Rachel Kaplan - Healing As Easy As A Good Morning Sh*T
Donnie B.: All right, guys. I got to tell you, strap it in for today because I met this gal at a freaking summit and her whole presentation had me cracking the fuck up. I just love her vibe. I love her energy. This is going to be a fun one. So I'm bringing in Rachel Kaplan.
I'm Donnie Boivin. This is Donnie’s Success Champions.
Donnie B.: Rachel. Okay. So my dear, please, tell us your story.
Rachel K.: Oh, thanks for having me and botching my name. I love it.
Donnie B.: It's awesome. It's awesome. That's how you know you got a professional podcast host when he just totally blows your name completely up.
Rachel K.: Love it. It doesn't matter, right? Yeah. So my story and I'm assuming you mean like the deep, dark, real story, right?
Donnie B.: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, can you do me a favor?
Rachel K.: Sure.
Donnie B.: Because you just launched a really badass podcast.
Rachel K.: I did.
Donnie B.: What's the chance you could pull off your pitch for our listeners really quickly?
Rachel K.: Oh my God. I know it by heart.
Donnie B.: Fucking, guys. Listen to this. Absolute fun and let it rip.
Rachel K.: We're going to start with the pitch. I'm going to take my mic out of the stand for this one.
So success folks, what did you do to make that feeling go away this morning that you had to poop? Did you buy something? Eat something? Did you post something on social media to try to get enough likes? Or did you go to the nearest bathroom and take a poop?
I'm guessing you did number two, literally, because you're potty-trained. So you know that that is the only way to make the feeling that you need to poop go away.
But unfortunately, you are not emotionally potty-trained. So you, like me and so much of our culture waste countless hours, money, energy, effort trying to medicate and distract yourself out of your painful human emotions and it just doesn't work. When instead, you could just learn to let those hard feelings move through you like a good poop.
I'm Rachel Kaplan, a successful psychotherapist and the host of the new and noteworthy podcast, The Healing Feeling Shit Show and I've got sad news, happy news and amazing news.
The sad news is that when I was just 14, my first love committed suicide and that loss devastated my life. The happy news is it set me on a relentless pursuit to study the world's healing technologies. And the amazing news is that I have streamlined the single most effective and necessary skill that you, Donnie and your listeners need in order to have real well-being, true healing, let go of imposter syndrome and live the life of your dreams and it's as simple as fucking potty training.
Let's collaborate. Join the feelings movement and let's flush this shit out together.
Donnie B.: Oh, that's so fucking awesome. All right. So imagine you're in a room where you got tons of people pitching to try and get on your podcast and somebody like Rachel steps in and drops that on you. If you got a show like mine, you're fucking bringing her on. I mean, that's all there is to it.
Rachel K.: Yeah. Super glad to be here and that was an amazing experience. It was a powerful thing to meet so many people really at the heart of their story and their mission and then to see how people do under pressure because it’s a lot of pressure to do something like that in front of 200 people and it really showed me, “Buckle up girl!”
Donnie B.: Or as my people would tell you, “Suck it up, Buttercup. It's about to get real.”
Rachel K.: Nice. I like that.
Donnie B.: All right.
Rachel K.: I mean, I just referenced my story but really, I mean, I was your average semi-secure, sensitive, awkward, almost teenager. I would say that this is not where all of my challenges and issues started. I was just growing up like everybody was growing up. But the first person that I really became obsessed with, in love with, just wanted to be with all the time, he was really kind of all I cared about and it started when I was 12, was this boy, this young boy named Keith and we were together for a couple of years. We were friends. And he was like, handsome, athletic, sarcastic, hilarious, the class clown, popular, all those things, right?
And then in 1994, when we were both 14, this whole kind of situation unraveled where I thought he was going to maybe go to a drug rehab for a couple of months. But and I'm not going to spoil this story because actually, Episode 4 of The Healing Feeling Shit Show is the narrative in full glory.
Donnie B.: Nice, shameless plug.
Rachel K.: I mean, I don't get anything from you hearing that. But you’re going to have a much more beautiful, you're going to have a big, old, sappy cry kind of poop that day. When you listen to it, you're going to have your heart broken for your 14-year-old self.
Anyway, basically, I was the subject of his suicide note.
Donnie B.: Oh, fuck!
Rachel K.: And yeah. He killed himself and I actually put my life on the line. I felt quite trapped in the situation. It's funny. I'm kind of like leaning over to the left because I'm trying to avoid this glare in my room. If I look like I'm falling over, it's just the light.
So I did everything I could. I didn't know what to do. I was a child but I basically discovered that I thought that the best option to try to stop him was to tell him that I would kill myself also.
And so I did that. I told him that. I told him I'd never forgive him and still, the next morning, I woke up to, and it took me some effort to find the suicide note because it was left in his house and his family didn't understand it. It was cryptic. Only I understood it.
But basically, his suicide note meant, “Make sure my sun still shines.” Our nicknames were sunshine. So make sure that I don't commit suicide also. But no one knew that but I did.
So that, I mean, talk about, I'll fuck you up, right?
Donnie B.: Yeah. Real quick.
Rachel K.: I think suicide is just utterly devastating for anyone at any age. It's really, and I'm not going to get into how far out and metaphysical I am but just so your listeners know and if anyone's drawn to this, it's also devastating for the person who does it and I do think part of my mission now as I harvest the gifts of this brutal journey that started in so much pain is to plug for the whole world that maybe suicide actually isn't an end to the pain.
We won't go there because everyone believes what they believe about what death is and what's on the other side or not. But it's devastating for everyone involved and it took me a while. For a lot of years, I just felt like, “Well, I had to do this. I had to kind of start studying these healing modalities. I had to move toward relief and wellness.” But it was really a choice. I should give myself credit.
