive desires.
Show Notes
As part of the Move 26 in ’26 Challenge, we’re sharing a bonus episode designed to pair with your 26 minutes of daily movement.
In this episode, I talk with writer Ben Markovits about his acclaimed new novel, “The Rest of Our Lives” (available at bit.ly/4lbfDTq). The novel follows the journey and reflections of a father who is driving his daughter to college—and then keeps going.
Reminder: as an exclusive offer for “Happier” listeners, you can get 2 weeks FREE plus a special discount to the Activations app at activations.com/happier. These guided audios are designed to help you feel motivated, confident, and in charge of your life.
Resources & links related to this episode:
Get in touch: podcast@gretchenrubin.com
Visit Gretchen's website to learn more about Gretchen's best-selling books, products from The Happiness Project Collection, and the Happier app.
Find the transcript for this episode on the episode details page in the Apple Podcasts app.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Table of contents
United States
