Poetry as religion
Digest
This podcast delves into the search for transcendence in a modern, secular world, where religion is declining and the sacred seems to be fading from human life. The episode features Jennifer Michael Hecht, a poet and historian, who explores the intersection of these disciplines. She discusses her book "The Wonder Paradox," which reimagines religious concepts like prayer and ritual in a secular context. Hecht argues that we can find meaning and connection through secular practices like poetry and art, embracing the weirdness of existence and connecting with the poetry of our lives. The conversation explores the power of poetry and ritual in providing meaning and connection, highlighting how poetry can act as a form of prayer, offering a space for reflection and transcendence. The episode concludes with Jennifer reflecting on the greatest reward of a life filled with poetry, emphasizing the freedom and emotional liberation that comes from embracing the weirdness of existence and connecting with the poetry of our lives.
Outlines
Transcendence in a Secular World
This episode explores the concept of transcendence and its connection to religion in a modern, secular world. It discusses the decline of religion and the potential loss of the sacred in human life.
Jennifer Michael Hecht: Poet and Historian
This episode introduces Jennifer Michael Hecht, a poet and historian who explores the intersection of these disciplines. She discusses her book "The Wonder Paradox," which reimagines religious concepts like prayer and ritual in a secular context.
The Wonder Paradox: Embracing the Weirdness of Existence
Jennifer explains her book "The Wonder Paradox," which aims to reclaim the emotional and spiritual aspects of religion without relying on supernatural beliefs. She argues that we can find meaning and connection through secular practices like poetry and art.
The Power of Poetry and Ritual
The conversation delves into the power of poetry and ritual in providing meaning and connection. Jennifer discusses how poetry can act as a form of prayer, offering a space for reflection and transcendence.
The Greatest Reward of a Life Filled with Poetry
Jennifer concludes by reflecting on the greatest reward of a life filled with poetry. She emphasizes the freedom and emotional liberation that comes from embracing the weirdness of existence and connecting with the poetry of our lives.
Keywords
Transcendence
A state of being beyond the ordinary, often associated with spiritual or religious experiences. It involves a sense of connection to something greater than oneself, a feeling of awe, wonder, and enlightenment.
Secular Ritual
Practices or ceremonies that hold symbolic meaning and promote a sense of community, but are not tied to religious beliefs. Examples include holidays, celebrations, and artistic expressions.
Interfaithless
A term coined by Jennifer Michael Hecht to describe individuals who embrace the interconnectedness of humanity and engage in rituals and practices that transcend religious boundaries.
Poetry of Life
The inherent beauty, wonder, and meaning found in everyday experiences, even in the face of suffering and absurdity. It emphasizes the power of language, art, and human connection to create a sense of the sacred.
The Wonder Paradox
The idea that the strangeness and absurdity of existence can be a source of wonder and meaning. It challenges the notion that meaning requires a supernatural explanation and encourages us to embrace the mystery of life.
Q&A
How can we find meaning and connection in a secular world that is becoming less religious?
Jennifer suggests that we can reclaim the emotional and spiritual aspects of religion through secular practices like poetry, art, and ritual. These practices can provide a sense of transcendence, community, and meaning without relying on supernatural beliefs.
What is the power of poetry and ritual in providing meaning and connection?
Poetry can act as a form of prayer, offering a space for reflection and transcendence. Rituals, both secular and religious, can create a sense of community, shared experience, and emotional connection.
What is the greatest reward of a life filled with poetry?
Jennifer believes that a life filled with poetry offers freedom and emotional liberation. By embracing the weirdness of existence and connecting with the poetry of our lives, we can live more fully and authentically.
Show Notes
Sean Illing speaks with poet and historian Jennifer Michael Hecht, whose book The Wonder Paradox asks: If we don't have God or religion, what — if anything — do we lose? They discuss how religion accesses meaning — through things like prayer, ceremony, and ritual — and Jennifer speaks on the ways that poetry can play similar roles in a secular way. They also discuss some of the "tricks" that poets use, share favorite poems, and explore what it would mean to "live the questions" — and even learn to love them — without having the answers.
Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area
Guest: Jennifer Michael Hecht (@Freudeinstein), poet, historian; author
References:
The Wonder Paradox: Embracing the Weirdness of Existence and the Poetry of Our Lives by Jennifer Michael Hecht (FSG; 2023)
Doubt: A History by Jennifer Michael Hecht (HarperOne; 2004)- Rainer Maria Rilke, from a 1903 letter to Franz Kappus, published in Letters to a Young Poet (pub. 1929)
Leaves of Grass by Walt Whitman (1855)
"Why do parrots live so long?" by Charles Q. Choi (LiveScience; May 23, 2022)- "The survival of poetry depends on the failure of language," from The Tree of Meaning: Language, Mind, and Ecology by Robert Bringhurst (Counterpoint; 2009)
"Traveler, There Is No Road" ("Caminante, no hay camino") by Antonio Machado (1917)
"A Free Man's Worship" by Bertrand Russell (1903)
Totality and Infinity: An Essay on Exteriority by Emmanuel Levinas (1961)
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