I could have become a drug addict, right? I could have committed suicide myself. I could have … I did try things like moving into the recesses of my very quick mind for a few years. That was fun. Became bitchy and jaded and sarcastic and all kinds of methods to avoid this pain. But basically, I'd say, by the end of high school, I started coming back down the long 6 inches, 8 inches, what do you think? How long is my neck? I'm not sure.
Donnie B.: 24.
Rachel K.: 24 inches. We got a giraffe over here. I just started descending the length of my neck metaphorically back into my body where I really was pretty devastated and in pain and that was the beginning of a long journey, a very long journey and what's cool about what I'm doing with this and feel free to just wink at me if you want me to shut up.
Donnie B.: I got you. I got you.
Rachel K.: Okay. Is that, it really did lead me all over the world and part of in the last year, it's been almost exactly a year since I've been making my podcast and getting it out. What I've harvested, what I've realized in the kind of offering this into the world is like, I really have been at this for 25 years and my journey specifically brought me to, I lived in Nepal for a year. That's the little tiny country between, where Mount Everest is, between China and India, for anyone who doesn't know or didn't understand what I said.
There, I started studying yoga and the Eastern traditions pretty young. Started teaching yoga by 22. Majored in Eastern religions, learned all kinds of like, what does the East have to offer as far as healing?
And then I have a master's in counseling psychology and did all the training. I've done all the cutting edge modalities and trainings in Western psychology. And the person who is the most fucking helpful, really like the person I owe my well-being, my happiness, my life to, is someone who calls himself a traditional song healer.
You’re probably like, “What is that?”
Donnie B.: I have no idea what that even means.
Rachel K.: Yeah. I mean, the best thing, the word that will peak the closest association for your listeners and for you is shaman. He’s someone who’s become deeply initiated into a native path and who is like a very gifted healer. I'd say he’s one of the most powerful healers alive on the planet. But he would hate that I'm talking about him on the Internet.
I've agreed to him to not use his name. But really, the work I did with him, which was pretty badass. I mean, I have brought forth fire with a bow drill set that I fucking carved myself. I've been like on international like rock and roll tour by myself and bringing forth the fire, carving a set and bringing forth the fire is still the coolest thing I've ever done.
The healing technologies that he had and the way he confronted me and showed me all the ways that I was still in pain and still acting out from that pain really changed my life. And there's a whole magic to it. Just one thing, I already mentioned this. This is a side note, but I happen to be a divorcee which I highly recommend.
Donnie B.: I highly recommend. Wow!
Rachel K.: And just one thing is, if someone says they’re divorced, probably the right answer is, “Congratulations.” Because we're also conditioned and so much of what I'm helping people understand is, how to relate to the conditioning that we have. We’re also conditioned to think that what makes people happy is, achieving these list of what our society gives us. Like, the white picket fence, the this, the that, the this, the that.
And if it's not the right marriage, if it's not the right job, if it's not the right, it doesn't matter how great you look on Instagram. If you don't feel happy inside like really happy inside or really solid inside, then you're living a lie and you know it, right?
But anyway …
Donnie B.: Okay. Let's jump in. You got a fun shit. We're going to have some fun here.
Rachel K.: Just the one thing I want to tell you. The reason I was working so hard with that healer is because I was in this beautiful but very challenged marriage and the day that I finally and organically without any effort, like I wasn't trying to control this, left the marriage was the 22-year anniversary of that young boy's death.
And I was scheduled to move into this apartment on a Monday, but it was really rainy. So we pushed the movers and I pushed it back and I ended up moving out of my marital home on the dead boyfriend's birthday.
So all I'm saying is, there is a magic in the universe and got me full circle to be able to offer what I'm offering and thank you, Donnie for letting me finish that story.
Donnie B.: No, that’s awesome.
Rachel K.: I’m ready now.
Donnie B.: All right. So if you remember anything about me at the thing, I am not a big woo-woo guy. I so loved how many people were talking about the woo-woo stuff at that event. It was quite humorous to me.
I mean, even so far as that I had a couple of people there try to do some of their woo-woo stuff on me to get on my show and none of it worked. I mean, but it was still funny to watch them try.
But I say all that to say, I'm not a complete skeptic. I do believe in some of the stuff. I couldn't tell you what it is that I believe in, right?
So, God, what a fucking crazy ass ride.
Rachel K.: Yeah.
Donnie B.: What made you decide to go overseas?
Rachel K.: You know, I was in high school and my mom went back to college to finish college while I was in high school and she was in this Easternreligions class and she was like, “You know Rachel, I think you might be a Hindu.”
She was wrong and I had a huge moment actually while I was living over there. It was Christmas and I was at a Hindu ashram and they were doing this whole Jesus thing and I was like, what the hell am I doing here?
Like, I'll never be a Hindu. I'm not a Buddhist. Even no matter how dope your meditation practice is. I'm a Jew. Like, why am I so far from exploring the actual roots I have?
What I was looking for, I would say that this experience really made me question, what is reality and how can there be God? How can the universe be good or be safe when something like this happens? And there's all kinds of books like, When Bad Things Happen to Good People.
It's just like, if we're really awake to just know woo-woo, just like you're living in the world. It's hard to grok how there's so much pain and there's so much suffering and inequality and all these things and so in some way, I kind of put my, what I had been raised to believe was God and the Jewish world or the Jewish religion on hold.
I was like, “No, I don't believe this.” And I was just looking for some answers and also, I'd say, Judaism has a kind of hidden mystical side. And so I was looking for something that felt more explicitly alive and one thing just to speak to the woo-woo, I mean, it's funny because I'm like the real deal in the sense of, I've actually studied all that shit.
I speak Nepali. I’ve deeply delved into these different traditions and I can't stand when people lead with that. I mean, especially like on dating apps. Like when a guy looks like they're just like, they just can't wait to tell me how spiritual they are. I kind of want to puke in my mouth.
