Digest

The podcast hosts Paul, Jason, and June delve into the unsettling 1985 Disney film "Return to Oz," a sequel to "The Wizard of Oz." They discuss its dark and often traumatic themes, contrasting it sharply with the original's joyful musicality. Key points include the disturbing character of Tik-Tok, the bleak visual style, Dorothy's passive role, and the film's confusing narrative. The hosts analyze specific unsettling moments like Jack the Pumpkin and the electroshock machine, debate whether Oz is a dream, and explore Walter Murch's directorial choices. They also compare Fairuza Balk's portrayal of Dorothy to Judy Garland's, discuss the film's potential as a standalone dark fantasy, and examine the divisive nature of its characters and settings. Despite its flaws and disconnect from the original, the film garners surprisingly positive fan reviews, with some considering it an underrated gem that requires viewers to set aside their expectations of the beloved "Wizard of Oz." The discussion also touches on the Gnome King's demise, the unsettling Wheelers, and the film's overall impact on childhood memories.

Outlines

00:00:00

Introduction and Initial Impressions of "Return to Oz"

The podcast begins with hosts Paul, Jason, and June expressing shock and trauma after watching the 1985 Disney sequel "Return to Oz," noting its lesser-known status and departure from the original "Wizard of Oz."

00:01:25

Analyzing "Return to Oz": Characters, Themes, and Visuals

The discussion focuses on the enigmatic Tik-Tok robot, its design, and transformation, contrasting it with other robots. The hosts explore Disney's mid-80s output, the film's distressing adaptation of L. Frank Baum's books, and its blend of "The Wizard of Oz" with "The Dark Crystal." They highlight Oz being presented as reality, Dorothy's institutionalization, the bleak visual style, and her lack of emotional connection to her home life.

00:06:55

Narrative Confusion and Disturbing Elements

The hosts find the narrative of "Return to Oz" confounding, with unclear character motivations, comparing it unfavorably to "Lord of the Rings." They discuss disturbing moments like Jack the Pumpkin and the electroshock machine, debate the dream aspect, and interpret the moral as keeping thoughts private. Walter Murch's direction and the film's faithful but joyless adaptation are also examined.

00:13:35

Craftsmanship, Book Adaptation, and Character Disconnect

Despite narrative flaws, the film's craft and visuals, like the "hallway of heads," are praised. The hosts discuss its inspiration from "Wisconsin Death Trip," the Gnome King's plot, and the disconnect created by adapting a different book. They question the Scarecrow's portrayal and find the characters unrecognizable and unlikable.

00:17:10

Fairuza Balk's Performance and Comparisons to the Original

Fairuza Balk's performance as Dorothy is lauded, though her portrayal feels older than her character's age. A comparison is drawn between her Dorothy and Judy Garland's, with "Return to Oz" seen as a disservice to the original's hopeful spirit. The film is compared to "Pan's Labyrinth" for its dark fantasy elements.

00:19:39

Production Challenges, Character Omissions, and Oz's Appeal

Production challenges for young actors, the omission of Toto, and the inclusion of a talking chicken are discussed. The hosts find the Oz characters to be the "B-team" and debate Tik-Tok's purpose. They lament the lack of emotional connection and relatable faces, speculating that character alterations were deliberate choices to differentiate from the movie versions.

00:24:55

The Unrecognizable Oz Saga and Psychological Themes

The film's departure from the original creates an unrecognizable Oz saga. Details about the Scarecrow's original demeanor and Gump's existential crisis are noted. The hosts observe deep psychic distress in nearly all characters, contrasting the film's bleakness with the post-Depression era context and the original's hopeful musicality.

00:26:41

A Bleak Narrative and Dorothy's Journey

"Return to Oz" is described as bleak and unhopeful, with an overwhelming desire to escape both Oz and Kansas. The lack of connection and relatable journey is disappointing compared to the original. Dorothy's journey in "Return to Oz" is seen as passive, a contrast to her active role in "The Wizard of Oz," and potentially a way to prove Oz's reality to herself.