Like, I think if you’re really spiritual, it means that you're a good person. You don't have to brag about it. You're showing up to your life. You're functioning well in the world and it's like a very personal, private connection that does not need to be on display.
Donnie B.: Well, it's even funner when you happen to find yourself at a place where somebody automatically starts reading what your horoscope and they're way off and wrong. And when you tell them they’re wrong, they get really pissed off.
Rachel K.: Yeah. Very spiritual right there.
Donnie B.: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they're completely into their … so it's amazing that, I don't know, some people carry their stuff around like it's a flag or a badge of honor that they've done something, you know? And it doesn't define you but some people want it to.
Rachel K.: Right. Yeah. Yeah and this experience right now being so deep in the energy of the podcast and what I'm doing there, it’s interesting because it definitely connects me more to that suicide. But probably as recently as five or seven years ago, like most of my friends knew nothing about the story.
I mean, it was a cool experience to go from being so defined by that to really like, not actually defining myself by that at all. And now, I'm kind of in this place where I'm holding both which is like, this really did impact my whole life. It changed the entire trajectory.
I mean, I could be a fucking accountant. Who knows? Like, who knows what I would be? And I can't even regret it. I would never regret that it happened in the sense of, that would be regretting who I am and what I'm doing in the world and I also hold that it was really devastating. It really actually made a lot of things really hard and so to be able to be with both, the gift and also the challenge. It was a terrible burden that ends up being profoundly useful for hundreds of people and hopefully now, more than that.
Donnie B.: Well, I'm a firm believer that everybody goes through something and it shapes them. It doesn't mean they were meant to go through it but it damn sure shapes their journey of who they become and oftentimes, you can look back on things and at least in theory, go, “Well, that taught me this.”
Rachel K.: Right.
Donnie B.: It doesn't mean it necessarily taught you that but you can take a lesson away from it.
Rachel K.: If not, you're asleep.
Donnie B.: Huh?
Rachel K.: And if not, you’re asleep.
Donnie B.: I agree. Well, most people avoid a challenge altogether. They don't want to step into it, right? They don't want to, 1, relive it because it's too traumatic, horrifying, whatever. They're not looking for the lesson, right? Or the flipside of it, they won't create challenges in their life moving forward because they're afraid of what they may discover once they put themselves in that situation.
Rachel K.: Right.
Donnie B.: How did you come up with this whole shit? You know, thought theory.
Rachel K.: Yeah. Well, I’ll tell you one second. But I just want to speak to what you just said because it's really powerful which is, it's true like what you just spoke to is really at the heart of what I'm teaching with the Shit Show which is that if we are trying to avoid our pain and it makes sense that we are. It's the best strategy all of us have come up with. There's some biological and kind of early childhood origins for trying to avoid our pain and then our economy is literally funded by us believing that if we buy the next thing, we’ll feel worthy.
And so all of the messages everywhere are not, “Go have your pain.” They’re, “You need this and you'll feel better if you do this and this and this.” And so what that does create, if we have that fear of our pain, our emotional shit, what I'd say, we can't actually live our lives. We can't take risks. Those people are not going to be blowing up their businesses. They're not going to be ragingly successful. They're not going to be willing and brave enough to fall in love because all those things become terrible risks and what I think the outcome of someone who learns how to feel their feelings and go through this deep healing journey that I'm creating or just deals with themselves in whatever way, is emotional resilience.
And I say that emotional resilience is the new happy. It's better than happy because it's like, if you do the healing work, I feel pretty happy a lot of the time. But no one's going to be happy all the time if you're alive.
We're all going to die. We're going to lose our cellphones. Shitty things happen. It's like, that's not what life is. Life is not a journey of only happy but if you know and I know that I can handle any feeling that comes because I can move it through me like a good poop, then I can actually be who I am. I can take these big risks. I can put myself out there because I know that when it gets hard, I'll just deal with it and that's what emotional resilience is and I think it’s like, ultimately liberating.
Donnie B.: No, I love it. I love it. It's interesting is the years I spent in the sales training game. I did a lot of study on rejection because I was really trying to find the way to work with the people that I was training to get them out of their own way so they could actually go have a fucking conversation.
It's all a sales call is. It's just damn conversation, right? And it was interesting. They actually tracked rejection as far back as the cavemen. And here's the thing. Back in the day with all the dinosaurs and shit, I just thought this was fascinating, is if you got rejected from the tribe of people, you were out on your own and that was dead, right?
And it's an interesting concept and it was funny to stand in front of a room and go, “Dude, this shit is ingrained in you.”
Rachel K.: Yes.
Donnie B.: You got to step into it and move forward and knowing that shit's going to happen. I love saying shit a lot because you got me saying it because of your show.
Rachel K.: Yeah. I talked about that in the same exact construct in the second episode which is like, how do we get so wounded? And it is like that. That confluence of that in our cells, in our nervous systems. We’re wired to feel like if we lose love, it's death and there was some truth there, right? Like an unloved, untended baby could die, right?
Donnie B.: Right.
Rachel K.: There's all kinds of science studies that are backing it and that's what informs a field of psychology today called Attachment Theory about just how important that secured attachment is. But if you combine that with the fact that we were raised by flawed humans who are doing their best and their parents were probably even having a harder time than they were.
So what we are going to do is we're going to be conditioned based on that biology of, we’ll die if we're not loved to be who we think our parents need us to be and the degree of like, subtle messaging there and the degree of a little infant’s effort to do whatever it takes to stay close to the parent is so deep that what I say is, we kind of take all these parts of us and start pushing them down into the basement, right?
So if you're a little boy and you cry a lot and your dad keeps telling you, I mean, this is the classic, right? About boys don't cry or don't be sensitive or even when parents just are like, “Shhh. You're okay. You're okay. Shhh.”
It's like, there is this messaging not to feel and then you tap on middle school and high school and then our society is like, we have all these parts of us and the most impactful ones, the ones that really screw people up are the ones that get pushed down so early but we have all these parts of us that are pushed down into the psychological basement where we're trying to hide them at the dinner party or in the locker room or on a date and those parts, because they're not part of us because we don't show them, because we can't be loved for them and with them, despite them, we end up feeling like they make us worthless or unlovable. Like, we’re not enough or we’re too much.
Some kind of inherent core wound that makes us feel like if people knew us well enough, they wouldn't love us and we suck.
Donnie B.: Yeah, I love it because one of the reasons I launched this show was, I grew up on inspirational messages. That was my go-to. Give me the good after-school PBS special or something, right? That was my thing.
And when I launched this show, I want to hear what everybody else overcame and because somewhere along my journey, I don't know what happened. I realized that what you went through and the minute you can share that story to other people is one of the most life-changing things you can do is share what you've been through because your healing or you may still be going through the healing process, helps somebody else on their journey and that to me is one of the most amazing things in the world. But people are so scared of that past of what people will think of them. Go back to the rejection side of things, right?
They don't want to share what they've been through for fear of what may happen.
Rachel K.: Right. Yeah and then we never can realize that we're lovable even though we're lovable with and when we push all those parts of us, whether it's what we've been through or just what we thought was wrong with us down, we're not going to create a life that serves us as well.
And so the early journey and I'm going to come back to your question about, how did I come up with the Shit Show model but the early journey of healing is really about getting very curious about, who's in the basement? Who have you pushed down? Who are you trying to hide and how can you make them the VIP?
I recommend one simple, fun, awkward thing your listeners can do is put a picture of you at the most awkward space. Like, a young picture where you were sure that you were really just like, not okay yet.
Donnie B.: So that was my entire elementary years.
Rachel K.: Yeah.
Donnie B.: All of them combined.
Rachel K.: A most horrifically awkward and cutest picture of you and put it on your home screen and every time you look at it, explore. Can you turn toward that part of you? Can you look at it without that repulsion or aversion and just be like, “Oh look, I was so cute.” And start to kind of welcome it and basically, to heal these parts that the shortcut and I describe these things at length in various places but like, you got to turn them from the part that's like sequestered and the problem, the scapegoat into the VIP and when you do that, because like, in the beginning, yeah, our parents shaped us and there's lots of people who can be angry or play the victim card.
But once you're a grown-ass adult, which I think most people probably on this podcast listening to this are, it's like, nobody's going to do it for you and nobody can do it for you.
So it's your job. You are the person who kept that part of you in the basement the rest of your life. And so it's your job to reestablish trust with this part that's like, “Who the fuck are you, Donnie? I don't know you at all.” That was awkward. Whatever it is.
Donnie B.: But that's complete ownership, right? I mean, that is truly taking ownership of your life which is one of the scariest things in the face of the earth for people. I’m always correlating shit back to sales because that's my game but early in my career, my years, I mean, it was always somebody else's fault.
The company wasn't providing enough marketing. The economy sucked or whatever else and it wasn't until somewhere along that journey, I got to the point where I said, “Fuck! Quit blaming everybody else and suck it up, Buttercup and get after it!”
Rachel K.: Yeah. Well, that's another place where the shit metaphor is so perfect because, can I poop your food out for you?
Donnie B.: No.
Rachel K.: I can’t. No matter how much I might co-dependently want to. So here's the deal, you asked me where this came from and it's like, I told you I did all the study. It's been a long journey.
I've been a professional paid psychotherapist and gotten paid somewhere because you know, I'm in the beginning of, I need all your books and supports on how you actually monetize a podcast. But I've been doing that work for 13 years and doing my own healing work for 25 and so what I came to understand is the single best metaphor for any person to get how they needed to learn to relate to their emotions is pooping because as I said in my pitch, even though I know not everybody has an easy time pooping just like people can't cry, people can't cum, there's all kinds of things that organic mechanisms our bodies have to keep us in homeostasis get messed up because we get messed up, right?
But basically, I'm going to put out the theory that you have an easier time pooping than you do crying and shaking when you're afraid and dealing responsibly with your anger.
So generally, we know that when we have to poop, that's the only way to not have to poop is to poop and it's actually literally the same, not metaphorically the same. It's actually the same that the only way to truly feel better whether we're anxious or we suddenly get really mad or we’re heartbroken is to allow that feeling to come out of the body.
Take the letter ‘e’ off the word emotion. What do you have?
Donnie B.: Motion.
Rachel K.: Motion. It means, to move and everyone that I start working with in the beginning, they say to me, “But if I feel my pain, if I feel my sadness, I'll never stop crying. I'm going to drown in it.” And it's a very natural fear. But unless someone just experienced a death or a breakup, let's put on a timer. Let's see if you can cry for more than two minutes.
It's actually tremendously hard. It takes like a lot of strength and a certain kind of, a lot of what I'm teaching, the reason why the cliché or metaphor bumper sticker level, “Have your feelings. Join the feelings movement,” isn't enough. The reason why I actually put in hours and hours into creating a course and now, I'm putting all kinds of support to that course is that it's actually really hard to do if you spent most of your life trying to not have your feelings and what are some ways people might not have feelings?
It's like, drugs, alcohol, buying. I mean, the white things behind me right now. It's like a closet full of sweaters. Every time I had a feeling, that's my drug of choice.
It's like, I buy pretty clothes. I love clothes but we all have these things that are go-to. Whether it's porn or success. How many people are trying to think that if you have a beefed-up enough LinkedIn profile or you have enough promotion, do you have enough money in the account, you're going to feel better about yourself?
Well, surprise! Why do we see so many incredibly-amazing, talented, successful, pinnacle of our society kind of artists and creators committing suicide or dying through overdose? It's because none of that shit works and what a devastating moment when you reach the top of that ladder, you’re then alienated because you're famous and people are weird with you and you're still in terrible pain.