00:30:05

Societal Pressures and Character Motivations

The harsh reality of 1930s child labor and societal pressures are discussed, explaining Dorothy's need to work on the farm to avoid the asylum. Annam's motivation and the mother's threat regarding Belina the chicken highlight Dorothy's limited support system. The hosts question Toto's inaction and consider "Return to Oz" as a standalone dark fantasy.

00:32:53

Embracing the Weirdness and Visual Appeal

Despite an aimless narrative, the hosts find parts of "Return to Oz" enjoyable once the connection to the original is set aside, appreciating its visual elements. They acknowledge the film's pure disturbance for some, while others find its darkness acceptable. The persistent feeling that it's "not their Oz" and the difficulty in divorcing it from the original are recurring themes.

00:34:10

Disappointment in Oz's Magic and Visuals

The absence of Oz's magical beauty and iconic characters like Glinda is a significant disappointment. Dorothy's unflattering dress and overly large hair bows are criticized, suggesting a grounded, faithful representation that sacrifices visual appeal. The ruby red slippers offer a welcome visual respite, and a gender-bending moment with the Gnome King is noted.

00:36:33

The Oz Movie Paradox and Marketing

The film's "Oz" elements paradoxically make it feel disconnected. Despite its dark themes, it was marketed as a children's movie, leading to audience disconnect. The shabby Oz setting is a major disappointment, reinforcing the sentiment of "#NotMyOz." A humorous tangent compares "Dr. Oz" to "Dr. Phil."

00:38:05

The Gnome King, Chickens, and Personal Catharsis

The Gnome King's aversion to chickens and his demise via an egg is a memorable plot point. The hosts speculate on the chicken's intent and physiological responses. Jason shares a personal anecdote about his egg allergy, finding catharsis in the Gnome King's fate and reflecting on how it altered his childhood perspective.

00:41:07

Life Lessons and the Cruelty of Oz

The hosts ponder the idea that everything happens for a reason, even negative experiences. Jason humorously states his life would have been dedicated to "murdering chickens" without his allergy. The Gnome King's cruel act of turning chickens into ornaments is described as torture, though one host admits to liking the room of ornaments.

00:42:24

Visual Environments and Unclear Motivations

The film's environments, like the stone cave and opulent city, are noted for their visual appeal. Despite liking certain aspects, the hosts struggle to understand the underlying purpose or "why" behind the movie's events. Themes of Earth's resources and the Wizard's power become muddled.

00:43:18

The Wizard's Power and Repetitive Structure

The film contradicts the lesson of the original Wizard by introducing an all-powerful Gnome King after suggesting the Wizard wasn't all-powerful. The hosts question the repetitive structure of "Return to Oz," which mirrors the original with three companions and a coronation, contrasting it with successful riffs like "The Wiz."

00:44:33

The Drabness of Oz and Audience Expectations

Generations accustomed to a singing, colorful Oz find the drab and joyless "Return to Oz" a jarring departure. The filmmakers' likely intention for faithfulness to the books sacrifices visual appeal. The film is described as a "bait and switch" for audiences expecting a continuation of the beloved original.

00:45:28

"Return to Oz" as Horror and Ambiguous Endings

The hosts suggest director Ari Aster could create a horror-centric Oz. "Return to Oz" is seen as a horror movie about electroshock therapy, with Oz as an imaginative escape. The ending is debated, with Oz potentially being a hallucination, and a "Jacob's Ladder" scenario is raised.

00:48:14

The Wheelers and Their Unsettling Nature

The decision to make the Scarecrow king is questioned. The Wheelers are praised as cool and unsettling, scarier than flying monkeys due to their chaotic energy and human-like chaos. Their appearance evokes body horror, with comparisons to David Cronenberg.

00:50:13

The Wheelers' Inherent Nature and Theories

Even after Oz is restored, the Wheelers remain Wheelers, suggesting their nature is inherent. A theory suggests they represent the people pushing Dorothy's gurney, linking them to her trauma. Their movement has a "Starlight Express" element.