And so what this whole mission is like, “Look guys, we have a way to understand it. Every single CEO and business person and political leader and woo-woo person and skeptic, everyone poops. It is actually as grounded as it could be. It's not woo-woo.”
It's like our bodies, we sweat, we poop. If we get a cut, the body knows how to heal it. Of course, the emotional system has a mechanism as well. And so it's really just the way to help people understand it. And the last thing I'll say about how I came up with the metaphor is that it's very intentional that I'm choosing something that is shrouded in shame. Like if I dropped a really stinky deuce, I wouldn't be like, “I really want you to smell it. Come here.”
And because there's a little bit of shame we have, hopefully, we don't advertise their shit. We don't shit with other people in the room. Although, I have. It’s a great way to ruin a chemistry.
And so there's some shame about pooping but I think there's actually less shame about that than there is around the parts that don't feel like they're enough or that feel worthless.
And so I'm intentionally bridging something and then putting it, I mean, the end of my jingle is a flush. It's an amazing jingle. It was the first thing I did. I’m like, “I'm making a podcast.” I love music. So I'm like, “I’m making a podcast.” And I wrote and sang a jingle. It’s awesome. You got to hear it. It'll get stuck in your head though.
I'm kind of putting this whole information, this journey in lightness, in humor. Every episode has a story and all of the listeners, guys, I’m running out of poop stories. I need your poop story.
Basically, each episode has a really funny, whoops, I pooped my pants kind of or something similar.
Donnie B.: I'll send you one because it involves an RV and extracting the poop out of the RV. I've got it. I'll get that story to you.
Rachel K.: So putting it in lightness. The truth is, this is really heavy where becoming able to feel our pain can be scary but it's like, it's not a big deal. It's no bigger deal than your next poop. Like, we don't look at each poop to say, will all of my poops be like this? Or what does it mean about me that I pooped. I pooped yesterday. What if the guys find out I'm pooping every day?
People don't think that but we do about our feelings. Oh man, I'm crying again? What's wrong with me? And so I'm trying to be like, lighten up the whole field around it, reduce the shame because that's the only way we're going to not keep doing these horrific acts.
Donnie B.: Let me challenge this just a little bit because I love where this is all coming from. I really truly do. But I've been pooping since I came out of the womb.
Rachel K.: Nice.
Donnie B.: Right? Everybody is. And shit, I'm good at it. Give me a good strong cup of black coffee and life is good, right?
Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Totally. So it's natural. It comes to me, right? It's clockwork.
Rachel K.: Right. Yeah.
Donnie B.: Working on yourself is not.
Rachel K.: But it’s not working on yourself. It's not like a new age course in the sense of like reflecting. What I'm saying is that the emotions, so the way I describe emotions is they’re clusters of sensation rolling in squads.
Donnie B.: All right.
Rachel K.: So they're like, they're really intense sensations that when you get angry, you might feel a lot of heat rising. Your forearms might swell. You might have tightness in the muscular structure.
Donnie B.: So like in the movie, Inside Out. Which one of those little characters is this?
Rachel K.: There was an anger character, right?
Donnie B.: Yeah. The little red dude.
Rachel K.: What I'm saying and because people have been trying to not, they haven't been feeling for so long. There is work you need to do. I see what you're saying, but I'm saying, if we can get the body back into and the ability, the emotional system back into its organic kind of how it’s intended to serve us, what it will mean is, you start and I'll come back to, there's something important about how to deal with people who have a backlog of log.
Donnie B.: Did you sit around and just see how many puns you can come up with?
Rachel K.: Not necessarily. But I will tell you that I'm getting, I am now, I've always been associated with the band, Radiohead and rainbows. So those are my brands where people, they send me pictures of rainbows.
I'm like, how did I do this? This is like stunning branding.
Donnie B.: Did you start getting pictures of shit coming to you?
Rachel K.: I'm at least getting the poop emoji’s. People are like, “I thought about you on the toilet today.” And you know what? I love it.
Yeah. So if we can get our bodies back to that state where we don't have that massive backlog, then it will mean that when something happens that throws us off, our body will send us the signal. Very much like you get a signal when you need to shit. You have these sensations you know how to identify.
So you would get a set of sensations that you need to identify or that you could identify that, “Oh, I think I need to cry.” And once you start these practices, like I have practices, Episode 7 through 10, and I'm going to give your listeners a way to kind of dive right into the action and try it out which I'll tell you about but like, they each break down one of the feelings.
So anger is where I start. It's the most taboo emotion and one of the ways, I mean, certainly, the thing I've done that was the best for me is chopping wood, dead wood with an ax and I've taken two dozen of my clients out to the woods with axes and taught them how to chop wood. But you can also simulate chopping on your bed.
You’d take a towel or a blanket and you beat the shit out of your bed or your cabinet.
Donnie B.: Oh, shit. If somebody wants some work, come out to the farm. I got plenty of trees that need to be taken down. We’ll chop some logs up. I'll put their asses to work and we'll work on your anger.
Rachel K.: Yeah. Then they also have to work on probably hitting the wood in the certain place.
Donnie B.: Oh, yeah. And then stack it and then clean everything up and put all the tools away.
Rachel K.: Yeah. All physical activity is actually really good for anger work. So there are certain things you do when you need to have an anger tantrum and there are ways to do it when you're in a car. There are ways to do it on a walk. There's ways to do it at the gym and then there are certain things, a different kind of energy.
So anger, what do we want to do when we are angry? We want to destroy. We want to explode. It's like an external energetic, right? Not to get too woo-woo. But what happens when we cry, right? Or when we're sad?
It's like, we want to collapse. Water literally drips out of our face. It's a downward energy. It's a slowing down. It’s a swampy pulling energy.
And so to move that, you have to do a different set of activities. You can't do great sadness work after you've had caffeine because you're like, “I feel great.” That's why we all love caffeine but caffeine is fine for anger work, but for sadness work, it's about slowing down. It's about, how do you swaddle yourself? Whether it's in your bed or in a bathtub with warm water and sad music. Like, how do you create that kind of containment where you actually can start to open up to how sad you are?
And the same thing, fear and shame are the deeper layers. Fear is tricky because it's both explosive and implosive and so you have to either kind of have a frenetic fear party where you just twitch and shake. That's what animals do, literally. They shake when they're in … once they reach safety after trauma, they will just shake it until they feel better or with fear, sometimes, we feel paralyzed, right? We can't move or so we feel helpless and then that would be more of a crying release.
So it's like, what I'm actually teaching you is, how do you actually tune into the way these sensations need to move? It's not in the head. It's not in our fancy thoughts. It's like being in the body where we can feel the thing that rises and needs to move just like your poop and then it's over.
Donnie B.: So here's an interesting thing, is and I love this analogy. This whole thing is actually pretty cool. But through high school, I was an asshole. I was a guy invited to the parties because of the stupid shit that I was doing and a lot of times, it ended up in freaking some stupid high school fight of some sort.
So I went to see a counselor on my parents’ recommendation. This dumbass counselor looked at me and said, “Here's what I want you to do. Every time your anger fills up, I want you to grab an ice cube and slam it against the wall so it shatters into a million pieces.” He’s like, “The other thing I want you to do is, if you don't have any more ice cubes, I want you to punch your pillow.” This is the two things he tells me.
Let me tell you, I chunked a hundred ice cubes, I punched the shit out of my pillow, it didn't slow anything down.
Rachel K.: Yeah. Well, I want to do therapy with you. But what do you think was going wrong for you? Why were you so angry?
Donnie B.: It was upbringing and everything else. But it's, I just, I struggle with people putting and I'm not saying you put a blanket over everything but the same methodology doesn't work for everybody.
Rachel K.: Yeah. Well, there was also, yeah. That's not the whole picture and one of the … so one of the episodes where I get most into strategy, the next episode is like troubleshooting.
I'm like, “Yeah, that sounded easy. It's not and here are all the problems you’re going to have.” And one of the things I speak to is, it's not a fix-all. Now, the truth is, it's not a fix-all but anyone who can't have their feelings is going to definitely be not well.
Just like if you weren't shitting, you wouldn't be healthy. It's not possible to be healthy if you're repressing all your feelings. But it doesn't mean that having your feelings is always enough.
I mean, I think that what I'm outlining for people is always going to be tailorable and unique to that person which is why ideally, that's why this is like a fun adventure of, how do I make this very personalized work something that I can share with a massive group of people?
I mean, we're coming up on 20,000 downloads at five weeks in and how do I make it useful for them? And also, how do I make myself available? And how do I help people kind of work with this?
So that's been a fun creative project for me. But like part of it is, the feelings. The skill that I'm teaching is the feelings but the other piece and what I would have wanted to do with you if I was with you back then is really explore what was going on.
I mean, you were obviously, when we're children, we’re subject to our environment. It's the one place where victim mentality or helplessness. We don't have full agency and control over our lives. We can't set up all of what we need. And so, did you have the support you needed to be dealing with whatever you were dealing with? What were those messages?
Donnie B.: The interesting thing about that time is, I went and seen a different counselor dude. Whatever the hell he was, psychologist. I don't know what he was. And we sat down and had an hour-long conversation. At the end of that conversation, he said, “I want to talk to your parents.”
I said, “Cool. Cool.”
I left the room, went out and sat on the bench. Mom and dad walked out and said, “All right, cool. Let's go.”
I asked them years later what that counselor said to them because that session fixed a lot of my shit.
Rachel K.: Hell, yeah.
Donnie B.: The reason it fixed it was he simply told Mom and Dad, “Let him go. Let him fucking explode. He's going to hit rock bottom so fucking hard that he's going to start climbing.”
He was right. It’s exactly what freaking happened. So it was an interesting moment because I had an understanding that what I was doing wasn't the right actions. But I had no reason to stop.
Rachel K.: Yeah.
Donnie B.: It was interesting.
Rachel K.: Yeah, no, rock bottom really, it's something to push up against.
Donnie B.: Yes. Oh, J.K. Rowling has the best quote of all times on it. “Rock bottom is a foundation I built my life.” And I freaking love it.
Rachel K.: There's a similar thing here in the sense of, if we're trying to stay above our feelings, our pain, our worthlessness, our shame, I mean, shame actually burns like hell. I mean, it's like, to really feel how worthless and wretched we can feel, it's actually excruciatingly uncomfortable.
So when we sink down, when we get the skills to do that where we actually can experience these parts of us, there's no stress, there's a sense of peace and this is who I am. And then things really start to open up and flow.
I have clients every week come in being like, “I was able to cry for half an hour.” And they're so proud of themselves or like, they had some tantrum and it shifts things where the thing that you were trying to not do becomes the thing that you can feel strong and own your strength for.
And I really think if we don't earn something, we can't own it. And so when there is that challenge of hitting rock bottom or learning how to overcome your resistance to your feelings and feel it and learning how to do all these hard things, that's where we actually feel good about ourselves and proud and that's what can't be taken from us. That's not the validation. That's like worth.
Donnie B.: Right. I just had this pop in my head. Because of my military background, I have a shit ton of veterans that listen to this show and the biggest struggle that veterans have is what they get once they get out of the military. It's not usually what they've gone through that destroys them. It's the lack of the buddy system. It's the lack of the camaraderie. It's the lack of those people around that takes them down to the wrong and dark paths.
So two seconds, if you can think about it off the top of your head, how does somebody work through that when you spent years with the same 30 guys day in, day out, shit, showered, shaved together, the whole nine yards and now, you're out on your own trying to figure out, what the fuck am I supposed to be doing with my life?