00:51:18

"Return to Oz": A Divisive Film with a Dedicated Fanbase

"Return to Oz" elicits strong opinions, with many viewers having a deep affection for it. An astonishing 80% of reviews are five-star, with some calling it an underrated classic. The idea of creativity being equated with insanity is discussed.

00:56:06

Cut Scenes, Editor's Vision, and Reconciling with the Original

A cut scene of Dorothy and Toto playing is mentioned. The film's volume of cut scenes suggests it was an editor's movie. Enjoying "Return to Oz" requires putting aside the original, a difficult but potentially rewarding task. Practical effects and visuals are praised, but the story is deemed not good, though interesting.

00:57:57

The Disconnect from the Oz Saga and Target Audience

Despite being a sequel, the film doesn't feel like a continuation of the Oz saga. It's recommended for those interested in a two-hour horror for a child. The hosts doubt overlap between fans of "The Wizard of Oz" and "Return to Oz," suggesting book fans might appreciate it more.

00:58:54

Availability, Familiarity, and Visual Aesthetics

The film's availability on cable may have contributed to its popularity. While characters are familiar, the images are new to some. "Return to Oz" looks older than the original to some viewers. The hosts humorously declare they don't want fan opinions, reiterating that loving the film is a "red flag."

01:00:11

Final Thoughts, Promotions, and Call to Action

A humorous wish is expressed for reconciliation with an ex-girlfriend who loved the movie. Jason promotes "Percy Jackson" and his Broadway show, while Paul promotes his Taylor Swift documentary. Listeners are encouraged to rate and review the podcast.

Keywords

Q&A

• What is "Return to Oz" and how does it differ from "The Wizard of Oz"?

  "Return to Oz" is a 1985 Disney sequel to "The Wizard of Oz" that is significantly darker, more disturbing, and lacks the musical numbers and joyful tone of the original. It presents Oz as a decaying land and Dorothy's journey with a much bleaker perspective.

• Who directed "Return to Oz"?

  "Return to Oz" was directed by Walter Murch, a legendary film editor known for his work on films like "Apocalypse Now" and "The Godfather."

• What are some of the most disturbing elements in "Return to Oz"?

  Disturbing elements include the Tik-Tok robot's design, Dorothy's institutionalization and electroshock therapy, the disembodied heads in the hallway, Jack the Pumpkin, and the unsettling Wheelers.

• Is "Return to Oz" considered a children's movie?

  Despite being marketed as a children's movie, its dark themes and disturbing imagery make it unsuitable for many young viewers, leading to a disconnect between expectations and content.

• How is Fairuza Balk's performance as Dorothy perceived?

  Fairuza Balk's performance is lauded, especially considering she often acted against inanimate objects. However, her portrayal of Dorothy is perceived as older and less buoyant than Judy Garland's iconic version.

• Why is "Return to Oz" often compared to "Pan's Labyrinth"?

  Both films are dark fantasy movies that blend fantastical elements with unsettling and sometimes horrific imagery, appealing to audiences who appreciate a more mature and darker take on fairy tales.

• What is the significance of the Wheelers in "Return to Oz"?

  The Wheelers are a group of terrifying characters with dismembered bodies and roller skates for wheels. They are praised for their unsettling design and chaotic energy, contributing significantly to the film's horror elements.

• Does "Return to Oz" adapt the original "Wizard of Oz" story?

  No, "Return to Oz" adapts elements from L. Frank Baum's second and third Oz books, "The Marvelous Land of Oz" and "Ozma of Oz," which differ significantly from "The Wonderful Wizard of Oz."

• Why do some viewers find "Return to Oz" to be an underrated film?

  Despite its flaws and departure from the original, some viewers appreciate its unique visual style, dark themes, and bold storytelling, considering it an underrated gem that offers a different, more mature perspective on the Oz universe.

• What is the main takeaway message or moral of "Return to Oz"?

  One interpretation of the moral is the importance of keeping one's dreams, imagination, and thoughts private, especially in an era or environment that might not be understanding or supportive.

Show Notes