Rachel K.: Right. Well, it's a really good question and one of the things that I think it speaks to is another piece of the healing puzzle which is, we need to be connected to something bigger than ourselves. And I mean, I don't know. It's kind of surprising to me in this day of modern technology where we've got Facebook groups for fucking everything. I'm surprised that there aren't more ways that …
Donnie B.: There's groups for veterans. The problem is the bravado, right?
So if a guy goes in there and yeah, there's situations where if somebody's really south, the whole groups usually will come together and take care of him, right? But most times, man, if somebody shares what they're going through, it's not necessarily looked upon because you're supposed to be a badass at that point, right?
Rachel K.: That’s the thing. That’s why I feel so strongly about reducing the shame around pain. And that will help the veterans as well. I mean, one thing, this is not exactly what you asked about with community but one of the therapeutic tools I practice which is like the gold star standard which every veteran should know about and look into getting which should be covered through the vet insurance is EMDR.
It's , very effective, very quick tool to really process very acute trauma and then if you can't connect or if you can’t EMDR …
Donnie B.: I had a gal on the show that had a very traumatic childbirth and she has like the 50th smallest baby ever born in the world that survived and EMDR is what helped her get through it. I was trying to recall her name but …
Rachel K.: Yeah, it's cool. I mean, I actually think it should be malpractice to not know EMDR as a therapist. Also, just to offend everybody, I think that our therapeutic industry is B minus at best right now and part of my show is really being like, “Come on people, be willing to make people uncomfortable. Don't just try to keep them comfortable for their money.”
Donnie B.: But that's most of the practice is. To jump in your bandwagon, is it's a business for them. They're not trying to help people. If they can keep them longer, less people they got to go find to use their fucking service.
Rachel K.: I started firing my clients. I'm like, “This isn't working. You don't want to do it? You want to be a victim? No. I don't need your money.”
Donnie B.: I tell everybody from a coaching perspective, “Hey look, if you're going to work with a coach, if they don't tell you that you're going to grow beyond their ability to coach you, then go find a different coach because that coach that want to keep you forever is a fucking idiot. But doesn't know actually how to help somebody move forward in their life.”
Rachel K.: Yeah. So for those vets who are feeling alienated and alone and alone with their pain, I mean, to whatever extent they can start to get that, every single human, whether or not you've been in war or not or been in some of the extremes that they've been in or not has pain. And so there's nothing wrong with your pain and if they can start to turn toward it with a little more gentleness and curiosity and care, that's a really important word, care toward the part of them that's hurting.
It's like, sometimes, when we're hurting, we want to attack ourselves. Like, what's wrong with me? That means you're literally attacking yourself for being in pain which is like, you've been shot by an arrow and you shoot another arrow just because the first arrow is there. We're already in pain.
So that's part of what you can do. And then if the veteran community doesn't feel safe for those people as a means of sharing or connecting, it's really important to find what does and it doesn't always have to be humans. In fact, humans are often kind of out of balance. Sometimes, the natural world is often in balance.
If you have literally no one to talk to, go find the closest most comfortable spot to create a relationship with a tree. Go every day and talk to a tree about your pain. Find out what kinds of activities, what kinds of things do you enjoy doing. Whether it's like a craft or a hobby or building or knitting.
I don't know how many veterans are knitting. But what the fuck? It's 2019. Like some kind of …
Donnie B.: A lot of veterans can saw. I don't know about knit. But we can saw.
Rachel K.: Knitting for me is so soothing but anyway, it's like, how do we connect to something bigger than ourselves? But the first step of any of that, because to allow ourselves to be part of anything, we have to start working on being kinder toward ourselves, reducing the shame that we are how we are and just, even though we might not know for sure, just imagining, maybe other people have these feelings. That's why it's so healing when we share our stories and we start talking about the worthlessness we feel.
And one of the cool things that's been happening in my practice is, I have six of my own clients that I've interviewed. They chose to. I didn't twist their arm. But I interviewed them for the Shit Show. And so throughout the twelve episodes of the first season, their voices and their experience are woven into what I'm sharing.
So other clients of mine are able to hear. First of all, they're able to get what I'm saying in the form of like kind of course versus like intermixed with their own personal content. And so they're kind of lighting up around, “It makes so much sense.” And they're also hearing other people who are using very similar language because they're all in my healing world with me talk about things that they feel so deeply and there's something just so healing to be like, “Oh really? Everyone struggles with, are they enough? It's not just me?”
And it's just so healing to know, “No, dude. This is the human condition and we live in a sick world.” There isn't a lot of balance and health in our world. You don't have to be inherently healthy and well to be in leadership, you know what I mean? But we’re going to have money.
And it wasn't always like that. You and I both talked about cavemen in a different, older way. It's like, back in the day, if you’re hunting or you're living in direct connection with the Earth where there's not Uber Deliver and there's not like a grocery store where you buy something that you have fucking no idea where it came from, you had to be inherently well and balanced and strong in order to contribute to survive. And we don't have to do that now.
We turn on light switches and we don't even think about where it comes from or water and buy we consume. We just want things instantly and I'm guilty of this too. I'm not preaching like I'm not doing this. Who doesn't love Amazon Prime?
It's like, there's no inherent well-being in our society. And so of course, we're all sick with this and so the more we can just get real and be like, “Okay, how do I create this for myself? How do I do the best I can with what I've been given? How do I move all this shit through me with a flush? That's what's up.”
Donnie B.: Champions, I hope you guys are enjoying this and do me a favor guys, go listen to her shit and swamp her show for me because I think she's got a badass message. I think she's got a really cool way of doing it.
You've brought something to the surface that ranks of one of the most, sex you don't talk about, money you don't talk about and shit is something you don't talk about. It's the third one that I haven't heard thrown around and I'm so excited that you're taking this on.
So keep spreading your message and keep embracing the hell out of this.
Rachel K.: Thank you.
Donnie B.: So let's do this. How do people get in touch with you or find your show, all that fun shit?
Rachel K.: There's two ways and the easiest way, the way that’s going to streamline you into something where I'm going to give you a free little module of work and it also will just expose you right into the skill aspect of what I'm teaching, is go to www.yourcorewound.com. So yourcorewound.com all smashed together as they do and there is a quiz there and it'll take you less than five minutes and you're just going to rank numerically a bunch of statements and then I am going to see your quiz. I'm going to look at it and I'm going to enter it into a system where depending on what anger or what, excuse me, emotion you need to …
Donnie B.: She’s expecting me to take it, guys. So that's why.
Rachel K.: Depending on what emotion is dominant in your quiz, I'm going to send you a little kit that will give you the episode that correlates to that emotion and some of those aren't even live yet. I have no idea, Donnie when you're going to put this up. But it's actually like, you're getting ahead of what’s available currently on iTunes.
So you'll get that episode. You'll get a list of strategies to try and a video of me kind of in my apartment trying to bring all of that to life. So you'll get that for free and it'll just have you dive in and check it out for yourself.
And then also, I make it really affordable. If you want all of the emotions. The truth is, to really be well, we do need to be able to move through all the feelings. So there's a way where you can get that also.
And then the way to just hear the Shit Show is to go to, if it's on iTunes, wherever it is, it's www.healingfeelingshitshow.com.
Now, the ‘i’ in shit has turned into an asterisk because in the end, you know, I had to. iTunes won, basically. Facebook, you can’t sponsor any ads on here. And I was like, “Fuck you. Then I won't sponsor ads. I'm not changing my shit.”
Even with the asterisk, they don't care. But iTunes, if iTunes says no, I don't have a problem.
Donnie B.: They’re the 500-pound gorilla in the room. They shut my show down for six days because I had badass in a couple of the titles. So they’re … I’ll leave it to that. They suck when it comes to that kind of stuff. Get to the freaking times that we're in now. Hide my show behind another firewall that the kids can't see. I'm fine with that because the people who need to hear it will come find it.
Rachel K.: So just anywhere you find podcasts, it's there. And I do recommend you go in order. That's why it's cool that I'm giving you the streamlined approach to the skills because people are busy and they might not have time and I want you to be able to start.
Donnie B.: How long are your episodes?
Rachel K.: They're pretty long. A lot of them are right around 90 or an hour. A few of them are around 90 minutes. Actually, all of the specific emotion episodes have 30 minutes of me doing unscripted therapy with someone that I just met and also, if people want to get involved, I'd love you, in addition to sending me your gross hilarious poop story, if you want to be a guest on my show or if you want to do therapy with me that we put online …
Donnie B.: I’ll tuck it in. I'll do that. I'll do that.
Rachel K.: I know. I have that thought. That would be fun to do with you.
Donnie B.: Yeah. All day long.
Rachel K.: You can do that. And also, you can send in questions.
Donnie B.: Awesome. Awesome.
Rachel K.: Healing Feeling Shit Show and YourCoreWound.com.
Donnie B.: Beautiful. Beautiful. So guys, make sure you crash the system on that. I mean, she's doing some really cool things and taking on just in a really, really cool approach.
Well Miss Rachel, we're stacked up against it. But here is how I finish every freaking show and I stump some people on. So stand by.
Rachel K.: Oh, good.
Donnie B.: If you’re going to leave the champions who listen to this show, people from, I think at this point, we’re at 79 countries all over the world. I don't know what else countries would be but 79 countries.
Rachel K.: Or planets.
Donnie B.: Yeah, right? Probably at this point. But, that are all going through their journey, on their mission, on their path, wherever they're going. If you were going to leave them with a quote, a saying, a phrase, a mantra, something they can take with them on their journey especially if they're stacked up against it and stopped up, you're welcome for that. What would be that quote or phrase you would say, “Remember this,”?
Rachel K.: Yeah. There's so many that are coming to mind. But, “What is in the way is the way.” So what you think is holding you back, what you think makes you not enough, you need to embrace that, turn toward that, learn how to love that and it will open up the way for you into success, into self-love, into self-worth, which I think is the fucking bee's knees. Yeah.
And if you don’t feel your shit, you’re full of shit. Just as a side note. I know you didn't say I could have two but if you don't feel your shit, you’re full of it. So don't do it like that. You can do better.
Donnie B.: That's so awesome. Rachel, thank you so much for doing this, girl. I appreciate the hell out of it.
Rachel K.: Really fun.
Donnie B.: Awesome. Awesome.
Donnie B.: Holy cow, guys. That was some raw shit. I got to tell you, I love … I mean, I've even gone back and listened to that episode and love her energy and vibe. Rachel really brings it every time I talk to her and I really enjoy that.
Hey, you know, if you haven't come and join the Success Champions group on Facebook, you really need to dive in there. We’ve instituted this really, really cool thing that is just a blast and we're having a lot of fun with it.
So we're calling it The Champions Happy Hour and every Friday at 4:00 PM Central, I'm bringing in some of my past guests and friends of the show and just some other badasses and we're talking business, life, how to get out of your own damn way and it's all done through Facebook Live.
So there's no editing. There's no shortcuts or anything else. So come hang out with us in Success Champions. Go to Facebook, go type in the word, Success Champions, click on groups and you will find the page and then get ready for all kinds of fun content. And on Friday Live, bring your favorite cocktail and hang out with us as we just talked with some of the biggest badasses in the world about, how do you go for it? How do you get out of your own way? And how do you really go big and loud?
And then if you'll do me a favor guys, if you'll share this episode with one person, that would mean the world to me. Leave a review. Leave a comment and I love hearing from you guys.
If I can ever be of help, shoot me an email at Donnie@DonnieBoivin.com. Hope to see you in Success Champions on Facebook. Keep kicking ass, guys.
Go get that shit out, would you?